Digital BW, The Print

My ink should be arriving soon from MIS.  (Their service has been very
poor.  I paid for 2 day Fedex shipping on the 14th, and they haven't
arrived yet.  Not only that, but unlike my other orders they haven’t
given me a tracking number.  So far I’ve gotten much better service
buying items direct from Hong Kong.)

I’ll be setting up Carbon-6 in my 7600, using MIS C6C base.  Mixing
up the whole inkset instead of just trying Eboni seems like a good
idea, as I’ll have to run an initial fill or similar when installing,
and I’d rather do that as few times as I can.

The 7600 has 7 inks slots.  Starting from left to right:

#1     (Black)     Eboni MK,
#2     (LK)	30% Eboni,
#3     (Cyan)    30% Eboni,
#4     (Magenta) 13.5 % Eboni,
#5     (LC)        6%  Eboni,
#6     (LM)       6% Eboni,
#7     (Yellow)  2% Eboni

Is this still the recommended setup?  I’ll only be using QTR.
Hopefully, the results will be good enough with Arches HP.  If not,
I’ll use Epson HPN.

pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> ...
> I’ll be setting up Carbon-6 in my 7600, using MIS C6C base.

What I did with a 4000 is setting it up was to clean out the tubes
first with cleaning fluid (just plain base) by detaching the tube from
the damper and using a syringe with a bottom fill adapter on it to
pull the old ink out of the line and the clear base into the line.
After sitting for a day with clear fluid, I flushed them again and
them had that fluid pulled through the heads with a power clean.  It
worked very well.


> The 7600 has 7 inks slots.  Starting from left to right:

The standard setup I recommend for the 7600 is in
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf, at the bottom of page 3
and the top of page 4.


>
> #1     (Black)     Eboni MK,

> #2     (LK)     30% Eboni,

I recommend 18% Eboni for the LK as well as the M positions.  I don't
think you need two 30% inks in the setup.  With a normal QTR
partitioning, the part of the scale near the black end is already
rather tight -- that is, you have a lot of steep cross-overs.  If you
were to use the Epson driver either the 18% or 30% would work.

The one use I can think of for a second 30% would be if, like I did
with the 1400, you wanted to use it to slightly lower the Lab B of the
midtones.  It is  probably too dark to be used all way up, but on
large prints it might be OK.  On the 1400, using a Black Only curve
like that really lowers the Lab B, but those BO dots are a bit too
prominent for me.  Nonetheless, the 30%, perhaps paired with another,
lighter ink or manually drawn to avoid it's use until, maybe, dusting
in just a bit starting at 15%, used as  "toner" might have value.
This would take some experimenting.  Note that just having a single
30% and not using it in the primary QTR partition might be just as
good as a second 30%.  In the 1400, it worked very well.

> #3     (Cyan)    30% Eboni,

> #4     (Magenta) 13.5 % Eboni,

This is light.  I recommend 18%.  The "standard" setup I recommend in
the PDF prints light with the Epson driver.  Some find that it
actually matches their LCD monitors rather well, but I would not want
to go much lighter.  I understand that you'll be using QTR, but I do
recommend you keep the Epson driver as a possibility.   It does some
things rather well.

The 13.5% was a mix I recommended for those who wanted an "EZ" setup
in a C88.  It was close to the MIS EZ ink density and printed rather
well all across the scale.  With QTR you could use the 13.5 the way I
used the 30% in the 1400 -- as a "toner" to span the entire midtone
scale.  However, unlike the 30%, this will not lower Lab B.  It'll
probably raise it.

When the 2400 first came out, I used the C88 EZ Yellow to plug into
the Y position of the 2400.  Even the chip was compatible (2400 Y
apparently was the same ink as C88 Y).  It may be rather counter
intuitive, but the denser EZ ink actually made a smoother looking
print than using a lighter LLK type carbon ink.  I'm getting the same
visual impression from the 1400 with the 30% spanning the scale.  Why
do dots that are just under what one sees as a dot make the ramp look
smoother??  I can see on very close (dual reading glasses) inspection
that the pure 2% is probably technically smoother in the 5% patch, but
that is not the visual impression of the overall print.  It may be
that the single ink spanning the scale hides the cross-overs better,
or the denser ink is hiding some microbanding, or there is something
about the "edge of visibility" dots tying the scale together.  I don't
know.


> #5     (LC)        6%  Eboni,

The standard setup I recommend uses 9% Eboni for LC.

> #6     (LM)       6% Eboni,
> #7     (Yellow)  2% Eboni

> ... I’ll only be using QTR.

You might want to leave the possibility of the Epson driver there.
With coated matte papers it's a handy workflow.  A print on a paper
like Epson Hot Press Natural with an ICC, with an embedded curve using
lots of 2% initially, and otherwise partitioning the inks (giving a 24
bit pipeline to the printer) gives you a benchmark for performance of
other workflows.  It's a easy and fast alternative for coated papers.

> Hopefully, the results will be good enough with Arches HP.  If not,
> I’ll use Epson HPN.

Let us know how it works out.  I know there are others looking at the
same setup.  I was just told Epson is pulling the plug on supporting
the old 7500.  So, those with the older machines might want to
consider what they'll do when the parts disappear for that machine.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

>
>
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Thank you, Paul!  I took the ink order and percentages from your  "Epson
7800 & Carbon-6" pdf. I'm glad that I asked for verification.

So the recommended setup is:

#1     (Black)     Eboni MK,

#2     (LK)       18% Eboni

#3     (Cyan)     30% Eboni,

#4     (Magenta) 18 % Eboni,

#5     (LC)          9%  Eboni,

#6     (LM)         6% Eboni,

#7     (Yellow)   2% Eboni


Is the second 18% used as a toner to minimize crossover visibility?

I'll be very happy to report back how this inkset performs in my 7600.


Btw., your advice on how to clear the ink lines worked very well.

Peter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is very timely. Coincidentally, I also ordered supplies for an Eboni
revamp of my printer (Epson 2200) on 14 Sep and am also still waiting for
the 3-5 day delivery.

Paul, would you say that this spread of ink mixes should be what I follow?

Thanks,
Pete

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:05 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> Thank you, Paul!  I took the ink order and percentages from your  "Epson
> 7800 & Carbon-6" pdf. I'm glad that I asked for verification.
>
> So the recommended setup is:
>
> #1     (Black)     Eboni MK,
>
> #2     (LK)       18% Eboni
>
> #3     (Cyan)     30% Eboni,
>
> #4     (Magenta) 18 % Eboni,
>
> #5     (LC)          9%  Eboni,
>
> #6     (LM)         6% Eboni,
>
> #7     (Yellow)   2% Eboni
>
>
> Is the second 18% used as a toner to minimize crossover visibility?
>
> I'll be very happy to report back how this inkset performs in my 7600.
>
>
> Btw., your advice on how to clear the ink lines worked very well.
>
> Peter
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
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>  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
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> THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
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> GROUP.
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>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Peter,


**
>   I took the ink order and percentages from your "Epson
>
> 7800 & Carbon-6" pdf.
>

I lose track of the old PDFs.  I'll take a look at that.

Originally, I was thinking I'd make what I called a "dual" system with 2
jets per midtone ink.  The second tube would be a return tube that would
allow me to pull the old ink out of the line -- like a power clean, but
with the ability to recover the ink.  In fact, my tests showed that the ink
in the lines was not that much of a problem.  The back and forth of the
head seems to agitate the lines enough, and the amount of ink in the
dampers seem to average out any settling that might have occurred very
close to the head -- at least for the amount of time my printer usually
sits idle.  So, I abandoned the complex "dual" approach.



> So the recommended setup is:
>
> #1 (Black) Eboni MK,
>
> #2 (LK) 18% Eboni
>
> #3 (Cyan) 30% Eboni,
>
> #4 (Magenta) 18 % Eboni,
>
> #5 (LC) 9% Eboni,
>
>
> #6 (LM) 6% Eboni,
>
> #7 (Yellow) 2% Eboni
>

Yes.  It's good to standardize.  That way profiles will be more easily
shared, and it works with the Epson driver.



>
> Is the second 18% used as a toner to minimize crossover visibility?
>


It could be.  However, unfortunately, it does not have a low Lab B.  In
fact, it's about the peak of it.

What you might do is use the LM and M toghther as a toner.  Or, you can
partition without it in the mix and then simply copy the curve from the
first M to the LK and cut the ink limit of both in half.  Even better,
though more complex, would be to use it as a "toner" but manually drawn to
keep it to the mid-section.  You can then lower the ink limits of the
middle inks to compensate for that.

I do like the idea of more than a single, "serial" partition, in part as a
hedge against variations that throw off the cross-overs.  A redundant
midtone ink allows that.  On the other hand, as I mentioned before, I also
am not real thrilled with how steep the cross-overs are with both an LK
(18%) and D (30%) ink in a serial partition.  Again, they look great
initially, but I worry about the steep cross-overs' ability to absorb ink
and paper variations.

I've also thought of using K3 LK as a cooling ink if I wanted cooler
prints.  The K3 LK (as well as LLK and PK [as a midtone]) make an amazingly
neutral/cool ink on Arches.  I've actually used HP PK/Gray for that
purpose.  These OEM grays are blended carbon-color inks, however.  So, the
100% carbon claim would have to be avoided.

The truth is, 7 different dilutions is overkill.  So, in my 7800 I use 5
Eboni-based inks and then have the MIS LLK, LK, and PK for my "sepia"
printing.  (But only 3 grays is really not enough for top quality.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, the 2200 and 7600 present the same basic issues.

There is no magic here.  So, with the 2200 it's so easy to swap carts,
you might experiment with different setups or OEM blended K3 or HP
grays for cooler prints.

Paul

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Pete Bergstrom
<petebergstrom@...> wrote:

> This is very timely. Coincidentally, I also ordered supplies for an Eboni
> revamp of my printer (Epson 2200) on 14 Sep and am also still waiting for
> the 3-5 day delivery.
>
> Paul, would you say that this spread of ink mixes should be what I follow?
>
> Thanks,
> Pete
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:05 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Paul!  I took the ink order and percentages from your  "Epson
>> 7800 & Carbon-6" pdf. I'm glad that I asked for verification.
>>
>> So the recommended setup is:
>>
>> #1     (Black)     Eboni MK,
>>
>> #2     (LK)       18% Eboni
>>
>> #3     (Cyan)     30% Eboni,
>>
>> #4     (Magenta) 18 % Eboni,
>>
>> #5     (LC)          9%  Eboni,
>>
>> #6     (LM)         6% Eboni,
>>
>> #7     (Yellow)   2% Eboni
>>
>>
>> Is the second 18% used as a toner to minimize crossover visibility?
>>
>> I'll be very happy to report back how this inkset performs in my 7600.
>>
>>
>> Btw., your advice on how to clear the ink lines worked very well.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>> them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>> the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>> and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>> section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR
>> THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>> GROUP.
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Thanks, Paul, I've planned on (and am looking forward to) doing some
experimentation.

Warm regards,
Pete

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> Yes, the 2200 and 7600 present the same basic issues.
>
> There is no magic here.  So, with the 2200 it's so easy to swap carts,
> you might experiment with different setups or OEM blended K3 or HP
> grays for cooler prints.
>
> Paul
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some Eboni/Carbon-6 profiles for the 2200 are at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/C6-2200-Profiles.zip

I was using PS curves and ICCs made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.  I hope the
PS curves included in the folder will also be usable to profile new papers.
 I don't know if they would also port easily to the 7600.  It's worth a try.

Very often a simple re-linearization with an existing curve is all that is
needed.  Even if you don't have a spectro, a flatbed can do this.  See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Making_B-W_ICCs-GrayCard.pdf and the QTR
and the QTR Step-Wedge Tool automation of this process at
http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRdownload.html

An old PDF of mine also deals with making the ICCs with embedded curves.
 See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Embedding_Photoshop_Curves_in_ICCs.pdf


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Would it make sense to make one curve with:

#1  (black)  Eboni

#2  (LK)  18% Eboni

#4 (M)  18% Eboni

#6  (LM)  6% Eboni



And another curve with:

#1  (black) Eboni,

#3  (cyan) 30% Eboni,

#5  (LC)  9% Eboni,

#7 (Y)  2 % Eboni



One could use curve blending to mix the two together.

I do have a Spyder3print.

Peter


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Would it make sense to make one curve with:
>
> #1 (black) Eboni
>
> #2 (LK) 18% Eboni
>
> #4 (M) 18% Eboni
>
> #6 (LM) 6% Eboni
>
> And another curve with:
>
> #1 (black) Eboni,
>
> #3 (cyan) 30% Eboni,
>
> #5 (LC) 9% Eboni,
>
> #7 (Y) 2 % Eboni
>
> One could use curve blending to mix the two together.
>
> I do have a Spyder3print.
>
> Give it a try and see how it looks.

Instead of the second curve, you can do essentially the same thing by
having the second set a toner.  That way a single linearization takes care
of both of them.  I find this is usually more accurate than the blending
approach, though I use the blending approach to test different combinations.

Note that once you've found you ink limits and densities for a standard Eb6
partition, most of the work is done.  You can just re-label some of the
inks for the "toner" or "toners" and split the dilute ink limits between or
among the "channels" you've set up.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Pete Bergstrom <petebergstrom@...>wrote:

> This is very timely. Coincidentally, I also ordered supplies for an Eboni
> revamp of my printer (Epson 2200) on 14 Sep and am also still waiting for
> the 3-5 day delivery.
>

Pete, give MIS a call.  I opened a support ticket a few days ago asking for
the tracking number, but never heard back.  This morning I called.  A
friendly and helpful woman answered the phone.  She checked and my order
hadn't shipped, although that's what it says on MIS's order page.
Something is on back order, either the Eboni or the base, but she didn't
know which.  She was supposed to have their inventory manager give me a
call when he got in, but this hasn't happened yet.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Support ticket opened Tuesday, haven't heard back. Left phone message
Tuesday, haven't heard back. Called again yesterday, decided not to fill
their voicemail box.

It's a shame, because the first order I made from them went very well and I
assumed they had their act together.

Pete

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:58 AM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Pete Bergstrom <petebergstrom@...
> >wrote:
>
> > This is very timely. Coincidentally, I also ordered supplies for an Eboni
> > revamp of my printer (Epson 2200) on 14 Sep and am also still waiting for
> > the 3-5 day delivery.
> >
>
> Pete, give MIS a call.  I opened a support ticket a few days ago asking for
> the tracking number, but never heard back.  This morning I called.  A
> friendly and helpful woman answered the phone.  She checked and my order
> hadn't shipped, although that's what it says on MIS's order page.
> Something is on back order, either the Eboni or the base, but she didn't
> know which.  She was supposed to have their inventory manager give me a
> call when he got in, but this hasn't happened yet.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
> �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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> GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rose at MIS said that Eboni is currently back-ordered.  They expect it in
tomorrow, i.e. Friday.

Peter

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Pete Bergstrom <petebergstrom@...>wrote:

> Support ticket opened Tuesday, haven't heard back. Left phone message
> Tuesday, haven't heard back. Called again yesterday, decided not to fill
> their voicemail box.
>
> It's a shame, because the first order I made from them went very well and I
> assumed they had their act together.
>
> Pete
>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 11:58 AM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...>
> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Pete Bergstrom <
> petebergstrom@...
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > This is very timely. Coincidentally, I also ordered supplies for an
> Eboni
> > > revamp of my printer (Epson 2200) on 14 Sep and am also still waiting
> for
> > > the 3-5 day delivery.
> > >
> >
> > Pete, give MIS a call.  I opened a support ticket a few days ago asking
> for
> > the tracking number, but never heard back.  This morning I called.  A
> > friendly and helpful woman answered the phone.  She checked and my order
> > hadn't shipped, although that's what it says on MIS's order page.
> > Something is on back order, either the Eboni or the base, but she didn't
> > know which.  She was supposed to have their inventory manager give me a
> > call when he got in, but this hasn't happened yet.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources
> as
> > they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
> same
> > page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> > and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
> > �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> >  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR
> > THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO
> > GROUP.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
> �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR
> THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Eboni ink and base finally arrived from MIS today.  While in the
process of weighing out the dilutions, I noticed that two of my re-fillable
cartridges were the wrong ones, obviously for another printer.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It took awhile, but I was finally able to get my 7600 working with my
Windows 7-64 computer.  I've only installed the Eboni cartridge, as I'm
waiting for some replacement cartridges. (The other spots have cleaning
fluid in them.)

I printed out the QTR calibration page on Arches and HPR.  The prints
air-dried for an hour or so, and then I hit them with a hair dryer for
about 5 minutes.  I believe the dmax of the Arches should increase over
night.

I used a Spyder Print spectro to measure densities, using a piece of
natural white mat board under the print.

The Eboni + Arches yielded a max density of 1.57.
The Eboni + HPR yielded a max density of 1.62.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I printed off another Ink Separation page in QTR's calibrate mode.  This
time, I centered the image and used the "scale to fit" box.  This gave
bigger squares to measure.  After hair drying for 5 minutes, the highest
density square for the Arches read 1.70, quite a jump.

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 2:11 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> It took awhile, but I was finally able to get my 7600 working with my
> Windows 7-64 computer.  I've only installed the Eboni cartridge, as I'm
> waiting for some replacement cartridges. (The other spots have cleaning
> fluid in them.)
>
> I printed out the QTR calibration page on Arches and HPR.  The prints
> air-dried for an hour or so, and then I hit them with a hair dryer for
> about 5 minutes.  I believe the dmax of the Arches should increase over
> night.
>
> I used a Spyder Print spectro to measure densities, using a piece of
> natural white mat board under the print.
>
> The Eboni + Arches yielded a max density of 1.57.
> The Eboni + HPR yielded a max density of 1.62.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just to put some perspective on this:

D=1.57 means that 2.7% of the light striking the paper is reflected.
D=1.7 means that 2% is reflected.

This difference is probably at the edge of what can be measured accurately or detected visually (by my densitometer or eyes, anyway).

David

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pdesmidt tds.net" <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

>
> I printed off another Ink Separation page in QTR's calibrate mode.  This
> time, I centered the image and used the "scale to fit" box.  This gave
> bigger squares to measure.  After hair drying for 5 minutes, the highest
> density square for the Arches read 1.70, quite a jump.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 2:11 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:
> 
> > It took awhile, but I was finally able to get my 7600 working with my
> > Windows 7-64 computer.  I've only installed the Eboni cartridge, as I'm
> > waiting for some replacement cartridges. (The other spots have cleaning
> > fluid in them.)
> >
> > I printed out the QTR calibration page on Arches and HPR.  The prints
> > air-dried for an hour or so, and then I hit them with a hair dryer for
> > about 5 minutes.  I believe the dmax of the Arches should increase over
> > night.
> >
> > I used a Spyder Print spectro to measure densities, using a piece of
> > natural white mat board under the print.
> >
> > The Eboni + Arches yielded a max density of 1.57.
> > The Eboni + HPR yielded a max density of 1.62.
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... 7600 ... Eboni ...
>


> QTR calibration page on Arches and HPR. The prints
> air-dried for an hour or so, and then I hit them with a hair dryer for
> about 5 minutes. I believe the dmax of the Arches should increase over
> night.
>
> I used a Spyder Print spectro to measure densities, using a piece of
> natural white mat board under the print.
>
> The Eboni + Arches yielded a max density of 1.57.
> The Eboni + HPR yielded a max density of 1.62.
>
>
The Arches dmax looks rather normal.  I've only read over 1.6 with Arches
when printed with a 1400.  The 7600 does not appear to suffer from the
sub-normal dmax I'm seeing on the 4000.

The HPR dmax seems lower than I would expect.

> I printed off another Ink Separation page in QTR's calibrate mode. This
> time, I centered the image and used the "scale to fit" box. This gave
> bigger squares to measure. After hair drying for 5 minutes, the highest
> density square for the Arches read 1.70, quite a jump.

1.7 on Arches is a bit hard to believe.  Are you sure that was not the HPR?


dpgoldenberg33 goldenberg@... wrote:

>  Just to put some perspective on this:

> D=1.57 means that 2.7% of the light striking the paper is reflected.
> D=1.7 means that 2% is reflected.

> This difference is probably at the edge of what can be measured
accurately or detected visually (by my densitometer or eyes, anyway).

That is an interesting perspective.  I find that as long as I get about
1.57 on Arches they look fine in indoor display.  With very bright lights
the differences become more visible.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can run another test tomorrow.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or I could just compare print feel.  Paul, you're right.  I must've had a
mix-up.  The high dmax paper was clearly HPR.  I had to trim both papers
down from big sheets on my Rotatrim, and I mixed up the second one.  I'll
have to mark them on the back with pencil to minimize that kind of thing in
future tests.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:15 PM, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> I can run another test tomorrow.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unfortunately, when I turned the 7600 on today, I received a "set ink
cartridge" error message.  I tried turning the printer off, unlocking the
ink, re-moving and re-inserting the cartridge, turn printer on, raise ink
lever method to no avail.  I also tried resetting the NPD value to 0 in
maintenance mode 2, which also didn't work. Putting back the Epson Glossy
PK (which has cleaning fluid in) did work.  Suggestions?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re do the procedure starting with the pk in the printer and then swap out
to the matte cart. Works here if followed exactly. Then go into printer
preferences and check which ink is loaded. It should say matt/light Black
in the menu. If it's not that then it could be the chip. You could
potentially take the chip from the pk cart and put it on the mk cart. By
reading your posts I'd say that you are using Icc profiles or qtr and it
shouldnt matter which cart the printer thinks is in their for this work
anyways. Maybe if you are using the Epson driver but not for black + white
output? Ive read elsewhere of people keeping the pk chip on for the bigger
list of stocks available through the Epson driver but using mk instead. May
save some time...

On 7 October 2012 05:30, pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Unfortunately, when I turned the 7600 on today, I received a "set ink
> cartridge" error message. I tried turning the printer off, unlocking the
> ink, re-moving and re-inserting the cartridge, turn printer on, raise ink
> lever method to no avail. I also tried resetting the NPD value to 0 in
> maintenance mode 2, which also didn't work. Putting back the Epson Glossy
> PK (which has cleaning fluid in) did work. Suggestions?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for the tips.  I found out that by turning off the chip sensor
that I can use the spare funnel fill cartridges for my 4880 in my 7600.  As
a result, I've been able to load the entire EB6 ink set, and so far I've
gotten good nozzle checks.  I'm working on making a QTR profile for Arches,
based on Paul's example.  My dmax with Arches on the ink separation page is
1.61.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... in my 7600. ... EB6 ink set,...
>

 My dmax with Arches on the ink separation page is 1.61.
>

That's about as good as it gets with Arches, and it will look very good in
normal indoor lighting.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]