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Just some observations from the peanut gallery:
There is a fundamental question that needs to be answered: is the S2 sending bad data which is causing the ‘650 to crash, or is the S2 sending valid data which is causing the ‘650 to crash? The MIDI Specification states that any MIDI-receiving device needs to be able to not crash regardless of whatever data, good or bad, is sent to it. However, if the S2 is emitting bad data, the problem becomes more difficult to reproduce and diagnose at a distance (i.e. without Jeffery and the S2 in the same room).
The text file that Ben posted shows a fairly dense stream of mostly control-change messages. Any receiving device should be able to receive this stream without crashing (of course). Note, however, that whatever software he used to record this data could be sanitizing it, i.e. discarding bad MIDI packets and not presenting them in the text file. In other words, the text file doesn’t necessarily show what the S2 is sending. It probably does, but maybe it doesn’t.
Any sequencer application should be able to record and play back the data stream, and save it as an SMF that can be sent to Jeffery. Again, however, one has to be sure that the sequencer program(s) are reproducing exactly what the S2 is sending, and at the same rate. This can be verified within Ben’s rig by recording and playing back the data, seeing whether the playback reproduces the crash. Ideally Ben and Jeffery will use the same program; not all MIDI software is created equal. Also, any well-tempered [pun intended] MIDI sequencer will not send bad data under any circumstances. In other words, removing bad data from the data stream is a feature of correctly operating MIDI software, not a bug.
Note also that the MIDI interface(s) in use may sanitize bad data, and/or generate it! This is another reason to attempt to reproduce the crash by recording the data in a PC and playing it back, i.e. another reason to verify that your test equipment can be trusted. (I blamed trashed data and other obscure problems on a popular piece of software for a couple of years until I eventually discovered that my 8x8 interface by a big-name manufacturer could not pass System Exclusive messages correctly.)
In short, problems like this can be difficult to diagnose and reproduce, and you can’t necessarily trust anything in the system, hardware or software.
--Adam
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 7:34 AM
To: Ben Stuyts
Cc: MOTM List
Subject: Re: [motm] Extra hour update
General question:
it there a way to caputure the MIDI data and then "play it back" to the '650? So we can use the MIDI data file without having a S2, to verify
the issue? PC/Windows? In this way, we can have the "aggressor" S2 file that we that send to the '650 to cause the error.
Paul S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Stuyts
To: Paul Schreiber
Cc: MOTM List
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Extra hour update
Hi Paul,
We've been over this back in 2009. It's not the clock or active sense that the S2 sends out when it's idle. Option b), it only crashes when:
- 650 is connected to S2
- turn 650 on
- wait a bit
- turn on S2
So it is something that the S2 sends on boot. I've sent you a log file back then from a midi monitor. (Also sent it to Jeffrey last week.) I'm attaching it here again.
Kind regards,
Ben
On 6 nov. 2011, at 14:17, Paul Schreiber wrote:
DOes it crash when:
a) the S2 is powered up, but the '650 is not. When the '650 powers up, then it crashes
b) the '650 is powered up first, then when the S2 gets powered up it crashes
If it is (a) then chances are you have 'running status' enabled on the S2. Turn that off, it's not needed and that migh fix the issue
Paul S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Stuyts
To: Paul Schreiber
Cc: MOTM List
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Extra hour update
Hi Paul,
The main problem I have with the 650 is the crash when powering up with a Gem S2 keyboard connected. I mailed Jeffrey the details about this. I'm not sure that anything has been done in the 1.4 beta about this.
Picking up a dead Gem S2 later today, for parts to keep my current one working. Poly-AT is awesome. :-)
Kind regards,
Ben
I'm holding off upgrading in
On 6 nov. 2011, at 05:03, Paul Schreiber wrote:
Since in the US we are "falling back" 1 hour tonight, I managed to unpack my PC and get back on
the Internet via new AT&T UVerse service (meh....liked FIOS better but not available here).
I was hoping the move back to the 'old house' on Quail Ridge would not be as tedious as the move in April. I was
wrong. It will be tomorrow until things are moved out of the 'new' house but very little unpacking has taken place.
So, I will need 1 more week to start back to shipping. I am taking a few days off next week and the week of Thanksgiving
to play catch-up.
For those of you looking at the MOTM-650 V1.4 beta: any comments? Has anyone actually done the upgrade yet? I am
holding off shipping '650s so that the beta testers can verify improvement.
Paul S.
Hi Paul,
We've been over this back in 2009. It's not the clock or active sense that the S2 sends out when it's idle. Option b), it only crashes when:
- 650 is connected to S2
- turn 650 on
- wait a bit
- turn on S2
So it is something that the S2 sends on boot. I've sent you a log file back then from a midi monitor. (Also sent it to Jeffrey last week.) I'm attaching it here again.
Kind regards,
Ben
On 6 nov. 2011, at 14:17, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>
> DOes it crash when:
>
> a) the S2 is powered up, but the '650 is not. When the '650 powers up, then it crashes
>
> b) the '650 is powered up first, then when the S2 gets powered up it crashes
>
> If it is (a) then chances are you have 'running status' enabled on the S2. Turn that off, it's not needed and that migh fix the issue
>
> Paul S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ben Stuyts
> To: Paul Schreiber
> Cc: MOTM List
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [motm] Extra hour update
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> The main problem I have with the 650 is the crash when powering up with a Gem S2 keyboard connected. I mailed Jeffrey the details about this. I'm not sure that anything has been done in the 1.4 beta about this.
>
> Picking up a dead Gem S2 later today, for parts to keep my current one working. Poly-AT is awesome. :-)
>
> Kind regards,
> Ben
>
> I'm holding off upgrading in
> On 6 nov. 2011, at 05:03, Paul Schreiber wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Since in the US we are "falling back" 1 hour tonight, I managed to unpack my PC and get back on
>> the Internet via new AT&T UVerse service (meh....liked FIOS better but not available here).
>>
>> I was hoping the move back to the 'old house' on Quail Ridge would not be as tedious as the move in April. I was
>> wrong. It will be tomorrow until things are moved out of the 'new' house but very little unpacking has taken place.
>>
>> So, I will need 1 more week to start back to shipping. I am taking a few days off next week and the week of Thanksgiving
>> to play catch-up.
>>
>> For those of you looking at the MOTM-650 V1.4 beta: any comments? Has anyone actually done the upgrade yet? I am
>> holding off shipping '650s so that the beta testers can verify improvement.
>>
>> Paul S.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>