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2018-04-07 by r.d. terramir
2018-04-07 by Keith B
Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); strong enough to burn your bare hands. I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking you out. I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. In this part of the US they seem to show up near WalMarts. On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote: >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3% >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact. >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there. >terramir --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
2018-04-07 by keith printy
Volume 40 developer for hair dye is about 12% Lower volume numbers of course have less peroxide in them
From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2018 5:23 PM To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Question about etching pcb's Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); strong enough to burn your bare hands. I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking you out. I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. In this part of the US they seem to show up near WalMarts. On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote: >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3% >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact. >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there. >terramir --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
2018-04-08 by Rob
\ufffdLook for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
strong enough to burn your bare hands.
I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
you out.
I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
In this part of the US they seem to show up
near WalMarts.
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>terramir
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
2018-04-08 by Keith B
For single use the 3% just adds more water. If you are doing the copper chloride bit the 3% tends to add too much water and over time upsets the chemistry. I'm a newby, I've only been using my original batch of CuCl for five or six years.
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote: >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore >3% peroxide? > >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide. >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes. > >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html > >Rob KB3BYT > >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs] >wrote: >> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); >> strong enough to burn your bare hands. >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking >> you out. >> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. >> In this part of the US they seem to show up >> near WalMarts. >> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3% >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact. >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there. >> >terramir >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> http://www.avg.com >> >>
2018-04-08 by Rob
\ufffdFor single use the 3% just adds more water.
If you are doing the copper chloride bit
the 3% tends to add too much water and over
time upsets the chemistry.
I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
batch of CuCl for five or six years.
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:
>So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>3% peroxide?
>
>I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>
>Rob KB3BYT
>
>On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> you out.
>>
>> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> near WalMarts.
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better than 3%
>> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a while ago
>> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome there.
>> >terramir
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
2018-04-08 by Harvey White
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote: >What do you mean by >" If you are doing the copper chloride bit" > Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride (CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower, but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life, but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid. Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add enough. If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by the etchant. Harvey
> > > > >On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs] >wrote: >> >> For single use the 3% just adds more water. >> >> If you are doing the copper chloride bit >> the 3% tends to add too much water and over >> time upsets the chemistry. >> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original >> batch of CuCl for five or six years. >> >> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore >> >3% peroxide? >> > >> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide. >> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes. >> > >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html >> > >> >Rob KB3BYT >> > >> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs] >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); >> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands. >> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it >> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking >> >> you out. >> >> >> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. >> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up >> >> near WalMarts. >> >> >> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better >> than 3% >> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact. >> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply >> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a >> while ago >> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome >> there. >> >> >terramir >> >> >> >> --- >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> >> http://www.avg.com >> >> >> >> >> >>
2018-04-08 by Rob
\ufffdOn Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote:
>What do you mean by
>" If you are doing the copper chloride bit"
>
Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen
provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride
(CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does
this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the
solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower,
but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life,
but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid.
Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add
enough.
If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see
the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by
the etchant.
Harvey
>
>
>
>
>On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>wrote:
>>
>> For single use the 3% just adds more water.
>>
>> If you are doing the copper chloride bit
>> the 3% tends to add too much water and over
>> time upsets the chemistry.
>> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original
>> batch of CuCl for five or six years.
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the drugstore
>> >3% peroxide?
>> >
>> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide.
>> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes.
>> >
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html
>> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html
>> >
>> >Rob KB3BYT
>> >
>> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs]
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?);
>> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands.
>> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it
>> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking
>> >> you out.
>> >>
>> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply.
>> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up
>> >> near WalMarts.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better
>> than 3%
>> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be exact.
>> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply
>> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a
>> while ago
>> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome
>> there.
>> >> >terramir
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> >> http://www.avg.com
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
2018-04-08 by Harvey White
On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:03:03 -0400, you wrote: >Thank you. >I was not reusing solutions. >And... I was not using a bubbler. >I am more of a hobbyist.... not doing high production... so I never pursued >how to reuse and revitalize the solution. > If you do one or two at a time, that's one thing. I generally did a run of 5-10 double sided boards at a time, simply because the setup to clean the boards, etch them and so on was time consuming. I actually got more done that way than trying to set up for a board, then three days later, perhaps another one. As long as the peroxide solution is fresh, you don't need a bubbler. Mine was left over from the ferric chloride days, and then CuCl. Harvey
> >On 04/08/2018 02:09 PM, Harvey White madyn@... >[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 13:52:44 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >What do you mean by >> >" If you are doing the copper chloride bit" >> > >> Peroxide/hydrochloric (muriatic) acid works well until the oxygen >> provided by the peroxide runs out. The remnants are copper chloride >> (CuCl). It will not etch a board by itself (Ferric chloride does >> this, eventually, I think). However, by bubbling air through the >> solution, the extra oxygen will allow etching. Perhaps a bit slower, >> but it does etch. This particular solution has an indefinite life, >> but needs to be adjusted every now and then for additional acid. >> >> Adding peroxide simply goes back to the original solution if you add >> enough. >> >> If you look at the etching process in a clear solution, you will see >> the copper turn dark in waves, this is the copper being oxidized by >> the etchant. >> >> Harvey >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On 04/08/2018 12:03 PM, Keith B kabowers@... [Homebrew_PCBs] >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> For single use the 3% just adds more water. >> >> >> >> If you are doing the copper chloride bit >> >> the 3% tends to add too much water and over >> >> time upsets the chemistry. >> >> I'm a newby, I've only been using my original >> >> batch of CuCl for five or six years. >> >> >> >> On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 00:22:51 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >So what is the advantage of using 12% peroxide instead of the >> drugstore >> >> >3% peroxide? >> >> > >> >> >I use 50ml of muriatic acid mixed into 100ml of drugstore peroxide. >> >> >All of my etching is done in about 4 or 5 minutes. >> >> > >> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/hotcakes.html >> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/ch/index.html >> >> >http://www.learnmorsecode.com/DC/index.html >> >> > >> >> >Rob KB3BYT >> >> > >> >> >On 04/07/2018 05:22 PM, Keith B kabowers@... >> [Homebrew_PCBs] >> >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. >> Baume?); >> >> >> strong enough to burn your bare hands. >> >> >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it >> >> >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking >> >> >> you out. >> >> >> >> >> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. >> >> >> In this part of the US they seem to show up >> >> >> near WalMarts. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:00 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >Copper clad board using muriatic acid would like to find better >> >> than 3% >> >> >> >hydrogen peroxide if possible. In the usa LA california to be >> exact. >> >> >> >Also what are some of the better methods of making a pcb cheaply >> >> >> >BTW if needed I have 99 uv led on a circuit board built that a >> >> while ago >> >> >> >just would need a cheap uv kinda etch resist suggestions welcome >> >> there. >> >> >> >terramir >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> >> >> http://www.avg.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
2018-04-08 by cs6061@...
2018-04-08 by Rob
My 70mmX100mm PCBs cost 40 cents each. The time saved is really where I value printing my own PCBs. AND there is one more advantage to printing your own PCBs...caveman electronics style. HUGE traces.. I can see with my gnarly vision. Most of my traces are more than 1/8th inch wide. I don't measure traces in MILs. So if I make a mistake or want to experiment I can just plain drill another hole and always find copper. http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/04bottom.jpg which makes for parts layout wide enough to actually not trip over parts: http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/04top.jpg http://www.learnmorsecode.com/regen/00regen.html
On 04/08/2018 06:55 PM, cs6061@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > The hydroponic folks use 30% H202 to clean equipment etc. It's > available on line from Walmart, Amazon etc but it's seems rather > expensive at around $23 per liter. > > I used to do a lot of etching, mostly with ammonium persulfate, but > these days I can can't justify doing it my self anymore. Just got two > boards done via JLCPCB in China, got 10 copies of each board for a > total order price of $7.00. One board was $2 ( 3" x 3.5" two layer > double sided .062 FR4) the other was $5 ( 2" x 3.3" but .032" FR4). > The quality and delivery time (5 days) was superb. I can't buy the raw > stock for that price. I don't know how they can make any money at > those prices. > > Craig > >
2018-04-09 by alienrelics@...
2018-04-09 by Brad Thompson
On 4/8/2018 8:38 PM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen peroxide. > > > Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no > idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were mixed. Hello-- A Wiki search states... "The chemical equation for bleach and hydrochloric acid is as follows: NaClO + 2 HCl ----> Cl2 + H2O + NaCl. In other words, sodium hypochlorite and hydrochloric acid make saltwater and chlorine gas. ... Chlorine gas is highly reactive because the bond between the two chlorine atoms is weak..." (According to various news outlets, Syria's Assad regime is using chlorine gas or another related weaponized chlorine compound against civilians, causing many casualties.) Under NO circumstances should you mix these chemicals to use an an experimental PC-board etchant! 73-- Brad AA1IP
2018-04-09 by Norm
As a beauticians product, it IS a bleach - HAIR bleach, as the writer specified.� It is not LAUNDRY bleach.� Just as not all acids are HCl, not all bleaches are chlorine based. Norm� w6nim On 4/8/2018 5:38 PM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen > peroxide. > > > Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no > idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were > mixed. > > Steve Greenfield AE7HD > > > ---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <kabowers@...> wrote : > > Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); > strong enough to burn your bare hands. > I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it > starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking > you out. > > I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. > In this part of the US they seem to show up > near WalMarts. > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
2018-04-09 by Harvey White
On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 00:22:32 -0700, you wrote: >As a beauticians product, it IS a bleach - HAIR bleach, as the writer >specified.\ufffd It is not LAUNDRY bleach.\ufffd Just as not all acids are HCl, >not all bleaches are chlorine based. Perhaps not all people would make that distinction. Harvey
> >Norm\ufffd w6nim > > > >On 4/8/2018 5:38 PM, alienrelics@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> Please do not call it "bleach", it is not chlorine, it is hydrogen >> peroxide. >> >> >> Someone coming across this thread may be confused by this. I have no >> idea what would happen if chlorine bleach and hydrochloric acid were >> mixed. >> >> Steve Greenfield AE7HD >> >> >> ---In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, <kabowers@...> wrote : >> >> Look for clear hair bleach. I think it's around 12% (40 deg. Baume?); >> strong enough to burn your bare hands. >> I understand janatorial supply shops have it even stronger, but it >> starts to get dangerous and these days may find the police checking >> you out. >> >> I got mine from the local Sally Beauty Supply. >> In this part of the US they seem to show up >> near WalMarts. >> >> >> > > > >--- >This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >http://www.avg.com