50g

Hi everyone,

I know that a lot of you are international users of the HP50g. But, I
thought it would be interesting to know that in California the CSET
Math II exam does not allow the use of of the HP50g. This is one of
the three tests that you must take in order to become a math teacher
in California. The CSET does allow the use of the TI-84, TI-84 Plus,
TI-84 Plus Silver, TI-85, TI-86, TI-89, TI-89 Titanium, HP 49g, and HP
49g+. It almost seems like a conspiracy against HP because students
won't buy a new HP 50g if they can't use it on this exam. So, this
essentially means that many less future math students will be exposed
to an excellent graphing/math utility. What a shame.

This is the kind of nonsense that puts people of math, and off of math teaching, Today,calculators are as common is dirt, We had this debate almost 40 years back, when the first basic 4 function calculators were the price of a used car. Using calculators on tests or on regular math does not demonstrably weaken math skills. It merely speeds execution of the problems in question. The bottom line is this, and always will be. You must know how to do the math in order to use the calculator in the first place. It is  as true with simple square roots as it is with calculus. Anyone telling you anything else, regardless of what "authority" they might hold, is being plain backwards, and dinosaur-like in their thinking and methods.  These people ought to be dragged, kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.
Roci

--- On Sun, 9/21/08, Jose J Martinez <jose_j_martinez@...> wrote:

From: Jose J Martinez <jose_j_martinez@...>
Subject: [50g] HP50g not allowed on CSET Math Level II
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:50 PM

Hi everyone,

I know that a lot of you are international users of the HP50g. But, I
thought it would be interesting to know that in California the CSET
Math II exam does not allow the use of of the HP50g. This is one of
the three tests that you must take in order to become a math teacher
in California. The CSET does allow the use of the TI-84, TI-84 Plus,
TI-84 Plus Silver, TI-85, TI-86, TI-89, TI-89 Titanium, HP 49g, and HP
49g+. It almost seems like a conspiracy against HP because students
won't buy a new HP 50g if they can't use it on this exam. So, this
essentially means that many less future math students will be exposed
to an excellent graphing/math utility. What a shame.

From: Ryokyo Lyons <oykoyr@...>
Subject: Re: [50g] HP50g not allowed on CSET Math Level II
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 11:04 PM

This is the kind of nonsense that puts people of math, and off of math teaching, Today,calculators are as common is dirt, We had this debate almost 40 years back, when the first basic 4 function calculators were the price of a used car. Using calculators on tests or on regular math does not demonstrably weaken math skills. It merely speeds execution of the problems in question. The bottom line is this, and always will be. You must know how to do the math in order to use the calculator in the first place. It is  as true with simple square roots as it is with calculus. Anyone telling you anything else, regardless of what "authority" they might hold, is being plain backwards, and dinosaur-like in their thinking and methods.  These people ought to be dragged, kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.
Roci

--- On Sun, 9/21/08, Jose J Martinez <jose_j_martinez@ hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Jose J Martinez <jose_j_martinez@ hotmail.com>
Subject: [50g] HP50g not allowed on CSET Math Level II
To: 50g@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:50 PM

Hi everyone,

I know that a lot of you are international users of the HP50g. But, I
thought it would be interesting to know that in California the CSET
Math II exam does not allow the use of of the HP50g. This is one of
the three tests that you must take in order to become a math teacher
in California. The CSET does allow the use of the TI-84, TI-84 Plus,
TI-84 Plus Silver, TI-85, TI-86, TI-89, TI-89 Titanium, HP 49g, and HP
49g+. It almost seems like a conspiracy against HP because students
won't buy a new HP 50g if they can't use it on this exam. So, this
essentially means that many less future math students will be exposed
to an excellent graphing/math utility. What a shame.

Calcs can be useful in a math class like in visualizing a graph but I don't think there's a great need for them. I suspect that when a student has to learn to use the calc as well as the math, it just takes time away from thinking about the principle to be learned.

And then there's the calculator's wow factor where the student becomes fixated on the gadget, again, a distraction. Of course it wouldn't be so bad if the student is so familiar with the calc that using it is second nature, but how often is that the case?

As for demonstrating that calcs don't hurt math performance, I think it gets harder to achieve lower performance if you're already doing poorly in international rankings. Or did you mean no study has been done yet to demonstrate a disadvantage (or advantage, for that matter)?

Now, a better case may be made for using them in engineering courses. But I still think they're more of a distraction than a benefit.

That they don't allow a 50g on the CSET test while allowing a 49g is odd. Maybe it has something to do with the IRDA port. I heard that earlier HP models were banned for some tests for fear of people exchanging information.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

--- On Sun, 9/21/08, Ryokyo Lyons <oykoyr@...> wrote:

> From: Ryokyo Lyons <oykoyr@...>
> Subject: Re: [50g] HP50g not allowed on CSET Math Level II
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 9:04 PM
> This is the kind of nonsense that puts people of math, and
> off of math teaching, Today,calculators are as common is
> dirt, We had this debate almost 40 years back, when the
> first basic 4 function calculators were the price of a used
> car. Using calculators on tests or on regular math does not
> demonstrably weaken math skills. It merely speeds execution
> of the problems in question. The bottom line is this, and
> always will be. You must know how to do the math in order to
> use the calculator in the first place. It is  as true with
> simple square roots as it is with calculus. Anyone telling
> you anything else, regardless of what "authority"
> they might hold, is being plain backwards, and dinosaur-like
> in their thinking and methods.  These people ought to be
> dragged, kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.
> Roci
>
> --- On Sun, 9/21/08, Jose J Martinez
> <jose_j_martinez@...> wrote:
> From: Jose J Martinez <jose_j_martinez@...>
> Subject: [50g] HP50g not allowed on CSET Math Level II
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I know that a lot of you are international users of the
> HP50g. But, I
>
> thought it would be interesting to know that in California
> the CSET
>
> Math II exam does not allow the use of of the HP50g. This
> is one of
>
> the three tests that you must take in order to become a
> math teacher
>
> in California. The CSET does allow the use of the TI-84,
> TI-84 Plus,
>
> TI-84 Plus Silver, TI-85, TI-86, TI-89, TI-89 Titanium, HP
> 49g, and HP
>
> 49g+. It almost seems like a conspiracy against HP because
> students
>
> won't buy a new HP 50g if they can't use it on this
> exam. So, this
>
> essentially means that many less future math students will
> be exposed
>
> to an excellent graphing/math utility. What a shame.