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Lizard

Lizard

2009-10-27 by Mike Dickson

I've just played through the '40th Anniversary' remix of Lizard and it seems to be more of the same. Weird mixing decisions. Odd stereo placements. McCullochs (frankly) annoying snare stuck way too high in the mix. But worst of all is what they do to the Mellotron. It's fairly well established in Cirkus and has a prominent place in the alternative version of Lady of the Dancing Water, but unfortunately it's posted missing in my favourite bit in the album.

The coda to the god-awful Jon Anderson song features a colossal Mellotron section that restates the melody from the verse, culminating in a wonderful resolution to A which then drops to A minor in entrance to the bolero. Oh dear. But it doesn't. The harmonic complexities of this section are lost once we realise that of the two Mellotronii recorded for this section, only one is on the new recording. Consequently, it all sounds a bit thin and a bit anti-climactic.

On the positive side, the clarity on the CD is breathtaking, but the mixing decisions are weird in the extreme. 
-- 
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

Free Music Project: http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/ 
Or http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
Or http://soundcloud.com/mikedickson
Or http://www.planetmellotron.com/revd4.htm#mikedickson


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-27 by lsf5275@aol.com

In a message dated 10/27/2009 6:38:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
tspit74@comcast.net writes:

Bruford is no slouch either, but I have to say that when Fripp says  that 
Bill lacked subtlety and taste, he's absolutely right. 
 
 
Yes, but doesn't the fact that Fripp said that publicly demonstrate his  
lack of subtlety and taste?
 
Frank

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-27 by Daniel Swanson

Thanks Mike. Lizard still sounds great on vinyl and the 30th  
anniversary remasters, so that's what I'll stick with.

A friend of mine bought the new Red package. I haven't paid much  
attention to the music, but I've watched the video portion about 10  
times. Starless is awesome with Fripp's Mellotron and pianet painted  
black and Cross' painted white. Bruford is no slouch either, but I  
have to say that when Fripp says that Bill lacked subtlety and taste,  
he's absolutely right. Probably terrible to play with, but fun for us  
to listen to and watch.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:

> I've just played through the '40th Anniversary' remix of Lizard and  
> it seems to be more of the same. Weird mixing decisions. Odd stereo  
> placements. McCullochs (frankly) annoying snare stuck way too high  
> in the mix. But worst of all is what they do to the Mellotron. It's  
> fairly well established in Cirkus and has a prominent place in the  
> alternative version of Lady of the Dancing Water, but unfortunately  
> it's posted missing in my favourite bit in the album.
>
> The coda to the god-awful Jon Anderson song features a colossal  
> Mellotron section that restates the melody from the verse,  
> culminating in a wonderful resolution to A which then drops to A  
> minor in entrance to the bolero. Oh dear. But it doesn't. The  
> harmonic complexities of this section are lost once we realise that  
> of the two Mellotronii recorded for this section, only one is on the  
> new recording. Consequently, it all sounds a bit thin and a bit anti- 
> climactic.
>
> On the positive side, the clarity on the CD is breathtaking, but the  
> mixing decisions are weird in the extreme.
>
> -- 
> Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
>
> Free Music Project: http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/
> Or http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
> Or http://soundcloud.com/mikedickson
> Or http://www.planetmellotron.com/revd4.htm#mikedickson
>
>
>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-27 by kinchmusic@aol.com

Daniel.
While I agree with some of what Mike says. For all the differences compared to the original mix, there remains the fact that what we have here really sounds incredible given it's age. Cirkus, for example, explodes into the room, and sounds masive, with instruments coming from everywhere! It really is how surround should be used.
For the sake of a few quid, you would miss out on a totally revitalised recording.
Yes it is different. But what's wrong with it being a different interpretation of what we all have known for so long?
Don't forget you will also be buying the original mix (2004 master edition) in lossless audio in the same package.
It's the same as with ITCOTCK. Yes, there are differences and ommisions,sure. But I now prefer the new mix in both 2 channel and 5.1 over the original, simply because the new version really kicks ass, in a way the original could only dream about.
IMHO of course!
Andy K
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Swanson <tspit74@comcast.net>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:48
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard


 



Thanks Mike. Lizard still sounds great on vinyl and the 30th anniversary remasters, so that's what I'll stick with.


A friend of mine bought the new Red package. I haven't paid much attention to the music, but I've watched the video portion about 10 times. Starless is awesome with Fripp's Mellotron and pianet painted black and Cross' painted white. Bruford is no slouch either, but I have to say that when Fripp says that Bill lacked subtlety and taste, he's absolutely right. Probably terrible to play with, but fun for us to listen to and watch.


On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:







I've just played through the '40th Anniversary' remix of Lizard and it seems to be more of the same. Weird mixing decisions. Odd stereo placements. McCullochs (frankly) annoying snare stuck way too high in the mix. But worst of all is what they do to the Mellotron. It's fairly well established in Cirkus and has a prominent place in the alternative version of Lady of the Dancing Water, but unfortunately it's posted missing in my favourite bit in the album.

The coda to the god-awful Jon Anders on song features a colossal Mellotron section that restates the melody from the verse, culminating in a wonderful resolution to A which then drops to A minor in entrance to the bolero. Oh dear. But it doesn't. The harmonic complexities of this section are lost once we realise that of the two Mellotronii recorded for this section, only one is on the new recording. Consequently, it all sounds a bit thin and a bit anti-climactic. 

On the positive side, the clarity on the CD is breathtaking, but the mixing decisions are weird in the extreme. 

-- 
ike Dickson, Edinburgh
Free Music Project: http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/ 
r http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
r http://soundcloud.com/mikedickson
r http://www.planetmellotron.com/revd4.htm#mikedickson

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-27 by David Jacques

That is a total deal-killer for me... That Mellotron part in Lizard  
was incredible. Figures they would fuck it up.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Oct 27, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:

> I've just played through the '40th Anniversary' remix of Lizard and  
> it seems to be more of the same. Weird mixing decisions. Odd stereo  
> placements. McCullochs (frankly) annoying snare stuck way too high  
> in the mix. But worst of all is what they do to the Mellotron. It's  
> fairly well established in Cirkus and has a prominent place in the  
> alternative version of Lady of the Dancing Water, but unfortunately  
> it's posted missing in my favourite bit in the album.
>
> The coda to the god-awful Jon Anderson song features a colossal  
> Mellotron section that restates the melody from the verse,  
> culminating in a wonderful resolution to A which then drops to A  
> minor in entrance to the bolero. Oh dear. But it doesn't. The  
> harmonic complexities of this section are lost once we realise that  
> of the two Mellotronii recorded for this section, only one is on the  
> new recording. Consequently, it all sounds a bit thin and a bit anti- 
> climactic.
>
> On the positive side, the clarity on the CD is breathtaking, but the  
> mixing decisions are weird in the extreme.
>
> -- 
> Mike Dickson, Edinburgh
>
> Free Music Project: http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/
> Or http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
> Or http://soundcloud.com/mikedickson
> Or http://www.planetmellotron.com/revd4.htm#mikedickson
>
>
>
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-28 by fdoddy@aol.com

If Bruford lacked subtlety and taste to Fripp, why did he hire him so goddam much?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: lsf5275@aol.com
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2009 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard






















    

                  




In a message dated 10/27/2009 6:38:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
tspit74@comcast.net writes:


Bruford is no slouch either, but I have to say that when Fripp says 
  that Bill lacked subtlety and taste, he's absolutely right. 


 


 


Yes, but doesn't the fact that Fripp said that publicly demonstrate his 
lack of subtlety and taste?


 


Frank

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-28 by John Wright

This may be a bit naïve, but do you think these alternative mixes are done deliberately to ensure the sale of the next release? Like I mentioned in a different post about the Genesis live album box set, the vocals were made very prominent. I’m sure some prefer the vocals up front and the music further in the back. Maybe next time we’ll get guitar prominent mix and eventually Tron heavy in the mix.

I do love the alternative tracks, however, that you get on re-releases. For example, Blue Note records almost always has 2 or 3 alternative takes of the same song on a CD.

John

#911


From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Swanson
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:49 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

Thanks Mike. Lizard still sounds great on vinyl and the 30th anniversary remasters, so that's what I'll stick with.


A friend of mine bought the new Red package. I haven't paid much attention to the music, but I've watched the video portion about 10 times. Starless is awesome with Fripp's Mellotron and pianet painted black and Cross' painted white. Bruford is no slouch either, but I have to say that when Fripp says that Bill lacked subtlety and taste, he's absolutely right. Probably terrible to play with, but fun for us to listen to and watch.
On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:

I've just played through the '40th Anniversary' remix of Lizard and it seems to be more of the same. Weird mixing decisions. Odd stereo placements. McCullochs (frankly) annoying snare stuck way too high in the mix. But worst of all is what they do to the Mellotron. It's fairly well established in Cirkus and has a prominent place in the alternative version of Lady of the Dancing Water, but unfortunately it's posted missing in my fav o urite bit in the album.

The coda to the god-awful Jon Anderson song features a colossal Mellotron section that restates the melody from the verse, culminating in a wonderful resolution to A which then drops to A minor in entrance to the bolero. Oh dear. But it doesn't. The harmonic complexities of this section are lost once we realise that of the two Mellotronii recorded for this section, only one is on the new recording. Consequently, it all sounds a bit thin and a bit anti-climactic.

On the positive side, the clarity on the CD is breathtaking, but the mixing decisions are weird in the extreme. 

-- 
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

Free Music Project: http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/ 
Or http://www.last.fm/music/Mike+Dickson
Or http://soundcloud.com/mikedickson
Or http://www.planetmellotron.com/revd4.htm#mikedickson




Re: [newmellotrongroup] Lizard

2009-10-28 by lsf5275@aol.com

That's what I say.
 
 
In a message dated 10/28/2009 1:07:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
fdoddy@aol.com writes:

If Bruford lacked  subtlety and taste to Fripp, why did he hire him so 
goddam  much?

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