--
derrick espino
phlizmo@... - email
(925) 695-2020 x7367 - voicemail/fax
I just wanted to say with all the discussion of bog knob vs. little knob and this layout vs. that, we should all be thankful that the lousy thing is finally gonna be available. I cant wait to get mine!!!
Derrick Espino
-----Original Message-----
From:
motm@yahoogroups.comSent: 5 Nov 2003 22:47:27 -0000
To:
motm@yahoogroups.comSubject: [motm] Digest Number 1871
There are 26 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. RE: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
From:
keithw@... 2. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: "strohs56k" <
strohs@...>
3. Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
From:
ixqy@... 4. FW: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
From: "Tkacs, Ken" <
ken.tkacs@...>
5. FW: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
From: "cormallen" <
motm@...>
6. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: "mate_stubb" <
mate_stubb@...>
7. RE: Testing your studio
From: Chris Walcott <
cwalcott@...>
8. And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
From: Adam Schabtach <
adam@...>
9. FS layout
From: rogers t <
winky_dinglehoffer@...>
10. Re: Re: Frequency Shifter group question
From:
gareII@... 11. Re: Expressionist update?
From:
ixqy@... 12. Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
From: "Mike Marsh" <
mmarsh@...>
13. Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: Mike Estee <
mikest@...>
14. Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: Joe Pavone <
fuzztone@...>
15. correction
From: rogers t <
winky_dinglehoffer@...>
16. RE: Expressionist update?
From: "Tony Karavidas" <
tony@...>
17. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: "endmarketing" <
endmarketing@...>
18. The Freq, Layouts, Demos
From: "elle_webb" <
elle_webb@...>
19. RE: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
From: "Tony Karavidas" <
tony@...>
20. RE: The Freq, Layouts, Demos
From: "Tony Karavidas" <
tony@...>
21. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: "neutrino000" <
neutrino000@...>
22. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: "strohs56k" <
strohs@...>
23. Re: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
From: Adam Schabtach <
adam@...>
24. Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
From: Scott Juskiw <
scott@...>
25. RE: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shiftertopic
From: "Tony Karavidas" <
tony@...>
26. Another viewpoint - Frequency Shifter group question
From: "J. Larry Hendry" <
jlarryh@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:58 +0000 (GMT)
From:
keithw@...Subject: RE: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
In-Reply-To: <
E1AHI7P-0003CI-Dg@...>
I love Seth's layout I am afraid Tony, I would go for that
although I might shift the clip LED above the gain knob???
regards
Keith
http://home.freeuk.net/lowpass________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:07:23 -0000
From: "strohs56k" <
strohs@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Karavidas" <tony@e...> wrote:
>
> This was truly one of the most constructive emails I've read all
> night. Seth, in a way of voicing his opinion about the current
> layout, offered a nice alternative.
I put a little more thought into this and I think I have some
improvements.
Here is the tweaked drawing:
http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3grid.GIF
The second drawing (with grid in the name) shows the design on top of
the "standard" MOTM grid lines.
As you can see, this design actually fits pretty well on the MOTM
grid. The big frequency knob is centered between what would be the
upper four knob positions on the MOTM grid. And for the small knobs,
the lowest row matches up vertically with the lowest row of knobs on
the MOTM grid. The jack field is exactly on the grid.
What I changed:
Put the input jacks (signal and CV) in a group at the left and the
outputs (local oscillator and shifted signals) in a group at the
right. I think this is the normal left to right signal flow
convention.
I moved the fine shift knob to the right of the big shift knob. This
better matches the convention of oscillators with the coarse tune on
the left / fine tune on the right.
I moved the gain knob to the left of the big shift knob. I think this
better matches the left to right signal flow.
The CV shift knob has therefor moved below the big shift knob. I
think this has good association.
The sine and cosine amplitude knobs (for the local oscillator outputs)
are now on the left side. (This matches up with the local oscillator
outputs in the jack field.)
The up and down feedback knobs are now on the right side. (Again,
matches up with the frequency shifted signal outputs in the jack
field.)
I moved all of the LEDs to the left side of the panel to match the new
positions of their associated knobs.
This version has a little less symmetry than my first stab but is much
more logical in terms of signal flow and grouping of like
functionality.
Also, this might make things a little easier for Tony because there is
a lot more space opened up between the lower set of knobs for
components hidden behind the panel. Also, this is actually a little
closer to his proposed design as far as knob grouping.
Questions for Tony / I think some of these may have been asked and
discussed previously but just in case...
Because the design is "thru zero" - I assume a positive CV makes the
up output up shifted (and down output down shifted) where as a
negative CV makes the up output down shifted (and down output up
shifted)
If so, should the main shift knob be "bipolar" - no shift at center,
negative CV to the left, positive CV to the right? (Should the fine
shift knob also be a "bipolar" control with 0 at center?)
Further, should the "freq CV" knob be a reversing attenuator? (Zero
at center.)
Can we have two more local oscillator outputs for inverse sine and
inverse cosine?
seth
PS: yes, there was a FSlayout2.GIF but just as I was about to upload
the drawing I decided I didn't really like it, pushed some stuff
around again, and it became version 3 :)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:32:42 EST
From: ixqy@...
Subject: Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
Hi Tony,
Not that I'm in the position to buy this module at the moment, I would much
prefer something along the lines of Seth's layout.
Thanks,
Andrew
tony@... writes:
> OK folks, you want it to happen your way then pony up some time and do a
> drawing like Seth did! If you all think his drawing is the one, then let me
> know and I'll look into changing the layout. I don't know if it's possible
> to re-arrange the parts behind Seth's layout, but I will look into it.
===========
Seth's FS layout:
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout.GIF
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:36:48 -0500
From: "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@...>
Subject: FW: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
>> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout.GIF
I like this layout ∗a lot!∗
(There; I've spoken up.)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:34:02 -0000
From: "cormallen" <motm@...>
Subject: FW: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tkacs, Ken" <ken.tkacs@j...> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout.GIF
>
>
> I like this layout ∗a lot!∗
>
> (There; I've spoken up.)
Me too!
Harry
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:21:25 -0000
From: "mate_stubb" <mate_stubb@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
I like this revised one very much.
Moe
> I put a little more thought into this and I think I have some
> improvements.
>
> Here is the tweaked drawing:
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3grid.GIF
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:33:25 -0800
From: Chris Walcott <cwalcott@...>
Subject: RE: Testing your studio
I decided that Im going to ask my dealer for a refund even though I
already installed the foam with glue. I really feel that my dealer and
auralex misrepresented the product. Im probably going to go with the
realTrap solution myself. Id be very interested in hearing how they work
out for you.
- chris
-----Original Message-----
From: alt-mode [mailto:yahoo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:52 PM
To: Chris Walcott
Cc: MOTM List
Subject: RE: [motm] Testing your studio
Those are some pretty expensive bass traps! I ordered some MiniTraps from
RealTraps.com today. I'll let you all know how it works out. I was
impressed with what I have read on recording.org forum on studio and control
room acoustics and had some nice email exchanges with Ethan, the head of
RealTraps.com before ordering. So far, so good.
Eric
At 10:07 AM 11/3/2003 -0800, Chris Walcott wrote:
sorry for the late response, been really busy and haven't been able to keep
up with all my lists.
I ended up using 12" foam from Auralex. I now wish I had done some more
research. This is what I wish I had gotten:
http://www.rpginc.com/products/modex/index.htm
<http://www.rpginc.com/products/modex/index.htm>
- chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Estee [mailto:mikest@... <mailto:mikest@...> ]
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:26 AM
> To: Chris Walcott
> Cc: MOTM List
> Subject: Re: [motm] Testing your studio
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2003, at 10:09 AM, Chris Walcott wrote:
>
> > Another thing to check out is the recording.org forum on acoustics.
> > One thing I learned is that no amount of foam is going to work as a
> > bass trap (and I wish I had figured that out before I bought 2 boxes
> > of 12" foam.)
>
> What did you end up using? I've been looking at MiniTraps from
> RealTraps. The seem to have gotten decent reviews. If anyone has had
> positive or negetive experience with these please speak up! Bass is a
> huge problem in my little studio. When the motm hits the resonant
> frequency of the room it quite literally shakes the house.
>
> --mikes
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:38:59 -0700
From: Adam Schabtach <adam@...>
Subject: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
Hi Tony--
> Isn't 2a the same as 2? They "don't care enough" because "they aren't
> interested", right?
Right. That's why it's "2a" and not "3".
> People not voting say volumes about the choices they have to vote on.
True enough. Or it may say that they voted in the past and felt that their
vote had no effect, and hence decided that it was not worth voting again.
> If you don't complain about a problem it won't get addressed.
Regarding the UEG, I didn't complain because the reason for the button's
behavior is explained in the documentation. Since it was apparent from that
explanation that you had put some thought into the issue and decided upon
how you were going to handle it, there seemed little reason to complain,
since it wasn't something that you appeared likely to address again.
Regarding the Expressionist, in which the button bounce is a far more
annoying problem, I believe that I did complain and my complaint went
unanswered.
> The reason the UEG s/w rev came to light was because several people asked
> for features and there was a common thread to them. I did that for free. I
> wasn't fixing problems; I was adding features. I don't think many other
> companies do that without charging for it. Yes there are some, but it's not
> common.
This is something of a moot point to me, since there have been no software
revs to either product since I purchased them. Yes, it is great that in the
past you have added features to your products for free. In my case, the
added features were something that I received when I purchased the product.
Also, I wrote to you not long ago suggesting a feature enhancement for the
Expressionist and I didn't even receive an acknowledgement. Now, this isn't
a big deal in itself--it's certainly something that other people have
suggested and I know all too well how much email one has to deal with these
days--but it certainly tints my impression of how much consideration you
give to customer input. So my net experience with Encore Electronics may
well be different from someone who has been doing business with you longer
than I. ∗shrug∗ Your customers speak highly of you and your products, which
is in part why I purchased them.
> Please, everyone, these are discussions by reasonable adults. You don't have
> to feel like we're fighting or dissing (is that how you spell that??) each
> other. They're just points of view that have to be communicated in an awful
> way...this would be so much better at a user's group, or even on the phone.
> I think the outcome of all this will be better product.
I certainly agree with all of that, and I apologize if I sounded rather rude
in my previous posting. There's not really much of a conclusion to be drawn
from all of this, but I (did) have to say that IMNSHO counting a "silent
contingency" is an extremely tenuous way to make product-design decisions.
But as Larry said, I have my own reasons for being unlikely to purchase a
frequency shifter and hence hereby remove myself from the fray.
Regards,
--Adam
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Schabtach [mailto:adam@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:21 PM
> To: 'MOTM List'
> Subject: Re: [motm] Frequency Shifter group question
>
>
>> When several people ask for larger knobs, there is a silent
>> contingency that is also counted. When people don't reply they tell me one
> of two things:
>>
>> 1. They didn't see the message (which is unlikely if they are subbed
>> to the group and are regular participants) 2. They don't care enough
>> about the issue to make a comment.
>
> 2a. They aren't interested in the product.
>
> How on Earth can you count a "silent contingency"? That's like saying that
> everybody who doesn't vote in an election would vote for the same candidate
> if they did vote.
>
> Just because I haven't complained about the horrendous switch contact bounce
> problems in your products doesn't mean that I like it, or that I don't care
> about it.
>
> --Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:13:12 -0800 (PST)
From: rogers t <winky_dinglehoffer@...>
Subject: FS layout
FWIW:
I thought the eskimo.com layout looked nice. I worry
a little about the placement of the gain knob, but I
suspect it might not be a problem in regular use. It
might be a good idea for Tony to experiment with
whatever layout he chooses to see if it's comfortable.
As to the schematic issue: I don't see this as a huge
deal. I had a problem with my UEG (entirely my fault)
some time ago & Tony handled the repair quickly & free
of charge. And since the FS is digital/analog hybrid,
I don't think repair by the casual diyer would be
terribly feasible.
That's all.
Tom
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:18:53 -0500
From: gareII@...
Subject: Re: Re: Frequency Shifter group question
I'd have to agree with Chub on this..except his choice of colors, pink would be better.
Not to open another can of worms or irritate anybody..but most seem concerned with appearance. How does it sound ? What all can be done with it ? Etc.
What if the module sounded absolutely fantastic, and even gave you the ball scores..but looked like a '53 Buick.
Ok..I'll crawl back in my hole now
Gary
>
> Tony-
>
> Here's my request- sell me one. Really, I don't care if it's pink
> with faucet handle knobs, but the layout shown on the Encore site
> appears to be quite workable. If a control is so twitchy that a
> larger knob is needed, perhaps a vernier assembly or multi-turn pot
> is in order.
>
> I'm a big guy (no, really!), but the UEG knobs aren't too small for
> careful adjustment. Of course, I'm not ∗too∗ careful all the time.
>
> Chub
>
> ps-lime green would be acceptable and NO tick marks are necessary...
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:36:07 EST
From: ixqy@...
Subject: Re: Expressionist update?
tony@encoreelectronics wrote:
> > If you don't complain about a problem it won't get addressed.
Well, since we're on a roll.. ;-)
Will the Expressionist ever have another firmware update? I would really
like to see the poly and mono modes fixed (playing >2 notes legato will not
trigger new notes), and also would like more resolution in the fast portamento
range settings.
One other thing that would be a nice addition (though less important than
the above two improvements) is a way to easily get to the "store" page, and also
the main preset page.
Thanks,
Andrew
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:42:57 -0000
From: "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
Hi Tony -
I really liked your response to this flurry of mails. Thanks!
I also really liked Seth's layout, so count my vote for this one.
Mike, happy UEG customer
PS - You might have to count my vote as half, though. I have a Kyma
that does FS (among some other brilliant stuff) so I might not
immediately be in the market for yours. On the other hand, it's
always much more convenient to have the beast right there in the
rack...
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Karavidas" <tony@e...> wrote:
> This was truly one of the most constructive emails I've read all
night.
> Seth, in a way of voicing his opinion about the current layout,
offered a
> nice alternative.
>
> OK folks, you want it to happen your way then pony up some time and
do a
> drawing like Seth did! If you all think his drawing is the one,
then let me
> know and I'll look into changing the layout. I don't know if it's
possible
> to re-arrange the parts behind Seth's layout, but I will look into
it.
>
> Regards,
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: strohs56k [mailto:strohs@e...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:31 PM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [motm] Re: Frequency Shifter (knob layout idea)
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Karavidas" <tony@e...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm working on the final sheet metal and wanted your opinions
about
> > the hatch marks around the knobs [...]
>
> My thoughts on knob sizes / knob placement:
>
>
> Someone suggested using the standard MOTM knob grid / making the
unit look
> like the 480. DO NOT DO THIS...instead:
>
> Do like Paul suggests and, for the main frequency control, use a
larger than
> MOTM size knob. (Probably a PKES140 which is 1.5"
> diameter at its base.) Place this single large size knob near the
top
> center of the panel. Use the combination of large tick marks with
smaller
> "sub" tick marks for this knob.
>
> Use your normal (small size) knobs for everything else. Arrange
these in
> the space below the single big knob / above the jack field. Use
the single
> set of thinner tick marks on all of these knobs.
>
> Jack placement is fine but maybe center the sine and cosine outputs
as
> someone else already suggested.
>
>
> Here is a rough layout drawing to better illustrate my idea:
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout.GIF
>
> The three dots in the triangular arrangement are supposed to be the
> LEDs. The top LED is clip (positioned just below the gain knob)
and
> the left and right LEDs are the sine and cosine, positioned near
the
> associated knobs.
>
>
> In my opinion this layout looks really nice, it is functional /
plenty
> of space around the knobs, and you even get to use your stock of
> existing small knobs (with the exception of the one big knob) which
> is, of course, in the tradition of classic frequency shifters.
>
> seth
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:10:28 -0800
From: Mike Estee <mikest@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
Me three.
On Nov 5, 2003, at 8:21 AM, mate_stubb wrote:
> I like this revised one very much.
>
> Moe
>
>> I put a little more thought into this and I think I have some
>> improvements.
>>
>> Here is the tweaked drawing:
>>
>> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
>>
>> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3grid.GIF
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:44:03 -0500
From: Joe Pavone <fuzztone@...>
Subject: Re: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
OK, you have my vote also. Seth's layout is great - hope it can be done
or something close to it.
Honestly, I would probably buy it either way, but I'll be much much
happier with this layout w/ that big freq knob.
..jp
strohs56k wrote:
>--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Karavidas" <tony@e...> wrote:
>
>
>>This was truly one of the most constructive emails I've read all
>>night. Seth, in a way of voicing his opinion about the current
>>layout, offered a nice alternative.
>>
>>
>
>I put a little more thought into this and I think I have some
>improvements.
>
>Here is the tweaked drawing:
>
>http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
>
>http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3grid.GIF
>
>
>The second drawing (with grid in the name) shows the design on top of
>the "standard" MOTM grid lines.
>
>As you can see, this design actually fits pretty well on the MOTM
>grid. The big frequency knob is centered between what would be the
>upper four knob positions on the MOTM grid. And for the small knobs,
>the lowest row matches up vertically with the lowest row of knobs on
>the MOTM grid. The jack field is exactly on the grid.
>
>
>What I changed:
>
>Put the input jacks (signal and CV) in a group at the left and the
>outputs (local oscillator and shifted signals) in a group at the
>right. I think this is the normal left to right signal flow
>convention.
>
>I moved the fine shift knob to the right of the big shift knob. This
>better matches the convention of oscillators with the coarse tune on
>the left / fine tune on the right.
>
>I moved the gain knob to the left of the big shift knob. I think this
>better matches the left to right signal flow.
>
>The CV shift knob has therefor moved below the big shift knob. I
>think this has good association.
>
>The sine and cosine amplitude knobs (for the local oscillator outputs)
>are now on the left side. (This matches up with the local oscillator
>outputs in the jack field.)
>
>The up and down feedback knobs are now on the right side. (Again,
>matches up with the frequency shifted signal outputs in the jack
>field.)
>
>I moved all of the LEDs to the left side of the panel to match the new
>positions of their associated knobs.
>
>
>This version has a little less symmetry than my first stab but is much
>more logical in terms of signal flow and grouping of like
>functionality.
>
>Also, this might make things a little easier for Tony because there is
>a lot more space opened up between the lower set of knobs for
>components hidden behind the panel. Also, this is actually a little
>closer to his proposed design as far as knob grouping.
>
>
>Questions for Tony / I think some of these may have been asked and
>discussed previously but just in case...
>
>Because the design is "thru zero" - I assume a positive CV makes the
>up output up shifted (and down output down shifted) where as a
>negative CV makes the up output down shifted (and down output up
>shifted)
>
>If so, should the main shift knob be "bipolar" - no shift at center,
>negative CV to the left, positive CV to the right? (Should the fine
>shift knob also be a "bipolar" control with 0 at center?)
>
>Further, should the "freq CV" knob be a reversing attenuator? (Zero
>at center.)
>
>Can we have two more local oscillator outputs for inverse sine and
>inverse cosine?
>
>
>seth
>
>
>PS: yes, there was a FSlayout2.GIF but just as I was about to upload
>the drawing I decided I didn't really like it, pushed some stuff
>around again, and it became version 3 :)
>
>
>
>
>
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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:00:13 -0800 (PST)
From: rogers t <winky_dinglehoffer@...>
Subject: correction
Now that I think on it some more, Ithink Tony charged
me a nominal fee for repair on my UEG. I know this
isn't a big deal, but in the interest of accuracy, I
thought I'd mention it.
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:15:20 -0800
From: "Tony Karavidas" <tony@...>
Subject: RE: Expressionist update?
I'm not sure when, but yes it will get an update.
-----Original Message-----
From: ixqy@... [mailto:ixqy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:36 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Expressionist update?
tony@encoreelectronics wrote:
> > If you don't complain about a problem it won't get addressed.
Well, since we're on a roll.. ;-)
Will the Expressionist ever have another firmware update? I would really
like to see the poly and mono modes fixed (playing >2 notes legato will not
trigger new notes), and also would like more resolution in the fast
portamento range settings.
One other thing that would be a nice addition (though less important than
the above two improvements) is a way to easily get to the "store" page, and
also the main preset page.
Thanks,
Andrew
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:24:13 -0000
From: "endmarketing" <endmarketing@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
MY VOTE ~~~]]])))}}}---
http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
Very nice layout==Well thought out
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:45:38 -0000
From: "elle_webb" <elle_webb@...>
Subject: The Freq, Layouts, Demos
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "strohs56k" <strohs@e...> wrote:
> Here is the tweaked drawing:
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
>
This looks great!
Tony - I'm glad you're open to input on the format, & hope that
something like this is possible.
When can we hear The Freq in action?
________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:11:56 -0800
From: "Tony Karavidas" <tony@...>
Subject: RE: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Schabtach [mailto:adam@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:39 AM
> To: 'MOTM List'
> Subject: [motm] And here's my last posting on the Frequency
> Shifter topic
>
> Regarding the Expressionist, in which the button bounce is a
> far more annoying problem, I believe that I did complain and
> my complaint went unanswered.
Are you sure I ever received the email? I get tens of thousands of email
every year and it's very easy to loose one, have one eaten by a spam filter,
etc. If you didn't get a reply and it was something that bothered you, why
didn't you send another email saying "Hey Tony, did you get my last email
about issue x?" or send a read receipt request?
> This is something of a moot point to me, since there have
> been no software revs to either product since I purchased
> them. Yes, it is great that in the past you have added
> features to your products for free. In my case, the added
> features were something that I received when I purchased the product.
> Also, I wrote to you not long ago suggesting a feature
> enhancement for the Expressionist and I didn't even receive
> an acknowledgement. Now, this isn't a big deal in
> itself--it's certainly something that other people have
> suggested and I know all too well how much email one has to
> deal with these days--but it certainly tints my impression of
> how much consideration you give to customer input. So my net
> experience with Encore Electronics may well be different from
> someone who has been doing business with you longer than I.
> ∗shrug∗ Your customers speak highly of you and your products,
> which is in part why I purchased them.
Did your suggestion require an immediate response? Maybe it was a "hey I'd
like to see feature such and such in the Expressionist" and if I'm not
working on the Expressionist in the near term, I may just file it away for
review later in the year. Now look who is assuming a lack of response has
meaning?
> I certainly agree with all of that, and I apologize if I
> sounded rather rude in my previous posting. There's not
> really much of a conclusion to be drawn from all of this, but
> I (did) have to say that IMNSHO counting a "silent
> contingency" is an extremely tenuous way to make
> product-design decisions.
There is a conclusion to be drawn: I'm reviewing the layout of the FS
before committing it to production ∗because∗ of people speaking up on this
list.
> But as Larry said, I have my own reasons for being unlikely
> to purchase a frequency shifter and hence hereby remove
> myself from the fray.
>
> Regards,
> --Adam
OK.
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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:12:14 -0800
From: "Tony Karavidas" <tony@...>
Subject: RE: The Freq, Layouts, Demos
Well I was going to work on more demos, but now I'm working on a new layout.
:)
I'm trying to see if the parts will fit around those pots in their new
locations.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: elle_webb [mailto:elle_webb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:46 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] The Freq, Layouts, Demos
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "strohs56k" <strohs@e...> wrote:
> Here is the tweaked drawing:
>
> http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3.GIF
>
This looks great!
Tony - I'm glad you're open to input on the format, & hope that something
like this is possible.
When can we hear The Freq in action?
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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:56:37 -0000
From: "neutrino000" <neutrino000@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
I like the first layout better. This one:
http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout.GIF
The two new ones look nice, but a little off visually. Placing the
LEDs right on the edge looks kind of awkward to me. Also, I like the
jacks centered, as in the first layout. I have an idea, why not
offer the FS as a partial kit? Assembled and tested board, since
it's all SMT, but minus the pots, jacks, and LEDs. I would assume
those are not SMT for mechanical reasons, and are through hole board
mount (I could be wrong here). Then it would be relatively easy for
a DIYer to solder in wires to mount the pots, jacks, and LEDs in
whatever layout and format they choose, whether it be a Stooge panel,
Modcan, Blacet, .com, or whatever. You would then open the door to
many other customers who may have been considering this product, but
shy away because it's only available in MOTM format. You could then
offer assembled units in whatever layout you want, and not have to
worry about someone hacking it apart to change the faceplate. No
need to get lawyers involved, just give the "kit" a disclaimer that
you're not responsible for the DIYer mis-wiring pots, LEDs and such.
FWIW, I am actually more concerned with how the FS sounds, that's my
primary concern, but I am really, really picky when it comes to UI as
well. A fantastic sounding through-zero FS is such a bummer if the
UI is clunky. Just thought I'd throw that idea out there and see if
anything sticks.
KB
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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:44:58 -0000
From: "strohs56k" <strohs@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "neutrino000" <neutrino000@h...> wrote:
> I like the first layout better [...]
>
> The two new ones look nice, but a little off visually. Placing the
> LEDs right on the edge looks kind of awkward to me. Also, I like
> the jacks centered, as in the first layout [...]
>
> FWIW, I am actually more concerned with how the FS sounds, that's
> my primary concern, but I am really, really picky when it comes to
> UI as well. A fantastic sounding through-zero FS is such a bummer
> if the UI is clunky.
If you want "none clunky" UI, you really want my revised (v3) layout.
It is (visually) almost as good as the first one but I put much more
thought into what knobs should go where - as in, how the module is
actually used and making it consistent with the way other modules
work.
Not to suggest that this is possible (requires a little more support
circuitry) but you could fix the jack field symmetry like this:
http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3a.GIF
This would actually be a pretty cool feature because you now have all
four phases of a quadrature oscillator for other uses.
seth
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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:04:46 -0700
From: Adam Schabtach <adam@...>
Subject: Re: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shifter topic
>> Regarding the Expressionist, in which the button bounce is a
>> far more annoying problem, I believe that I did complain and
>> my complaint went unanswered.
>
> Are you sure I ever received the email?
Kind of hard for me to be sure about that, no? ;-)
> I get tens of thousands of email
> every year and it's very easy to loose one, have one eaten by a spam filter,
> etc. If you didn't get a reply and it was something that bothered you, why
> didn't you send another email saying "Hey Tony, did you get my last email
> about issue x?" or send a read receipt request?
Hey Tony, the PAGE button on my Expressionist bounces like crazy. Is there
anything that can be done about it? Should I just try some contact cleaner
on it for starters?
--Adam
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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:20:45 -0700
From: Scott Juskiw <scott@...>
Subject: Re: Frequency Shifter (improved layout idea)
This layout keeps getting better all the time. If the inverted SINE
and COS outputs aren't integral to the FS then some Stooge (or
Stooge-wannabe) will just hack a daughterboard for them anyway. So
might as well add them to the FS and fill up that jack space.
At 9:44 PM +0000 2003/11/05, strohs56k wrote:
>
>http://www.eskimo.com/~strohs/FSlayout3a.GIF
>
>This would actually be a pretty cool feature because you now have all
>four phases of a quadrature oscillator for other uses.
>
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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:47:10 -0800
From: "Tony Karavidas" <tony@...>
Subject: RE: And here's my last posting on the Frequency Shiftertopic
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Schabtach [mailto:adam@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:05 PM
> To: 'MOTM List'
> Subject: Re: [motm] And here's my last posting on the
> Frequency Shiftertopic
>
>
> >> Regarding the Expressionist, in which the button bounce is
> a far more
> >> annoying problem, I believe that I did complain and my
> complaint went
> >> unanswered.
> >
> > Are you sure I ever received the email?
>
> Kind of hard for me to be sure about that, no? ;-)
That's my point. You aren't sure whether or not I got it, but you state that
I ignored your email.
> > I get tens of thousands of email
> > every year and it's very easy to loose one, have one eaten
> by a spam
> > filter, etc. If you didn't get a reply and it was something that
> > bothered you, why didn't you send another email saying "Hey
> Tony, did
> > you get my last email about issue x?" or send a read
> receipt request?
>
> Hey Tony, the PAGE button on my Expressionist bounces like
> crazy. Is there anything that can be done about it? Should I
> just try some contact cleaner on it for starters?
You could try that for now. I will lengthen the debounce time when I get the
next update out. I just did a quick review of the Expressionist source code
and it looks like the debounce time was set to 3mS. It should probably be 10
or 20.
> --Adam
>
>
>
>
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Message: 26
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:55:30 -0600
From: "J. Larry Hendry" <jlarryh@...>
Subject: Another viewpoint - Frequency Shifter group question
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Karavidas <tony@...>
> Now when you talk about what I owe people is when you start to spoil the
fun.
OK. I see what has happened here. I have crossed the line. Bad Stooge.
The last thing in the world I want to do is spoil the fun. I agree. If it
isn't fun, why bother.
My points about what Tony might "owe" customers comes from my own concept of
what I think is owed to people when you take their money. But, Tony is
right, small, informal, and fun are really what makes this little industry
unique.
So, I apologize for making such a big deal about this all. I am happy to
see that the wishes of the potential customers are being considered in the
layout. Thanks to Tony for realizing that 1 million knobs in stock is not
necessarily a good reason to use them.
We will just have to peacefully disagree on the schematic issue. I see both
sides of the argument.
Now, back to some regularly scheduled fun.
Stooge Larry
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