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Subject: RE: [motm] MIDI sucks (get your attention?)

From: alt-mode <alt_mode@...>
Date: 2000-08-11

Paul,

You are confusing TCP/IP with Ethernet. Ethernet is a CSMA/CD technology (Carrier
Sense Multiple Access with Collision Detection). A shared Ethernet does allow other
nodes to "hear" each other on the same wire but the backoff and retransmit
mechanisms are quite fast. You can also solve congestion problems with an Ethernet
switch.

The Internet Protocol (IP) doesn't care whether it is run on a shared network or a
point-to-point network. When you dial up to your ISP, you are running a point to
point link. If you have a cable modem you are on a shared network. IP works the
same in either case. The Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) runs on top of IP and
provides reiliability, windowing, and "sessions" or "connections". When you load a
web page, you are creating a TCP connection to the server over IP. It is likely
that your TCP/IP connection runs over a variety of shared and point-to-point media
to get from your home PC to the server. [Sorry if this is basic stuff unrelated to
synths but the Internet has gotten big enough that misinformation about how it works
spreads too freely and I kinda feel obligated to explain this stuff when it gets
twisted.]

Additionally, the configuration problems can be fairly easily solved. You don't
need to worry about the Ethernet MAC addresses, they are resolved with the Address
Resolution Protocol (ARP) that is fairly simple. When it comes to assigning IP
addresses to devices, that can be a bit more complicated but it can be automated
with DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol). [You think synths had acronym
overload, just get into a room with a bunch of networking geeks and you'll get TLA'd
to death ;)]

Besides, a toaster controller for my MOTM might have some interesting creative
possibilities...when the bagel is done, the EG fires and the 700 switches the 320
LFO shape... ;^}

Eric

--- "Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)" <noise@...> wrote:
> What I don't understand is why you'd ∗want∗ to make MIDI act like TCP/IP...
>
> TCP/IP messages are, if I understand / recall correctly, broadcast to all
> machines on a network. You send a packet with a target address, that
> message gets sent to ∗every∗ other machine connected to the net, and ∗each∗
> machine must figure out whether it cares about the message. And if there's
> a collision-- throw your hands up and try again after a random delay has
> passed. And every machine on your network having a unique ID (which is
> handled by the network card at present)...
>
> I can just see it! You get your brand new Korglandsoniq Groteous2000, and
> you want to have it control that old Memorymoof machine in the corner... but
> damnit! What what the 'moofs ID again? {285a-829b-dc9a}? Or was it
> {82b9-285b-dc9a}? (And you thought setup was a hassle NOW!)
>
> MIDI is point-to-point. No collisions. No IDs. If a messages reaches a
> target, it was intended to get there. You have a MIDI box to route messages
> to targets. Its MUCH easier to centrally configure.
>
> The big problem with MIDI isn't that its not distributed like TCP/IP-- its
> that its ∗slow∗. Damned slow. Slow enough that it uses those crappy serial
> interfaces on your computer. A faster version of MIDI is what's called
> for-- still no collisions to worry about, and you could route to more
> machines than possible today.
>
> Besides, I don't want my toaster talking to my Waldorf Pulse. ;)
>
> --PBr
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:The Old Crow [SMTP:oldcrow@...]
> > Sent:Friday, August 11, 2000 9:31 AM
> > To:motm@egroups.com
> > Subject:Re: [motm] MIDI sucks (get your attention?)
> >
> >
> > Analog control woes notwithstanding, the main reason I view MIDI with
> > some considerable criticism is that for a networking protocol, it ∗blows∗.
> > I never will understand why they didn't go with some Manchester scheme to
> > provide collision and drop error handling. It is not that difficult to
> > implement: the Apple Desktop Bus used on Macs to this day (and nearly as
> > old as MIDI) achieve it.
> >
> > These days, (starting in 1990 or so) plenty of sources of cheap MII
> > transcevier chips to fashion ethernet connections exist: it would cost
> > next to nothing to cram one in a keyboard and use a ∗real∗ network
> > protocol like TCP/IP to run the show. You don't even have to abandon the
> > MIDI message structure--just encapsulate it in the IP packets.
> >
> > I hope that one day a true network physical layer like ethernet makes it
> > into new instruments. And for the millions of old instruments--an
> > ethernet to MIDI-hardware adapter (which are cheap and easy to make, look
> > at the dinky little thing from www.picoweb.net!) is no problem.
> >
> >
> > --Crow, dreaming of the day they put real LAN hardware into the gear
> >
> > /∗∗/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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