The Mellotron Group

First problem is that M-tron samples suck.
 
 
In a message dated 7/20/2009 5:27:20 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
fourtytwominds@yahoo.com writes:

 
 
 
Hello all.

My name is Sean Lowrie. Sadly I do not own a 'tron, just  the M-Tron 
samples; a
MkVI is on my wish list. I've asked this question at  the "Mellotronists" 
group and a member there suggested I should ask this group  as well.

I've had the samples for about a year and a half and I'm still  trying to 
come up
with the correct signal handling and mixing to get the  megalithic Moody 
Blues
and King Crimson sounds I'm used to.

Last  week I made a breakthrough. I'm currently splitting the output and  
taking
that into to separate unbalanced inputs on my small multitrack  mixer. First
channel I leave dry, cut the low and high, and boost the mid  range. The 
second
channel I send all the signal to the internal effects  unit on this board 
for
reverb. (It's an Alesis board and I'm fairly happy  with their electronic 
reverb
circuitry, which even creates slightly  different results for left and right
channels) I have this signal boosted  in lows and highs but scooped in the 
mid
range: an approximate mirror of  the dry channel settings. On my board L is 
80Hz,
M is 2.5kHz, and H is  12kHz. I'm getting fairly close to the sound I want,
fairly close indeed,  but I'm not there. I finally have the presence and in
general a megalithic  quality in sound.

What I don't have is the chocolate-smooth sound that  I'm used to out of 
King
Crimson. I'm thinking specifically the studio  tracks "Lament" and "The 
Night
Watch" from the 1974 album Starless and  Bible Black. When I listen to these
tracks I notice that the sound has  more... for lack of a better term 
"breath."
The sound seems to be of much  higher fidelity than I'm used to out of the
Mellotron while still retaining  the distinctive Mellotron sound.

Through research on the internet I'm  sure these tracks were studio 
recorded on
two well maintained M400s. I've  tried every sort of search I can imagine in
Google, I've been hitting the  King Crimson fan sites hoping for 
information.
I've learned that RF  scuttled an entire 2009 KC West Coast USA tour, that's
where I live, over  some hurt feelings or something, it's not clear what, 
but
nothing on their  mixing techniques.

I'm listening to The Night Watch as I'm writing this  long question. The 
sound is
not any more present, and actually less  megalithic than what I have, but 
it has
time-CLARITY (not just a boost in  the 4kHz area) that I cannot seem to 
achieve,
along with a slight bit of  chorus type phasing I think.

On the front of the Moody Blues sound, I  can't seem to get my sound as 
sleepy as
Mike Pinder can. I understand his  MkII he modified himself, but to my
understanding he only removed the  pre-amp circuit that boosted the signal 
at
10kHz. The "tone" knob on  M-Tron, as on the real deal (to my 
understanding) is
also at 10kHz and so I  keep that real low, around 9'o'clock...

The sound still isn't there.  Infact, it seems too dull and smeared. I 
pulled out
Days of Future Passed  and listened to Tuesday Afternoon. I'm fairly sure 
the
lead is "Trumpets  and Trombones" doubled with "MkII Violins" and the 
harmony is
"MkII Brass"  again doubled with the violins. However, I'm noticing that 
the note
attacks  on the record have more of a harsh garbled attack, and my samples
actually  sound more like the instruments sampled than Mr. Pinder's MkII 
does.  If
it's a matter of tape cutting I'm sure I can't do anything about  it.

But still that's not entirely the whole problem. I'm still not  getting the
chocolate-smooth sound that is also hollow and graceful. I  asked Mr. 
Pinder on
his own forum, but that was nearly a year ago and I  don't think he's 
logged in
to the forum in all this time. His right  certainly to do so. Doesn't solve 
my
ignorance though...

Is it a  matter of compression technique? Using a haphazard collection of  
all
digital equipment I don't have access to real-time compression, only  after 
the
fact in Audacity and so I tend to avoid compression as it becomes  too much 
of
guess-and-check work. Is there something else I'm missing out  on? When it 
comes
to the violin sound I've taken the care to exclusively  use what M-Tron 
names
"MkII Vintage Violins" which is by far the highest  fidelity version of 
that tape
set the sample set has. It's REALLY good.  Still, I know I'm missing out on
something.

So, after 3 chapters  worth of ranting (damn this is a loooooong question 
I've
got) I ask you  all, you who are lucky enough to have and use a real 
Mellotron
(or those  who have gotten really good at using the sample software), for 
your
expert  opinions and advice. I've been banging my head into a wall on this 
one
and  I've lost confidence that I'll get any further than this on my  own.

Thanks to you all so much, you deserve a cookie or dinner or  something for 
even
reading through what has got to be one of the longest  emails in the last 
decade.

-Sean Lowrie
_fourtytwominds@fourtytwo_ (mailto:fourtytwominds@yahoo.com) 





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