Wiardgroup

First of all, congrats on the new module.  Onceagain. pusing the analog limits, hats off to you Grant!
   I was wondering why you would put Banana jacks on your new pet rock joystick?  Hmmm.  Wiard uses 1/8 jacks..  Pet rock = banana..  Hmmm.   plans on using bananas on your future modules or just want to give the serge/modcan/fenix crew a taste of wiard??  Are many of the jacks on the present modules switching things in and out? ie, would bananizing wiard modules be feasible??

curious

~Steve

--- In wiardgroup@y..., revtor@a... wrote:
> First of all, congrats on the new module.  Onceagain. pusing 
the analog limits, hats off to you Grant!

Thank you!

>    I was wondering why you would put Banana jacks on your 
new pet rock joystick?  Hmmm.  Wiard uses 1/8 jacks..  Pet rock 
= banana..  Hmmm.   plans on using bananas on your future 
modules or just want to give the serge/modcan/fenix crew a taste 
of wiard??  

The handheld Joystick controller was specifically designed for 
our many friends in the Serge community. (75% of Wiard owners 
also own Serge systems). The outputs are 5 volts in range, 
rather than the 10 volt outputs of the Frac-Rac version.

To the extent possible, each 1200 series module will be 
designed to fit either, 1/8", 1/4" or banana connectors. Although, 
unless it is a special issue such as the "Rock Block" Joysticks, 
only 1/8" are planned. But for say, $20 more we could fit banana 
connectors by custom order.

The Wiard was designed in 1996. At that time, the only modulars 
that used 1/4" jacks were the Moog 900 and Roland 700 
systems (considered rare). The only system that used banana 
connectors was the Serge system and little information was 
available about the number in the field.  The ARP 2500 and 
2600, Roland 100 and 100m, Aries 300, Digisound, Blacet, PAIA, 
Doepfer and Wiard all use 1/8"(3.5mm) connectors. This makes 
1/8"(3.5mm) connectors the defacto standard. 3.5mm 
connectors were purpose designed for compact shielded audio 
connectors in non-military applications.

Since then, a number of new designs have appeared that use 
non-standard connectors. The MOTM modules use 1/4" jacks. 
Modcan, Fenix and Cyndistries modules use banana 
connectors. These all appeared after the Wiard was designed.

Each connector type has advantages and disadvantages. There 
is no "wrong" connector if it does the job. If you are going to be 
using modulars, it is a good idea to just get used to tying 
different types together. It might seem like a big deal at first, but 
it's quite trivial when you get used to it.

>Are many of the jacks on the present modules switching things 
in and out? ie, would bananizing wiard modules be feasible??

All the jacks on a Wiard module are mounted to a thick printed 
circuit board. They form a complete sub-assembly which can be 
replaced in less than 15 minutes. (replacement jack boards are 
$20 each). H.F. Johnson does make a banana connector that fits 
into a 1/4" hole, and a few modules have banana connectors. 
But it is not recommended because of the difficulty in repair.

One of the problems with historical modulars is maintaining 
them, because they were not designed to be maintained. Each 
Blue faced Wiard module is designed from the ground up for 
long term maintenance.

Standard jack?  Never knew there was one!

You left out some other little synths in your list
(off the top of my head):

Polyfusion
Emu
Wavemakers
PPG

Also, many DIY modular projects had used 1/4"
connectors and many 1/8" and banana jack modulars had
1/4" jacks on them somewhere to interface with the
outside world by 1996.

> The Wiard was designed in 1996. At that time, the
> only modulars 
> that used 1/4" jacks were the Moog 900 and Roland
> 700 systems (considered rare). 

--Todd

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Just to play devil's advocate here, Emu, Wavemakers, Polyfusion, EML,
PPG all used 1/4" jacks.  I also don't consider the Roland 700 to be all
that rare. The most common semi-modulars of all, the Korg MS-10 and
MS-20, used 1/4" jacks.  There was not a preponderance of 1/8" systems.
It was closer to a 50/50 split between 1/4" and 1/8", with maybe 5%
banana jacks.  I would hardly consider 1/4" jacks to be a "non-standard"
connector, or 1/8" the defacto standard.

Synton is another banana modular, but fairly uncommon.

I agree that patching between 1/4, 1/8 and banana domains is not that
big a deal.  The hard part for me is co-locating systems in different
cabinets within suitable patching distance.

John Loffink
jloffink@austin.rr.com 

> The Wiard was designed in 1996. At that time, the only modulars
> that used 1/4" jacks were the Moog 900 and Roland 700
> systems (considered rare). The only system that used banana
> connectors was the Serge system and little information was
> available about the number in the field.  The ARP 2500 and
> 2600, Roland 100 and 100m, Aries 300, Digisound, Blacet, PAIA,
> Doepfer and Wiard all use 1/8"(3.5mm) connectors. This makes
> 1/8"(3.5mm) connectors the defacto standard. 3.5mm
> connectors were purpose designed for compact shielded audio
> connectors in non-military applications.
> 
> Since then, a number of new designs have appeared that use
> non-standard connectors. The MOTM modules use 1/4" jacks.
> Modcan, Fenix and Cyndistries modules use banana
> connectors. These all appeared after the Wiard was designed.
> 
> Each connector type has advantages and disadvantages. There
> is no "wrong" connector if it does the job. If you are going to be
> using modulars, it is a good idea to just get used to tying
> different types together. It might seem like a big deal at first, but
> it's quite trivial when you get used to it.
>

--- In wiardgroup@y..., "John Loffink" <jloffink@a...> wrote:
> Just to play devil's advocate here, Emu, Wavemakers, 
Polyfusion, EML,
> PPG all used 1/4" jacks.  I also don't consider the Roland 700 
to be all
> that rare. The most common semi-modulars of all, the Korg 
MS-10 and
> MS-20, used 1/4" jacks.  There was not a preponderance of 
1/8" systems.
> It was closer to a 50/50 split between 1/4" and 1/8", with maybe 
5%
> banana jacks.  I would hardly consider 1/4" jacks to be a 
"non-standard"
> connector, or 1/8" the defacto standard.

OK, I forgot about those ;^) That's what I get for typing at 3 AM and 
making broad statements about "standards".

I guess the point I was trying to make was, as of the knowledge I 
had in 1996, I was under the impression that there were 
numerically more instruments/modules in the field with 1/8" 
jacks. So it would be in the customers best interest to have 1/8" 
connectors on the Wiard.

I actually try to collect numbers on these instruments. But it is all 
hearsay, and I can't claim any accuracy

Paul Schrieber told me he heard there were 6500 Moog 
modules produced (hope I'm not mis-quoting you Paul).

A very nice fellow from EML said in a letter that there were 400 
EML 200s and 1000 EML 101s made. The 101 wasn't 
completely patched out though.

"Vintage Synthesizers" quotes the production run of Polyfusion 
synthesizers at "about 150" systems (unknown number of 
modules).

I heard there were only 50 Roland System 700s made. But 1000 
of the 100 series and a pretty large run of 100m modules (more 
common in Europe and Asia?).

I've never heard any statistics on Wavemakers, PPG or EMU, but 
I think they were produced in relatively small quantities?

I am under the impression that the ARP 2600 was produced in 
pretty large volume, perhaps as many as 10,000 units? I've seen 
serial numbers as high as 28,000 but I don't think they are 
sequential?

Aries 300 production is anybodies guess.

Anyway, between the Rolands and the ARP 2600, it seemed the 
1/8" connector was the best choice to make you folks happy.

It turns out the real winner is Serge, with over 2500 panel/racks 
in the field, figuring an average of 6 modules per rack, that's like 
15,000+ modules shipped. If only Rex had gotten here sooner...

If anyone has any hearsay to add, please chime in. Electronic 
music is very much an oral history at this point.

> I actually try to collect numbers on these instruments. But it is all
> hearsay, and I can't claim any accuracy
> 
> Paul Schrieber told me he heard there were 6500 Moog
> modules produced (hope I'm not mis-quoting you Paul).
> 

I've heard a similar number as well.

> A very nice fellow from EML said in a letter that there were 400
> EML 200s and 1000 EML 101s made. The 101 wasn't
> completely patched out though.
> 
> "Vintage Synthesizers" quotes the production run of Polyfusion
> synthesizers at "about 150" systems (unknown number of
> modules).
> 
> I heard there were only 50 Roland System 700s made. But 1000
> of the 100 series and a pretty large run of 100m modules (more
> common in Europe and Asia?).
> 
> I've never heard any statistics on Wavemakers, PPG or EMU, but
> I think they were produced in relatively small quantities?

Emu sold about 100 systems (ref: Vintage Synthesizers), but some of
these were huge 100+ module systems.  For PPG it is hard to tell.
Wavemakers I suspect was less than 100 systems, perhaps only dozens of
systems, and smaller systems than Emu.

> I am under the impression that the ARP 2600 was produced in
> pretty large volume, perhaps as many as 10,000 units? I've seen
> serial numbers as high as 28,000 but I don't think they are
> sequential?

I doubt Arp 2600 sold anywhere near Minimoog volumes (13,000).  Still it
is fairly common, certainly in the thousands.

> Aries 300 production is anybodies guess.
> 
> Anyway, between the Rolands and the ARP 2600, it seemed the
> 1/8" connector was the best choice to make you folks happy.
> 
> It turns out the real winner is Serge, with over 2500 panel/racks
> in the field, figuring an average of 6 modules per rack, that's like
> 15,000+ modules shipped. If only Rex had gotten here sooner...
> 

That's the first number I've ever heard for Serge and much more than I
expected.  

John Loffink
jloffink@austin.rr.com