Homebrew PCBs

I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 
1.2mm #TW006

At the same place, there is also :

 

#TW002  .011" internal .020" external   (.3 mm - .5 mm)

#TW003  .015" internal .023" external   (.4 mm - .6 mm)

#TW004  .023" internal .031" external   (.6 mm - .8 mm)

#TW005. .031" internal .039" external   (.8 mm -  1 mm)  

 

Good find, but how easy will this be to solder?  There also this place in
Hong Kong :  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-Copper-Round-Tube-Rod-Various-Diameters-0-8mm
-0-4mm-1mm/252463752113?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26a
sc%3D41375%26meid%3D6d4883ab395d4891935e709e981deddb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5
%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122716829812
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-Copper-Round-Tube-Rod-Various-Diameters-0-8m
m-0-4mm-1mm/252463752113?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26
asc%3D41375%26meid%3D6d4883ab395d4891935e709e981deddb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D
5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122716829812&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851>
&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

NB :  copy past link  

:-) :-)

 

  _____  

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 1:07 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias

 

  

I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 1.2mm
#TW006

OT but you can shorten eBay links by deleting the description and everything
after the ?.

 

You just need https://www.ebay.com/itm/ and the actual item number, so
https://www.ebay.com/itm/252463752113

 

Tony

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2017 5:04 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias

 

 

At the same place, there is also :

 

#TW002  .011" internal ..020" external   (.3 mm - .5 mm)

#TW003  .015" internal ..023" external   (.4 mm - .6 mm)

#TW004  .023" internal ..031" external   (.6 mm - .8 mm)

#TW005. .031" internal ..039" external   (.8 mm -  1 mm)  

 

Good find, but how easy will this be to solder?  There also this place in
Hong Kong :  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-Copper-Round-Tube-Rod-Various-Diameters-0-8mm
-0-4mm-1mm/252463752113?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26a
sc%3D41375%26meid%3D6d4883ab395d4891935e709e981deddb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5
%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122716829812
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brass-Copper-Round-Tube-Rod-Various-Diameters-0-8m
m-0-4mm-1mm/252463752113?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26
asc%3D41375%26meid%3D6d4883ab395d4891935e709e981deddb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D
5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D122716829812&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851>
&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

 

NB :  copy past link  

J J

 

  _____  

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 1:07 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias

 

  

I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 1.2mm
#TW006

We were having some banter earlier this month about how to get ..what to 
use... for vias through
a two sided PCB.

I found this particular tubing to be the correct size for component leads.
Your mileage may vary.

My experiments with two sided PCBs has been limited to
TWO single sided finished PCBs bolted together.

On 10/30/2017 01:06 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
> I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
> Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 
> 1.2mm #TW006
>
> 
>

The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical 
tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.� Done right, it would 
produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly 
advised).

On 10/30/2017 9:03 PM, James bitsyboffin@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
>
> Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire 
> of appropriate thickness?
>
> That aside, and against my own reservations, I've got some of these in 
> my Aliexpress cart currently when I get around to clearing it out next
>
> https://goo.gl/QpDTnn
>
> (in case the listing goes, title is "1 Black Jar Boxed Bar Design 
> 0.5mm Thickness Rivets Studs Gold Plated Metallic Japanese Style 3D 
> Nail Art Decoration Accessories")
>
> I have absolutely no idea if they are solid, brass, copper, or maybe 
> even plastic, but for $2 I figure it's worth a look.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Rob roomberg@... 
> <mailto:roomberg@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] 
> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>> 
> wrote:
>
>     I found brass tube
>
>
>
>

I like that idea.

I may play with that idea.
I pretty much stick to 70 mm by 100 mm etching so perhaps a C clamp or a 
large jaw pliers that can reach 40mm (half way across the PCB.... would 
be good to hold the teeth cones.



On 10/31/2017 10:18 AM, Dale Chatham dale.chatham@... 
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

>
> The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical 
> tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it 
> would produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though 
> highly advised).
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 9:03 PM, James bitsyboffin@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>> Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire 
>> of appropriate thickness?
>>
>> That aside, and against my own reservations, I've got some of these 
>> in my Aliexpress cart currently when I get around to clearing it out next
>>
>> https://goo.gl/QpDTnn
>>
>> (in case the listing goes, title is "1 Black Jar Boxed Bar Design 
>> 0.5mm Thickness Rivets Studs Gold Plated Metallic Japanese Style 3D 
>> Nail Art Decoration Accessories")
>>
>> I have absolutely no idea if they are solid, brass, copper, or maybe 
>> even plastic, but for $2 I figure it's worth a look.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Rob roomberg@... 
>> <mailto:roomberg@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] 
>> <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     I found brass tube
>>
>
>

I have seen boards made with brass tube eyelets that were not plated for 
easy solderability. These eyelets worked about 99% of the time or, in 
other words, 99 out of 100 of these eyelets gave no trouble. But that 
last one, the one in a hundred had a little corrosion on it and the 
solder did not take. But it was covered with the solder so you could NOT 
see that it was a bad connection. After some time (years?) the 
mechanical connection that initially worked, accumulated some more 
corrosion and began to give trouble. It was a real PITA to try to 
troubleshoot a board that had all good components and absolutely no 
visible indication of the real problem. I spent many, many hours working 
on those boards.


I do NOT like boards made with brass eyelets or terminals unless those 
brass components are heavily plated with SOLDER. Not a thin layer of tin 
or some other "compatible" metal, but actual SOLDER.

When I worked in an electronics plant ,they had a hollow rivet they used for this. I saw many boards come back in for service where the rivet was no longer soldered to the pad. They used these where connectors were put in the board to strengthen it. I would at the very least wash the brass tubes in a mild acid to clean them and rinse well before using . lemon juice may work as I have seen it used for flux in a wave solder machine.

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 10:44 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias

 

  

We were having some banter earlier this month about how to get ..what to use... for vias through 
a two sided PCB.

I found this particular tubing to be the correct size for component leads.
Your mileage may vary.

My experiments with two sided PCBs has been limited to
TWO single sided finished PCBs bolted together.




On 10/30/2017 01:06 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

  

I found brass tube that fits component leads that could be used as vias.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/121507489010
Alliance Model Works 1:24/35/48/72 1:350/700 Precision Brass Tubing 1.2mm #TW006

Nice round eyelets are not want if you are using double sided PCBs.  See Keith post below and read mine again.
Repeating my previous post:
Note:  For joining top to bottom layers as is normally done, you do not want perfect little tubular eyelets.  You should use eyelets that are formed from a strip and rolled into the eyelet shape.  It will have a desirable vertical slit in it.
I know it sounds backwards but the reasons are very valid.
Many decades ago Motorola used eyelets on PCBs instead of through hole plating.  Originally nice round eyelets were used and there were a lot of field failures.  The solder properly solders the bottom section to the bottom runner, it wicks up through the eyelet and solders the component lead but there is no capillary action to draw the solder over the eyelet’s top edge onto the top runner so it only makes mechanical contact.  The eyelets with a vertical slit avoids that problem.
Bertho
--------------------------------

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 16:22
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias
  
When I worked in an electronics plant ,they had a hollow rivet they used for this. I saw many boards come back in for service where the rivet was no longer soldered to the pad. They used these where connectors were put in the board to strengthen it. I would at the very least wash the brass tubes in a mild acid to clean them and rinse well before using . lemon juice may work as I have seen it used for flux in a wave solder machine.

If you don’t need the holes that’s the easiest way.

 

If you’ve a bunch of them then you can get a long pieces of copper wire, thread it though all of them, solder one side then flip it over to do the other, and finally trim the excess off.

 

Although finding a long piece of suitable copper (or tinned) wire can be surprising difficult at times.

 

Tony

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2017 1:16 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias



I just used component lead wires and solder both sides. 
https://hackaday.io/project/7938-pcb-smt-maker-lab-home

On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 17:47:22 +1100, you wrote:

>If you don\ufffdt need the holes that\ufffds the easiest way.
>
>If you\ufffdve a bunch of them then you can get a long pieces of copper wire, thread it though all of them, solder one side then flip it over to do the other, and finally trim the excess off.
>
>Although finding a long piece of suitable copper (or tinned) wire can be surprising difficult at times.

Bare wire is available, I used #26 gauge.

RULE:  no vias under surface mount chips, and careful with the ones
under sockets.  All through hole parts connect on bottom only.  (some
parts cannot be soldered on the top layer). Does work, though.  

Harvey

>
> 
>
>Tony
>
> 
>
> 
>
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, 1 November 2017 1:16 PM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] brass tube vias
>
>
>
>I just used component lead wires and solder both sides. 
>https://hackaday.io/project/7938-pcb-smt-maker-lab-home 
>
>
>
>
>

You may think that you have a good connection. The top manufacturing 
company who made the bad boards that I had to repair over and over again 
certainly did. But you can not trust it. PERIOD. The brass is swagged 
over the copper trace with a solder coating on it. Both brass and solder 
alloys are soft metals and expansion/contraction cycles will open a gap 
large enough for oxygen and other corrosive gasses in the air to 
penetrate. You will get oxidization and other forms of corrosion and 
eventually the joint may/will fail. And it will be HELL to find and 
repair especially with low level, high impedance signals. You could wind 
up completely replacing a PCB that cost hundreds, thousands, or even 
tens of thousands of dollars. I have seen it. I have fought it. Brass 
tubing or hollow brass rivets MUST be soldered for reliability and there 
is NO way to inspect that solder joint. It will look perfectly normal on 
the outside while it is was never a proper joint underneath and 
corrosion sets in. That is, assuming that the brass was not coated with 
corrosion before it was inserted in the hole.


USE soldered Z wires so you can see and inspect the solder joint if you 
want a dependable joint. Or get a board made with plated holes.



        :


      "Dale Chatham
      <mailto:dale.chatham@...?subject=Re%3A%20brass%20tube%20vias>


        said,

> The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical
> tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.� Done right, it would
> produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly
> advised).

YES, it is different than solid wire. Solid wire is copper and usually 
plated with tin or solder so that it takes solder easily. Brass, if left 
standing for any amount of time can acquire a coating of oxide which 
resists solder adhesion. And most electronic fluxes are not formulated 
to handle this. You would have to scrupulously clean the brass 
immediately before inserting it and soldering it if you want reliable 
connections. I have a lot of experience with brass that was "soldered" 
to PCBs.


James said,

> Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
> appropriate thickness?

WOW!
That was a very educational discussion pretty much settling on DON'T DO IT.

I was not having anything lined up now that required vias.
I had just stumbled onto the brass tubes in a hobby shop and remembered 
someone posting questions
about vias here so I bought a few and checked out their mechanical 
fit..... never actually soldering anything.

Thanks for the education!



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You may think that you have a good connection. The top manufacturing 
company who made the bad boards that I had to repair over and over again 
certainly did. But you can not trust it. PERIOD. The brass is swagged 
over the copper trace with a solder coating on it. Both brass and solder 
alloys are soft metals and expansion/contraction cycles will open a gap 
large enough for oxygen and other corrosive gasses in the air to 
penetrate. You will get oxidization and other forms of corrosion and 
eventually the joint may/will fail. And it will be HELL to find and 
repair especially with low level, high impedance signals. You could wind 
up completely replacing a PCB that cost hundreds, thousands, or even 
tens of thousands of dollars. I have seen it. I have fought it. Brass 
tubing or hollow brass rivets MUST be soldered for reliability and there 
is NO way to inspect that solder joint. It will look perfectly normal on 
the outside while it is was never a proper joint underneath and 
corrosion sets in. That is, assuming that the brass was not coated with 
corrosion before it was inserted in the hole.


USE soldered Z wires so you can see and inspect the solder joint if you 
want a dependable joint. Or get a board made with plated holes.



:
"Dale Chatham
said,


 > The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical
 > tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would
 > produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly
 > advised).
On 11/01/2017 07:56 PM, Paul Alciatore palciatore@... 
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

>
> YES, it is different than solid wire. Solid wire is copper and usually
> plated with tin or solder so that it takes solder easily. Brass, if left
> standing for any amount of time can acquire a coating of oxide which
> resists solder adhesion. And most electronic fluxes are not formulated
> to handle this. You would have to scrupulously clean the brass
> immediately before inserting it and soldering it if you want reliable
> connections. I have a lot of experience with brass that was "soldered"
> to PCBs.
>
> James said,
>
> > Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
> > appropriate thickness?
>
> _

I ordered some of these vias from Ali express..


Seems to be a reasonable item providing that they are soldered in 
directly. They also look good for creating non slip test points for 
scope probes.

Ancel

Hi Ancel,
Can you be more specific.....which..... some of these vias?

Is there a look you could point to?



On 11/02/2017 10:32 PM, AncelB mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>
> I ordered some of these vias from Ali express..
>
> Seems to be a reasonable item providing that they are soldered in
> directly. They also look good for creating non slip test points for
> scope probes.
>
> Ancel
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  WOW!
That was a very educational discussion pretty much settling on DON'T DO IT.

I was not having anything lined up now that required vias.
I had just stumbled onto the brass tubes in a hobby shop and remembered 
someone posting questions
about vias here so I bought a few and checked out their mechanical 
fit..... never actually soldering anything.

Thanks for the education!



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You may think that you have a good connection. The top manufacturing 
company who made the bad boards that I had to repair over and over again 
certainly did. But you can not trust it. PERIOD. The brass is swagged 
over the copper trace with a solder coating on it. Both brass and solder 
alloys are soft metals and expansion/contraction cycles will open a gap 
large enough for oxygen and other corrosive gasses in the air to 
penetrate. You will get oxidization and other forms of corrosion and 
eventually the joint may/will fail. And it will be HELL to find and 
repair especially with low level, high impedance signals. You could wind 
up completely replacing a PCB that cost hundreds, thousands, or even 
tens of thousands of dollars. I have seen it. I have fought it. Brass 
tubing or hollow brass rivets MUST be soldered for reliability and there 
is NO way to inspect that solder joint. It will look perfectly normal on 
the outside while it is was never a proper joint underneath and 
corrosion sets in. That is, assuming that the brass was not coated with 
corrosion before it was inserted in the hole.


USE soldered Z wires so you can see and inspect the solder joint if you 
want a dependable joint. Or get a board made with plated holes.



:
"Dale Chatham
said,


 > The one thing one could do with the brass tubing is to make a conical
 > tool for both sides which will flange the tubing.  Done right, it would
 > produce an airtight seal and solder would be superfluous (though highly
 > advised).
On 11/01/2017 07:56 PM, Paul Alciatore palciatore@... 
[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:

 >
 >
 > YES, it is different than solid wire. Solid wire is copper and usually
 > plated with tin or solder so that it takes solder easily. Brass, if left
 > standing for any amount of time can acquire a coating of oxide which
 > resists solder adhesion. And most electronic fluxes are not formulated
 > to handle this. You would have to scrupulously clean the brass
 > immediately before inserting it and soldering it if you want reliable
 > connections. I have a lot of experience with brass that was "soldered"
 > to PCBs.
 >
 > James said,
 >
 > > Without rivet heads, is it really any different than solid core wire of
 > > appropriate thickness?