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Im going to have to agree with chris.While dreamweaver may not make perfect code, I thinkit is a great tool for web development. At this point I write about 50% of thecode by hand, the code highlighting and tag finishing works great and expedites the process. Even if you code 100% by hand I don’treally see any disadvantage in using dreamweaver, likechris said the sitemanagement is great and it has a lot of features for hand coders that speed updevelopment time. The time that is saves me is well worth its price.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Walcott[mailto:cwalcott@...]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 3:45PM
To: 'Tkacs, Ken'; MOTM Forum All
Subject: RE: [motm] RE: OT webauthoring
Just to offer a differentview. First of all I work for macromedia so my opinion is obviouslybiased.
I used to do all my htmlby hand. About 6 years ago we transitioned all our development docs fromword to html. All our specs, test plans, schedules etc, were being postedto an internal web site. Around the same time we shippedDreamweaver. I had to give it a try and even though I was very skeptical,I soon realized what a great tool this was.
First of all, I willnever have to hand code another table, bullet list or frame. That aloneis worth the price of admission. Second, the html output in Dreamweaveris pretty good. Not perfect but definitely workable. The code isproperly indented, the syntax is right, it lets you set up CSS styles. Istill have to go into code view for a few things but not that often. There is no bloat in DW code.
DW also lets you managesites which is very nice - especially if you are working on a team. Ithas it's own checkin/checkout functionality.
Another cool feature isits integration with Fireworks. At one point I spent about a month of myspare time reworking my website with rollover buttons, tabbed menus, etc. I hand coded the javaScript and created all the 3-state graphics inphotoshop. Then one day I see a page that one of my co-workers puttogether that was essentially the exact same thing functionality wise. Ittook him 2 hours to set up using Dreamweaver and Fireworks. He createdall the rollover items in fireworks using layers for the different states, thensliced it up and exported. Fireworks created all the javaScript. Asimple copy and paste into Dreamweaver and that was it.
One thing someone told mea long time ago when I was reluctant to try it was that HTML is likepostscript. Once upon a time there were people who codedpostscript. This was before we had programs that output postscript likeIllustrator. My point is that eventually the tools get good enough sothat you don't have to hand code anymore.
Ken, have you actuallytried Dreamweaver? If not, you can get a free 30 day trial. Give ita shot and let me know what you think.
-- chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Tkacs, Ken[mailto:ken.tkacs@...]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 7:01AM
To: MOTM Forum All
Subject: FW: [motm] RE: OT webauthoring
I wasn't asked, but sinceit's a subject near & dear to my heart, I'll jump in too.
I agree with whatMoe said: all commercial web development software∗is∗crap. His description pretty much describes mysetup.
Historically, I've used MSFrontPage, and then gone into "code" view and 'fixed,'cleaned,andextended everything. Or I go into Notepad, because Notepad just says,"Yes, boss" and does what I tell it to without adding anything ormoving anything when I close the file.
You might be amazed at howoften I use Notepad, and I do this for a living. I even code ASP.NET innotepad... at the end of the day, if you know what you're doing, there'snothing you can't do by directly manipulating the code.(If you don't know what you're doing, then, well, I guess it's a differentstory.)
But I'm an old curmudgeon; Iabsolutely abhor any software that tries to second-guess me, or wipe my...well, let's say I detest software that tries to help me across the street likean old lady. I have more people trying toshove expensive 'does it all for you' software at me, and stuff that requiresplug-ins just turns me right off.
Also, I'm frequently calledin to repair web sites that were created by otherpeoplewho do not know what they're doing, but consider themselves web designersbecause they bought an expensive "automated" program. Whata nightmare. The bloated code is unbelievable, and thingslike variables are given cryptic names because they were createdby a machine and not a human. I usually start completelyfrom scratch when I have to repair a site created thisway. I won't name the packages that are the biggestoffenders, because I don't want to offend someonehere who may love them, but let me assure you that you can code anything byhand with no bloat in ways these applications can't even'dream'of.
At work, however,my [younger] assistantridesme about doing things "the hard way" so we're switching toVisualStudio.NET/SourceSafe; but I'm only doing it because we nowneedversioning-control software, not because I think that I can't continue to use atext editor forever.
So that's the cranky old mananswer. ;)
(What did you expect? I'mspending years soldering together a gargantuan synthesizerthat uses patchcords and technically only makes one note at a time! If I were a'takethe easy way out' kind of person, I wouldn't be here!)