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1100 & Eboni-4

1100 & Eboni-4

2011-02-23 by Paul

I've installed Eboni-4 in the Epson 1100, and it might make an interesting option.

The PDF is at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf

The Photoshop image adjustment curve is shown and posted.  This is put into an ICC with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.

A scan of a 21-step test print has also been posted to check out the results.  I think the texture is mostly just the smooth paper.

I've also included the Lab B graphs for the Premier Art Smooth Hot Press paper (which I used for Elverhoj museum matte prints), as well as the newer Epson Hot Press papers.  It makes an interesting comparison.  Are they all just variations of the same basic paper?

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-02-24 by Paul

I updated the 1100 Eboni-4 PDF.  

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf

The reason for the update is that I was able to profile Premier Art's Smooth BW with a new Photoshop curve that holds down the total ink load while still partitioning the inks for the best smoothness and best tones.  This allows PaSmoothBW, the most neutral printing paper with Eboni-6, to print with a lab b that starts at about -1 for the paper white, is about +1 for the 50% patch, and peaks at 1.5.  This makes a rather neutral 100% carbon print.  This curve #2 is in the Zip file of 1100 profiles. ICC with the latest curve is #2.

The curve smooths the cross-overs and has been working on several different papers with the only changes needed being to set the black point where the dmax is best for the particular paper.

The 1100 keeps getting better.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-12 by Paul

MIS has loaded Eboni-4 (100%, 18%, 6%, & 2%) into carts for the Epson WorkForce 1100.  
See http://www.inksupply.com/epson_workforce_1100_eb4.cfm

I have a brief PDF on this setup at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf

To see how smoothly this can print, see 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4-EpsHP-scan.jpg

With it's slightly larger dots, the 1100 prints slightly more neutrally than the 1400 on some papers, like Premier Art Smooth BW.  


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-13 by Phillip Kimble

Paul,

Is there a difference between the MIS Eboni ink and UTR14 ink- black or Eboni-K 
vs UT14-K in specific?


 



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 4:11:41 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

  
MIS has loaded Eboni-4 (100%, 18%, 6%, & 2%) into carts for the Epson WorkForce 
1100. 

See http://www.inksupply.com/epson_workforce_1100_eb4.cfm

I have a brief PDF on this setup at 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf

To see how smoothly this can print, see 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4-EpsHP-scan.jpg

With it's slightly larger dots, the 1100 prints slightly more neutrally than the 
1400 on some papers, like Premier Art Smooth BW. 


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-13 by Paul

Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>
 
> Is there a difference between the MIS Eboni ink and 
> UTR14 ink- black or Eboni-K 
> vs UT14-K in specific?

All MIS matte blacks in the inksets we usually talk about are Eboni MK -- the same ink.

The midtones in UT14 are not based on Eboni.  They are glossy compatible and very warm.  Ut14 needed to be glossy compatible and was designed as a variable tone inkset.  So, it uses quite a bit of color ink blended into the cool C-LC channel (Actually a blend of MIS cyan, R800 blue and K4-PK & LK).

The midtones in the Eboni-4 or 6 inksets are based on Eboni and more neutral than would be possible with the glossy compatible inks.  So, either by itself or when used in a blend, the Eboni matte only carbon core is what I favor for fine art printing. 

I have my 1400 set up with what I call Eboni-4 Plus.  The Eboni-4 acts as the carbon core to whatever is put in the other two spots.  I use the MIS UT14 C and LC as the default setup because it's commercially available.  I use the Noritsu advanced dyes for my glossy cards, and I use HP inks as the toners if I want to print a more neutral matte paper image.  The HP PK & Gray make for simple profiling (2 dimensional, not small gamut 3D like the UT 3D) and do fine for my glossy brochures.
  

(For the 1400 Eb-4, use the Eb-6 1400 inks minus the C and LC.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 4:11:41 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4
> 
> Â  
> MIS has loaded Eboni-4 (100%, 18%, 6%, & 2%) into carts for the Epson WorkForce 
> 1100. 
> 
> See http://www.inksupply.com/epson_workforce_1100_eb4.cfm
> 
> I have a brief PDF on this setup at 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf
> 
> To see how smoothly this can print, see 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4-EpsHP-scan.jpg
> 
> With it's slightly larger dots, the 1100 prints slightly more neutrally than the 
> 1400 on some papers, like Premier Art Smooth BW. 
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-13 by Phillip Kimble

Paul,
 
So UT14-K and Eboni MK are the same ink even though the label on the bottle is 
"UT14-4-K". I can live with that. I need to order more matte black & want to 
ensure that I get the right stuff. So let me ask this question to rest my weary 
mind, if K4+ & Eb4+ uses Eboni MK, PK (UT14-C), Eb6-M, Eb6-LM, would this be the 
same as mixing an inkset based on Eboni MK (100%, 18%, 6%, 2%) and using UT14-C? 
Or is there a significant difference between 18% Eboni MK and Eb6-M?
 
After 2 weeks of profiling a 1400-K4 setup using UT4-K/Eboni matteK (100%, 18%, 
6%, & 2%) with 6% UT14-C on Epson Premium Matte (EPPM), I realized I was using 
more LLC to achieve a controlled neutral print than the other inks. This had a 
dramtic impact on the dmax and I finally released the 80% to achieve the desired 
maximum black denisty. Of course I should have tested other papers but 
researched a bit more and changed out the 18% MK ink.
 
I decided to replace the 18% MK in the Cyan position with 100% UT14-C. If I 
understand correctly, I need the 100% Cyan to help control the upper mid tones 
and black to achieve a neutral tone. From what I read both the Eb4+ & K4+ 
inksets use 100% PK in the Cyan position. Bringing me to question if there is a 
significant difference between diluted Eboni MK and Eb6-Magenta.Would it be 
worthwhile to buy a 4 ounce bottle of Eb6-Magenta to compare with 18% MK and 
UT14-M?
 
I see the Workforce 1100 is a very flexible and cost worthy 4 ink printer 
capable of handling everything from Ez-N b&w approach to vari-tone to a 
dedicated quadtone printer. How does it compare to using the 2200 with a K4/Eb4 
inkset? My very young thought is to question the ability to control the warm 
tones. The four carbon core inkset creates a warm tone. The larger dot patterns 
of the 1100 like the 2200 creates a warmer tone then the 1400. So how difficult 
will it be to achieve a neutral tone if all 4 inks are carbon core without the 
C/LC inks to help control it?
Regardless of what the White House thinks, you're the best!
Phil
 


 



________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 12:42:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

  
Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>

> Is there a difference between the MIS Eboni ink and 
> UTR14 ink- black or Eboni-K 
> vs UT14-K in specific?

All MIS matte blacks in the inksets we usually talk about are Eboni MK -- the 
same ink.

The midtones in UT14 are not based on Eboni. They are glossy compatible and very 
warm. Ut14 needed to be glossy compatible and was designed as a variable tone 
inkset. So, it uses quite a bit of color ink blended into the cool C-LC channel 
(Actually a blend of MIS cyan, R800 blue and K4-PK & LK).

The midtones in the Eboni-4 or 6 inksets are based on Eboni and more neutral 
than would be possible with the glossy compatible inks. So, either by itself or 
when used in a blend, the Eboni matte only carbon core is what I favor for fine 
art printing. 


I have my 1400 set up with what I call Eboni-4 Plus. The Eboni-4 acts as the 
carbon core to whatever is put in the other two spots. I use the MIS UT14 C and 
LC as the default setup because it's commercially available. I use the Noritsu 
advanced dyes for my glossy cards, and I use HP inks as the toners if I want to 
print a more neutral matte paper image. The HP PK & Gray make for simple 
profiling (2 dimensional, not small gamut 3D like the UT 3D) and do fine for my 
glossy brochures.


(For the 1400 Eb-4, use the Eb-6 1400 inks minus the C and LC.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> 
> ________________________________
> From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 4:11:41 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4
> 
> Â  
> MIS has loaded Eboni-4 (100%, 18%, 6%, & 2%) into carts for the Epson WorkForce 
>
> 1100. 
> 
> See http://www.inksupply.com/epson_workforce_1100_eb4.cfm
> 
> I have a brief PDF on this setup at 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4.pdf
> 
> To see how smoothly this can print, see 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100-Eb4-EpsHP-scan.jpg
> 
> With it's slightly larger dots, the 1100 prints slightly more neutrally than 
>the 
>
> 1400 on some papers, like Premier Art Smooth BW. 
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



Paul,
 
Thank for the explain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-14 by Paul

Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

>  
> ... if K4+ & Eb4+ ...

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking here.  "K4+" (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf) used Eboni Mk for the K, but then used the glossy-compatible MIS carbons for the other 3 carbon core inks.  Eb4+ uses Eboni MK and 3 dilute Eboni inks -- not glossy compatible and more neutral than the glossy carbon.  (See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf)

Either approach can use a variety of other inks as the "Plus" inks. In the K4+, to make it able to hit neutral I used LM and LC (or 50% LC).  This becomes much like the OEM K3 when used with QTR except that I had both MK and PK in the printer.  I used the PK as the K for glossy printing and as the most dense gray ink for matte printing.  For my own printing, I used Epson LM then to try and avoid or minimize the green shift problems blended third party inks tend to have.  


In the Eb4+ the "default" plus inks include the MIS UT14 C (a neutral PKn) and UT14 LC (neutralized LK) because they are commercially available, pre-loaded in 1400 carts and relatively inexpensive.  They are fine inks, equal to what most dedicated neutralized B&W inksets offer. HP PK & "LK" are, currently, what I'd use for fine art that I'm selling if I want cooler prints. I know HP has balanced these to avoid the green shift.  (Whether HP LC and LM [or blue] used in blended inks avoids the green shift is un-tested.)



>... is there a significant difference between 18% Eboni MK and Eb6-M?

Eb6-M is 18% Eboni.



> ... Eb6-Magenta ... compare with 18% MK and UT14-M?

Eb6-M = 18% Eboni, but UT14-M is K4-PK, which is glossy compatible, warmer, and denser than Eb6-M.


> ... Workforce 1100 is a very flexible and cost worthy 4 ink printer 
> capable of handling everything from Ez-N b&w approach to vari-tone 

I probably would not put a variable-tone inkset in it, although the original UT1 was a variable tone made for the 1160 and 3000 quads.

> dedicated quadtone printer.

The 1100 can make a nice traditional quadtone printer, but it lacks QTR support.

> How does it compare to using the 2200 with a K4/Eb4 
> inkset?

I don't recommend a quadtone like the 1100 for anything except a monotone approach now.


> Regardless of what the White House thinks, ...

(You lost me there.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-14 by Phillip Kimble

Paul,

I think I am completely and definately turned around backwards and a little 
inside out. What you are sayng is the K4+ inks are not pure carbon inks in the 
respect they are glossy compatable and potentialy mixed with other color 
pigments while the Eb4+ inks are pure carbon or at least dilutions of Eboni 
mk. So I take it the MIS K4-LK inks are glossy compatiable? Not sure why I am 
have such problems with this as it seem fairly straight forward.

I am currently using;
Eb-Mk in the K position
UT14-C in the C position
6% Eb-Mk in the M position
2% Eb-Mk in the Y position
2% UT14-C in the LC position
50% UT-M in the LM position

To be complaint with the Eb4+ specifrications I need to rearrange the inks to;

K - 100% MK
M - 18% MK
LM - 6% MK
Y - 2% MK
C - PK
LC - 30% PK

Are the only purpose of the PK/LPK inks for glossy printing & toning?

At any moment I expect to hear a loud snap when everything falls into place & 
suddenly makes sense. It will probably be a loud thud of my forehead bouncing 
off the brick wall....

Many thanks,
Phil

 

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 9:58:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

  
Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

>  
> ... if K4+ & Eb4+ ...

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking here. "K4+" 
(http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4K+.pdf) used Eboni Mk for the K, but then 
used the glossy-compatible MIS carbons for the other 3 carbon core inks. Eb4+ 
uses Eboni MK and 3 dilute Eboni inks -- not glossy compatible and more neutral 
than the glossy carbon. (See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-4-Plus.pdf)

Either approach can use a variety of other inks as the "Plus" inks. In the K4+, 
to make it able to hit neutral I used LM and LC (or 50% LC). This becomes much 
like the OEM K3 when used with QTR except that I had both MK and PK in the 
printer. I used the PK as the K for glossy printing and as the most dense gray 
ink for matte printing. For my own printing, I used Epson LM then to try and 
avoid or minimize the green shift problems blended third party inks tend to 
have. 


In the Eb4+ the "default" plus inks include the MIS UT14 C (a neutral PKn) and 
UT14 LC (neutralized LK) because they are commercially available, pre-loaded in 
1400 carts and relatively inexpensive. They are fine inks, equal to what most 
dedicated neutralized B&W inksets offer. HP PK & "LK" are, currently, what I'd 
use for fine art that I'm selling if I want cooler prints. I know HP has 
balanced these to avoid the green shift. (Whether HP LC and LM [or blue] used in 
blended inks avoids the green shift is un-tested.)

>... is there a significant difference between 18% Eboni MK and Eb6-M?

Eb6-M is 18% Eboni.

> ... Eb6-Magenta ... compare with 18% MK and UT14-M?

Eb6-M = 18% Eboni, but UT14-M is K4-PK, which is glossy compatible, warmer, and 
denser than Eb6-M.

> ... Workforce 1100 is a very flexible and cost worthy 4 ink printer 
> capable of handling everything from Ez-N b&w approach to vari-tone 

I probably would not put a variable-tone inkset in it, although the original UT1 
was a variable tone made for the 1160 and 3000 quads.

> dedicated quadtone printer.

The 1100 can make a nice traditional quadtone printer, but it lacks QTR support.

> How does it compare to using the 2200 with a K4/Eb4 
> inkset?

I don't recommend a quadtone like the 1100 for anything except a monotone 
approach now.

> Regardless of what the White House thinks, ...

(You lost me there.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-14 by Paul

Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>
>... What you are sayng is the K4+ inks are not pure carbon 
> inks in the respect they are glossy compatable and potentialy
> mixed with other color pigments 

The glossy carbons from MIS -- for example the K4 PK, LK, & LLK are pure carbon -- no colors mixed in.  The "Plus" inks are where the color is.

The reasons I came up with the Eboni-6 and 4 as opposed to use the MIS K4 PK, LK & LLK is that the Eboni carbons are more neutral and have almost no binder in them, being matte paper only.  Glossy pigs are where the binder is needed to stick them onto the slick paper ... and other things.


> I am currently using;
> Eb-Mk in the K position
> UT14-C in the C position
> 6% Eb-Mk in the M position
> 2% Eb-Mk in the Y position
> 2% UT14-C in the LC position

That is a very light neutral-cool ink.

> 50% UT-M in the LM position

Is that 50% UT14-M?  Note that UT14 LM is LK, which is 30% of UT14-M, which is simply MIS K4-PK.

 
> To be complaint with the Eb4+ specifrications I need to rearrange the inks to;
> 
> K - 100% MK
> M - 18% MK
> LM - 6% MK
> Y - 2% MK

And if you're mixing these as opposed to buying MIS Eb6-M, LM, and Y, use the generic base and not glop.


> C - PK
> LC - 30% PK

Yes, that is one set that can go there.  The defaults are UT14 C and LC -- neutralized PK and LK.  The idea is that many want a more neutral ink and some minimal glossy capability.  The 100% carbon PK and LK give you a sepia tone on glossy paper.

 
> Are the only purpose of the PK/LPK inks for glossy printing & toning?

Yes.  If you want 100% carbon on matte and the tones that can achieve, then I'd recommend Eboni-6, not the Eboni-4 Plus the 2 others.

For the full Eboni-6, see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf 

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-14 by Phillip Kimble

Paul,

You are a tremendous help and a very patient person. Thank you for both. I think 
I lack the basic understanding of what each inkset is developed from and 
purposed for. The rest is a confusion over the the naming of the different 
inks.For example, "Note that UT14 LM is LK, which is 30% of UT14-M, which is 
simply MIS K4-PK". 


According to InkSuppy's website, the MIS K4 inks are Epson K3 compatable 
replacments and are matte + glossy. Eboni is a pure carbon core matte but more 
neutral and stable than the K4 inks. For glossy B&W prints I would elect the K4 
inks using LC & LM for toning = K4+. If I wanted more stability with the ability 
to print glossy, I would select the Eb4+ inset wth UT14-C & UT14-LC for printing 
glossy. Correct?

Yes- I meant to type "I am using 30% UT14-M in the LM position". However, if the 
K4-PK is the same as 30% UT14-M, what makes the K4-PK different from the K4-LK 
or LLK if the LK & LLK are glossy compatiable as well? Are these just diffrent 
dilitions of K4-K? Please correct me if I am mistaken but doesnt PK identify 
Photo Black meaning it is glossy compatiable versus MK which is Matte Black? 
Please believe me when I say I am honestly trying to understand this and not 
being argumentative or sarcastic. To the uninformed, it apears more logical to 
have a natural progressin of K4-K, K4-LK, K4-LLK, and finally K4-LLLK especially 
if the inks orginate from the K4-K ink. By injecting a K4-PK leads me to think 
there is a difference and naturally assume the K4-LK & LLK are non-glossy inks 
and the same as the Eb6-K inks.

Is there any difference between the MIS stock base (ESC-Base-UC), glop, and 
generic base? How does this difference if any affect final print tone? Impact on 
the printer?? I have been using the MIS clear stock UC compatiable base to mix 
the different dilitions. Is this a bad thing? I know there is a most cost 
effective apporach but a 4ounce bottle has lasted several months.

My intent is to achieve the most neutral inkset with the longest life stability. 
For glossy prints I use the R2400 with Exibition Fiber or Ilford Smooth Pearl. 
This seems to work fine for the time. Reading through the 1400-Eboni6 document, 
I see the ink denisty is pretty standard: K,C,M,LC,LM, & finally that poor 
little Yellow. Would I be wrong in assuming the densities should be 100%, 30%, 
18%, 9%, 6%, and 2% respectively? This would relay solely on paper choice to 
determine the actual print tone of warmth vs neutral though. How well would it 
fair using UT14LC as a toner to help control the Lab b warmth in the mid 
tones? This would be moving back towards the Eb4+ with the C & LC inks, yes?

So far, as the cloud of confusion begins to disipate, I see need to look closer 
at Eboni-6 than the K4+ or Eb4+. I think I have more adventure ahead of me but 
with your help I know that I will arrive at the look & tone that I 
envision. Many thanks. I am beginning to think I just need to pull the plug, 
step back, think about it, and re-set the inks using a fresh perspective.

Phil






________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 9:09:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

  
Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>
>... What you are sayng is the K4+ inks are not pure carbon 
> inks in the respect they are glossy compatable and potentialy
> mixed with other color pigments 

The glossy carbons from MIS -- for example the K4 PK, LK, & LLK are pure carbon 
-- no colors mixed in. The "Plus" inks are where the color is.

The reasons I came up with the Eboni-6 and 4 as opposed to use the MIS K4 PK, LK 
& LLK is that the Eboni carbons are more neutral and have almost no binder in 
them, being matte paper only. Glossy pigs are where the binder is needed to 
stick them onto the slick paper ... and other things.

> I am currently using;
> Eb-Mk in the K position
> UT14-C in the C position
> 6% Eb-Mk in the M position
> 2% Eb-Mk in the Y position
> 2% UT14-C in the LC position

That is a very light neutral-cool ink.

> 50% UT-M in the LM position

Is that 50% UT14-M? Note that UT14 LM is LK, which is 30% of UT14-M, which is 
simply MIS K4-PK.

> To be complaint with the Eb4+ specifrications I need to rearrange the inks to;
> 
> K - 100% MK
> M - 18% MK
> LM - 6% MK
> Y - 2% MK

And if you're mixing these as opposed to buying MIS Eb6-M, LM, and Y, use the 
generic base and not glop.

> C - PK
> LC - 30% PK

Yes, that is one set that can go there. The defaults are UT14 C and LC -- 
neutralized PK and LK. The idea is that many want a more neutral ink and some 
minimal glossy capability. The 100% carbon PK and LK give you a sepia tone on 
glossy paper.

> Are the only purpose of the PK/LPK inks for glossy printing & toning?

Yes. If you want 100% carbon on matte and the tones that can achieve, then I'd 
recommend Eboni-6, not the Eboni-4 Plus the 2 others.

For the full Eboni-6, see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf 

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-14 by Paul

Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>

> My intent is to achieve the most neutral inkset with the 
> longest life stability. 

Carbon is our most stable pigment, and Eboni is the most neutral carbon.  That is what Eboni-6 is for.  It is for matte paper only.

>... the densities should be 100%, 30%, 18%, 9%, 6%, and 2% 

Those are the Eboni-6 and Carbon-6 densities.



>... How well would it fair using UT14LC as a toner to help 
> control the Lab b warmth in the mid tones?

That is what Eb4+ is about.

I have clarified the first page of the UT14 PDF a bit regarding the inks.

> 
> ... it apears more logical to 
> have a natural progressin of K4-K, K4-LK, K4-LLK,...

Eboni is denser than PK on matte paper.  So, PK can be the most dense midtone/gray ink and work fine with Eboni on matte paper.  On glossy paper the UT14 M and C are used to print the 100% black values.


> Is there any difference between the MIS stock base 
> (ESC-Base-UC), glop, and generic base?

Yes.  MIS ESC-Base-UC is best for cleaning (better yet if diluted 50% with distilled water).

MIS Glop (gloss optimizer) is the base for the MIS glossy inks.  It can also dilute HP PK to make nice gray inks that do not bronze as much as the HP grays.

The generic base is one you mix yourself.  
See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf
It is for matte paper only. 

> How does this difference if any affect final print tone?

Glop prints a bit warmer and ESC-Base-UC prints roughly when used to dilute Eboni.  The generic base prints much the same as the base MIS uses to make Eboni-6.  As far as I know, MIS does not sell the Eboni-6 base.

> Impact on the printer??

The generic base and Eboni-6 clog less than the glossy bases.  Inks that are glossy compatible need to have something that'll stick the pigs onto the paper.  They also stick onto the heads.

> I have been using the MIS clear stock UC compatiable base to mix 
> the different dilitions. Is this a bad thing?

It will not print as smoothly as the generic base or Eboni-6.

Good luck with the system.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

2011-04-15 by Phillip Kimble

Paul,

For what it is worth, I ordered fresh bottles of Eboni in the various tones to 
provide a fresh baseline. Inksupply does state the base can be used to 
"dilute MIS Epson type inks to make lighter inks". The title suggests it can be 
used on Eboni but also used for cleaning. So once I get the new inks I will mix 
a batch of Eboni tones and compare. I trust you are correct in the fact that 
generic base will print smoother than the MIS stock base. If nothig else, the 
stock base will come in handy as a cleaning solution for my R2400 & 2200 
printers. For as little as I use in a year I just dont see the effeciency of 
mixing my own generic base.

http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=ESC-BASE-4-UC

CLEAR BASE STOCK FOR ALL MIS INKS INCLUDING ULTRATONE - 4 OZ BOTTLE 

Thanks for the help.

Phil




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Paul <roark.paul@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 2:40:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1100 & Eboni-4

  
Phillip Kimble <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:
>

> My intent is to achieve the most neutral inkset with the 
> longest life stability. 

Carbon is our most stable pigment, and Eboni is the most neutral carbon. That is 
what Eboni-6 is for. It is for matte paper only.

>... the densities should be 100%, 30%, 18%, 9%, 6%, and 2% 

Those are the Eboni-6 and Carbon-6 densities.

>... How well would it fair using UT14LC as a toner to help 
> control the Lab b warmth in the mid tones?

That is what Eb4+ is about.

I have clarified the first page of the UT14 PDF a bit regarding the inks.

> 
> ... it apears more logical to 
> have a natural progressin of K4-K, K4-LK, K4-LLK,...

Eboni is denser than PK on matte paper. So, PK can be the most dense 
midtone/gray ink and work fine with Eboni on matte paper. On glossy paper the 
UT14 M and C are used to print the 100% black values.

> Is there any difference between the MIS stock base 
> (ESC-Base-UC), glop, and generic base?

Yes. MIS ESC-Base-UC is best for cleaning (better yet if diluted 50% with 
distilled water).

MIS Glop (gloss optimizer) is the base for the MIS glossy inks. It can also 
dilute HP PK to make nice gray inks that do not bronze as much as the HP grays.

The generic base is one you mix yourself. 
See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf
It is for matte paper only. 

> How does this difference if any affect final print tone?

Glop prints a bit warmer and ESC-Base-UC prints roughly when used to dilute 
Eboni. The generic base prints much the same as the base MIS uses to make 
Eboni-6. As far as I know, MIS does not sell the Eboni-6 base.

> Impact on the printer??

The generic base and Eboni-6 clog less than the glossy bases. Inks that are 
glossy compatible need to have something that'll stick the pigs onto the paper. 
They also stick onto the heads.

> I have been using the MIS clear stock UC compatiable base to mix 
> the different dilitions. Is this a bad thing?

It will not print as smoothly as the generic base or Eboni-6.

Good luck with the system.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 




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