AVR-Chat

Well.    Have spoken on phone with an Atmel FAE.   No joy.   My
email to AVR@ATMEL.COM Yielded a useless "no one here uses VIsta, so
we know nothing about this" response.

  I have even tried setting AVRStudio into "compatibility mode" for
Win2K and XP SP2.    *STILL* no joy!

  In XP compatibility mode, the first external .asm file I reference
gets read in, but all the rest (which are in the same subdirectory
under my project dir) get the same "cannot be found" error.

  It is *NOT* a pathname issue, nor is it a filename spelling issue. 
 AVRStudio is BROKEN under Vista.

  In the meantime, the one opportunity I have had this year to earn
some money is now dead, because I can make no further progress on this
program, thanks to Mickey$hit and Vista.

  And Atmel, who refuses to make AVRStudio linux compatible.  )-:

  Also, don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org.  WShat a bunch of ninnies
and morons.   I ***EXPLICITLY*** point out that using external files
isn;t WORKING, so what do **FIVE** separate posters tell me to do? 
USE EXTERNAL FILES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
   ***ARGH***

avrFreak

    So damned frustrated at this point I may just go back to Z-80s!

If you can't live with AVR Studio, there are other IDEs for the AVR
that have JTAG/Debugging/flashing built in. Mostly C-oriented though.
Crossworks is a candidate as I think they have their own AVR assembler
and linker used with their C compiler.

I have used Studio for years, just as a simple IDE for C and ASM and
flashing. Never had any problems. This is with XP.



--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "David VanHorn" <microbrix@...> wrote:

>
> >  But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
> >  with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
> >  Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
> >  that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
> >  what.
> 
> Well, I have also had my fill of irrational problems with studio.
> I've never experienced what he's talking about, but then again a lot
> of my problems with studio are unique to me (according to atmel) and I
> don't run Vista, so I can't really try to induce such a problem.
> 
> In my case, the frustration with atmel has led to a company decision
> to disqualify the AVR line, and move to ARM, where there is a
> multiplicity of vendors offering toolsets, and processors.  In fact,
> I've become a little frustrated because there are so MANY choices.. :)
> 
> The problems with studio are a long enduring, and expensive mystery to
> me.  But I simply can't afford them professionally. Perhaps, with
> time, things will improve.
>

At 02:23 AM 13/04/2008, you wrote:
>   Also, don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org.  WShat a bunch of ninnies
>and morons.

As one of those ninnies and morons that try to help
there I will try and remember both your screen names
for future "non use".

I could tell you to try the new Studio 4.14
but I won't, perhaps it still won't do what you
want to do and you get even angrier.

But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
what.


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

At 08:15 AM 4/13/2008 +1000, John Samperi wrote:
>But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
>with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
>Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
>that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
>what.

He's using Vista.  That may be as wrong as you can get ;)

Some of the new security items Vista introduced are good things although 
they break a lot of software.  The reason they are necessary though are 
because everybody ignored NT's security provisions to begin with.  Of 
course Microsoft Office was a key culprit in that.

Robert

Another sign of the end of civilization, our technical magazines are 
getting chatty
 From an EETimes product descriptions 2006/08/09
".... systems that can sample gobs of inputs simultaneously"
Now just what is the technical definition for gobs again?
http://www.aeolusdevelopment.com/

John Samperi wrote:
> At 02:23 AM 13/04/2008, you wrote:
>>   Also, don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org.  WShat a bunch of ninnies
>> and morons.
> 
> As one of those ninnies and morons that try to help
> there I will try and remember both your screen names
> for future "non use".
> 
> I could tell you to try the new Studio 4.14
> but I won't, perhaps it still won't do what you
> want to do and you get even angrier.
> 
> But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
> with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
> Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
> that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
> what.

John,

   Like using Windows Vista?

DLC

> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

>  But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
>  with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
>  Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
>  that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
>  what.

Well, I have also had my fill of irrational problems with studio.
I've never experienced what he's talking about, but then again a lot
of my problems with studio are unique to me (according to atmel) and I
don't run Vista, so I can't really try to induce such a problem.

In my case, the frustration with atmel has led to a company decision
to disqualify the AVR line, and move to ARM, where there is a
multiplicity of vendors offering toolsets, and processors.  In fact,
I've become a little frustrated because there are so MANY choices.. :)

The problems with studio are a long enduring, and expensive mystery to
me.  But I simply can't afford them professionally. Perhaps, with
time, things will improve.

On Apr 12, 2008, at 5:57 PM, dlc wrote:

>> But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
>> with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
>> Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
>> that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
>> what.
>
> John,
>
>   Like using Windows Vista?

Clearly what is needed here is a Macintosh port.  :-)

Then Atmel can do what Microsoft did with Office, once they have it  
running on a stable platform they can port to the unstable while  
fixing the unstable platform's bugs.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 7:33 PM, stevech11 <stevech@san.rr.com> wrote:
> If you can't live with AVR Studio, there are other IDEs for the AVR
>  that have JTAG/Debugging/flashing built in. Mostly C-oriented though.

Since I work in ASM, that's of very limited use.

>  Crossworks is a candidate as I think they have their own AVR assembler
>  and linker used with their C compiler.

Yup, I tried them.  They told me that their assembler is strictly
there to work with their C compiler, and every time I asked them a
question about yet another poorly or completely undocumented part of
the assembler, they repeated that.. I really got the impression that
they wanted me to use C.

>  I have used Studio for years, just as a simple IDE for C and ASM and
>  flashing. Never had any problems. This is with XP.

I used it for a lot of years with no trouble at all, and did a lot of
good work. Then something changed.   See discussions of a couple
months ago.

When you can't have something this simple work:

ldi R16,3 ;Post instruction, R16 still contains 0


Then there's something VERY wrong...

Re the below... let me guess that the register definitions files in
use are not the ones for the AVR chip that is the target, or R16 has
been redefined.

This has to be cockpit trouble; it's too basic.

can you post the source for a minimal example of the problem?

> When you can't have something this simple work:
> 
> ldi R16,3 ;Post instruction, R16 still contains 0
> 
> 
> Then there's something VERY wrong...
>

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote:
>
> At 02:23 AM 13/04/2008, you wrote:
> >   Also, don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org.  WShat a bunch of ninnies
> >and morons.
> 
> As one of those ninnies and morons that try to help
> there I will try and remember both your screen names
> for future "non use".
> 
> I could tell you to try the new Studio 4.14
> but I won't, perhaps it still won't do what you
> want to do and you get even angrier.
> 
> But, as I never had any problem like yours, either
> with Studio 3.xx or 4.xx, both under Win 98 and
> Win XP pro in the past 8 years I >> COULD << conclude
> that you are doing something wrong. But then I can't see
> what.


     *I* have never seen this problem, therefore it doesn't exist?

     From some teenaged nincompoop on an IRC channel I expect this
kind of stupid arrogance.  Frankly, from John Samperi, I am *SHOCKED*.


   Get it straight, John:  I ****EXPLICITLY**** pointed out that the
problem I was having was with user generated .includes.  So what do
*5* of the 8 pists I get in response suggest?  **USING USER GENERATED
.INCLUDES*

   Yours was not amopng that group of 5, John.   I find it quite odd
that you should assume I meant you.

avrFreak

(P.S.  www.avrFreaks.org is also poorly organized, poorly maintained,
and highky variable in terms of trustworthiness)

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:31 AM, stevech11 <stevech@san.rr.com> wrote:
> Re the below... let me guess that the register definitions files in
>  use are not the ones for the AVR chip that is the target, or R16 has
>  been redefined.
>
>  This has to be cockpit trouble; it's too basic.


No, this is code that I'd been working on for quite a while.  Studio
works well when it wants to, and when it dosen't, then very odd things
happen.

I've had this sort of trouble for years, surviving many computers, OS
installs, versions of OS, Studio, etc etc etc.
Others have problems like this too, but we aren't the majority of
studio users, and apparently Atmel finds us relatively easy to ignore.

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "steamphreaque" <tjkeller@...> wrote:

> ... No joy ... *STILL* no joy! ...
> ... AVRStudio is BROKEN under Vista.
> ... opportunity ... to earn some money is now dead ...
> ... Atmel ... refuses to make AVRStudio linux compatible
> ... don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org
> ... So damned frustrated ...

Can we start this thread again?  The OP is obviously not in a calm 
state of mind.  Can we put aside the personal comments and see if 
there are any worthwhile issues to discuss?

Does it make sense to use Vista for mission-critical work?

Just how evil is Atmel for not supporting Linux, given how many AVR 
developers are perfectly happy with other tools under Linux?

Is AVRfreaks unique in that many respondents don't take the time to 
fully understand the OP's question?

Graham.

Too much Red Bull, guys?



--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Davies" <Yahoo37849@...> wrote:

>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "steamphreaque" <tjkeller@> wrote:
> 
> > ... No joy ... *STILL* no joy! ...
> > ... AVRStudio is BROKEN under Vista.
> > ... opportunity ... to earn some money is now dead ...
> > ... Atmel ... refuses to make AVRStudio linux compatible
> > ... don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org
> > ... So damned frustrated ...
> 
> Can we start this thread again?  The OP is obviously not in a calm 
> state of mind.  Can we put aside the personal comments and see if 
> there are any worthwhile issues to discuss?
> 
> Does it make sense to use Vista for mission-critical work?
> 
> Just how evil is Atmel for not supporting Linux, given how many AVR 
> developers are perfectly happy with other tools under Linux?
> 
> Is AVRfreaks unique in that many respondents don't take the time to 
> fully understand the OP's question?
> 
> Graham.
>

Either that or not enough of that California Hippy Juice, the stuff they 
distill from grapes that they've fermented into champagne.


REB


stevech11 wrote:
> Too much Red Bull, guys?
>
>
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Davies" <Yahoo37849@...> wrote:
>   
>> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "steamphreaque" <tjkeller@> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> ... No joy ... *STILL* no joy! ...
>>> ... AVRStudio is BROKEN under Vista.
>>> ... opportunity ... to earn some money is now dead ...
>>> ... Atmel ... refuses to make AVRStudio linux compatible
>>> ... don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org
>>> ... So damned frustrated ...
>>>       
>> Can we start this thread again?  The OP is obviously not in a calm 
>> state of mind.  Can we put aside the personal comments and see if 
>> there are any worthwhile issues to discuss?
>>
>> Does it make sense to use Vista for mission-critical work?
>>
>> Just how evil is Atmel for not supporting Linux, given how many AVR 
>> developers are perfectly happy with other tools under Linux?
>>
>> Is AVRfreaks unique in that many respondents don't take the time to 
>> fully understand the OP's question?
>>
>> Graham.
>>
>>     
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 12:42 AM 14/04/2008, you wrote:
>Just how evil is Atmel for not supporting Linux,

To the extreme I think!! They are not even supporting Win95
or any of the earlier versions like Win3.11 or 2 or 1 or
DOS for that matter.

So all those people wanting to use those O/S should abandon
Atmel en-masse, that will teach them for sticking to the 80-20
rule..or is it the 99.9-0.1 rule in this case??

Many people seem to be using Vista at the ninnie.org site, they
have had/have issues, there are continuing improvements both with
Studio and winAvr to work better with the "Evil Empire's" new
weapon of mass destruction.

Is it a Studio problem? Is it a Vista problem?? Is there anything
Atmel can do to fix any problem until the "Evil Empire" releases a fix?
Who knows. (I'm hoping Atmel read this and offer me a job by the way)

As I EXPECT problems with any software, I try to stay a little behind,
have other eager suckers find the bugs for me....at times I have been
an eager sucker too and have paid the consequences.




Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

At 02:42 PM 4/13/2008 +0000, Graham Davies wrote:
>--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "steamphreaque" <tjkeller@...> wrote:
>
> > ... No joy ... *STILL* no joy! ...
> > ... AVRStudio is BROKEN under Vista.
> > ... opportunity ... to earn some money is now dead ...
> > ... Atmel ... refuses to make AVRStudio linux compatible
> > ... don't bother with www.avrfreaks.org
> > ... So damned frustrated ...
>
>Can we start this thread again?  The OP is obviously not in a calm
>state of mind.  Can we put aside the personal comments and see if
>there are any worthwhile issues to discuss?
>
>Does it make sense to use Vista for mission-critical work?

Probably not yet.

On a more practical note to the OP.  Have you turned off UAC?  It's one of 
the new security features and it prevents an application from writing to 
its installation directory.  This refusal is transparent, the application 
thinks it has succeeded.

Yes, that should never have been done but, Microsoft encouraged it by doing 
it themselves.

Robert

http://www.aeolusdevelopment.com/

 From the Divided by a Common Language File (Edited to protect the guilty)
ME - "I'd like to get Price and delivery for connector Part # XXXXX"
Dist./Rep - "$X.XX Lead time 37 days"
ME - "Anything we can do about lead time?  37 days seems a bit high."
Dist./Rep - "that is the lead time given because our stock is live.... we 
currently have stock."

Lets not forget the Macintosh environment - Which for AVR is really only 
Eclipse (Europa).

DLC

John Samperi wrote:
> At 12:42 AM 14/04/2008, you wrote:
>> Just how evil is Atmel for not supporting Linux,
> 
> To the extreme I think!! They are not even supporting Win95
> or any of the earlier versions like Win3.11 or 2 or 1 or
> DOS for that matter.
> 
> So all those people wanting to use those O/S should abandon
> Atmel en-masse, that will teach them for sticking to the 80-20
> rule..or is it the 99.9-0.1 rule in this case??
> 
> Many people seem to be using Vista at the ninnie.org site, they
> have had/have issues, there are continuing improvements both with
> Studio and winAvr to work better with the "Evil Empire's" new
> weapon of mass destruction.
> 
> Is it a Studio problem? Is it a Vista problem?? Is there anything
> Atmel can do to fix any problem until the "Evil Empire" releases a fix?
> Who knows. (I'm hoping Atmel read this and offer me a job by the way)
> 
> As I EXPECT problems with any software, I try to stay a little behind,
> have other eager suckers find the bugs for me....at times I have been
> an eager sucker too and have paid the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------