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eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by bakerstrt@...

I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in the printer? I will be making my own profiles so maybe the order doesn't matter? Can anyone confirm this?



Thanks

Michael V

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by Paul Roark

I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni -1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf (or something close - Google it). What I found is that with the printers like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility by arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The PDF explains it. That compatibility is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not use QTR.

Paul

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Nov 9, 2016 8:47 PM, "bakerstrt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in the printer? I will be making my own profiles so maybe the order doesn't matter? Can anyone confirm this?



Thanks

Michael V

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by m venz

Thanks Paul, I found it.


http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6-1800.pdf

www.paulroark.com
100% Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800 Paul Roark 9-17-08 Pure, 100% carbon pigment printing has become a more powerful and flexible system



Michael



From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@gmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2016 18:43
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni -1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf (or something close - Google it). What I found is that with the printers like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility by arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The PDF explains it. That compatibility is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not use QTR.

Paul


On Nov 9, 2016 8:47 PM, "bakerstrt@hotmail.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in the printer? I will be making my own profiles so maybe the order doesn't matter? Can anyone confirm this?



Thanks

Michael V

Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by richard@...

I posted about my new profiling tools last week on the QTR group, but I have not posted this here yet. If you are making your own profiles with dedicated black and white systems, and have something like an i1 Pro or SpyderPrint, you might want to check this out: QuadToneProfiler
QuadToneProfiler
QuadTone Profiler AN EASY TO USE SYSTEM TO QUICKLY MAKE QUADTONERIP PROFILES WITH UP TO SIX DILUTIONS OF BLACK INK
View on www.bwmastery.com
Preview by Yahoo


I am working on a new version that will allow profiles to be made with up to 8 partitions in the 10 ink printers.


There are two versions. The standard one will simply speedup/automate the profile creation process without needing to enter a single thing in the QTRgui—the qidf profiles are generated for you and double clicking them on Windows will install the quad curves without the Windows 10 show curves bug.


The deluxe version has tools for reshaping the QTR-generated quad curves to make longer smooth leading and trailing edges without introducing unwanted or inconsistent ink load. It also has some advanced quad linearization tools that allow you to specify a set of target input and output points and see the quad curves change in real time.


It works with on both macOS and Windows, but with Excel only (because of the nature of the macros and user defined functions) and really cuts down on the time and paper used in generating these kinds of profiles.


Hope that helps,

Richard Boutwell


http://www.richardboutwell.com/

http://www.bwmastery.com/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by m venz

Thanks Richard.


I purchased this the other day (deluxe version) and have just begun reading the instructions with a yiew to working through it over the next couple of days.


Cheers


Michael




Re: [Digital BW] Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-10 by richard@...

Ah, I'm sorry, I didn't see/recognize your last name in the post. I hope it works well for you. I am putting out an update and making a site with its own user forum so I don't have to clog these sites with my stuff.

Richard Boutwell


Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by jerry dungan

Michael,
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 11/10/16, m venz bakerstrt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:04 AM
 
 
       
 
 
 
 Thanks Paul, I found it.
 
 
 
 http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6-1800.pdf
 
 
 
 
 
 
 100%
 Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800
 
 www.paulroark.com
 
 100% Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800 Paul
 Roark 9-17-08 Pure, 100% carbon pigment printing has become
 a more powerful and flexible system
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Michael,

Does the ink sequence for the R1800 with Eboni 6-VTfrom the information at that link turn out to be:

Toner
6% MK
9% MK
MK
MK
18%MK
30%MK
MK


The linked page seems to state that's the set up because the 3 100%MK positions are locked in, so just checking on where to place each of the Eboni inks.

Jerry


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From:
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> on
 behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@...
  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
 Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2016 18:43
 
 To: DigitalB&WPrint
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni
 -1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual
 
 paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf  (or something
 close - Google it). What I found is that with the printers
 like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility by
 arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The PDF
 explains it. That compatibility
  is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not use
 QTR.
 Paul 
 
 
 On Nov 9, 2016 8:47
 PM, "bakerstrt@hotmail.com
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] " <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
 yahoogroups.com>
  wrote:
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and
 was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in the
 printer?  I will be making my own profiles so maybe the
 order doesn't matter?  Can anyone confirm
 this?
 
 
 
 
 
 Thanks
 Michael V
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv8393379376 #yiv8393379376 --

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by jerry dungan

Michael,

Seems I lost my earlier query somewhere ?

The question was about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the link you provided. That very informative report says to sequence the Eboni 6 from lightest to darkest and the MK goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that turn out to mean the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:

Toner
6% MK
9% MK
18% MK
MK
MK
30% MK
MK

Thanks for the patience with this.

Jerry

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11/12/16, jerry dungan jerry_4y@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, November 12, 2016, 6:03 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       Michael,
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Thu, 11/10/16, m venz bakerstrt@...
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
 
  To:
 "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
  Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:04 AM
 
  
 
  
 
        
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Thanks Paul, I found it.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6-1800.pdf
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  100%
 
  Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800
 
  
 
  www.paulroark.com
 
  
 
  100% Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800
 Paul
 
  Roark 9-17-08 Pure, 100% carbon pigment printing has
 become
 
  a more powerful and flexible system
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 Michael,
 
 
 
 Does the ink sequence for the R1800 with Eboni 6-VTfrom the
 information at that link turn out to be:
 
 
 
 Toner
 
 6% MK
 
 9% MK
 
 MK
 
 MK
 
 18%MK
 
 30%MK
 
 MK
 
 
 
 The linked page seems to state that's the set up because
 the 3 100%MK positions are locked in, so just checking on
 where to place each of the Eboni inks.
 
 
 
 Jerry
 
 
 
 From:
 
  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 
  <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> on
 
  behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@...
 
   [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 
  <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
  
 
  Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2016 18:43
 
  
 
  To: DigitalB&WPrint
 
  
 
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 
  positions
 
   
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni
 
  -1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual
 
  
 
  paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf  (or something
 
  close - Google it). What I found is that with the
 printers
 
  like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility
 by
 
  arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The
 PDF
 
  explains it. That compatibility
 
   is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not
 use
 
  QTR.
 
  Paul 
 
  
 
  
 
  On Nov 9, 2016 8:47
 
  PM, "bakerstrt@...
 
  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] "
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
 
  yahoogroups.com>
 
   wrote:
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and
 
  was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in
 the
 
  printer?  I will be making my own profiles so maybe the
 
  order doesn't matter?  Can anyone confirm
 
  this?
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Thanks
 
  Michael V
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
      
 
       
 
  
 
      
 
      
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  #yiv8393379376 #yiv8393379376 --

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by Paul Roark

I note that the ink order below includes a toner. I think my initial comment to the OP was about ink order related to Eboni-6, which I read as not including a toner. I am not sure my "follow the color wheel" approach to make Eboni-6 on this class of printer (which I believe to be in the same general family as the old R1800) Epson driver compatible will work if there is a toner in the inkset. I probably posted some profiles for Eb6 in the R1800 that assumed 2% MK in Y. Those profiles will cause the highlights to be way too cool if Y has a light blue toner in it.

With the standard hextone printers, the blue Photoshop curve can easily control yellow position ink. Thus my recent variable tone inksets usually work very well with that toner position. And if I had an R2000, I'd still start with the color wheel positioning. It may take some experimenting to see how the setup works with the toner, however. The Epson drivers for these printers that include more than the standard CMY colors don't fit the Photoshop curves model as directly as the hextone printers.

QTR control is almost always the easier way to go.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Jerry wrote:

>The question was about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the link you
> provided. That very informative report says to sequence the Eboni 6 from lightest to
>darkest and the MK goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that turn out to
> mean the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:

>Toner
>6% MK
>9% MK
>18% MK
>MK
>MK
>30% MK
>MK

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by m venz

Hi Jerry,


I am not using the VT version (just the plain one). The instructions said to order inks according to the colour wheel if you want to use the Epson driver. I will be using QTR and making my own curve/profile so it appears not to matter.


Michael



Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of jerry dungan jerry_4y@yahoo.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
Sent: Sunday, 13 November 2016 15:03
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

Michael,
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 11/10/16, m venz bakerstrt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:

Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:04 AM






Thanks Paul, I found it.



http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6-1800.pdf






100%
Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800

www.paulroark.com

100% Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800 Paul
Roark 9-17-08 Pure, 100% carbon pigment printing has become
a more powerful and flexible system









Michael,

Does the ink sequence for the R1800 with Eboni 6-VTfrom the information at that link turn out to be:

Toner
6% MK
9% MK
MK
MK
18%MK
30%MK
MK

The linked page seems to state that's the set up because the 3 100%MK positions are locked in, so just checking on where to place each of the Eboni inks.

Jerry

From:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
on
behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@...
[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]


Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2016 18:43

To: DigitalB&WPrint

Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
positions







I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni
-1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual

paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf (or something
close - Google it). What I found is that with the printers
like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility by
arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The PDF
explains it. That compatibility
is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not use
QTR.
Paul


On Nov 9, 2016 8:47
PM, "bakerstrt@...
[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] " yahoogroups.com>
wrote:








I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and
was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in the
printer? I will be making my own profiles so maybe the
order doesn't matter? Can anyone confirm
this?





Thanks
Michael V



























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Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by jerry dungan

Paul,
 
Thanks as always for your time on an answer for a well running but older system. I'll set the R1800 up the following way, putting in the original idea of the 2% instead of a toner at Y, and see how it goes:

2% 
6%
9%
MK
MK
18%
30%
MK

And definitely Yes, QTR is the easier way to go.

Jerry

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 8:04 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       I note that the ink order
 below includes a toner.  I think my initial comment to the
 OP was about ink order related to Eboni-6, which I read as
 not including a toner.  I am not sure my "follow the
 color wheel" approach to make Eboni-6 on this class of
 printer (which I believe to be in the same general family as
 the old R1800) Epson driver compatible will work if there is
 a toner in the inkset.  I probably posted some profiles for
 Eb6 in the R1800 that assumed 2% MK in Y.  Those profiles
 will cause the highlights to be way too cool if Y has a
 light blue toner in it.  
 With the standard hextone
 printers, the blue Photoshop curve can easily control yellow
 position ink.  Thus my recent variable tone inksets usually
 work very well with that toner position.  And if I had an
 R2000, I'd still start with the color wheel
 positioning.  It may take some experimenting to see how the
 setup works with the toner, however.  The Epson drivers for
 these printers that include more than the standard CMY
 colors don't fit the Photoshop curves model as directly
 as the hextone printers.
 QTR control is almost
 always the easier way to go.
 Paulwww.PaulRoark.com 
 Jerry wrote:
 >The question was
 about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the link
 you>
  provided. That very informative report says to sequence
 the Eboni 6 from lightest to >darkest and the MK
 goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that turn out
 to > mean
 the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:
 >Toner>6% MK>9% MK>18% MK>MK>MK>30% MK>MK
 
 
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv3374244924 #yiv3374244924 --

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-13 by jerry dungan

Hi Michael,

Yes, dropping the toner and staying with the original concept of the Eboni 6 and the color wheel will be how I set my printer up. I'll also work up a QTR profile for the EB6. That and using the the available 3 MK profiles as the 2nd profile at the QTR print stage will be something to look forward to.  It'll be 2% 6% 9% MK MK 18% 30% MK as in the paper by Paul.

Thanks for your reply

Jerry

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/13/16, m venz bakerstrt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 11:06 AM
 
 
       
       
 
 
 
 Hi Jerry,
 
 
 
 I am not using the VT version (just the plain one).  The
 instructions said to order inks according to the colour
 wheel if you want to use the Epson driver.  I will be using
 QTR and making my own curve/profile so it appears not to
 matter.
 
 
 
 Michael
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From:
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> on
 behalf of jerry dungan jerry_4y@...
  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
 Sent: Sunday, 13 November 2016 15:03
 
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
  
 
  
 
 
 
 Michael,
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Thu, 11/10/16, m venz bakerstrt@...
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
 
 To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com"
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
 Date: Thursday, November 10, 2016, 12:04 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Thanks Paul, I found it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6-1800.pdf
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 100%
 
 Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800
 
 
 
 www.paulroark.com
 
 
 
 100% Eboni Carbon Pigment Printing For the Epson R1800
 Paul
 
 Roark 9-17-08 Pure, 100% carbon pigment printing has
 become
 
 a more powerful and flexible system
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Michael,
 
 
 
 Does the ink sequence for the R1800 with Eboni 6-VTfrom the
 information at that link turn out to be:
 
 
 
 Toner
 
 6% MK
 
 9% MK
 
 MK
 
 MK
 
 18%MK
 
 30%MK
 
 MK
 
 
 
 The linked page seems to state that's the set up because
 the 3 100%MK positions are locked in, so just checking on
 where to place each of the Eboni inks.
 
 
 
 Jerry
 
 
 
 From:
 
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> on
 
 behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@...
 
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 
 
 
 Sent: Thursday, 10 November 2016 18:43
 
 
 
 To: DigitalB&WPrint
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 
 positions
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I am not at home, but take a look at the Eboni
 
 -1800.pdf. The URL will be my usual
 
 
 
 paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni -1800.pdf  (or something
 
 close - Google it). What I found is that with the
 printers
 
 like the R1800, you can have Epson drive compatibility by
 
 arranging the ink order following the color wheel. The
 PDF
 
 explains it. That compatibility
 
 is useful for ICCs and applications where you can not use
 
 QTR.
 
 Paul 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Nov 9, 2016 8:47
 
 PM, "bakerstrt@...
 
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] "
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
 
 yahoogroups.com>
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I want to install eboni 6 ink in an Epson r2000 and
 
 was wondering which eboni ink goes in which position in
 the
 
 printer?  I will be making my own profiles so maybe the
 
 order doesn't matter?  Can anyone confirm
 
 this?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Thanks
 
 Michael V
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 #yiv8393379376 #yiv8393379376 --

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-14 by Paul Roark



On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at 11:12 AM, jerry dungan
​...
wrote:

​>I'll set the R1800 up the following way, putting in the original idea
>of the 2% instead of a toner at Y, and see how it goes:

​>​
2%
​>​
6%
​>​
9%
​>​
MK
​>​
MK
​>​
18%
​>​
30%
​>​
MK

​It'll be warm. My going to a toner, in part, reflected the fact that I was not happy with the way Eboni v.1.1 printed on inkjet paper. Arches is still able to make a 100% carbon print that is within what I believe people see as "neutral."​ Most coated inkjet paper is no longer there; thus the toner.

>And definitely Yes, QTR is the easier way to go.​

If you are proficient in QTR, then you can put inks in almost any position. You'll also be able to put the toner in one of the spots that has MK in it.

I was not a huge fan of the 3MK approach. It was something that many liked because it allowed them to have color printing with matte paper as well as 100% carbon printing that was almost dead neutral. MK, not diluted, is still very neutral. The 3 positions were needed to hide microbanding.

What I'd probably end up doing with such a printer now is have only 2 MK positions -- needed for best Arches printing as well as useful for making dilute Eb6 100% carbon prints more neutral by having one of the MK inks be a "Black Only" type ink, but used more as a "toner" to pull the warmer dilute ink image toward neutral. Note that while 2 MKs were needed to hide microbanding when MK was the only ink, where the full Eb6 inks are also in the mix, a single MK is going to be a smoother way to pull the 100% carbon image toward neutral than using the full 3MK profiles in conjunction with an Eb6 profile. As such, I'd put the toner where the third MK would be. I'd use only QTR to print.

This is all easy to do piecemeal. An Eb6 plus 3MK setup allows you to see how each approach works. If you want more neutrality, the toner can be easily added later.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com




Paul,

Thanks as always for your time on an answer for a well running but older system. I'll set the R1800 up the following way, putting in the original idea of the 2% instead of a toner at Y, and see how it goes:

2%
6%
9%
MK
MK
18%
30%
MK

And definitely Yes, QTR is the easier way to go.

Jerry

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 8:04 AM














I note that the ink order
below includes a toner. I think my initial comment to the
OP was about ink order related to Eboni-6, which I read as
not including a toner. I am not sure my "follow the
color wheel" approach to make Eboni-6 on this class of
printer (which I believe to be in the same general family as
the old R1800) Epson driver compatible will work if there is
a toner in the inkset. I probably posted some profiles for
Eb6 in the R1800 that assumed 2% MK in Y. Those profiles
will cause the highlights to be way too cool if Y has a
light blue toner in it.
With the standard hextone
printers, the blue Photoshop curve can easily control yellow
position ink. Thus my recent variable tone inksets usually
work very well with that toner position. And if I had an
R2000, I'd still start with the color wheel
positioning. It may take some experimenting to see how the
setup works with the toner, however. The Epson drivers for
these printers that include more than the standard CMY
colors don't fit the Photoshop curves model as directly
as the hextone printers.
QTR control is almost
always the easier way to go.
Paulwww.PaulRoark.com
Jerry wrote:
>The question was
about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the link
you>
provided. That very informative report says to sequence
the Eboni 6 from lightest to >darkest and the MK
goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that turn out
to > mean
the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:
>Toner>6% MK>9% MK>18% MK>MK>MK>30% MK>MK











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Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-15 by jerry dungan

This is a very insightful reply and really nicely spells out the pitfalls of where I was headed with the Eboni 6 VT + 3MK. As I want to produce neutral prints as the first objective, the warning about the probable too warm output comes at just the right time as I haven't committed to the first set up runs. I'll now set up with the standard Eb6, with the 2 MK's and the toner substituting for the 3rd MK. As for the microbanding with the 1.5pl droplet, I ran across that unpleasant output on some negatives that where banding making them useless.There was some remedy from a technique suggested by Roy Harrington in 2005 to print at 2880dpi and adjust the Ink Limit Adjust to ~ -30. I dropped the boost K and upped the ink values a tad and all that seemed to help as the microbanding disappeared.  But I never went on and printed out a variety of images to see how those were affected by the technique. 

So for this initial set up, it'll be EB6 + MK + Toner and see how it turns out. Lastly, is the toner the Canon Lucia referenced in your EB6 + R1800 paper or is there a compatible alternate blue toner ink that will work as well?  

So thanks as always for the insight and encouragement.

Jerry
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 7:03 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       
 
 On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
 11:12 AM, jerry dungan ​... wrote:
 ​>I'll set the R1800 up
 the following way, putting in the original idea >of the 2% instead of a toner at
 Y, and see how it goes:
 ​>​2% 
 ​>​6%
 ​>​9%
 ​>​MK
 ​>​MK
 ​>​18%
 ​>​30%
 ​>​MK
 ​It'll be warm.  My going to
 a toner, in part, reflected the fact that I was not happy
 with the way Eboni v.1.1 printed on inkjet paper.  Arches
 is still able to make a 100% carbon print that is within
 what I believe people see as "neutral."​  Most
 coated inkjet paper is no longer there; thus the
 toner.
 >And definitely Yes, QTR is the
 easier way to go.​
 
 If you are proficient in QTR, then
 you can put inks in almost any position.  You'll also
 be able to put  the toner in one of the spots that has MK
 in it.
 I was not a huge fan of the 3MK
 approach.  It was something that many liked because it
 allowed them to have color printing with matte paper as well
 as 100% carbon printing that was almost dead neutral.  MK,
 not diluted, is still very neutral.  The 3 positions were
 needed to hide microbanding.  
 What I'd probably end up doing
 with such a printer now is have only 2 MK positions --
 needed for best Arches printing as well as useful for making
 dilute Eb6 100% carbon prints more neutral by having one of
 the MK inks be a "Black Only" type ink, but used
 more as a "toner" to pull the warmer dilute ink
 image toward neutral.  Note that while 2 MKs were needed to
 hide microbanding when MK was the only ink, where the full
 Eb6 inks are also in the mix, a single MK is going to be a
 smoother way to pull the 100% carbon image toward neutral
 than using the full 3MK profiles in conjunction with an Eb6
 profile.  As such, I'd put the toner where the third MK
 would be.  I'd use only QTR to print.  
 This is all easy to do piecemeal. 
 An Eb6 plus 3MK setup allows you to see how each approach
 works.  If you want more neutrality, the toner can be
 easily added later.
 Paulwww.PaulRoark.com 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       Paul,
 
  
 
 Thanks as always for your time on an answer for a well
 running but older system. I'll set the R1800 up the
 following way, putting in the original idea of the 2%
 instead of a toner at Y, and see how it goes:
 
 
 
 2% 
 
 6%
 
 9%
 
 MK
 
 MK
 
 18%
 
 30%
 
 MK
 
 
 
 And definitely Yes, QTR is the easier way to go.
 
 
 
 Jerry
 
 
 
 ------------------------------ --------------
 
 On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@...
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
 yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
 
  To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
 yahoogroups.com>
 
  Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 8:04 AM
 
  
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
    
 
  
 
  
 
      
 
        
 
        
 
        I note that the ink order
 
  below includes a toner.  I think my initial comment to
 the
 
  OP was about ink order related to Eboni-6, which I read
 as
 
  not including a toner.  I am not sure my "follow
 the
 
  color wheel" approach to make Eboni-6 on this class
 of
 
  printer (which I believe to be in the same general family
 as
 
  the old R1800) Epson driver compatible will work if there
 is
 
  a toner in the inkset.  I probably posted some profiles
 for
 
  Eb6 in the R1800 that assumed 2% MK in Y.  Those
 profiles
 
  will cause the highlights to be way too cool if Y has a
 
  light blue toner in it.  
 
  With the standard hextone
 
  printers, the blue Photoshop curve can easily control
 yellow
 
  position ink.  Thus my recent variable tone inksets
 usually
 
  work very well with that toner position.  And if I had
 an
 
  R2000, I'd still start with the color wheel
 
  positioning.  It may take some experimenting to see how
 the
 
  setup works with the toner, however.  The Epson drivers
 for
 
  these printers that include more than the standard CMY
 
  colors don't fit the Photoshop curves model as
 directly
 
  as the hextone printers.
 
  QTR control is almost
 
  always the easier way to go.
 
  Paulwww.PaulRoark.com 
 
  Jerry wrote:
 
  >The question was
 
  about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the link
 
  you>
 
   provided. That very informative report says to
 sequence
 
  the Eboni 6 from lightest to >darkest and the MK
 
  goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that turn
 out
 
  to > mean
 
  the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:
 
  >Toner>6% MK>9% MK>18% MK>MK>MK>30%
 MK>MK
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
      
 
       
 
  
 
      
 
      
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  #yiv3374244924 #yiv3374244924 --

Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-11-15 by Paul Roark

As to the light blue toner, I use the Canon Lucia formula described in several PDFs, such as http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf at page 3. Note that there are several variations. Initially, when I was just toning Eboni for matte printing, I used 10% Canon color pigment to 90% generic base. I increased the color pigments to 25% in later PDFs (75% clear base) so that it would be strong enough to neutralize carbon on glossy paper, including in the deep shadows. Particularly in a 1.5 pl printer, there is really no reason to use the 90% clear base version. Also note that for glossy work the dilution base can be MIS "amber base." This reduces bronzing. There is no reason to use the amber base if you're using an Eboni based carbon inkset, however.

Note also that MIS now sells a light blue toner that uses its pigments instead of Canon pigments. (See the bottom of https://www.inksupply.com/roarkslab.cfm.) I have tested it with profiles written for the Canon based toner, and they appear to print identically. The MIS toner's advantage is that it is pre-mixed and the initial investment is less. (I have not done the calculations to see which is cheaper if you mix your own generic base.) While I have not fade tested the toners against each other, my assumption based on what I do know is that the Canon toner will result in a more stable print tone over the very long haul. For most printing, most viewers will never see the difference.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-12-13 by richard@...

Something you might want to consider, especially since the R2000 is an 8-ink printer, is using a K5 set and put in LcLmY inks. You could swap out MK and PK and use a protective spray in place of a gloss optimizer—UV protection and anti-bronzing in one shot... That way you'll get far more toning options and all the benefit of quad(+) printing than using a single blue toner—everything from super warm sepia from mixing various ratios of Lm and Y to super cold with mixing Lc and Lm. I just set up a 3880 using Piezography WN shades 1,2,4,5,6 plus the Epson LcLmY. I've only profiled a few Canson papers, but I am pretty excited with a few of the test prints I made over the past few days. Once I get the kinks worked out on the small printer I am going to take it up to K6+LcLmY on the a 9900 to provide more options for printing commercially.

If you are dead set on Eboni inks, you could probably use those instead—they are just not the inks I prefer.

Hope that helps,
Richard Boutwell

http://www.richardboutwell.com/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-12-13 by Paul Roark

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-5K-Plus-cmy.pdf

There is a trade off between flexibility and simplicity. After exploring the full range, I found that the single blended toner struck the balance I was looking for. I, also, found very few B&W photographers had the patience to deal with more. Profiling becomes tedious as the variables multiply.

There is a lot to be said for simplicity.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:23 PM, richard@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m> wrote:

Something you might want to consider, especially since the R2000 is an 8-ink printer, is using a K5 set and put in LcLmY inks. You could swap out MK and PK and use a protective spray in place of a gloss optimizer—UV protection and anti-bronzing in one shot... That way you'll get far more toning options and all the benefit of quad(+) printing than using a single blue toner—everything from super warm sepia from mixing various ratios of Lm and Y to super cold with mixing Lc and Lm. I just set up a 3880 using Piezography WN shades 1,2,4,5,6 plus the Epson LcLmY. I've only profiled a few Canson papers, but I am pretty excited with a few of the test prints I made over the past few days. Once I get the kinks worked out on the small printer I am going to take it up to K6+LcLmY on the a 9900 to provide more options for printing commercially.


If you are dead set on Eboni inks, you could probably use those instead—they are just not the inks I prefer.



Re: [Digital BW] Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-12-13 by m venz

Thank you Richard and Paul. You both have an enviable level of expertise and your views and comments are highly valued. I appreciate the time you have taken to respond to this issue.


Thanks again.


Michael V



From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2016 20:21
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-5K-Plus-cmy.pdf

www.paulroark.com
1 5K + LC, LM, & Y Inkset Epson 4000 (& Other Epson 8-ink printers with QTR support) www.PaulRoark.com 6-2012c This is a modification of the 6K Plus carbon-based ...



There is a trade off between flexibility and simplicity. After exploring the full range, I found that the single blended toner struck the balance I was looking for. I, also, found very few B&W photographers had the patience to deal with more. Profiling becomes tedious as the variables multiply.

There is a lot to be said for simplicity.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

www.paulroark.com
by Paul Roark. Welcome to My Home Page. Swiftcurrent Lake, Glacier National Park, 2016 In September, 2017, I will have a special show at Gallery Los Olivos.





On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 9:23 PM, richard@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Something you might want to consider, especially since the R2000 is an 8-ink printer, is using a K5 set and put in LcLmY inks. You could swap out MK and PK and use a protective spray in place of a gloss optimizer—UV protection and anti-bronzing in one shot... That way you'll get far more toning options and all the benefit of quad(+) printing than using a single blue toner—everything from super warm sepia from mixing various ratios of Lm and Y to super cold with mixing Lc and Lm. I just set up a 3880 using Piezography WN shades 1,2,4,5,6 plus the Epson LcLmY. I've only profiled a few Canson papers, but I am pretty excited with a few of the test prints I made over the past few days. Once I get the kinks worked out on the small printer I am going to take it up to K6+LcLmY on the a 9900 to provide more options for printing commercially.


If you are dead set on Eboni inks, you could probably use those instead—they are just not the inks I prefer.


Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions

2016-12-30 by jerry dungan

To Update on this R1800 Set up:

Once past some delays, have now set up the R1800 as advised with the EB6 + a single MK in the PK position and + the Blue toner ,(the light blue from MIS),  in the GL position. The MK and Toner each have their own profiles so I can bring them into the print as needed. With Print Tool split toning I can print from the straight Eboni 1.1 warm all the way through a very pleasing neutral and all the way to a dark cool. Just a terrific flexible set up and kudos as always to Paul R for the guidance and encouragement.

Jerry
 --------------------------------------------
On Mon, 11/14/16, jerry dungan <jerry_4y@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink positions
 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, November 14, 2016, 8:57 PM
 
 This is a very insightful reply and
 really nicely spells out the pitfalls of where I was headed
 with the Eboni 6 VT + 3MK. As I want to produce neutral
 prints as the first objective, the warning about the
 probable too warm output comes at just the right time as I
 haven't committed to the first set up runs. I'll now set up
 with the standard Eb6, with the 2 MK's and the toner
 substituting for the 3rd MK. As for the microbanding with
 the 1.5pl droplet, I ran across that unpleasant output on
 some negatives that where banding making them useless.There
 was some remedy from a technique suggested by Roy Harrington
 in 2005 to print at 2880dpi and adjust the Ink Limit Adjust
 to ~ -30. I dropped the boost K and upped the ink values a
 tad and all that seemed to help as the microbanding
 disappeared.  But I never went on and printed out a
 variety of images to see how those were affected by the
 technique. 
 
 So for this initial set up, it'll be EB6 + MK + Toner and
 see how it turns out. Lastly, is the toner the Canon Lucia
 referenced in your EB6 + R1800 paper or is there a
 compatible alternate blue toner ink that will work as
 well?  
 
 So thanks as always for the insight and encouragement.
 
 Jerry
 --------------------------------------------
 On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@...
 [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
 positions
  To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 7:03 PM
  
  
   
  
  
  
    
  
  
      
        
        
        
  
  On Sun, Nov 13, 2016 at
  11:12 AM, jerry dungan ​... wrote:
  ​>I'll set the R1800 up
  the following way, putting in the original idea >of the
 2% instead of a toner at
  Y, and see how it goes:
  ​>​2% 
  ​>​6%
  ​>​9%
  ​>​MK
  ​>​MK
  ​>​18%
  ​>​30%
  ​>​MK
  ​It'll be warm.  My going to
  a toner, in part, reflected the fact that I was not happy
  with the way Eboni v.1.1 printed on inkjet paper.  Arches
  is still able to make a 100% carbon print that is within
  what I believe people see as "neutral."​  Most
  coated inkjet paper is no longer there; thus the
  toner.
  >And definitely Yes, QTR is the
  easier way to go.​
  
  If you are proficient in QTR, then
  you can put inks in almost any position.  You'll also
  be able to put  the toner in one of the spots that has MK
  in it.
  I was not a huge fan of the 3MK
  approach.  It was something that many liked because it
  allowed them to have color printing with matte paper as
 well
  as 100% carbon printing that was almost dead neutral. 
 MK,
  not diluted, is still very neutral.  The 3 positions were
  needed to hide microbanding.  
  What I'd probably end up doing
  with such a printer now is have only 2 MK positions --
  needed for best Arches printing as well as useful for
 making
  dilute Eb6 100% carbon prints more neutral by having one
 of
  the MK inks be a "Black Only" type ink, but used
  more as a "toner" to pull the warmer dilute ink
  image toward neutral.  Note that while 2 MKs were needed
 to
  hide microbanding when MK was the only ink, where the full
  Eb6 inks are also in the mix, a single MK is going to be a
  smoother way to pull the 100% carbon image toward neutral
  than using the full 3MK profiles in conjunction with an
 Eb6
  profile.  As such, I'd put the toner where the third MK
  would be.  I'd use only QTR to print.  
  This is all easy to do piecemeal. 
  An Eb6 plus 3MK setup allows you to see how each approach
  works.  If you want more neutrality, the toner can be
  easily added later.
  Paulwww.PaulRoark.com 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
  
   
  
  
  
    
  
  
      
        
        
        Paul,
  
   
  
  Thanks as always for your time on an answer for a well
  running but older system. I'll set the R1800 up the
  following way, putting in the original idea of the 2%
  instead of a toner at Y, and see how it goes:
  
  
  
  2% 
  
  6%
  
  9%
  
  MK
  
  MK
  
  18%
  
  30%
  
  MK
  
  
  
  And definitely Yes, QTR is the easier way to go.
  
  
  
  Jerry
  
  
  
  ------------------------------ --------------
  
  On Sun, 11/13/16, Paul Roark roark.paul@...
  [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
  yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  
  
  
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] eboni 6 & R2000 ink
  positions
  
   To: "DigitalB&WPrint"
 <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@
  yahoogroups.com>
  
   Date: Sunday, November 13, 2016, 8:04 AM
  
   
  
   
  
    
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
     
  
   
  
   
  
       
  
         
  
         
  
         I note that the ink order
  
   below includes a toner.  I think my initial comment
 to
  the
  
   OP was about ink order related to Eboni-6, which I
 read
  as
  
   not including a toner.  I am not sure my "follow
  the
  
   color wheel" approach to make Eboni-6 on this class
  of
  
   printer (which I believe to be in the same general
 family
  as
  
   the old R1800) Epson driver compatible will work if
 there
  is
  
   a toner in the inkset.  I probably posted some
 profiles
  for
  
   Eb6 in the R1800 that assumed 2% MK in Y.  Those
  profiles
  
   will cause the highlights to be way too cool if Y has
 a
  
   light blue toner in it.  
  
   With the standard hextone
  
   printers, the blue Photoshop curve can easily
 control
  yellow
  
   position ink.  Thus my recent variable tone inksets
  usually
  
   work very well with that toner position.  And if I
 had
  an
  
   R2000, I'd still start with the color wheel
  
   positioning.  It may take some experimenting to see
 how
  the
  
   setup works with the toner, however.  The Epson
 drivers
  for
  
   these printers that include more than the standard
 CMY
  
   colors don't fit the Photoshop curves model as
  directly
  
   as the hextone printers.
  
   QTR control is almost
  
   always the easier way to go.
  
   Paulwww.PaulRoark.com 
  
   Jerry wrote:
  
   >The question was
  
   about the ink loading sequence on the R1800 in the
 link
  
   you>
  
    provided. That very informative report says to
  sequence
  
   the Eboni 6 from lightest to >darkest and the MK
  
   goes into the MK, PK and GL positions. Does that
 turn
  out
  
   to > mean
  
   the sequence for the Eboni 6VT + 3 MK is:
  
   >Toner>6% MK>9% MK>18%
 MK>MK>MK>30%
  MK>MK
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
       
  
        
  
   
  
       
  
       
  
   
  
   
  
   
  
   #yiv3374244924 #yiv3374244924 --

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