Digital BW, The Print

Re: Jon Cone's new B/W system FYI

From: "flyfishingusa2002

Let's clear a few things up. First of all, Cone's new system is based on
Piezotone inks which have a great reputation for NOT clogging. Second, the
reasons for Canon are speed and the fact that a second head with color inks
can be swapped out anytime. This means that you do not need a dedicated b&w
printer. Think about it! Third, the removable head means that you can simply
rinse it under running water to clean out any paper dust or ink residue.
Fourth, printing through ICC profiles means no expensive RIP. And yes, there
will be versions of the profiles and inks for Epson printers too, though
they won't have the same advantage re: swapping heads. As to the Canon
switch, I have an Epson 7500, 3000, 1160, 1270 and a 1200 but I might take
another look at the Canons for the reasons mentioned.

While I've been critical of Jon's past claims (read my posts) I have met
with Jon about this system and everything he says about it makes sense.
Let's give the guy a break and wait see. Sounds like this addresses all the
old problems to me...

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Rick Colson [mailto:colson@...] 
> Verzonden: zaterdag 1 maart 2003 18:55
> Aan: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Digital BW] Digest Number 1356
> 
> 
> Re: Jon Cone's new B/W system FYI
> From: "flyfishingusa2002
> 
> Let's clear a few things up. First of all, Cone's new system 
> is based on Piezotone inks which have a great reputation for 
> NOT clogging. 

Although I sympathize with the new idea (I've got a Canon printer..] and
second your post, this specific issue is not as simple as you state,
AFAIK. The new inks are completely new, and all pigment based, whereas
the old inks were only partly pigment based (as far as I make up from
the article, I have no experience with the inks). And pigment based inks
are more prone to clogging, as I understood from other mails, but maybe
I'm wrong in this respect.

Best,
Ton Guiking

Re: Jon Cone's new B/W system FYI

From: "flyfishingusa2002

Let's clear a few things up. First of all, Cone's new system is based on
Piezotone inks which have a great reputation for NOT clogging. Second, the
reasons for Canon are speed and the fact that a second head with color inks
can be swapped out anytime. This means that you do not need a dedicated b&w
printer. Think about it! Third, the removable head means that you can simply
rinse it under running water to clean out any paper dust or ink residue.
Fourth, printing through ICC profiles means no expensive RIP. And yes, there
will be versions of the profiles and inks for Epson printers too, though
they won't have the same advantage re: swapping heads. As to the Canon
switch, I have an Epson 7500, 3000, 1160, 1270 and a 1200 but I might take
another look at the Canons for the reasons mentioned.

While I've been critical of Jon's past claims (read my posts) I have met
with Jon about this system and everything he says about it makes sense.
Let's give the guy a break and wait see. Sounds like this addresses all the
old problems to me...

> > Let's clear a few things up. First of all, Cone's new system 
> > is based on Piezotone inks which have a great reputation for 
> > NOT clogging. 
> 
> Although I sympathize with the new idea (I've got a Canon printer..] and
> second your post, this specific issue is not as simple as you state,
> AFAIK. The new inks are completely new, and all pigment based, whereas
> the old inks were only partly pigment based (as far as I make up from
> the article, I have no experience with the inks). And pigment based inks
> are more prone to clogging, as I understood from other mails, but maybe
> I'm wrong in this respect.
> 
> Best,
> Ton Guiking

I think the pdf press release is a little confusing because in some 
parts he is talking about the new canon inks and in others he is 
talking about the "new" piezotones which are not new.  What you are 
referring to is the talk about the new piezotones, not the canon 
version.  The old sundance inks had some dye, the new piezotones don't 
(except for some of the blacks).  My suspicion is that the new CANON 
piezotones actually do have some dye. If you read the article carefully 
you will note that he never mentions specifically, he just says they 
are the first "pigmented" inkset set for Canon printers. I think if 
they were ALL pigment that he would have been more clear about it.

I also find that it interesting that they are coming out with a color 
pigmented inkset for the canon; which I cannot help but think back to 
the color piezo days and wonder if they can actually pull that off and 
compete with Generations etc...

-mh

>>I think the pdf press release is a little confusing<<

"Cone-speak" is more like it.

>> If you read the article carefully you will note that he never mentions
specifically, he just says they are the first "pigmented" inkset set for
Canon printers. I think if  they were ALL pigment that he would have been
more clear about it.<<

I have been reading the press release too and have had a hard time
deciphering if the inks are totally new or not, BUT here is a quote from the
release:

"...request of the more than 4,000 users of the original PiezographyBW
system. The new PiezoTone
monochromatic ink set for Canon has been designed for compatibility with
high gloss inkjet paper, a first for an all-pigment monochromatic ink
system."

> I have been reading the press release too and have had a hard time
> deciphering if the inks are totally new or not, BUT here is a quote from the
> release:
> 
> "...request of the more than 4,000 users of the original PiezographyBW
> system. The new PiezoTone
> monochromatic ink set for Canon has been designed for compatibility with
> high gloss inkjet paper, a first for an all-pigment monochromatic ink
> system."

hmm, I did not catch that part. Maybe it could be all-pigment then.
I still worry about whatever it is that helps it absorb into the glossy 
paper or whatever it does to keep the glossiness.

I think the canon inks are totally new (based somewhat on the old 
ones). The epson ones will not be new until the 2200,7600... system 
comes out with the ability to change the hue.

Rick, are CIS systems made for the canons? How about the quality of 
prints compared to Epson?

And how about ink costs, if a CIS isn't available?


Jerry

Rick Colson wrote:

> Re: Jon Cone's new B/W system FYI

> 
> Let's clear a few things up. First of all, Cone's new system is based on
> Piezotone inks which have a great reputation for NOT clogging. Second, the
> reasons for Canon are speed and the fact that a second head with color inks
> can be swapped out anytime. This means that you do not need a dedicated b&w
> printer. Think about it! Third, the removable head means that you can simply
> rinse it under running water to clean out any paper dust or ink residue.
> Fourth, printing through ICC profiles means no expensive RIP. And yes, there
> will be versions of the profiles and inks for Epson printers too, though
> they won't have the same advantage re: swapping heads. As to the Canon
> switch, I have an Epson 7500, 3000, 1160, 1270 and a 1200 but I might take
> another look at the Canons for the reasons mentioned.
>