Off the PulsarProFx site:
Our amateur research led us to understand a few very important correlations
between three basic properties of toner:
1) HEAT & PRESSURE - makes toner sticky ("fuse")
2) PRESSURE - determines at what temperature toner will "fuse"
3) TEMPERATURE - determines at what point toner will "melt"Randy
________________________________
From: Randy S. <
rj3819@...>
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.comSent: Thu, February 17, 2011 4:19:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner not sticking to PCB well
Hey .. Paul
I'll take that as a yes ..
LMAO ..
and thanks
----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Mateer <
paul.aa9gg@...>
To:
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.comSent: Thu, February 17, 2011 2:00:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner not sticking to PCB well
YES!!!
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Randy S. <rj3819@...> wrote:
>
>
> Can not soaking the board for long enough prior to rubbing it off with your
>
> thumb
> cause the toner to come off the board?
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 1:48:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner not sticking to PCB well
>
> I used a modified GBC laminator. Check "Another GBC Laminator Mod" in
> the Photos area for pictures.
>
> On 2/17/2011 1:19 PM, Randy S. wrote:
> >
> > Which laminator do you use and if its not available .. have any
> > suggestions?
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Andrew <a_wake@... <mailto:a_wake%40earthlink.net>>
> > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:
> Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 1:01:23 PM
> > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Toner not sticking to PCB well
> >
> > Randy,
> >
> > The advantage of a laminator is repeatability / consistency -- but
> > only if the
> > laminator gets hot enough. Even with a hot enough laminator, most
> > people need to
> > make multiple passes to get a good transfer.
> >
> > You can get good transfers with an iron, but it becomes a little
> > harder to
> > adjust the variables -- was it too hot, or was I pressing too hard, or
> > both, or
> > ??? With an iron, I do think it helps to have a hard, non-heat-conductive
> > surface underneath, with some paper over top to help prevent
> > over-heating and/or
> > smearing.
> >
> > With either iron or laminator, I've never pre-heated the board; the
> > board (and
> > particularly the copper layer) heats up very quickly. Your mention of
> > the board
> > "sizzling" sounded way too hot to me.
> >
> > As others have said, HP toners generally work very well; you will want
> > to print
> > as densely as possible. The board needs to be very clean and dry; do
> > not use any
> > cleaners/solvents that will leave oily residue behind. I generally
> > scrub the
> > board with dish soap and water using a green scotch-brite pad, and
> > then do a
> > final wipe down with acetone. Do not touch the surface of the board after
> > cleaning it!
> >
> > I have made some decent boards using an iron. I now have a nice
> > laminator with
> > temperature and speed control, and it does increase the ease and
> > consistency and
> > therefore the speed with which I can make boards. I have also had
> > better results
> > with double-sided boards using the laminator.
> >
> > The nice thing is that you can easily and cheaply experiment to find
> > what works
> > to give you good, consistent results. If a board transfers badly, just
> > wipe it
> > off with acetone (or scrub it off), reclean the board, and try again!
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Randy S." <rj3819@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ok .. thanks
> > > and yes .. have a thermocouple probe ..
> > > I cant set the laminator temp ..
> > > I guess its a cheaper "DUCK" laminator ..
> > > But figured it was worth a try ..
> > > I will try the preheat ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jeff Heiss <jeff.heiss@...>
> > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 12:25:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner not sticking to PCB well
> > >
> > >
> > > I really think is a problem with temperature. My procedure derived from
> > > much experimenting is to set the laminator to 275F, preheat the
> > board to
> > > around 250F, run the board through the laminator twice, preheat
> > again to
> > > 250F and pass through two more times. The reason you have to preheat
> > > again is because it will cool by the second pass. Do not depend on the
> > > laminator to heat the board. It will not. Do you have a thermocouple
> > > probe to take measurements?
> > >
> > > On 2/17/2011 12:00 PM, Randy S. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ok on the HP Toners ..
> > > > I ran it thru the laminator ..and there was no sign of the toner even
> > > > having thoughts of sticking to the board ..
> > > > Either toner .. post office or the HP .. i guess its just not getting
> > > > hot enough ..
> > > > Are there popular laserjet printers used for PCB's ??
> > > > I will keep trying .. and will try the paper towels ..
> > > >
> > > > Randy
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: "kabowers@... <mailto:kabowers%40NorthState.net>"
> > > > <kabowers@... <mailto:kabowers%40NorthState.net>>
> > > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Thu, February 17, 2011 9:15:51 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Toner not sticking to PCB well
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 22:09:39 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >OK .. went from the problem with the traces running together
> > > > >to the toner not sticking well to the copper ..
> > > > >
> > > > >Can it be that I'm not heating long enough ?
> > > > >
> > > > >Or can it also be that specific toner ?
> > > > >
> > > > >Its from a newer model HP copier ..
> > > > >
> > > > >Randy
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > The variables have variables. Unless HP has changed their toners work
> > > > great.
> > > > I run mine (1022) at the highest quality/density setting.
> > > >
> > > > There's a "sweet spot" between time, temperature and size of board.
> > > > I did a 4x6 board a couple of days ago using with the iron set
> halfway
> > > > between cotton and linen and ironed for 2.5 minutes with moderate
> > > > pressure.
> > > > Pay special attention to the edges. I paced the board in a folded
> > Bounty
> > > > paper towel and used an old cutting board for support.
> > > >
> > > > I use Hammermill OficeOne Business Glossy 32# paper (16302-0) which
> > > > may be discontinued. If you "overcook" this stuff it's almost
> > > > impossible to
> > > > get off without pulling the toner off the copper. "Undercooking"
> > > > results in
> > > > failure to adhere; "overcooking" or slippage results in smeared
> > traces.
> > > >
> > > > I recently failed to properly support a board in the center and
> > had to
> > > > strip
> > > > with acetone and start over due to traces running together; lesson
> > > > learned.
> > > >
> > > > A couple of years ago someone here suggested placing the board
> between
> > > > sheets of paper towel; this resulted in a major improvement for me.
> > > >
> > > > Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
Paul Mateer, AA9GG
Elan Engineering Corp.
www.elanengr.com
NAQCC 3123, SKCC 4628, FPQRP 2003
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