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Re: Mellotron 4-track update

Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

So I have been working on about a half dozen projects at once but I am nearly done with the 4-Track. I am going to post some more pictures on the Yahoo site, but I wanted to share some information about what I have discovered along the way.
As I said in a previous post, I think this could have been the best Mellotron yet if it had reached the production stage, but there are a bunch of screw-up that make no sense. It seems obvious that there were some shortcuts taken here and the way some of the components are assembled doesn't make sense.
I posted a little (self serving) video on You Tube that shows the method I used to align the tape head, which were all over the place when I really took a good look at them. None of the techniques I used are applicable to a M-400. I think they will prove to be correct, but I'm feeling my way along as I go.
So here are some photos and their descriptions. I will post them on Yahoo later tonight.
Part of my shop. There are 4 other Mellotrons down here, two behind me and two more in the other room that are not in need of service (one being the M4000) The pretty white one is #600, back for a new set of pinch rollers, a little tune-up and a couple of mods. On the rack is the guts of the (formerly blue) Mellotron and the 4-track main frame.
The rubber on all of the pinch rollers is in good shape, but notice that the rubber is not glued to the hub. So if someone were to really crank down the set screw, the rollers become egg-shaped as they turn. I may get some rubberized CA glue and try and glue them to the hubs. Martin was right, they are cheap shit... but soft.
The pressure pad rest is so low that even when the key is released the tape is in constant contact with the pressure pad. I removed the spacer on each end between the rods and the frame. This solved the problem.
The head block is fixed. I used the piece of aluminum stock and the piece of spruce to properly align all of the heads. Interestingly, Even if the center heads are in perfect alignment with the tape guides, They are a little off (a few thousandths) near either end. I adjusted the head height the best I could and I think it will be substantially better than it was. You can learn more in the video.
The heads are all pushed against the aluminum rail to get them straight and to zero the azimuths. The same was done on the back set.
The piece of spruce was stuck back though the metal take guides and used to align the spill box.
Oddly, there were no felt isolator pads on either the pressure pad springs or the key springs. Every time you depressed a key you got a nice click, though. I will go back and individually adjust each pressure pad as I install each key. The pressure pads were all bent up and no two were the same. I made a some little wood jigs so I could get them all the same. The short ones are bent a bit different at the tips then the long ones so that they press properly against the heads.

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by Gary Brumm

Nice documentation Frank. Was there any sign of wear on the heads? Would finding a replacement head be a problem or is there an off the shelf

generic replacement available that would work?

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:23 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com; Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

So I have been working on about a half dozen projects at once but I am nearly done with the 4-Track. I am going to post some more pictures on the Yahoo site, but I wanted to share some information about what I have discovered along the way.

As I said in a previous post, I think this could have been the best Mellotron yet if it had reached the production stage, but there are a bunch of screw-up that make no sense. It seems obvious that there were some shortcuts taken here and the way some of the components are assembled doesn't make sense.

I posted a little (self serving) video on You Tube that shows the method I used to align the tape head, which were all over the place when I really took a good look at them. None of the techniques I used are applicable to a M-400. I think they will prove to be correct, but I'm feeling my way along as I go.

So here are some photos and their descriptions. I will post them on Yahoo later tonight.

Part of my shop. There are 4 other Mellotrons down here, two behind me and two more in the other room that are not in need of service (one being the M4000) The pretty white one is #600, back for a new set of pinch rollers, a little tune-up and a couple of mods. On the rack is the guts of the (formerly blue) Mellotron and the 4-track main frame.

The rubber on all of the pinch rollers is in good shape, but notice that the rubber is not glued to the hub. So if someone were to really crank down the set screw, the rollers become egg-shaped as they turn. I may get some rubberized CA glue and try and glue them to the hubs. Martin was right, they are cheap shit... but soft.

The pressure pad rest is so low that even when the key is released the tape is in constant contact with the pressure pad. I removed the spacer on each end between the rods and the frame. This solved the problem.

The head block is fixed. I used the piece of aluminum stock and the piece of spruce to properly align all of the heads. Interestingly, Even if the center heads are in perfect alignment with the tape guides, They are a little off (a few thousandths) near either end. I adjusted the head height the best I could and I think it will be substantially better than it was. You can learn more in the video.

The heads are all pushed against the aluminum rail to get them straight and to zero the azimuths. The same was done on the back set.

The piece of spruce was stuck back though the metal take guides and used to align the spill box.

Oddly, there were no felt isolator pads on either the pressure pad springs or the key springs. Every time you depressed a key you got a nice click, though. I will go back and individually adjust each pressure pad as I install each key. The pressure pads were all bent up and no two were the same. I made a some little wood jigs so I could get them all the same. The short ones are bent a bit different at the tips then the long ones so that they press properly against the heads.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

The tape heads look to be in excellent condition. They were manufactured by Michigan Magnetics, who are still in business. Their web site claims that they make two and four track tape heads, so I imagine that comparable products may be had. I also imagine that their head technology has advanced since then. There are no descriptions or prices on their web site. It says that you have to contact "sales" to for product information and data sheets.
In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:37:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

Nice documentation Frank. Was there any sign of wear on the heads? Would finding a replacement head be a problem or is there an off the shelf

generic replacement available that would work?

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by Gary Brumm

I can’t wait to hear it when you’re done!

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:56 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

The tape heads look to be in excellent condition. They were manufactured by Michigan Magnetics, who are still in business. Their web site claims that they make two and four track tape heads, so I imagine that comparable products may be had. I also imagine that their head technology has advanced since then. There are no descriptions or prices on their web site. It says that you have to contact "sales" to for product information and data sheets.

In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:37:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

Nice documentation Frank. Was there any sign of wear on the heads? Would finding a replacement head be a problem or is there an off the shelf

generic replacement available that would work?

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

Me neither. I can't do any more until the new tapes come. Otherwise, I finished all the mechanicals tonight. I may have to service some of the electronics or adjust the motor, so I have a few hours of work left but I want to get the new tapes in it and see what I have to work with.
I can tell you this, the keyboard is very simple compared to an M-400. However, the stamped metal frame was bent somewhat and the I had to rebend parts of it to get it back right (again?) I have spent nearly twice as many hours on it as I planned and the amount of time I estimated to get this far was a fantasy. But it is coming along.
In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:59:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

I can’t wait to hear it when you’re done!

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by sdavmor

lsf5275@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Me neither. I can't do any more until the new tapes come. Otherwise, I
> finished all the mechanicals tonight. I may have to service some of the
> electronics or adjust the motor, so I have a few hours of work left but
> I want to get the new tapes in it and see what I have to work with.
>
> I can tell you this, the keyboard is very simple compared to an M-400.
> However, the stamped metal frame was bent somewhat and the I had to
> rebend parts of it to get it back right (again?) I have spent nearly
> twice as many hours on it as I planned and the amount of time I
> estimated to get this far was a fantasy. But it is coming along.
>
> In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:59:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gabru@comsec.net writes:
>
> I can’t wait to hear it when you’re done!

lol! it must be love!
--
Cheers, SDM -- a 21st Century Schizoid Man
Systems Theory music project: <www.systemstheory.net>
on MySpace: <www.myspace.com/systemstheory>
on GarageBand: <www.garageband.com/systemstheory>
on Last FM: <www.last.fm/music/Systems+Theory>
on CDBaby: CDBaby <www.cdbaby.com/all/systemstheory>
get "Codetalkers" *free* at <www.mikedickson.org.uk/codetalkers>
NP: nowt

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by Lee Richards

this sounds like a TRUE Artist.
Lee


lsf5275@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Me neither. I can't do any more until the new tapes come. Otherwise, I
> finished all the mechanicals tonight. I may have to service some of
> the electronics or adjust the motor, so I have a few hours of work
> left but I want to get the new tapes in it and see what I have to work
> with.
>
> I can tell you this, the keyboard is very simple compared to an M-400.
> However, the stamped metal frame was bent somewhat and the I had to
> rebend parts of it to get it back right (again?) I have spent nearly
> twice as many hours on it as I planned and the amount of time I
> estimated to get this far was a fantasy. But it is coming along.
>
> In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:59:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gabru@comsec.net writes:
>
> I can’t wait to hear it when you’re done!
>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

It belongs to a customer. It'll be done when it's done. I may never do another one of these, but this one is going to be as good as I can make it. I wonder if the 4th one was different from this one.
In a message dated 11/12/2009 12:44:45 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sdavmor@systemstheory.net writes:
lol! it must be love!

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by tronbros@aol.com

The problems Frank has encountered are exactly the same on the 4 Track we restored except we also had a bent capstan and none parallel parts to contend with. The capstan and the tape storage box were at an angle to each other! Having said that, the idea was excellent and if they had built 10 or more, the design would have been honed and set in stone. It just never had a a chance sadly.
Best,
Martin
Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
www.mellotronics.com
M4000 tour de force - UK trailer http://thebox-movie.warnerbros.com/
US Sales East: Jimmy Moore JMoore6397@aol.com
US Sales West: Paul Cox pjc56@earthlink
Chloe Smith: myspace.com/chloesmithmusic

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by kinchmusic@aol.com

Nice job Frank!
Thanks for the video. It's great to see one of these up close. Are you going to do another vid when the beast is up and running so we can hear it?
Martin. What's the situation regarding replacement tapes for one of these?
Nice...................!
Andy K


-----Original Message-----
From: tronbros@aol.com
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 7:52
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

The problems Frank has encountered are exactly the same on the 4 Track we restored except we also had a bent capstan and none parallel parts to contend with. The capstan and the tape storage box were at an angle to each other! Having said that, the idea was excellent and if they had built 10 or more, the design would have been honed and set in stone. It just never had a a chance sadly.
Best,
Martin
Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
www.mellotronics. com
M4000 tour de force - UK trailer http://thebox- movie.warnerbros .com/
US Sales East: Jimmy Moore JMoore6397@aol. com
US Sales West: Paul Cox pjc56@earthlink
Chloe Smith: myspace.com/ chloesmithmusic

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by tronbros@aol.com

In a message dated 12/11/2009 08:31:02 GMT Standard Time, kinchmusic@aol.com writes:
Martin. What's the situation regarding replacement tapes for one of these?
No probs. They are commercial azimuth as oppsoed to mellotron azimuth. We have a 4 track recorder and EMI tape stock.
Best,
M
Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
www.mellotronics.com
M4000 tour de force - UK trailer http://thebox-movie.warnerbros.com/
US Sales East: Jimmy Moore JMoore6397@aol.com
US Sales West: Paul Cox pjc56@earthlink
Chloe Smith: myspace.com/chloesmithmusic

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

When it is done, I will make a video of it being played.
In a message dated 11/12/2009 3:30:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kinchmusic@aol.com writes:
Thanks for the video. It's great to see one of these up close. Are you going to do another vid when the beast is up and running so we can hear it?
Martin. What's the situation regarding replacement tapes for one of these?

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by Gary Brumm

As far as the new tapes go are they going to be dubs of the original 4 track, M400, etc. or something recorded from scratch?

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:15 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

Me neither. I can't do any more until the new tapes come. Otherwise, I finished all the mechanicals tonight. I may have to service some of the electronics or adjust the motor, so I have a few hours of work left but I want to get the new tapes in it and see what I have to work with.

I can tell you this, the keyboard is very simple compared to an M-400. However, the stamped metal frame was bent somewhat and the I had to rebend parts of it to get it back right (again?) I have spent nearly twice as many hours on it as I planned and the amount of time I estimated to get this far was a fantasy. But it is coming along.

In a message dated 11/11/2009 11:59:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

I can’t wait to hear it when you’re done!

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by Bruce Daily

Nice job, Frank! What voices will be on the initial tape frame?
It just dawned on me: we are truely part of an elite group. Just the mention of the number "35" will make our backs ache!
-Bruce D.


--- On Wed, 11/11/09, lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

From: lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 9:55 PM

The tape heads look to be in excellent condition. They were manufactured by Michigan Magnetics, who are still in business. Their web site claims that they make two and four track tape heads, so I imagine that comparable products may be had. I also imagine that their head technology has advanced since then. There are no descriptions or prices on their web site. It says that you have to contact "sales" to for product information and data sheets.

generic replacement available that would work?


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by lsf5275@aol.com

The owner has ordered two sets of tapes. On one set will be the standard Mark II Strings, 8 choir, mixed brass and, I think, St. John's Wood organ. On the second set, I think he will opt for some less well known voices. Incidentally, I built that wooden frame to allow me to work standing up. I can lace frames, work on it, azimuth heads, set keys or test different components without having to stoop and peer into the cabinet. I can even play them while they are out of their cabinets. It also saves bench room and allows me to roll them from place to place in the shop
In a message dated 11/12/2009 10:47:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:
Nice job, Frank! What voices will be on the initial tape frame?
It just dawned on me: we are truely part of an elite group. Just the mention of the number "35" will make our backs ache!
-Bruce D.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-12 by kinchmusic@aol.com

Wow. Wasn't expecting that!
:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: tronbros@aol.com
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 9:04
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

In a message dated 12/11/2009 08:31:02 GMT Standard Time, kinchmusic@aol. com writes:
Martin. What's the situation regarding replacement tapes for one of these?
No probs. They are commercial azimuth as oppsoed to mellotron azimuth. We have a 4 track recorder and EMI tape stock.
Best,
M
Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
www.mellotronics. com
M4000 tour de force - UK trailer http://thebox- movie.warnerbros .com/
US Sales East: Jimmy Moore JMoore6397@aol. com
US Sales West: Paul Cox pjc56@earthlink
Chloe Smith: myspace.com/ chloesmithmusic

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-13 by Bruce Daily

Hey Frank-
Great updates.
I built a bench too. It's solid & square, but not as tall as yours. It sure helped when installing and aligning the capstan/flywheel in the bearings.
-Bruce D.


--- On Thu, 11/12/09, lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

From: lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:58 AM

The owner has ordered two sets of tapes. On one set will be the standard Mark II Strings, 8 choir, mixed brass and, I think, St. John's Wood organ. On the second set, I think he will opt for some less well known voices. Incidentally, I built that wooden frame to allow me to work standing up. I can lace frames, work on it, azimuth heads, set keys or test different components without having to stoop and peer into the cabinet. I can even play them while they are out of their cabinets. It also saves bench room and allows me to roll them from place to place in the shop
In a message dated 11/12/2009 10:47:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo. com writes:
Nice job, Frank! What voices will be on the initial tape frame?
It just dawned on me: we are truely part of an elite group. Just the mention of the number "35" will make our backs ache!
-Bruce D.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

2009-11-13 by kinchmusic@aol.com

Makes you wonder just how many moreTrons are left out there that are still in need of restoration.
I think it's marvelous what you are all doing.
Big respect.
Andy K


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Daily <pocotron@yahoo.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 5:28
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update

Hey Frank-
Great updates.
I built a bench too. It's solid & square, but not as tall as yours. It sure helped when installing and aligning the capstan/flywheel in the bearings.
-Bruce D.


--- On Thu, 11/12/09, lsf5275@aol. com <lsf5275@aol. com> wrote:

From: lsf5275@aol. com <lsf5275@aol. com>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron 4-track update
To: newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009, 9:58 AM

The owner has ordered two sets of tapes. On one set will be the standard Mark II Strings, 8 choir, mixed brass and, I think, St. John's Wood organ. On the second set, I think he will opt for some less well known voices. Incidentally, I built that wooden frame to allow me to work standing up. I can lace frames, work on it, azimuth heads, set keys or test different components without having to stoop and peer into the cabinet. I can even play them while they are out of their cabinets. It also saves bench room and allows me to roll them from place to place in the shop
In a message dated 11/12/2009 10:47:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo. com writes:
Nice job, Frank! What voices will be on the initial tape frame?
It just dawned on me: we are truely part of an elite group. Just the mention of the number "35" will make our backs ache!
-Bruce D.