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Just to offer a different view. First of all I work for macromedia so my opinion is obviously biased.
I used to do all my html by hand. About6 years ago we transitioned all our development docs from word to html. All our specs, test plans, schedules etc, were being posted to an internal website. Around the same time we shipped Dreamweaver. I had to give ita try and even though I was very skeptical, I soon realized what a great toolthis was.
First of all, I will never have to handcode another table, bullet list or frame. That alone is worth the priceof admission. Second, the html output in Dreamweaver is prettygood. Not perfect but definitely workable. The code is properlyindented, the syntax is right, it lets you set up CSS styles. I stillhave to go into code view for a few things but not that often. There isno bloat in DW code.
DW also lets you manage sites which isvery nice - especially if you are working on a team. It has it'sown checkin/checkout functionality.
Another cool feature is its integrationwith Fireworks. At one point I spent about a month of my spare timereworking my website with rollover buttons, tabbed menus, etc. I handcoded the javaScript and created all the 3-state graphics in photoshop. Then one day I see a page that one of my co-workers put together that was essentiallythe exact same thing functionality wise. It took him 2 hours to set upusing Dreamweaver and Fireworks. He created all the rollover items infireworks using layers for the different states, then sliced it up andexported. Fireworks created all the javaScript. A simple copy andpaste into Dreamweaver and that was it.
One thing someone told me a long time agowhen I was reluctant to try it was that HTML is like postscript. Onceupon a time there were people who coded postscript. This was before wehad programs that output postscript like Illustrator. My point is thateventually the tools get good enough so that you don't have to hand codeanymore.
Ken, have you actually triedDreamweaver? If not, you can get a free 30 day trial. Give it ashot and let me know what you think.
-- chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Tkacs, Ken[mailto:ken.tkacs@...]
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 7:01 AM
To: MOTM Forum All
Subject: FW: [motm] RE: OT webauthoring
I wasn't asked, but since it's a subject near & dear to myheart, I'll jump in too.
I agree with what Moe said:allcommercial web development software ∗is∗crap. His description pretty much describes mysetup.
Historically, I've used MS FrontPage, and then gone into"code" view and 'fixed,' cleaned,andextended everything. Or I go into Notepad, because Notepad just says,"Yes, boss" and does what I tell it to without adding anything ormoving anything when I close the file.
You might be amazed at how often I use Notepad, and I do thisfor a living. I even code ASP.NET in notepad... at the end of the day, if youknow what you're doing, there's nothing you can't do by directly manipulatingthe code. (If you don't know what you're doing, then,well, I guess it's a different story.)
But I'm an old curmudgeon; I absolutely abhor any software thattries to second-guess me, or wipe my... well, let's say I detest software thattries to help me across the street like an old lady. Ihave more people trying to shove expensive 'does it all for you' software atme, and stuff that requires plug-ins just turns me right off.
Also, I'm frequently called in to repair web sites that werecreatedby other people who do not know whatthey're doing, but consider themselves web designers because they bought anexpensive "automated" program. Whata nightmare. The bloated code is unbelievable, and thingslike variables are given cryptic names because they werecreated by a machine and not a human. Iusually start completely from scratch when I have to repaira site created this way. I won't name the packages thatare the biggest offenders, because I don't want to offend someonehere who may love them, but let me assure you that you can code anything byhand with no bloat in ways these applications can't even'dream'of.
At work, however, my [younger]assistantridesme about doing things "the hard way" so we're switching toVisualStudio.NET/SourceSafe; but I'm only doing it because we nowneedversioning-control software, not because I think that I can't continue to use atext editor forever.
So that's the cranky old man answer. ;)
(What did you expect? I'm spending years soldering together agargantuan synthesizer that usespatchcords and technically only makes one note at a time! If I were a'takethe easy way out' kind of person, I wouldn't be here!)