Hi MYC,
I have not yet looked at a 220 printer from Epson so I have no idea
what it looks like. How wide can it print?
The reason I ask is that I have one of those Fargo Signature series
CD printers. It is design ONLY to work with CDs, and thus can only
print on an area as wide as the CD itself. The length of printing I
am pretty sure could be modified, but not the wide.
Either way, the printer is worthless as I can't get updated drivers
for it to work on the newer operating systems :-(
Chris
--- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mycroft2152 <mycroft2152@...>
wrote:
>
> "Techno-Bqbble" is only useful after passing through a
> Pragmatic filter. Usually there is nothing left.
>
> Seriously, for direct to pcb printing to be practical,
> it must use commonly availible components. Of course
> there will be the the few that will go to extremes.
>
> The MIS ink results have not yet been duplicated.
> Anyone?
>
> More postings have been concerned with converting
> printers for flat bed printing and cleaning
> printheads. This is re-inventing the wheel, CD
> printers are now commonplace.
>
> Based on the discussion to date, the simplest method
> is to use an EPSON R220 CD printer with MIS ink,
> filled replacement cartridges.
>
> Once the MIS Ink use is validated, then ~$50 will buy
> the ink and cartidges.
>
> Myc
>
> Side posting alert!
>
> L
> e
> n
>
> d
> r
> o
> p
> y
>
> t
> h
> e
>
> l
> i
> n
> k
> s
>
> a
> b
> o
> u
> t
>
> t
> o
> p
>
> p
> o
> s
> t
> i
> n
> g
> !
>
> :
> )
>
>
>
>
> --- lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Len,
> >
> > That was one of the best "Techno-Babble" posts on
> > this subject yet!
> > It would appear as though you have a really good
> > understanding of
> > the chemistry involved in this process that we are
> > trying to achieve.
> >
> > Based on your experience, what exactly do you think
> > we should be
> > doing? So far, the MIS inks seem to be "on top" as
> > being capable of
> > resisting the etching as well as being able to be
> > used in the
> > commonly available printers.
> >
> > As for board prep, from first hand experience, I
> > know that not all
> > PCB copper is the same. I had some where toner
> > transfer works
> > perfectly everytime, yet others where I can't get
> > toner to stick to
> > it unless I pre-etch it.
> >
> > As most of us here are not chemists, nor do we play
> > one on TV, all
> > we can do is experiment and try different things.
> >
> > As for the requirements of board prep and solvents
> > in inks (being
> > water or otherwise) etc. I came to my "hunches"
> > above based on
> > something similar in experience. We have all used
> > Sharpie brand
> > markers as a resist. I have used it on every type
> > of PCB material I
> > have purchased.
> >
> > Oddly enough, I have never had to do ANY board prep
> > work to get that
> > ink to adhere and work good. I don't believe it is
> > water based (or
> > uses water as a solvent) and being that black is the
> > standard color,
> > it also makes pretty good sense that black ink
> > should also work in
> > ink jet printing. Now if we could extract the
> > Sharpie ink out of the
> > pen, AND get it to pass through an ink jet printer,
> > we would have
> > our solution that works very reliably. My hope is
> > that the MIS inks
> > are similar enough in "chemsitry" that they will
> > perform in an ink
> > jet printer as well as the sharpie pens :-)
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Len Warner
> > <yahoo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:48, lcdpublishing wrote:
> > > ><snip Tarn-X>
> > > >I have a hunch there are two key elements to this
> > whole ink-jet
> > > >printing thing..
> > > >
> > > >1) The proper type of ink - solvent based as
> > opposed to water
> > based
> > >
> > > But water _is_ a solvent, and a darned good one at
> > that :-)
> > >
> > > However, it's a highly polar solvent, in contrast
> > to the non-polar
> > > hydrocarbons and the non- or slightly-polar other
> > organics.
> > >
> > > >and pigmented as opposed to dyes.
> > >
> > > But pigments aren't dissolved (it's what
> > distinguishes them from
> > dyes.)
> > >
> > > So both your criteria are rather confusing.
> > >
> > > >2) Curing that ink so that it doesn't wash away.
> > >
> > > Agreed, but you are relying on the binder in the
> > mix: the "solvent"
> > > is actually a carrier liquid, the pigment is the
> > colour (which may
> > > be irrelevant to the resist properties) and the
> > binder is the glue
> > > residue which holds the pigment particles onto the
> > surface -
> > > or the pigment would be as durable as a dry-wipe
> > marker
> > > on a smooth surface.
> > >
> > > Because these inks are designed for a high-gloss
> > finish, there
> > > is a higher amount of binder as a lacquer to glaze
> > the surface,
> > > otherwise the printing appears dull against a
> > gloss paper.
> > > That's probably why we are having some success
> > with this
> > > family of inks as etch resist.
> > >
> > > It may also explain why yellow is best - it is a
> > very transparent
> > > colour which may contain little or no pigment,
> > whereas black
> > > requires much. It's even possible that a heavy
> > pigment load
> > > weakens or perforates the binder layer.
> > >
> > > Another approach would be to reinforce the ink:
> > copperplate
> > > print etchers of old used to draw with a grease
> > pencil then
> > > dust the image with "dragon's blood" (a resin
> > powder) and
> > > fuse, repeating as necessary to produce a nitric
> > acid resist.
> > > I wouldn't want to exercise that amount of skill
> > but it might
> > > be made to work, perhaps even with toner powder.
> > The old
> > > Kodak Diconix ink was very oily/sticky but the
> > technology
> > > is likely too old to resurrect.
> > >
> > > A method AFAIK untried would be to coat the board
> > with a raw
> > > resist coating such as gelatin, albumen, gum
> > arabic or PVA
> > > and then jet-print with a tanning agent. Potassium
> > dichromate
> > > followed by UV harden, alkaline develop and bake
> > would
> > > probably work but I don't like to think what it
> > might do to the
> > > print head. Tannic acid might work. Boiled
> > oak-galls might.
> > > Eye of newt, etc. - wish we had a good chemist on
> > the list. :-)
> > > It might be worth asking on sci.chem
> > >
> > > >The little bit of playing around I did with the
> > durabrite ink
> > > >with "Bone stock" PCB material showed me that it
> > not only adheres,
> > > >but it doesn't bead up or puddle like the other
> > inks.
> > >
> > > Beading and puddling is a surface energy
> > phenomenon, an effect
> > > mediated by the "wettability" of the surface by
> > the liquid and
> > > the surface tension of the liquid, both being the
> > manifestation
> > > of intermolecular attractions.
> > >
> > > So both surface preparation and liquid composition
> > play a part.
> > >
> > > In respect of an aqueous liquid, the wettability
> > of copper is
> > > decreased by oily contamination of the surface and
> > > increased by the presence of somewhat polar
> > organics
> > > such as alcohols or detergents as surfactants.
> > >
> > > A "clean" copper surface is probably oxidized or
> > carries
> > > some other copper compound as a chemical tarnish
> > derived
> > > from its last bath - the wettability of this will
> > be influenced
> > > by chemical reactions as well as surface affinity.
> > >
> > > So weak organic acids such as citric or acetic
> > will probably
> > > increase wettability in many situations and
> > ammonia water,
> > > which is alkaline and complexes copper, in others.
> > > Acetic acid and ammonia seem to have solvent
> > activity too.
> > >
> > > Another possibility is a mild reducing agent
> > >
> > > (It's subtle influences like this, combined with
> > pre-treatment
> > > of the surface, that makes litho printing
> > possible.)
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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