Eric,
Paul does have the basic feel correct: too damn complicated. Musicians do
give a rat's ass about DHCP, ARP, etc...
Besides, you have almost completely negelected to mention cost. You did say:
"These days, (starting in 1990 or so) plenty of sources of cheap MII
transcevier chips..."
but the comparison to the hardware and software that is currently needed to
support MIDI is an order of magnitude greater. That is a huge hurdle that
needs to be solved. Remember the venture capital Lone Wolf company? They
tried it and failed miserably.
MIDI was developed (what 16 years ago??) with a good balance of features
that manufacturers could swallow. There were several deviations (Oberheim
digital bus, Roland DCB, Voyetra XLR MIDI connectors) but none of these
"took."
Tony Karavidas
Encore Electronics
http://www.encoreelectronics.comDesigners of "The best MIDI to CV converter on the planet." -Keyboard Oct.
1997
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-mode [mailto:alt_mode@...]
> Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 2:37 PM
> To: motm@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [motm] MIDI sucks (get your attention?)
>
>
> Paul,
>
> You are confusing TCP/IP with Ethernet. Ethernet is a CSMA/CD
> technology (Carrier
> Sense Multiple Access with Collision Detection). A shared
> Ethernet does allow other
> nodes to "hear" each other on the same wire but the backoff and retransmit
> mechanisms are quite fast. You can also solve congestion
> problems with an Ethernet
> switch.
>
> The Internet Protocol (IP) doesn't care whether it is run on a
> shared network or a
> point-to-point network. When you dial up to your ISP, you are
> running a point to
> point link. If you have a cable modem you are on a shared
> network. IP works the
> same in either case. The Transmission Control Protocol (TCP)
> runs on top of IP and
> provides reiliability, windowing, and "sessions" or
> "connections". When you load a
> web page, you are creating a TCP connection to the server over
> IP. It is likely
> that your TCP/IP connection runs over a variety of shared and
> point-to-point media
> to get from your home PC to the server. [Sorry if this is basic
> stuff unrelated to
> synths but the Internet has gotten big enough that misinformation
> about how it works
> spreads too freely and I kinda feel obligated to explain this
> stuff when it gets
> twisted.]
>
> Additionally, the configuration problems can be fairly easily
> solved. You don't
> need to worry about the Ethernet MAC addresses, they are resolved
> with the Address
> Resolution Protocol (ARP) that is fairly simple. When it comes
> to assigning IP
> addresses to devices, that can be a bit more complicated but it
> can be automated
> with DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol). [You think
> synths had acronym
> overload, just get into a room with a bunch of networking geeks
> and you'll get TLA'd
> to death ;)]
>
> Besides, a toaster controller for my MOTM might have some
> interesting creative
> possibilities...when the bagel is done, the EG fires and the 700
> switches the 320
> LFO shape... ;^}
>
> Eric
>
> --- "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...> wrote:
> > What I don't understand is why you'd ∗want∗ to make MIDI act
> like TCP/IP...
> >
> > TCP/IP messages are, if I understand / recall correctly,
> broadcast to all
> > machines on a network. You send a packet with a target address, that
> > message gets sent to ∗every∗ other machine connected to the
> net, and ∗each∗
> > machine must figure out whether it cares about the message.
> And if there's
> > a collision-- throw your hands up and try again after a random delay has
> > passed. And every machine on your network having a unique ID (which is
> > handled by the network card at present)...
> >
> > I can just see it! You get your brand new Korglandsoniq
> Groteous2000, and
> > you want to have it control that old Memorymoof machine in the
> corner... but
> > damnit! What what the 'moofs ID again? {285a-829b-dc9a}? Or was it
> > {82b9-285b-dc9a}? (And you thought setup was a hassle NOW!)
> >
> > MIDI is point-to-point. No collisions. No IDs. If a messages
> reaches a
> > target, it was intended to get there. You have a MIDI box to
> route messages
> > to targets. Its MUCH easier to centrally configure.
> >
> > The big problem with MIDI isn't that its not distributed like
> TCP/IP-- its
> > that its ∗slow∗. Damned slow. Slow enough that it uses those
> crappy serial
> > interfaces on your computer. A faster version of MIDI is what's called
> > for-- still no collisions to worry about, and you could route to more
> > machines than possible today.
> >
> > Besides, I don't want my toaster talking to my Waldorf Pulse. ;)
> >
> > --PBr
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:The Old Crow [SMTP:oldcrow@...]
> > > Sent:Friday, August 11, 2000 9:31 AM
> > > To:motm@egroups.com
> > > Subject:Re: [motm] MIDI sucks (get your attention?)
> > >
> > >
> > > Analog control woes notwithstanding, the main reason I view
> MIDI with
> > > some considerable criticism is that for a networking
> protocol, it ∗blows∗.
> > > I never will understand why they didn't go with some
> Manchester scheme to
> > > provide collision and drop error handling. It is not that
> difficult to
> > > implement: the Apple Desktop Bus used on Macs to this day
> (and nearly as
> > > old as MIDI) achieve it.
> > >
> > > These days, (starting in 1990 or so) plenty of sources of cheap MII
> > > transcevier chips to fashion ethernet connections exist: it would cost
> > > next to nothing to cram one in a keyboard and use a ∗real∗ network
> > > protocol like TCP/IP to run the show. You don't even have to
> abandon the
> > > MIDI message structure--just encapsulate it in the IP packets.
> > >
> > > I hope that one day a true network physical layer like
> ethernet makes it
> > > into new instruments. And for the millions of old instruments--an
> > > ethernet to MIDI-hardware adapter (which are cheap and easy
> to make, look
> > > at the dinky little thing from www.picoweb.net!) is no problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > --Crow, dreaming of the day they put real LAN hardware into the gear
> > >
> > > /∗∗/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>