The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Hi,
I'm new to this list and already have a question to raise. I 
searched the archives but found nothing that comes close to 
answering my question:

only recently I started to experiment with hooking up my equipment 
to a PC sequencer. The main idea is that I need some external Midi 
clock signal to trigger all of my synths plus an audible click for 
my drummer.

Since I use sequencer patterns from my AN1x in various songs I 
started with the Yamaha, but had to realise that the timing is far 
from being steady and tight: if I use a very simple pattern (one 
note every eigth) and set its tempo to "Midi" there are audible 
jumps and delays, and if I start to play around with some 
controllers (esp. the ribbon) this is getting even worse!

Since I first had used a rather antique Toshiba notebook running 
under Win98, using Cubase VST 3.7 as a triggering sequencer I 
thought that maybe I had severe CPU problems, although Cubase's 
metronom was VERY tight. So last night I tried a slightly more 
powerful PC (PII 450MHz, running Win2k; for testing purposes 
triggering comes from Midi-Ox; no other apps are running). Result: 
the same - jumps and delays.

My question:

is there a known problem within the AN1x's Midi timing when the 
machine is being triggered externally? Would this probably be much 
better using a hardware sequencer or drum box or whatever?

And while we're at it: what I really would be looking for is some 
small stand-alone machine, something like a Midi metronome that can 
deliver audible clicks plus a very tight Midi signal. Set a Midi 
clock speed in BPM, connect it to a headphone amplifier plus a Midi 
patchbay, and of it goes. Are there any machines like this around?

Feel free to answer to the group or my mail address.

Thanks for any help!

- Lothar -

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Lothar Mueller" <lm089@w...> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm new to this list and already have a question to raise. I 
> searched the archives but found nothing that comes close to 
> answering my question:
> 
> only recently I started to experiment with hooking up my equipment 
> to a PC sequencer. The main idea is that I need some external Midi 
> clock signal to trigger all of my synths plus an audible click for 
> my drummer.
> 
> Since I use sequencer patterns from my AN1x in various songs I 
> started with the Yamaha, but had to realise that the timing is far 
> from being steady and tight: if I use a very simple pattern (one 
> note every eigth) and set its tempo to "Midi" there are audible 
> jumps and delays, and if I start to play around with some 
> controllers (esp. the ribbon) this is getting even worse!
> 
> Since I first had used a rather antique Toshiba notebook running 
> under Win98, using Cubase VST 3.7 as a triggering sequencer I 
> thought that maybe I had severe CPU problems, although Cubase's 
> metronom was VERY tight. So last night I tried a slightly more 
> powerful PC (PII 450MHz, running Win2k; for testing purposes 
> triggering comes from Midi-Ox; no other apps are running). Result: 
> the same - jumps and delays.
> 
> My question:
> 
> is there a known problem within the AN1x's Midi timing when the 
> machine is being triggered externally?

No.  Some years ago there were a handful of miscelleaneous reports of 
Sync issues but there never any clear definition or resolution to 
the 'problem.' I'll search my notes in the next day or so to refresh 
my memory.

The first thing I would do in your situation is double check the 
ARP/SEQ TxCh is set to OFF. If not, it's possible the ARP/SEQ is 
outputting it's Note Events at the MIDI Out Port therefore creating a 
feedback loop with Cubase.

FWIW, I've never had any such issue with using the AN1x with either 
LOGIC or VISION DSP (both on a Mac) - I'm certain I've tested an old 
version of Cubase but don't recall without checking my notes. I'll 
get back to you on that.


> Would this probably be much 
> better using a hardware sequencer or drum box or whatever?
> 

Not likely. MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock regardless of the 
source.

> And while we're at it: what I really would be looking for is some 
> small stand-alone machine, something like a Midi metronome that can 
> deliver audible clicks plus a very tight Midi signal. Set a Midi 
> clock speed in BPM, connect it to a headphone amplifier plus a Midi 
> patchbay, and of it goes. Are there any machines like this around?
> 

Perhaps a Yamaha RM1x? Check Yahoo! Groups for a user group - or 
check the Links page here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-
list/links

> Feel free to answer to the group or my mail address.
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> - Lothar -

regards,

Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
Jon,

thanks for your answer.
> 
> The first thing I would do in your situation is double check the 
> ARP/SEQ TxCh is set to OFF. If not, it's possible the ARP/SEQ is 
> outputting it's Note Events at the MIDI Out Port therefore creating 
a 
> feedback loop with Cubase.
> 

I just checked: SEQ TxCh is OFF (I guess you mean the one in the 
matrix labelled "Ptn TxCh"). just to be sure, I also checked the 
standard midi TxCh setting and for a test changed that to OFF as 
well - no change in the machine's behaviour: timing sounds perfect 
with the internal trigger but is sometimes way off with an external 
seq. driving it

> FWIW, I've never had any such issue with using the AN1x with either 
> LOGIC or VISION DSP (both on a Mac) - I'm certain I've tested an 
old 
> version of Cubase but don't recall without checking my notes. I'll 
> get back to you on that.

thx in advance!

> 
> > Would this probably be much 
> > better using a hardware sequencer or drum box or whatever?
> > 
> 
> Not likely. MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock regardless of 
the 
> source.

that was my idea of it so far...
> 
> Perhaps a Yamaha RM1x? Check Yahoo! Groups for a user group - or 
> check the Links page here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-
> list/links
> 

just looked at it: looks quite good. have to think about it.

greetings,

- lotar -

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Lothar Mueller" <lm089@w...> wrote:
> --- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> thanks for your answer.
> > 
> > The first thing I would do in your situation is double check the 
> > ARP/SEQ TxCh is set to OFF. If not, it's possible the ARP/SEQ is 
> > outputting it's Note Events at the MIDI Out Port therefore 
creating 
> a 
> > feedback loop with Cubase.
> > 
> 
> I just checked: SEQ TxCh is OFF (I guess you mean the one in the 
> matrix labelled "Ptn TxCh"). 

Yes, that's the one - I'm not in front of an AN!x right now ;-)


> just to be sure, I also checked the 
> standard midi TxCh setting and for a test changed that to OFF as 
> well - no change in the machine's behaviour: timing sounds perfect 
> with the internal trigger but is sometimes way off with an external 
> seq. driving it
> 

Hhhmmm, it doesn't make sense to me.


> > FWIW, I've never had any such issue with using the AN1x with 
either 
> > LOGIC or VISION DSP (both on a Mac) - I'm certain I've tested an 
> old 
> > version of Cubase but don't recall without checking my notes. 
I'll 
> > get back to you on that.
> 
> thx in advance!
> 


Okay, I found my notes today. The problem I was trying to recall was 
an issue recording the output of the AN1x ARP/SEQ into a software 
sequencer - there were a handful or reports of the MIDI Note Events 
being delayed by up to 1/32. I believe most of the people who 
reported this were triggering the AN1x on Beat 1 of Measure 1 rather 
than permitting the AN1x Clock to sync up with the software seqs MIDI 
Clock signal - waiting for, say, beat 1 measure 3 to begin reocrding 
also allows time for controller chasing to 'catch up.' Don't know if 
this applies to your situation.

According to my notes I did NOT test with Cubase but I'm certain an 
old demo copy of VST/24 is still installed. There are many Cubase 
users on this list but as you can tell from the list archive this 
hasn't been a prominent issue. Don't think Reg is still lurking on 
the list - he was aces with Cubase on Wintel.

> > 
> > > Would this probably be much 
> > > better using a hardware sequencer or drum box or whatever?
> > > 
> > 
> > Not likely. MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock is MIDI Clock regardless of 
> the 
> > source.
> 
> that was my idea of it so far...
> > 
> > Perhaps a Yamaha RM1x? Check Yahoo! Groups for a user group - or 
> > check the Links page here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-
> > list/links
> > 
> 
> just looked at it: looks quite good. have to think about it.
> 

You could also look up the groups for the Korg Electribes (love that 
ER-1!) or Yammie RS7000 or Roland MC-303/505/909 series...

> greetings,
> 
> - lotar -

welcome to the list,

Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jondl_2000@y...> 
wrote:
> According to my notes I did NOT test with Cubase but I'm 
certain an 
> old demo copy of VST/24 is still installed. There are many 
Cubase 
> users on this list but as you can tell from the list archive this 
> hasn't been a prominent issue. Don't think Reg is still lurking 
on 
> the list - he was aces with Cubase on Wintel.
> 


Okay, I made some time to give this a go with Cubase and here 
are my results. Keep in mind that I'm not a regular user of 
Cubase :

Using Cubase VST/24 v4.0 r2 DEMO Mac OS 9.2.2 & OMS v2.3.8 
Opcode Studio 128x MIDI Interface

From the Menu bar, select Options -> Synchronization; Set Sync 
Out parameter MIDI Clock to ON; Click OK.

I selected an AN1x patch that had been saved with the ARP/SEQ 
enabled and the Tempo set to MIDI. On the Transport Bar I 
enabled the Sync option and subseqeuntly recorded some chord 
changes into Cubase VST/24. The AN1x synchronized with 
Cubase with no problem but, any adjustment to the Tempo in 
Cubase resulted in momentary dropouts.

I repeated the above test and found that I'd mistakenly enabled 
the Set Sync Out parameter MIDI Timecode to ON in addition to 
MIDI Clock.ON. When I disabled MIDI Timecode the AN1x 
response to tempo adjustments was improved but still not 
perfect. Since the AN1x does not recognize MTC I assume too 
much bandwidth was being cinsumed trying to send both clock 
signals to the AN1x.

FWIW, I have no such problems with Logic Audio Gold v5.5. 
However, a friend of mine running LAWP v5.3 has experienced 
poor synchronization with his AN200/DX200 combo along with 
other devices. Of course the problem doesn't occur when he 
generates the MIDI Clock signal from another application - go 
figure? This all leads me to believe the synchronization 
problems are application specific and not necessarily an AN1x 
'bug.'

There use to be number of worthwhile Cubase articles at 
Dancetech http://www.dancetech.com/ and I vaguley recall some 
griping about Cubase sync issues. I noticed you're running an 
old release of Cubase (v3.7, right?) but you didn't mention what 
make/model MIDI Interface you're using? It might be time to 
upgrade - or at least get the latest demo off the Steinberg 'site to 
see if the problem persists. Also, you might check in with 
Cubase.net - just watch out for the stone throwing and overall 
bad vibe the place puts off...


regards,

Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Jon" <jondl_2000@y...> wrote:




> Okay, I made some time to give this a go with Cubase and here 


> are my results.




Hi Jon,




thanks for the effort! I totally agree that the equipment I used is 
far from being state of the art, and I tend to blame it on my PCs and 
the softare running on them. NExt thing I'll do is to try with a 
hardware sequencer or drumbox or whatever. Unfortunately I'm quite low 
on budget these days (who isn't?).




There's a Yamaha QY-10 on auction, anyone had bad experince with that? 
I'm aware that the sounds aren't quite "fat", but since I just need a 
good Midi clock signal plus an audible click for the drummer to play 
to...




Best regards,




- Lothar -

Hi,

just to wrap this up: I finally was able to borrow a midi 
drumbox/sequencer (an old RX15) to drive my AN1x: timing is now tight 
as it should be! So indeed it's the PC or some PC-related iece of 
equipment (software, interface, whatever).

thanks again,

- lothar -