50g

what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?

..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
Brian Denley
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Golightly" <alanthegringo@...>
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the calc
market sewn up.


________________________________
From: Ray <bigraycar53@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
Subject: [50g] what happed?



what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <bigraycar53@...> wrote:

>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>

Or it might be that this site isn't where the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . .

HP's discussion board: http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Calculators/bd-p/bsc-408
(this one I put in the new QSG for the 50 so it gets a lot of traffic)

Usenet discussion group (easy access through google): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/topics


TI has the graphing market in the US locked up tight. In Brazil however, you can't purchase a TI calculator. It varies around the world.

TW

I have been wondering that myself.  I joined about the time I bought my 50g (my fifth HP...I started with an HP 28C back in 1986) and i wondered when someone would start posting again.

There may be some truth to that.  I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx (two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone.  That is in addition to several scientific calculator programs.  Even HP itself has started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone.  I also have HP 48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac.  I bought my HP 50g because there are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am a major geek.

There may be some truth to that.  I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx (two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone.  That is in addition to several scientific calculator programs.  Even HP itself has started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone.  I also have HP 48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac.  I bought my HP 50g because there are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am a major geek.

Jennifer:
As are we all. The only calculators that even command high prices on Ebay
are the older HPs: the 41C line especially, or the 15, 16 C 'sideways'
calculators. The HP-25 was still my favorite!
Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@...>
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


There may be some truth to that. I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx
(two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone. That is in
addition to several scientific calculator programs. Even HP itself has
started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone. I also have HP
48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac. I bought my HP 50g because there
are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am
a major geek.

Jennifer

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> ..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
> Brian Denley
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Golightly" <alanthegringo@...>
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
> Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the
> calc
> market sewn up.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ray <bigraycar53@...>
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
> Subject: [50g] what happed?
>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>
>

-----Original message-----

From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 03:49:19 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

Jennifer:
As are we all. The only calculators that even command high prices on Ebay
are the older HPs: the 41C line especially, or the 15, 16 C 'sideways'
calculators. The HP-25 was still my favorite!
Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Usher"
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


There may be some truth to that. I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx
(two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone. That is in
addition to several scientific calculator programs. Even HP itself has
started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone. I also have HP
48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac. I bought my HP 50g because there
are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am
a major geek.

Jennifer

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> ..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
> Brian Denley
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Golightly"
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
> Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the
> calc
> market sewn up.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ray
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
> Subject: [50g] what happed?
>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>
>




------------------------------------

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-----Original message-----

From: Keith Fix <kefix@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 14:46:29 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed? - A new direction?

 

Actually, the 49 keypad quality was the biggest issue. The keys "broke" after about 5 years - much less time than most of us die-hard fans expected. The 50g corrected most of these quality problems, and the 48 line was great, but outdated in the end. There were also some issues with the mechanisms for storage, chips and chip emulators, programming languages, etc. Most HP engineers I know adopted the calculator after using RPN for a few years, then bought sub-standard HP calculatos to replace the old ones

 

HP would be well served to start from the ground up and develop a new device that satisfies the technical requirements of scientific, engineering, and economic professionals. Something incorporating iPad, iPhone, and hard-coded advanced calculator functions would be ideal. And the keypad is a big deal. HP needs to discard the "consumer electronics" model and build the calculator to be an industrial tool. Perhaps core interface hardware with replacable processing cores / motherboards. As Joe suggests, QWERTY keyboards are the de facto standard for personal computers, and the mouse, while evolving, has been pretty static in basic function for about 30 years. Now we have touch-screens to add to the mix (most of which are two-finger operable), so it expands the possibilities further. Small would be nice, but an i-Pad equivalent screen (or perhaps half that) may also be acceptable.

 

Another market to address is proctored academic and professional exams. It needs to be possible for a proctor to rapidly "lock-out" and verify compliance of a calculator for exam security. Put the core calculator function in the interface device, then detach it for the exam?

 

While low price is a nice thing, Apple proved that fully-featured electonics can sell at the $500 price point, and since I own my own business, this is a VERY small expense compared to software subscription costs I pay. Maybe the core calculator interface could sold separately?

 

Here's an idea: why don't we start designing end-use specifications for a calculator, build grass-roots support, and then request that HP build it?

 

Keith Erick Fix

Principal Engineer

Red Pepper Consulting, Inc.

10201 W. Markham St.

Suite 215

Little Rock, AR 72205

 

From: Joseph Colannino <joecolannino@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 23, 2011 11:24:58 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

 

The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter key.  HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it. Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user interface.  For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular despite its shortcomings.  This lesson has been repeated so often that you would think HP would have figured it out.  But it didn't, and the 50G has declined in popularity because of it.

Joe

-----Original message-----

From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 03:49:19 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

Jennifer:
As are we all. The only calculators that even command high prices on Ebay
are the older HPs: the 41C line especially, or the 15, 16 C 'sideways'
calculators. The HP-25 was still my favorite!
Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Usher"
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


There may be some truth to that. I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx
(two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone. That is in
addition to several scientific calculator programs. Even HP itself has
started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone. I also have HP
48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac. I bought my HP 50g because there
are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am
a major geek.

Jennifer

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> ..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
> Brian Denley
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Golightly"
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
> Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the
> calc
> market sewn up.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ray
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
> Subject: [50g] what happed?
>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>
>




------------------------------------

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*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/50g/

*> Your email settings:
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*> To change settings online go to:
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-----Original message-----

From: Joseph Colannino <joecolannino@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 15:34:52 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed? - A new direction ?

 

[Keith Eric Fix:] Here's an idea: why don't we start designing end use specifications... and then request that HP build it?

Brilliant! 

Full help menus would be a great addition.  Also, the interface should be "portable" so that I can share work between my PC and my calculator.  And sharing of files via USB or Bluetooth should be INTUITIVE, not the cryptic programming syntax that's required now.  My 15C was a lot easier to program and to remember how to program.  Why not sync the device with a PC and allow programming from the computer keyboard as well as the calculator?  And quit messing with the layout... the + key needs to go at the bottom right and the enter key needs to be doublewide and moved away from the basic operators (× ÷ + -).


Joe Colannino

-----Original message-----

From: Keith Fix <kefix@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 14:46:29 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed? - A new direction?

 

Actually, the 49 keypad quality was the biggest issue. The keys "broke" after about 5 years - much less time than most of us die-hard fans expected. The 50g corrected most of these quality problems, and the 48 line was great, but outdated in the end. There were also some issues with the mechanisms for storage, chips and chip emulators, programming languages, etc. Most HP engineers I know adopted the calculator after using RPN for a few years, then bought sub-standard HP calculatos to replace the old ones

 

HP would be well served to start from the ground up and develop a new device that satisfies the technical requirements of scientific, engineering, and economic professionals. Something incorporating iPad, iPhone, and hard-coded advanced calculator functions would be ideal. And the keypad is a big deal. HP needs to discard the "consumer electronics" model and build the calculator to be an industrial tool. Perhaps core interface hardware with replacable processing cores / motherboards. As Joe suggests, QWERTY keyboards are the de facto standard for personal computers, and the mouse, while evolving, has been pretty static in basic function for about 30 years. Now we have touch-screens to add to the mix (most of which are two-finger operable), so it expands the possibilities further. Small would be nice, but an i-Pad equivalent screen (or perhaps half that) may also be acceptable.

 

Another market to address is proctored academic and professional exams. It needs to be possible for a proctor to rapidly "lock-out" and verify compliance of a calculator for exam security. Put the core calculator function in the interface device, then detach it for the exam?

 

While low price is a nice thing, Apple proved that fully-featured electonics can sell at the $500 price point, and since I own my own business, this is a VERY small expense compared to software subscription costs I pay. Maybe the core calculator interface could sold separately?

 

Here's an idea: why don't we start designing end-use specifications for a calculator, build grass-roots support, and then request that HP build it?

 

Keith Erick Fix

Principal Engineer

Red Pepper Consulting, Inc.

10201 W. Markham St.

Suite 215

Little Rock, AR 72205

 

From: Joseph Colannino <joecolannino@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 23, 2011 11:24:58 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

 

The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter key.  HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it. Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user interface.  For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular despite its shortcomings.  This lesson has been repeated so often that you would think HP would have figured it out.  But it didn't, and the 50G has declined in popularity because of it.

Joe

-----Original message-----

From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 2011 Apr, Sun, 24 03:49:19 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

Jennifer:
As are we all. The only calculators that even command high prices on Ebay
are the older HPs: the 41C line especially, or the 15, 16 C 'sideways'
calculators. The HP-25 was still my favorite!
Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Usher"
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


There may be some truth to that. I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx
(two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone. That is in
addition to several scientific calculator programs. Even HP itself has
started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone. I also have HP
48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac. I bought my HP 50g because there
are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am
a major geek.

Jennifer

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> ..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
> Brian Denley
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Golightly"
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
> Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the
> calc
> market sewn up.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ray
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
> Subject: [50g] what happed?
>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/50g/

*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/50g/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

*> To change settings via email:
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50g-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
50g-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Joe:
Also the OS is still the same as the one in my HP-28S from 1986! Brilliant
for it's day but HP should have continued and developed a MathCad type GUI
with a PC application sync (may be to Mathcad). I think students and
professionals migth have adopted it as a standard. Way too late now!
Brian
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Colannino" <joecolannino@...>
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


> The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter key.
> HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it.
> Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user
> interface. For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular
> despite
> its shortcomings. This lesson has been repeated so often that you would
> think HP would have figured it out. But it didn't, and the 50G has
> declined
> in popularity because of it.
>
> Joe

Brian,

Some of the prices are unbelievable. There is clearly a strong collector's market.

Jennifer

On Apr 23, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> Jennifer:
> As are we all. The only calculators that even command high prices on Ebay
> are the older HPs: the 41C line especially, or the 15, 16 C 'sideways'
> calculators. The HP-25 was still my favorite!
> Brian
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@...>
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
>
> There may be some truth to that. I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx
> (two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone. That is in
> addition to several scientific calculator programs. Even HP itself has
> started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone. I also have HP
> 48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac. I bought my HP 50g because there
> are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am
> a major geek.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
>
>> ..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
>> Brian Denley
>> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alan Golightly" <alanthegringo@...>
>> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>>
>> Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the
>> calc
>> market sewn up.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Ray <bigraycar53@...>
>> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
>> Subject: [50g] what happed?
>>
>> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Joe,

Yes, that would be good.

Years ago, around 1986 to be exact, one of my college professors said that TI had won the interface war, that algebraic was more popular than RPN.  But, I pointed out at the time that people were still willing to pay considerably more for an HP than a TI.  No longer quite as true...but that the time, TI had nothing that could touch the HP.

In the engineering community, HP always dominated throughout the 70s, 80s
and 90s, even with the steeper price. The quality of those calculators was
outstanding.
Brian
KB1VBF
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@...>
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?


Years ago, around 1986 to be exact, one of my college professors said that
TI had won the interface war, that algebraic was more popular than RPN.
But, I pointed out at the time that people were still willing to pay
considerably more for an HP than a TI. No longer quite as true...but that
the time, TI had nothing that could touch the HP.

Jennifer

On Apr 24, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Alan Golightly wrote:

>
> IMO the HP50g is a very powerful calculator. But extremely user
> unfriendly. My favorite is still my HP15C; simple, yet powerful.
> I think TI cornered the academic market; too bad so many people missing
> out on RPN. It would be nice if HP put some effort into their calculators
> and do what Joe said to improve the HP50g to modern standards.
>
> From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
>
> Joe:
> Also the OS is still the same as the one in my HP-28S from 1986! Brilliant
> for it's day but HP should have continued and developed a MathCad type GUI
> with a PC application sync (may be to Mathcad). I think students and
> professionals migth have adopted it as a standard. Way too late now!
> Brian
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Colannino" <joecolannino@...>
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
> > The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter
> > key.
> > HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it.
> > Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user
> > interface. For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular
> > despite
> > its shortcomings. This lesson has been repeated so often that you would
> > think HP would have figured it out. But it didn't, and the 50G has
> > declined
> > in popularity because of it.
> >
> > Joe
>
>
>
>
>

I got my first calculator back in 1975 - and I think it was a TI. I swapped it out for an HP25. Since then I've had several HP calculators including the 41C, a 15 and my current one - the 32SII. I picked up a 50g after it came out but frankly don't use it.

Counter-intuitive to use after having all the experiences with the other HP's. Someone definitely screwed the pooch during D&D - obviously neither an engineer or a power user had any input.

you don't mess with success

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Denley" <b.denley@...> wrote:
>
> In the engineering community, HP always dominated throughout the 70s, 80s
> and 90s, even with the steeper price. The quality of those calculators was
> outstanding.
> Brian
> KB1VBF
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@...>
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
>
> Years ago, around 1986 to be exact, one of my college professors said that
> TI had won the interface war, that algebraic was more popular than RPN.
> But, I pointed out at the time that people were still willing to pay
> considerably more for an HP than a TI. No longer quite as true...but that
> the time, TI had nothing that could touch the HP.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Apr 24, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Alan Golightly wrote:
>
> >
> > IMO the HP50g is a very powerful calculator. But extremely user
> > unfriendly. My favorite is still my HP15C; simple, yet powerful.
> > I think TI cornered the academic market; too bad so many people missing
> > out on RPN. It would be nice if HP put some effort into their calculators
> > and do what Joe said to improve the HP50g to modern standards.
> >
> > From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
> > To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
> >
> >
> > Joe:
> > Also the OS is still the same as the one in my HP-28S from 1986! Brilliant
> > for it's day but HP should have continued and developed a MathCad type GUI
> > with a PC application sync (may be to Mathcad). I think students and
> > professionals migth have adopted it as a standard. Way too late now!
> > Brian
> > http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joseph Colannino" <joecolannino@...>
> > To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
> >
> > > The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter
> > > key.
> > > HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it.
> > > Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user
> > > interface. For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular
> > > despite
> > > its shortcomings. This lesson has been repeated so often that you would
> > > think HP would have figured it out. But it didn't, and the 50G has
> > > declined
> > > in popularity because of it.
> > >
> > > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

My father worked for HP when I was a kid. He brought home the first HP-35 ever to enter Canada when I was nine or ten, and I played with it endlessly. It's fair to say that I grew up on RPN. I've owned an HP-21 (got me through high school!), an HP-65, and HP-67, an HP-41CV, and now I have a 48GX, a 49G+, and a 50G. I can say with some authority that HP lost their mojo. The last calculator that, to me, FEELS like an HP is the 48GX, and even it is dodgy with the graphing functions. I'd love to get my 41CV back into working order.

I have a small collection of old slide rules. I'd love to start collecting old HP calculators - the REAL ones, from the great old days.

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, Alan Golightly <alanthegringo@...> wrote:
>
> Greg < exactly right
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Greg <gnroberts71@...>
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, May 1, 2011 2:52:10 PM
> Subject: [50g] Re: what happed?
>
>  
> I got my first calculator back in 1975 - and I think it was a TI. I swapped it
> out for an HP25. Since then I've had several HP calculators including the 41C, a
> 15 and my current one - the 32SII. I picked up a 50g after it came out but
> frankly don't use it.
>
> Counter-intuitive to use after having all the experiences with the other HP's.
> Someone definitely screwed the pooch during D&D - obviously neither an engineer
> or a power user had any input.
>
> you don't mess with success
>
> --- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Denley" <b.denley@> wrote:
> >
> > In the engineering community, HP always dominated throughout the 70s, 80s
> > and 90s, even with the steeper price. The quality of those calculators was
> > outstanding.
> > Brian
> > KB1VBF
> > http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@>
> > To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
> >
> >
> > Years ago, around 1986 to be exact, one of my college professors said that
> > TI had won the interface war, that algebraic was more popular than RPN.
> > But, I pointed out at the time that people were still willing to pay
> > considerably more for an HP than a TI. No longer quite as true...but that
> > the time, TI had nothing that could touch the HP.
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Alan Golightly wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > IMO the HP50g is a very powerful calculator. But extremely user
> > > unfriendly. My favorite is still my HP15C; simple, yet powerful.
> > > I think TI cornered the academic market; too bad so many people missing
> > > out on RPN. It would be nice if HP put some effort into their calculators
> > > and do what Joe said to improve the HP50g to modern standards.
> > >
> > > From: Brian Denley <b.denley@>
> > > To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:34 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe:
> > > Also the OS is still the same as the one in my HP-28S from 1986! Brilliant
> > > for it's day but HP should have continued and developed a MathCad type GUI
> > > with a PC application sync (may be to Mathcad). I think students and
> > > professionals migth have adopted it as a standard. Way too late now!
> > > Brian
> > > http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joseph Colannino" <joecolannino@>
> > > To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:24 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
> > >
> > > > The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter
> > > > key.
> > > > HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it.
> > > > Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user
> > > > interface. For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular
> > > > despite
> > > > its shortcomings. This lesson has been repeated so often that you would
> > > > think HP would have figured it out. But it didn't, and the 50G has
> > > > declined
> > > > in popularity because of it.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

This is very true.  

I know.  I saw several items I would love to have, but they are way out of my price range.

I know. HP had a great reputation for making quality products.

Jennifer

On Apr 28, 2011, at 7:03 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

> In the engineering community, HP always dominated throughout the 70s, 80s
> and 90s, even with the steeper price. The quality of those calculators was
> outstanding.
> Brian
> KB1VBF
> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jennifer Usher" <jennisuzan@...>
> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>
>
> Years ago, around 1986 to be exact, one of my college professors said that
> TI had won the interface war, that algebraic was more popular than RPN.
> But, I pointed out at the time that people were still willing to pay
> considerably more for an HP than a TI. No longer quite as true...but that
> the time, TI had nothing that could touch the HP.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Apr 24, 2011, at 5:40 PM, Alan Golightly wrote:
>
>>
>> IMO the HP50g is a very powerful calculator. But extremely user
>> unfriendly. My favorite is still my HP15C; simple, yet powerful.
>> I think TI cornered the academic market; too bad so many people missing
>> out on RPN. It would be nice if HP put some effort into their calculators
>> and do what Joe said to improve the HP50g to modern standards.
>>
>> From: Brian Denley <b.denley@...>
>> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>>
>>
>> Joe:
>> Also the OS is still the same as the one in my HP-28S from 1986! Brilliant
>> for it's day but HP should have continued and developed a MathCad type GUI
>> with a PC application sync (may be to Mathcad). I think students and
>> professionals migth have adopted it as a standard. Way too late now!
>> Brian
>> http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joseph Colannino" <joecolannino@...>
>> To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 12:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
>>
>>> The problem with the 50G was the change in the position of the enter
>>> key.
>>> HP blew it with the change and underestimated customer resistance to it.
>>> Microsoft committed the same faux pas when it rearranged the Excel user
>>> interface. For the same reason, the qwerty keyboard remains popular
>>> despite
>>> its shortcomings. This lesson has been repeated so often that you would
>>> think HP would have figured it out. But it didn't, and the 50G has
>>> declined
>>> in popularity because of it.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

It is clearly not their best design.  I had a 48GX that I miss.  Granted, I have an emulator for it on both my Mac and my PC as well as on my iPhone and my Android.  

If you have an iPhone (or an iPod Touch, there is an excellent HP 41CV emulator.  There are also others available for the HP 48GX and others.  I have one for the HP 16C that is very useful.  I sort of regret that I missed out on slide rules.  They were on the way out about the time I started.  I saw an excellent exhibit on them at the Computer History Museum.  I also learned how to use an abacus there.  I still want to visit "the garage."

This group has always seemed to move in fits and starts. Long periods of quiet usually mean something is the matter, however. I once went 7 months with no mail from this group and then saw 150 posts in a day!
Why?
I don't know. I just enjoy the ride.

As to the calculator market, I can say that while the TI Toys get a lot of shelf space at the big Box stores, their "high end" 89 (Full disclosure: I carry and use a TI 89 Titanium most of the time for casual use) doesn't seem to move much. The same unit has been sitting on the "peg" in the store where I go to the Pharmacy for 4 months now. It's white with dust on the blister pack.
When I come home and I need to get serious (as in Manned Space Flight serious) away goes the toys and out comes the 50g..
I used a 48gx for dog years, until I kept hitting the memory cap on it.
I don't cotton much to these "calculator wars" All I know and follow is what works best when I need it to do so. The TI is a good little box. But what makes the 48 and the 50 "different are the Users, by and large.
It's a thought and application process more than a choice of "Hardware" as such.
When I got started, computers were still made with tubes, I used (and still do) a slide rule, and those computers worked on punch cards and tape.
I'm not saying this to blow my own horn. What I am saying is that having that history teaches you a certain way to think, and how you approach problem solving.
I say this a lot, and it confuses the heck out of a lot of people, but I like the 48-50 because the machine thinks like it's user.
So my feeling overall is that if the TI line "fits" someone well, OK, go for it. If that's "89%" of the known world, so be it. As long as I can be comfortable and productive when I must be, I can handle being the "11%" solution :)

Roci

--- On Sat, 4/23/11, Jennifer Usher <jennisuzan@...> wrote:

From: Jennifer Usher <jennisuzan@...>
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 5:34 PM

 

There may be some truth to that.  I currently have emulators for the HP 48gx (two actually), the HP 41CX, and an HP 16C on my iPhone.  That is in addition to several scientific calculator programs.  Even HP itself has started marketing an emulator for the HP 15C for the iPhone.  I also have HP 48gx emulators on both my PC and my Mac.  I bought my HP 50g because there are times when I still want a standalone calculator, and well, because I am a major geek.

Jennifer

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

 

..or it might be that there IS no real calc market anymore.
Brian Denley
http://home.comcast.net/~b.denley/index.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Golightly" <alanthegringo@...>
To: <50g@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [50g] what happed?

Not sure. The HP50G user base must be really small. I guess TI has the calc
market sewn up.

________________________________
From: Ray <bigraycar53@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:08 PM
Subject: [50g] what happed?

what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?

>>Or it might be that this site isn't where the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . .<<

That's dirty pool..

I resent having my knowledge of something impugned. If you're going to walk away from this group of people, and set up something someplace else, it would be at least polite to let others know about it, rather than leave them hanging for so long wondering what's happening.

Just because someone doesn't know about something you set up on your own, and then didn't tell anyone about doesn't make them ignorant or worse..

I'm not stupid, nor am I ignorant, and I resent being portrayed as such. If you want to walk away, then walk, but have the courtesy and the respect to do it in a worthwhile fashion for the others you leave behind.

Roci (PhD in Astrophysics)


Take a really good guess at who it is that *I* consider "Knowledgeable" in this particular context. (Here's a free hint: It isn't you.)

Some "Moderator"...

--- On Thu, 4/21/11, Tim <timwessman@...> wrote:

From: Tim <timwessman@...>
Subject: [50g] Re: what happed?
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2011, 10:41 PM

 

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <bigraycar53@...> wrote:
>
> what happed to this site, no post in 3 mo.?
>

Or it might be that this site isn't where the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . .

HP's discussion board: http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/Calculators/bd-p/bsc-408
(this one I put in the new QSG for the 50 so it gets a lot of traffic)

Usenet discussion group (easy access through google): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/topics

TI has the graphing market in the US locked up tight. In Brazil however, you can't purchase a TI calculator. It varies around the world.

TW

> >>Or it might be that this site isn't where the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . .<<
>
> That's dirty pool..
>
> I
> resent having my knowledge of something impugned.

There was a missing *most* in that sentence that I must have skipped. It was completely unintentional I assure you. It should have read "Or it might be that this site isn't where *most* the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . ."

I think you will agree that the single missing word changes the tone of the sentence completely (and is what was originally meant). Again, I apologize for my poor wording.

The discussion of that thread why there was not very much activity on this yahoo group, and if it meant that the 50g was dead or something.

Please note I did not "leave to go set up something else without telling anyone". Both of the things to which I linked have been around long before this group was organized.

It is very relevant to know that comp.sys.hp48, a usenet group, has been around since the late 80s and is where most of the discussion of the 48/49/50g happens. Almost all of the "old hands" read there, but nowhere else. The link I posted simply is the google interface to the usenet group. You can search for info that goes back over 2 decades.

HP's discussion group is at least 8 years old and has much more visibility (in both HP manuals since I started putting it there and from the main HP calculator page since I convinced marketing to include it) and active users than this yahoo group.

In fact, you can search back in comp.sys.hp48 and see discussion about someone wanting to open *this* group and the associated discussion. If I recall correctly, the general comments were along the line of "why open another group when this usenet has more users?" and "well I won't be visiting it".

My opinion was that the more locations people can get help the better. That is why I offered to take over "moderation" here when he left rather then just closing it as he intended. Moderation consists of approving requests to join (it is quite simple to filer spam bot registrations vs real users) and to clean out the occasional spam post.

If anyone would prefer to do this task, feel free to email and I will happily hand over the keys.

Also, I never received the message you send to me earlier. It must have ended up in the yahoo spam filter or something. . . :-(

Feel free to message me at timwessman at hp.com if you'd like.

--

TW


Although I work for the HP calculator group designing and building new calculators, the views and comments expressed here are my own.

-----Original message-----

From: Tim <timwessman@...>
To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, May 29, 2011 16:02:09 GMT+00:00
Subject: [50g] Re: I sent this missive to our "Moderator" a short while ago

 

> >>Or it might be that this site isn't where the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . .<<
>
> That's dirty pool..
>
> I
> resent having my knowledge of something impugned.

There was a missing *most* in that sentence that I must have skipped. It was completely unintentional I assure you. It should have read "Or it might be that this site isn't where *most* the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . ."

I think you will agree that the single missing word changes the tone of the sentence completely (and is what was originally meant). Again, I apologize for my poor wording.

The discussion of that thread why there was not very much activity on this yahoo group, and if it meant that the 50g was dead or something.

Please note I did not "leave to go set up something else without telling anyone". Both of the things to which I linked have been around long before this group was organized.

It is very relevant to know that comp.sys.hp48, a usenet group, has been around since the late 80s and is where most of the discussion of the 48/49/50g happens. Almost all of the "old hands" read there, but nowhere else. The link I posted simply is the google interface to the usenet group. You can search for info that goes back over 2 decades.

HP's discussion group is at least 8 years old and has much more visibility (in both HP manuals since I started putting it there and from the main HP calculator page since I convinced marketing to include it) and active users than this yahoo group.

In fact, you can search back in comp.sys.hp48 and see discussion about someone wanting to open *this* group and the associated discussion. If I recall correctly, the general comments were along the line of "why open another group when this usenet has more users?" and "well I won't be visiting it".

My opinion was that the more locations people can get help the better. That is why I offered to take over "moderation" here when he left rather then just closing it as he intended. Moderation consists of approving requests to join (it is quite simple to filer spam bot registrations vs real users) and to clean out the occasional spam post.

If anyone would prefer to do this task, feel free to email and I will happily hand over the keys.

Also, I never received the message you send to me earlier. It must have ended up in the yahoo spam filter or something. . . :-(

Feel free to message me at timwessman at hp.com if you'd like.

--

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group designing and building new calculators, the views and comments expressed here are my own.

>read "Or it might be that this site isn't where *most* the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . ."

Actually, depending on how you look at that, it is still ambiguous. I was using "most" as a numerical value, not a superlative. What I was trying to say was "where the highest number of knowledgable 50g users are is..."

TW

Are we getting a course in Scientific Calculators or are we getting a course in semantic English? Common' guys. Let's get on with what this site was meant to be for. Otherwise expect a natural migration to better places.

SV

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <timwessman@...> wrote:
>
> >read "Or it might be that this site isn't where *most* the knowledgeable people that use the 50g hang out at. . ."
>
>
> Actually, depending on how you look at that, it is still ambiguous. I was using "most" as a numerical value, not a superlative. What I was trying to say was "where the highest number of knowledgable 50g users are is..."
>
> TW
>

I recently came across "HP48 Insights" by William C. Wickes. The problem with the HP48 is it does so much; programming, calculus, the solver, statistics - it's a really amazing thing. Isn't the real problem that it takes such effort to learn to use it? But these books (2 volumes) are well titled; they do give insights into how and why things are done in these machines.
The calculator I've used most over the years is the HP200LX. I have equations stretching back 20 years - of course some are not useful, but some are. That's one thing I find an advantage over a PC based solution - you have all the history with you.
I don't know whether TI or Casio or Sharp have better calculators - I guess you have to make a decision and go with it. I doubt that many people would learn how to use more than one of these calculators properly.

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, Alan Golightly <alanthegringo@...> wrote:

>
> I work part time as a math tutor at a local college.  I get funny looks from the kids who see my 26 year old HP-15C.
> "Where is the equal key?"
>
>
> ________________________________

Do you answer them with the most adequate reply:

"HP calculators are without equals"?


CBVG

You mean RPN... I was tempted by the new HP39GII with a grey scale screen; colour screens seem to be power hungry but a grey scale screen would improve the appearance of the HP50.

It's interesting, we know HP for RPN (in calculators); but one of the strengths of the HP50 is the algebraic mode.

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, Fatih Can <f_can2003@...> wrote:
>
> Having had a very happy relationship with my HP 50g, I still think it is right time for HP to come up with a new model with larger colour screen, much-easier to push buttons and a lot of material on RPM.  After all it is what it makes special the calc.  I wonder if anyone younger that 25 knows about this mode at all....
>  
> Fatih
>
> From: willowvst <willowvst@...>
> To: 50g@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 2:04 AM
> Subject: [50g] Re: Application Vs Hardware
>
>
>  
>
>
> I recently came across "HP48 Insights" by William C. Wickes. The problem with the HP48 is it does so much; programming, calculus, the solver, statistics - it's a really amazing thing. Isn't the real problem that it takes such effort to learn to use it? But these books (2 volumes) are well titled; they do give insights into how and why things are done in these machines.
> The calculator I've used most over the years is the HP200LX. I have equations stretching back 20 years - of course some are not useful, but some are. That's one thing I find an advantage over a PC based solution - you have all the history with you.
> I don't know whether TI or Casio or Sharp have better calculators - I guess you have to make a decision and go with it. I doubt that many people would learn how to use more than one of these calculators properly.
>

Tried the HP15c- found it the worst of all worlds. Good calculator, but you could never remember what your program was about. I suspect HP have things about right with the new HP39GII, for those who need advanced maths and programmability. Still learning about my HP48GII.

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "vincentgoudreault" <vgoudreault@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, Alan Golightly <alanthegringo@> wrote:
> >
> > I work part time as a math tutor at a local college.  I get funny looks from the kids who see my 26 year old HP-15C.
> > "Where is the equal key?"
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
>
>
> Do you answer them with the most adequate reply:
>
> "HP calculators are without equals"?
>
>
> CBVG
>

--- In 50g@yahoogroups.com, "willowvst" <willowvst@...> wrote:

>
> Tried the HP15c- found it the worst of all worlds. Good calculator, but you could never remember what your program was about. I suspect HP have things about right with the new HP39GII, for those who need advanced maths and programmability. Still learning about my HP48GII.
>
>

I am not sure about that. The ENTER key on the 39 is still in the wrong place and of the wrong size.



CBVG

I believe it is RPL for the HP-50.