Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Hi,

Evolver is great as synth but does anyone use it as filterbank?
I'm planning on buying a Sherman 2 and I own an Evolver.
Just to be sure I'm not buying something I already have I would like 
to know how close an Evolver can come to a Sherman 2.
My guess is they are totally different and the Sherman is much better 
as filterbank.(and sound better)
Ronald.

PS. This may sound a stupid question - I know - why would one use 
such a great synth for something else?

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:56:54 -0000, "Roonan" <info@...> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Evolver is great as synth but does anyone use it as filterbank?
>I'm planning on buying a Sherman 2 and I own an Evolver.
>Just to be sure I'm not buying something I already have I would like 
>to know how close an Evolver can come to a Sherman 2.
>My guess is they are totally different and the Sherman is much better 
>as filterbank.(and sound better)

You're right. I have both and the Sherman offers way more options - a
lot depends on what you want to do. The basic Evolver filter character
is far smoother than the Sherman (which doesn't really like to do
smooth) plus the various ways to add distortion on the Evolver always
sound plain nasty to me. The Sherman distortion sounds musical - and
of course it has loads of knobs etc. 
That said, I do use the Evolver as a filter unit - together with my
Prophecy the two make a great monosynth. You should probably hear the
Sherman in action as its sound will not appeal to everyone. For
example, check out www.bogusfocus.com/jic/music.htm and take the "demo
exerpts" link to hear track Tribal High - the drums are a Korg
electribe processed (screwed up) by the Sherman. 

Paul
---
Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk
          Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com

Filters are a essential ingredient in my sound. 
I agree that using the Evolver as a filter unit can be tricky,  finding the sweet spot 
in the parameter space (env follower, input level, etc...) is difficult... When i play live I use 
a simple Ibanez AF9 multimode filter pedal to filter percusive sounds. It is amazing. 
 
Don't forget to check that you really need all of the Sherman's features. 
There exists a lot nice sounding analog filter units which are much cheaper:  
You can get a used MAM Warp9, or MAM RS03, or Waldorf 4poles for less 
than 100 Euros (completely different sounding beasts).  
I know that Paul Perry, Moog, and others also produce 
true analog standalone filters that should be of interest.  
 
In addition to my AF9, I keep the following "filter bank": Boss FT2, Boss T-Wah, DOD 
envelope filter, Coron autofilter. Keep in mind that guitar pedals are a cheap way to get a 
different sound. 
 
Emmanuel. 
 
--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Paul Nagle <paul@s...> wrote: 

> On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:56:54 -0000, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote: 
>  
> >Hi, 
> > 
> >Evolver is great as synth but does anyone use it as filterbank? 
> >I'm planning on buying a Sherman 2 and I own an Evolver. 
> >Just to be sure I'm not buying something I already have I would like  
> >to know how close an Evolver can come to a Sherman 2. 
> >My guess is they are totally different and the Sherman is much better  
> >as filterbank.(and sound better) 
>  
> You're right. I have both and the Sherman offers way more options - a 
> lot depends on what you want to do. The basic Evolver filter character 
> is far smoother than the Sherman (which doesn't really like to do 
> smooth) plus the various ways to add distortion on the Evolver always 
> sound plain nasty to me. The Sherman distortion sounds musical - and 
> of course it has loads of knobs etc.  
> That said, I do use the Evolver as a filter unit - together with my 
> Prophecy the two make a great monosynth. You should probably hear the 
> Sherman in action as its sound will not appeal to everyone. For 
> example, check out www.bogusfocus.com/jic/music.htm and take the "demo 
> exerpts" link to hear track Tribal High - the drums are a Korg 
> electribe processed (screwed up) by the Sherman.  
>  
> Paul 
> --- 
> Paul Nagle - SoftRoom Music - www.softroom.co.uk 
>           Bogus Focus Records - www.BogusFocus.com

I had a sherman and never could get what I wanted with it:
It is pretty strange, it is one of the rare unit I just could not do
anything with..
I kept the sticker sheet tho :)

> You're right. I have both and the Sherman offers way more options - a
> lot depends on what you want to do. The basic Evolver filter character
> is far smoother than the Sherman (which doesn't really like to do
> smooth) plus the various ways to add distortion on the Evolver always
> sound plain nasty to me. The Sherman distortion sounds musical - and
> of course it has loads of knobs etc.
> That said, I do use the Evolver as a filter unit - together with my
> Prophecy the two make a great monosynth. You should probably hear the
> Sherman in action as its sound will not appeal to everyone. For
> example, check out www.bogusfocus.com/jic/music.htm and take the "demo
> exerpts" link to hear track Tribal High - the drums are a Korg
> electribe processed (screwed up) by the Sherman.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "spectralsequence" 
<spectralsequence@c...> wrote:
> Filters are a essential ingredient in my sound. 
> I agree that using the Evolver as a filter unit can be tricky,  
finding the sweet spot 
> Don't forget to check that you really need all of the Sherman's 
features. 

I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off 
possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The Sherman 
is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter 
around. I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's 
so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.

Thanx, Ronald.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "M-.-n" <nostromo@a...> wrote:
> I had a sherman and never could get what I wanted with it:

PS.
I'm a very big fan of Front242 and I know they use one on their 
latest album. There are a lot of mangled sounds on it wich to me 
sound very interesting so I guess they use it a lot.

Ronald.

i owned a sherman 2 for a few month - but it was always to dirty for 
mee. when you want do distort your sound it is the best thing around. 
and you´ll get a lot of features like fm,am.. . but when you want to 
use it for filtering sounds without distortion - you should maybee 
check out another filter ? do you know the "quad" from "tidal"? thats 
maybee a nice one..
[phono] 



--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "spectralsequence" 
> <spectralsequence@c...> wrote:
> > Filters are a essential ingredient in my sound. 
> > I agree that using the Evolver as a filter unit can be tricky,  
> finding the sweet spot 
> > Don't forget to check that you really need all of the Sherman's 
> features. 
> 
> I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off 
> possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The 
Sherman 

> is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter 
> around. I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's 
> so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.
> 
> Thanx, Ronald.

I prever the Akai MFC42. (very cheap at the moment). Also the
Moogerfooger 101 should be good filter toy. 
I do not want say something against the sherman, but i think it is bit
overweighted. 
Vermona got also a lot of nice stuff.
Stefan

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "phonophobie" <sidstation@h...> wrote:

> i owned a sherman 2 for a few month - but it was always to dirty for 
> mee. when you want do distort your sound it is the best thing around. 
> and you´ll get a lot of features like fm,am.. . but when you want to 
> use it for filtering sounds without distortion - you should maybee 
> check out another filter ? do you know the "quad" from "tidal"? thats 
> maybee a nice one..
> [phono] 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "spectralsequence" 
> > <spectralsequence@c...> wrote:
> > > Filters are a essential ingredient in my sound. 
> > > I agree that using the Evolver as a filter unit can be tricky,  
> > finding the sweet spot 
> > > Don't forget to check that you really need all of the Sherman's 
> > features. 
> > 
> > I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off 
> > possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The 
> Sherman 
> > is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter 
> > around. I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's 
> > so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.
> > 
> > Thanx, Ronald.

>I prever the Akai MFC42. (very cheap at the moment). 

Seconded.  Very useable, very cheap.  In the uk digital village are knocking them out
for 150 GBP.  I’ve used it on the evo a bit, great for resonant hi pass sweeps. 1
mono, 1 stereo channel, multi-mode, several slopes, syncable LFO, or envelope plus
distortion & phaser, everything is midi controllable, and all the knobs send midi too
- I’ve been using it a lot on soft synths to add body and *BITE*.  Fits into a mix
well (for me).  But, as always, listen first!  

If I sound like an ad it’s not because I’m akai!  Mines in for repair (under warranty)
and is going to take up to 3 months.  Hows that for service?

z.

If you are looking for a complex instrument, you can check MAM Warp 9. 
It has very complex modulation possibilities, it is essentially 
a monosynth without osc's.  It has a very special sound. 
It is usually much cheaper than the Akai filter, even at blow-out prices. 
 
Waldorf 4poles also provides a lot of possibilites. 
 
Emmanuel. 

> I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off  
> possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The Sherman  
> is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter  
> around. I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's  
> so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions. 
>  
> Thanx, Ronald.

The Sherman rough? Not necessarely... but you gotta know where
to get your sounds :)

It took me more than a year to get used to the unit, and find
the sweet spots. I kept on trying, as I have a friend who also
has one (which sounds completely different by the way!), and he
managed to do very subtle stuff with it.

Now, I can't part with the beast anymore, it's one of those
magical machines that will make your sound come alive, organic,
or whatever description you want to stick to it!

I also use the Evolver as a filterbank, it can't do half of the
stuff that the Sherman does, but it can do other stuff: synced
delays, synced LFO's, stereo processing, triple envelope, 
sequenced filtering to name a few.

My tip: Get (and keep) them both! 
Remark: The Evolver is more instantly rewarding than the Sherman, with
the Evolver it's just easier to make a sound that sticks in your mix,
while the Sherman might seem to do the same sort of thing all over...
and that thing won't necessarely fit to your mix/style.

Persist with the Sherman though!

Greetz.

Ballonic

From: "Roonan" <info@...>

> I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off
> possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The Sherman
> is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter
> around.

It's a weird unit..... I found that the sherman, despite having a whole lot
of features, really only does the dirty mangled filter thing. so while
technically it has lots of different options, it always sounds kinda the
same.

the electrix filter factory is another option, but it always sounds clean
and nice.... even with the distortion on. but as a result, it's really good
for running a whole mix through, if that's what you want.....

My friend grabbed an akai MFC42 off ebay the other day, so I guess I'll get
to hear that soon. looking forward to hearing what it can do.

guitar pedals are cool too. I have a maxxon knockoff of the ibaez AF9, and I
have a DOD envelope filter, and I have an EH bassballs reissue, and as was
already said - they're really cool for percussion sounds (plus bassballs is
good for kicks and bass synths!) but not the whole mix. Guitar FX tend to
have very limited bandwidth!

> I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's
> so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.
>
well, if you like the sound, then that's the main thing.

The evolver has a cool feature in that you can sequence a looping filter
pattern, and then sync that to MIDI, giving you some great modulation
possibilities you'd never get with just an LFO.

Maybe get the filterbank and run it inline with the evolver??




julian

I've got an MCF42, and I love it.  It's anonymous and gentle, until you 
start messing with the distortion -- as things should be in my book.  
It has this 8-pole mono-only feature that sounds so, so good...  I 
highly recommend it.

Waldorf's filters sound good to me too.  I only have the Miniworks 
4-pole... but I like it.  It's a tad quirky.

On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 04:35 PM, mr julian wrote:

>
> From: "Roonan" <info@...>
>
> > I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off
> > possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The Sherman
> > is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter
> > around.
>
> It's a weird unit..... I found that the sherman, despite having a 
> whole lot
> of features, really only does the dirty mangled filter thing. so while
> technically it has lots of different options, it always sounds kinda 
> the
> same.
>
> the electrix filter factory is another option, but it always sounds 
> clean
> and nice.... even with the distortion on. but as a result, it's really 
> good
> for running a whole mix through, if that's what you want.....
>
> My friend grabbed an akai MFC42 off ebay the other day, so I guess 
> I'll get
> to hear that soon. looking forward to hearing what it can do.
>
> guitar pedals are cool too. I have a maxxon knockoff of the ibaez AF9, 
> and I
> have a DOD envelope filter, and I have an EH bassballs reissue, and as 
> was
> already said - they're really cool for percussion sounds (plus 
> bassballs is
> good for kicks and bass synths!) but not the whole mix. Guitar FX tend 
> to
> have very limited bandwidth!
>
> > I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's
> > so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.
> >
> well, if you like the sound, then that's the main thing.
>
> The evolver has a cool feature in that you can sequence a looping 
> filter
> pattern, and then sync that to MIDI, giving you some great modulation
> possibilities you'd never get with just an LFO.
>
> Maybe get the filterbank and run it inline with the evolver??
>
>
>
>
> julian
>
>
>
<image.tiff>

>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> PS.
> I'm a very big fan of Front242 and I know they use one on their 
> latest album. There are a lot of mangled sounds on it wich to me 
> sound very interesting so I guess they use it a lot.

Ronald,
I've heard some great reviews of the Frostwave Resonator.  It's a very
simple analog filter pedal with low/high pass filters and CV inputs,
etc.  It's modeled after the Korg MS-20's filter.  They're pretty
cheap as well (about $240 in the US).  And I saw that Front242 uses
one, so I thought I'd let you know.  Check here for more details:
http://frostwave.com/theresonator/index.html

I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying the Sherman, by the way. 
In fact, I'd like to thank you for bringing this topic up; the
information everyone's contributed is very helpful. (And thanks to all
for contributing it :-)  

Joe.

Thanks everyone, I guess filters come in a lot of flavours.
It's getting harder to make a choice.
I still prefer the Sherman but I the idea of getting the same results 
over and over makes me hesitate. For me the sound is still the most 
important thing in this matter, synced (stereo) filter sweeps is 
something the Evolver can do very well too so I'm not looking for 
that. I want to use it Live and to resample all kinds of stuff to 
create new interesting sounds. And from what I've heard the Sherman 
has the best sounding filters around. I also heard the version 2 has 
some features to let it sound smooth if you want.

Ronald.

--- Joe <jmelnyk@...> wrote: 

<<<I've heard some great reviews of the Frostwave
Resonator. <snip> I'm not trying to dissuade you from
buying the Sherman, by the way>>>

I own both. both are great. I do tend to graviate more
toward the Sherman for grittier sounding things, since
it does that so well and with ease. there are about a
million different ways to overdrive the thing. I have
a FB2 and, in all honesty, if there's a way to get a
smooth sounding sweep out of the thing, I've yet to
find it... BUT, that is why I also have other filters,
such as the Frostwave Resonator... and the MAM RS-3
resonator... and the Evolver :-)

in fact, I am entertaining the idea of getting a
Modcan panel so I can have a few more filters - namely
the Lowpass/Moog one, the CEM one, the 4075 from
Modcan; and the Synthacon, Quad Low Pass and Quad Band
Pass from Cynthia :-)

that's a while from now though, but still, an
entertaining thought. you can never have enough
filters :-)

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

being as we're doing the subject to death - maybe consider the Mutronics
Mutator, it has synced stereo LFOs its the most hifi filter I've ever heard,
extraordinarily rich and creamy, probably u can't get much more opposite to
the Sherman but its an amazing piece

I'm a filter nut too, the Mutator, Akai MFC42, Filterqueen and EH Qtron all
find a regular place in my studio.... somehow using synths as external audio
processors never seems to quite do it for me

must check out those MAM things....

Richard

----- Original Message -----

From: "Roonan" <info@...>never
To: <DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Evolver as Filterbank?


> Thanks everyone, I guess filters come in a lot of flavours.
> It's getting harder to make a choice.
> I still prefer the Sherman but I the idea of getting the same results
> over and over makes me hesitate. For me the sound is still the most
> important thing in this matter, synced (stereo) filter sweeps is
> something the Evolver can do very well too so I'm not looking for
> that. I want to use it Live and to resample all kinds of stuff to
> create new interesting sounds. And from what I've heard the Sherman
> has the best sounding filters around. I also heard the version 2 has
> some features to let it sound smooth if you want.
>
> Ronald.
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DSI_Evolver-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Damon Menne

To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:52 AM

Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Evolver as Filterbank?

I've got an MCF42, and I love it. It's anonymous and gentle, until you start messing with the distortion -- as things should be in my book. It has this 8-pole mono-only feature that sounds so, so good... I highly recommend it.

Waldorf's filters sound good to me too. I only have the Miniworks 4-pole... but I like it. It's a tad quirky.

the Nord MicroModular can serve as a nice, cheap stereo
filterbank...among many other things! ;)


cheers,
aeon

A poet? Naw... I anthropomorphize my music machines to unhealthy 
extremes... that's all.

The 8-pole is a great leash for the more insane analog gear... it just 
attenuates in much more extreme way.  I've got a Future Retro 777, 
which is a hopped-up almost-a-tb303... many things you can push it to 
do are flat out useless without some external management like this... 
48db/octave, it's just a more extreme way of filtering things.

On Nov 20, 2003, at 4:59 PM, Richard wrote:

> "It's anonymous and gentle" what a lovely way to describe a filter,
>  
> sir you are a poet!
>  
> what have u used the 8 pole for BTW?
>  
> Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Damon Menne
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Sent:Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:52 AM
> Subject:Re: [Evolver] Re: Evolver as Filterbank?
>
> I've got an MCF42, and I love it. It's anonymous and gentle, until you 
> start messing with the distortion -- as things should be in my book. 
> It has this 8-pole mono-only feature that sounds so, so good... I 
> highly recommend it.
>
> Waldorf's filters sound good to me too. I only have the Miniworks 
> 4-pole... but I like it. It's a tad quirky.
>
> On Wednesday, November 19, 2003, at 04:35 PM, mr julian wrote:
>
>
>
> From: "Roonan" <info@roonan.nl>
>
> > I'm not looking for just a filter, I like gear with a lot off
> > possibilities so I won't get bored with it after a while. The Sherman
> > is expensive but as far as I know it's the most versatile Filter
> > around.
>
> It's a weird unit..... I found that the sherman, despite having a 
> whole lot
> of features, really only does the dirty mangled filter thing. so while
> technically it has lots of different options, it always sounds kinda 
> the
> same.
>
> the electrix filter factory is another option, but it always sounds 
> clean
> and nice.... even with the distortion on. but as a result, it's really 
> good
> for running a whole mix through, if that's what you want.....
>
> My friend grabbed an akai MFC42 off ebay the other day, so I guess 
> I'll get
> to hear that soon. looking forward to hearing what it can do.
>
> guitar pedals are cool too. I have a maxxon knockoff of the ibaez AF9, 
> and I
> have a DOD envelope filter, and I have an EH bassballs reissue, and as 
> was
> already said - they're really cool for percussion sounds (plus 
> bassballs is
> good for kicks and bass synths!) but not the whole mix. Guitar FX tend 
> to
> have very limited bandwidth!
>
> > I'm already very interested in it since I heard some demo's
> > so I only needed confirmation on my assumptions.
> >
> well, if you like the sound, then that's the main thing.
>
> The evolver has a cool feature in that you can sequence a looping 
> filter
> pattern, and then sync that to MIDI, giving you some great modulation
> possibilities you'd never get with just an LFO.
>
> Maybe get the filterbank and run it inline with the evolver??
>
>
>
>
> julian
>
>
>
> <image.tiff>
>
>
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Thanks everyone, guess this list is not dead afterall.
I made my choice, I'm going for the Sherman.
It's got a mind of its own and does add something to the input.
It can make dull sounds alive not just filtered.
The others are very usable too but they all are somewhat close to the 
Evolver wich I already own.
I'll post some samples when I've mastered it. (can take a while ;-)

Ronald.

And thanks from me as well for this thread - I ended up ordering 
Frostwave one last night.  Funny that this thread came up as I just 
received my paycheck :-)

High resonance setting seem to be a bit different on this unit from the 
demo on the site, which I liked a lot.  It almost sounds like the 
filter sound I've heard on Primal Scream's Exterminator album...

I kinda wish Evolver's LFOs & env could be sent externally as CV now...


-Yutaka

On vendredi, nov 21, 2003, at 09:21 Europe/Paris, Roonan wrote:

> Thanks everyone, guess this list is not dead afterall.
> I made my choice, I'm going for the Sherman.
> It's got a mind of its own and does add something to the input.
> It can make dull sounds alive not just filtered.
> The others are very usable too but they all are somewhat close to the
> Evolver wich I already own.
> I'll post some samples when I've mastered it. (can take a while ;-)
>
> Ronald.

. 
> The others are very usable too but they all are somewhat close to the  
> Evolver wich I already own. 
 
No, I don't think so. Each analog filter has its own sound! 
I am picky, for similar reason I keep 5 spring reverbs and 6 analog delays... 
The sherman is a very professional choice, a quality machine 
that will keep its value for years. Not a bad choice if you have the money! 
 
Emmanuel.

> No, I don't think so. Each analog filter has its own sound! 
> I am picky, for similar reason I keep 5 spring reverbs and 6 
analog delays... 

I guess you are :-)
I didn't mean all the filters sound the same btw, it was more about 
features and exclusive results.

> The sherman is a very professional choice, a quality machine 
> that will keep its value for years. Not a bad choice if you have 
the money! 

I've bought (and sold again) a lot of different gear and now I know 
you'll have to pay for high quality and exclusive sound. 


Ronald.

Perhaps the new Macbeth Morraco would be a good choice?

http://www.novamusik.com/search.asp?type=Manufacturer&page=1&keyword=32

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "ciscomanvann" 
<ciscomanvann@y...> wrote:
> Perhaps the new Macbeth Morraco would be a good choice?

Hmmm, now you tell me! I just bought a Sherman.
No, I'm very happy with Sherman, it's a complete different design 
with more extreme results but this looks very interesting too!

Ronald.

This looks a little more tame and, all of the knobs are supposed to be
midi which I am told the midi implementation on the sherman is a bit
broken. I just like how straight forward this is. Would look real nice
in my desk.