Atari-Midi Archives

From: "duh! isnt it obvious???" <wayne2222002@...>
To: <atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: [atari-midi-archives] Hey guys, Looking for some Hardware


> Hey all good to see a Yahoo group for us Atari MIDI users.  I have 
> Notator SL with a Unitor 2.  Was curious if anyone has/or can point me 
> in the direction of someone who is willing to sell their Emagic Log3.  
> I'm hooking up my synth rack and could use some more MIDI I/O.  Any 
> help would be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Hey all good to see a Yahoo group for us Atari MIDI users. I have
Notator SL with a Unitor 2. Was curious if anyone has/or can point me
in the direction of someone who is willing to sell their Emagic Log3.
I'm hooking up my synth rack and could use some more MIDI I/O. Any
help would be much appreciated.

>
> Let's see, I have a few good gems in my synth rack.
> 
> Akai S6000
> Korg M1R
> Yamaha TX802
> E-Mu Proteus MPS
> Alesis D4 and DMPro
> ,,and trying to nab a Kurzweil K2000
> 
> I know all those have Thru.  I'm at the moment looking for a few 
> more Outs and Ins for future purchases to get some massive sounds 
> for a couple of studio projects I'm working on.
> 
> I know the C-Lab Export has MIDI timing issues through the C and D 
> outs so that's why I was looking for a Log3 since it bypasses (or 
> reroutes BCD to ghi)  And with all my synth gear, I know I'll run 
> out of channels eventually.
> 
> The Unitor is awesome btw.  I've been using the sync to clock into 
> ProTools and it works like a charm.  
> 
> If you guys see a Log3 let me know though.
> 
> W
>

----- Original Message -----

From: PeWe

To: atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 7:05 AM

Subject: Re: [atari-midi-archives] Re: Hey guys, Looking for some Hardware

Hi !

>>>


duh! isnt it obvious??? schrieb:
>
> Let's see, I have a few good gems in my synth rack.
>
> Akai S6000

4 Akai samplers here ...

> Korg M1R

M1Rex here

> Yamaha TX802

DX7mkIIFD, TG77, TG 500 and TX816 here

> E-Mu Proteus MPS

EMU ProteusFX here

> Alesis D4 and DMPro

Alesis SR16 and Roland R8 as also a customized and midied EMU Drumulator here

> ,,and trying to nab a Kurzweil K2000
>
> I know all those have Thru.

A midi thru box behaves competely different than a midi-thru conecctor on the synths/tone generators.
The midi thru connector of the synths adds latency, a qualitiy midi thru box not.

> I'm at the moment looking for a few
> more Outs and Ins

A LOG3 adds no MIDI-ins !
If you want to add midi ins and outs to your setup,- go for a used midi-matrix/processor and/or a combination from merger(s) and thru box(es) in addition.

> for future purchases to get some massive sounds
> for a couple of studio projects I'm working on.
>
> I know the C-Lab Export has MIDI timing issues through the C and D
> outs so that's why I was looking for a Log3 since it bypasses (or
> reroutes BCD to ghi)

That´s right, but the 1st out (B) of the Export has definitely no timing issues, C is usable for all the non percussive sounds and C is usable for slower attack pads and so on.
If you route your tracks of projects right having this in mind, you cann use the Export successfully.

> And with all my synth gear, I know I'll run
> out of channels eventually.

Eventually !?
If I see your rig above, it´s a very small one compared to mine ( sorry). I have 8 times more outboard gear in use.
I did large productions w/ only the AtariST4 A I/O and the UnitorN ( for NSL) plus an Export, using 4 patterns in parallel (ABCD) in NSLs arrange list. This is a max. of 64 midi tracks similar to 64 midi channels.
You transmit data of 64 midi channels via 4 midi ports,- ATARI A, Unitor E+F plus Export B and you´re fine.

With your setup above you don´t run out of midi channels,- you´ll run out of voices/polyphony available 1st.


> The Unitor is awesome btw. I've been using the sync to clock into
> ProTools and it works like a charm.

Confirmed. All the Unitors are great. I use Unitor N and Unitor2 as also the Export and a LOG3 and more...
Nothing beats Atari midi timing, this also in sync.


> If you guys see a Log3 let me know though.

I recommended the Export only because the LOG3 is hard to find.
I buyed the LOG3 together w/ a Unitor 2 for running Notator Logic 2.5 and NSL.
In most cases, if offered, you´d have to buy this package completely, a single LOG3 for sale is so rare you eventually have to wait month or years for.

With Notator Logic 2.5, you have more midi channels available as w/ NSL and you can use Unitor2, LOG3 and Export together!

Here´s a Notator Logic 2.5 incl. LOG3 available from a german dealer, see item #13 on this page...
http://www.atari-fachmarkt.de/Musik-Midi_c_3.html

EUR 100.- = USD 127.32 = GBP 85.94

prices for Export vary between 30-60.- EUR ...

>
> W

----- Original Message -----

From: PeWe

To: atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:01 AM

Subject: Re: [atari-midi-archives] Re: Hey guys, Looking for some Hardware

>>>

charles midi gfa pascal schrieb:
>
> WOW REALLY HOW MANY TRACKS PER SONG DOYOU HAVE ?

Oh,- that can be very different. Depends on the song itself.
You know, today I use also a PC based DAW w/ Cubase SX3, but have all my Atari stuff in addition, just because here are all my songs and arrangements fom the past in stock too,- mostly in Notator format.
A lot of ´em weren´t relased and include nice parts p.ex.,- so for me, it´s easier to use the Atari/Notator format instead importing midi files containing 16 tracks only per pattern and arrange/edit/requantize all this again in a modern DAW because of different resolution. I used always 1536ppq w/ Notator SL.
Too much work and wasted time.

Songs could be only a few midi tracks if there were many guitars and vocals in the front and if there were a drummer and/or percussionist available to record audio. I also don´t use all my midi outboard tone generators in every song.
But if I did complex arrangements alone, incl. all the drums, percussion and sometimes orchestral percussions in addition, the quantum of midi tracks rised fast.

I use(d) to have a separate track for each of the drum/percussion instruments and I use(d) to have a separate pattern of 16 midi channels for the orchestrations w/ 1 sampler in multi mode p.ex..
This makes it easier to record audio tracks one by one later because of better overview, easy muting tracks and better timing during audio record in sync w/a multi track recorder.

Some midi tracks are needed for separate midi controller lanes too,- you might listen to a kind of midi-mix during arranging incl. volume fades, pannings and so on and before you record anything.
This can cause some timing gliches if all is playing in realtime, so, if you start to record midi tracks to audio one by one, simply mute all not needed tracks and mute the controller lanes too, avoiding unwanted controller-events affecting the recording of your pure signal which has to be full volume throughout w/ no pannings because you do this in the audio mix later.

Rule:
Never change programs within a midi-track
Don´t insert CC-controllers in a midi track together w/ the midi-notes
Don´t change midi channels within a midi track.

Otherwise you aren´t able to copy patterns in the arrange list to only one pattern incl. rendered midi transpositions, velocity offsets and so on without getting cluttered program changes, transpositions, velocity jumps, volume an panning changes across the tracks resulting in a endless editing of these copied tracks during recording audio.

If you work w/ signature changes and timing offsets of patterns in the arrange list, it´s even more important to organize the miditracks and patterns right.

Good organization of tracks and controllers cost miditracks.

> WHAT TOS DO YOU USE TOO?

TOS 1.4 w/ ATari MegaST4
TOS 2.06 w/ Atari MegaSTE
Something in between ( the last one) for the 1040STEs

Today, the Mega ST4 and the 1040 STEs only run Steinberg Synthworks bankmanager/editor programs for the midi tone generators/keyboards, so I run Mega STE 4 w/ Unitor 2 and Log3, MegaST4 w/ Unitor N and Export and 1 1040 STe w/ a Midex.

>
> I GOT MY MIDEX WORKING AND BEEN USIG IT BUT THE ONLY SET BACK NOW IS SCREEN REDRAWS ARE A
> TOUGHY..THEY ARE SLOWER WITH THE MORE TRACKS I HAVE PER SONG.

I use Cubase Atari only in the case someone comes up w/ tracks created in Cubase Atari format ( this happened in the past).
I prefer Notator SL for the Atari platform, Notator is the tightest program w/ midi.
I use Notator Logic 2.5 to import Notator SL files/songs to change from pattern oriented sequence structure to a linear track based sequencer structure.
This makes it easier to import midi into any linear track based DAW.

I´m able to run all my midi outboard instruments ( 22 devices,- 30 if you count a TX816 as 8 DX7) some in mulitmode, w/ Notator SL, Unitor N (or Unitor 2), Export or Log3 and a Sycologic 16in/32 out midi matriss in realtime to DAT or any other stereo recorder without any timing issues at once.
Well, you need a lot of outboard FX and mixers for this, but I did this during the times I only recorded vocals and guitars to a 8-track recorder w/ the midi playback running into the mix in realtime.

Today w/ a DAW like Cubase on the PC, I can record all the tracks to harddisk, no question.
But it works like described above also and demonstrates the power of midi w/ Atari computers and Notator.
And I have still my 8- track tape recorder left here, running in SPMTE sync,- sometimes it´s also a great idea to route software instruments out of the DAW to the tape recorder and back to the DAW as audio,- makes a different sound.
>
> CHARLES

PeWe

> >>>
>
> charles midi gfa pascal schrieb:
> >
> > WOW REALLY HOW MANY TRACKS PER SONG DOYOU HAVE ?
>
> Oh,- that can be very different. Depends on the song itself.
> You know, today I use also a PC based DAW w/ Cubase SX3, but have all 
> my Atari stuff in addition, just because here are all my songs and 
> arrangements fom the past in stock too,- mostly in Notator format.
> A lot of \ufffdem weren\ufffdt relased and include nice parts p.ex.,- so for me, 
> it\ufffds easier to use the Atari/Notator format instead importing midi 
> files containing 16 tracks only per pattern and 
> arrange/edit/requantize all this again in a modern DAW because of 
> different resolution. I used always 1536ppq w/ Notator SL.
> Too much work and wasted time.
>
> Songs could be only a few midi tracks if there were many guitars and 
> vocals in the front and if there were a drummer and/or percussionist 
> available to record audio. I also don\ufffdt use all my midi outboard tone 
> generators in every song.
> But if I did complex arrangements alone, incl. all the drums, 
> percussion and sometimes orchestral percussions in addition, the 
> quantum of midi tracks rised fast.
>
> I use(d) to have a separate track for each of the drum/percussion 
> instruments and I use(d) to have a separate pattern of 16 midi 
> channels for the orchestrations w/ 1 sampler in multi mode p.ex..
> This makes it easier to record audio tracks one by one later because 
> of better overview, easy muting tracks and better timing during audio 
> record in sync w/a multi track recorder.
>
> Some midi tracks are needed for separate midi controller lanes too,- 
> you might listen to a kind of midi-mix during arranging incl. volume 
> fades, pannings and so on and before you record anything.
> This can cause some timing gliches if all is playing in realtime, so, 
> if you start to record midi tracks to audio one by one, simply mute 
> all not needed tracks and mute the controller lanes too, avoiding 
> unwanted controller-events affecting the recording of your pure signal 
> which has to be full volume throughout w/ no pannings because you do 
> this in the audio mix later.
>
> Rule:
> Never change programs within a midi-track
> Don\ufffdt insert CC-controllers in a midi track together w/ the midi-notes
> Don\ufffdt change midi channels within a midi track.
>
> Otherwise you aren\ufffdt able to copy patterns in the arrange list to only 
> one pattern incl. rendered midi transpositions, velocity offsets and 
> so on without getting cluttered program changes, transpositions, 
> velocity jumps, volume an panning changes across the tracks resulting 
> in a endless editing of these copied tracks during recording audio.
>
> If you work w/ signature changes and timing offsets of patterns in the 
> arrange list, it\ufffds even more important to organize the miditracks and 
> patterns right.
>
> Good organization of tracks and controllers cost miditracks.
>
> > WHAT TOS DO YOU USE TOO?
>
> TOS 1.4 w/ ATari MegaST4
> TOS 2.06 w/ Atari MegaSTE
> Something in between ( the last one) for the 1040STEs
>
> Today, the Mega ST4 and the 1040 STEs only run Steinberg Synthworks 
> bankmanager/editor programs for the midi tone generators/keyboards, so 
> I run Mega STE 4 w/ Unitor 2 and Log3, MegaST4 w/ Unitor N and Export 
> and 1 1040 STe w/ a Midex.
>
> >  
> > I GOT MY MIDEX WORKING AND BEEN USIG IT  BUT THE ONLY SET BACK NOW 
> IS SCREEN REDRAWS ARE A
> > TOUGHY..THEY ARE SLOWER WITH THE MORE TRACKS I HAVE PER SONG.
>
> I use Cubase Atari only in the case someone comes up w/ tracks created 
> in Cubase Atari format ( this happened in the past).
> I prefer Notator SL for the Atari platform, Notator is the tightest 
> program w/ midi.
> I use Notator Logic 2.5 to import Notator SL files/songs to change 
> from pattern oriented sequence structure to a linear track based 
> sequencer structure.
> This makes it easier to import midi into any linear track based DAW.
>
> I\ufffdm able to run all my midi outboard instruments ( 22 devices,- 30 if 
> you count a TX816 as 8 DX7) some in mulitmode, w/ Notator SL, Unitor N 
> (or Unitor 2), Export or Log3 and a Sycologic 16in/32 out midi matriss 
> in realtime to DAT or any other stereo recorder without any timing 
> issues at once.
> Well, you need a lot of outboard FX and mixers for this, but I did 
> this during the times I only recorded vocals and guitars to a 8-track 
> recorder w/ the midi playback running into the mix in realtime.
>
> Today w/ a DAW like Cubase on the PC, I can record all the tracks to 
> harddisk, no question.
> But it works like described above also and demonstrates the power of 
> midi w/ Atari computers and Notator.
> And I have still my 8- track tape recorder left here, running in SPMTE 
> sync,- sometimes it\ufffds also a great idea to route software instruments 
> out of the DAW to the tape recorder and back to the DAW as audio,- 
> makes a different sound.
> >  
> > CHARLES
>
> PeWe
>
>

From: "Dr.Ambient" <g.goebertus@...>
To: <atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [atari-midi-archives] Re: Hey guys, Looking for some Hardware


> Hi guys!
>
> This is all extremely interesting :-)..., but may I remind you that this
> site is just the atari-midi 'ARCHIVE'.
> Some years ago we needed some more yahoo diskspace, that's why.
>
> The big scene is at:  atari-midi@yahoogroups.com
> (That's were the fune is :-))
>
> Best,
> Dr A
>
> PeWe schreef:
> > >>>
> >
> > charles midi gfa pascal schrieb:
> > >
> > > WOW REALLY HOW MANY TRACKS PER SONG DOYOU HAVE ?
> >
> > Oh,- that can be very different. Depends on the song itself.
> > You know, today I use also a PC based DAW w/ Cubase SX3, but have all
> > my Atari stuff in addition, just because here are all my songs and
> > arrangements fom the past in stock too,- mostly in Notator format.
> > A lot of \ufffdem weren\ufffdt relased and include nice parts p.ex.,- so for me,
> > it\ufffds easier to use the Atari/Notator format instead importing midi
> > files containing 16 tracks only per pattern and
> > arrange/edit/requantize all this again in a modern DAW because of
> > different resolution. I used always 1536ppq w/ Notator SL.
> > Too much work and wasted time.
> >
> > Songs could be only a few midi tracks if there were many guitars and
> > vocals in the front and if there were a drummer and/or percussionist
> > available to record audio. I also don\ufffdt use all my midi outboard tone
> > generators in every song.
> > But if I did complex arrangements alone, incl. all the drums,
> > percussion and sometimes orchestral percussions in addition, the
> > quantum of midi tracks rised fast.
> >
> > I use(d) to have a separate track for each of the drum/percussion
> > instruments and I use(d) to have a separate pattern of 16 midi
> > channels for the orchestrations w/ 1 sampler in multi mode p.ex..
> > This makes it easier to record audio tracks one by one later because
> > of better overview, easy muting tracks and better timing during audio
> > record in sync w/a multi track recorder.
> >
> > Some midi tracks are needed for separate midi controller lanes too,-
> > you might listen to a kind of midi-mix during arranging incl. volume
> > fades, pannings and so on and before you record anything.
> > This can cause some timing gliches if all is playing in realtime, so,
> > if you start to record midi tracks to audio one by one, simply mute
> > all not needed tracks and mute the controller lanes too, avoiding
> > unwanted controller-events affecting the recording of your pure signal
> > which has to be full volume throughout w/ no pannings because you do
> > this in the audio mix later.
> >
> > Rule:
> > Never change programs within a midi-track
> > Don\ufffdt insert CC-controllers in a midi track together w/ the midi-notes
> > Don\ufffdt change midi channels within a midi track.
> >
> > Otherwise you aren\ufffdt able to copy patterns in the arrange list to only
> > one pattern incl. rendered midi transpositions, velocity offsets and
> > so on without getting cluttered program changes, transpositions,
> > velocity jumps, volume an panning changes across the tracks resulting
> > in a endless editing of these copied tracks during recording audio.
> >
> > If you work w/ signature changes and timing offsets of patterns in the
> > arrange list, it\ufffds even more important to organize the miditracks and
> > patterns right.
> >
> > Good organization of tracks and controllers cost miditracks.
> >
> > > WHAT TOS DO YOU USE TOO?
> >
> > TOS 1.4 w/ ATari MegaST4
> > TOS 2.06 w/ Atari MegaSTE
> > Something in between ( the last one) for the 1040STEs
> >
> > Today, the Mega ST4 and the 1040 STEs only run Steinberg Synthworks
> > bankmanager/editor programs for the midi tone generators/keyboards, so
> > I run Mega STE 4 w/ Unitor 2 and Log3, MegaST4 w/ Unitor N and Export
> > and 1 1040 STe w/ a Midex.
> >
> > >
> > > I GOT MY MIDEX WORKING AND BEEN USIG IT  BUT THE ONLY SET BACK NOW
> > IS SCREEN REDRAWS ARE A
> > > TOUGHY..THEY ARE SLOWER WITH THE MORE TRACKS I HAVE PER SONG.
> >
> > I use Cubase Atari only in the case someone comes up w/ tracks created
> > in Cubase Atari format ( this happened in the past).
> > I prefer Notator SL for the Atari platform, Notator is the tightest
> > program w/ midi.
> > I use Notator Logic 2.5 to import Notator SL files/songs to change
> > from pattern oriented sequence structure to a linear track based
> > sequencer structure.
> > This makes it easier to import midi into any linear track based DAW.
> >
> > I\ufffdm able to run all my midi outboard instruments ( 22 devices,- 30 if
> > you count a TX816 as 8 DX7) some in mulitmode, w/ Notator SL, Unitor N
> > (or Unitor 2), Export or Log3 and a Sycologic 16in/32 out midi matriss
> > in realtime to DAT or any other stereo recorder without any timing
> > issues at once.
> > Well, you need a lot of outboard FX and mixers for this, but I did
> > this during the times I only recorded vocals and guitars to a 8-track
> > recorder w/ the midi playback running into the mix in realtime.
> >
> > Today w/ a DAW like Cubase on the PC, I can record all the tracks to
> > harddisk, no question.
> > But it works like described above also and demonstrates the power of
> > midi w/ Atari computers and Notator.
> > And I have still my 8- track tape recorder left here, running in SPMTE
> > sync,- sometimes it\ufffds also a great idea to route software instruments
> > out of the DAW to the tape recorder and back to the DAW as audio,-
> > makes a different sound.
> > >
> > > CHARLES
> >
> > PeWe
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi guys!

This is all extremely interesting :-)..., but may I remind you that this
site is just the atari-midi 'ARCHIVE'.
Some years ago we needed some more yahoo diskspace, that's why.

The big scene is at: atari-midi@yahoogroups.com
(That's were the fune is :-))

Best,
Dr A

PeWe schreef:
> >>>
>
> charles midi gfa pascal schrieb: