The Mellotron Group

Hi all-

Here is an interesting story I ran across. Mr.
Kean has sold copies of the Mellotron master tapes to
Clavia for use as samples in their Nord Wave keyboard.
According to the following article, they will NOT be
sampled from a Mellotron first.

www.gearjunkies.com/news/2332

My thought is that this type of playback will only
represent the original recorded instruments, and not
the spirit of the machine. I think it sucks. Any
other thoughts/opinions?


-Bruce D.
M400 #1221






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--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, lsf5275@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2007 7:39:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> pocotron@... writes:
>
> Here is an interesting story I ran across. Mr.
> Kean has sold copies of the Mellotron master tapes to
> Clavia for use as samples in their Nord Wave keyboard.
> According to the following article, they will NOT be
> sampled from a Mellotron first.
>
>
>
>
>
> I can confirm this, Although I'm not sure if it is for the Wave.

Markus told

> me that they were coming out with a new keyboard. However this may

actually

> be the one. It was my understanding that you could go to the

Clavia website

> with a key and download all of the sounds.
>
> We should get Markus onboard here.
>
> Frank II
>

Here's the web page:

http://www.clavia.se/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Wave

Bernie

Web site seems to suggest they will be sampled from a
mellotron

"The nord wave comes shipped with all 68 instruments
of the Mk I, Mk II, M300 and M400 Mellotrons. By
sampling the sounds using fresh tape copies and a
newly manufactured mellotron instrument - built using
vintage components - the nord wave reproduces these
sounds with all hisses and fizzes exactly as they were
meant to be."

Don't like the sound of the hisses and fizzes though.

Mark
--- lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/5/2007 7:39:28 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> pocotron@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Here is an interesting story I ran across. Mr.
> Kean has sold copies of the Mellotron master tapes
> to
> Clavia for use as samples in their Nord Wave
> keyboard.
> According to the following article, they will NOT be
> sampled from a Mellotron first.
>
>
>
>
>
> I can confirm this, Although I'm not sure if it is
> for the Wave. Markus told
> me that they were coming out with a new keyboard.
> However this may actually
> be the one. It was my understanding that you could
> go to the Clavia website
> with a key and download all of the sounds.
>
> We should get Markus onboard here.
>
> Frank II
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out
> AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
>

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

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Hi-

Yeah, the article was not new, maybe something
changed in the interim (one can only hope). Good.

I still find it hard to trust digital audio
compression techniques, as much of it sounds like
gravel to me.

The Mellotron imparts many variables upon the tape
voice, INDEPENDENT of the individual/grouped sounds.
So far, sampling keyboards don't address these
aspects. Like a key or keys being depressed and
slowing down the capstan briefly & slightly. Then the
motor catching up, maybe overshooting, then settling
down. Or, just the irregularities of the turning
capstan, which are imparted IN UNISION on all tapes,
no matter which are being played (and when). Or the
wow & flutter of a worn set of tapes, particularly on
ones played a lot. This stuff could be programmed in,
and maybe assigned user controls.

Hisses & fizz? Please, no. But keep the creaking
chairs, coughs, sniffs, auto crashes & breaking
wind... (thanks Mike D.) ;-)

-Bruce D.



--- Mark Pring <markpringnz@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Web site seems to suggest they will be sampled from
> a
> mellotron
>
> "The nord wave comes shipped with all 68 instruments
> of the Mk I, Mk II, M300 and M400 Mellotrons. By
> sampling the sounds using fresh tape copies and a
> newly manufactured mellotron instrument - built
> using
> vintage components - the nord wave reproduces these
> sounds with all hisses and fizzes exactly as they
> were
> meant to be."
>
> Don't like the sound of the hisses and fizzes
> though.
>
> Mark
> --- lsf5275@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > In a message dated 12/5/2007 7:39:28 P.M. Eastern
> > Standard Time,
> > pocotron@yahoo.com writes:
> >
> > Here is an interesting story I ran across. Mr.
> > Kean has sold copies of the Mellotron master
> tapes
> > to
> > Clavia for use as samples in their Nord Wave
> > keyboard.
> > According to the following article, they will NOT
> be
> > sampled from a Mellotron first.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I can confirm this, Although I'm not sure if it is
> > for the Wave. Markus told
> > me that they were coming out with a new keyboard.
> > However this may actually
> > be the one. It was my understanding that you could
> > go to the Clavia website
> > with a key and download all of the sounds.
> >
> > We should get Markus onboard here.
> >
> > Frank II
> >
> >
> >
> > **************************************Check out
> > AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> > products.
> >
>

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

> >
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>

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>

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----- Original Message -----

From: David Jacques

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 3:53 AM

Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron/Clavia samples

This looks like a very interesting instrument. Too bad they are only producing it in a 49 key version. I would def be more interested if there was a 76 key version… Damn, even a 61 would be acceptable to me.

Here are some interesting items from the specs…

First, 180 MB for samples seems a little stingy. I can fill my 1GB of sample memory in my Motif XS pretty quickly. The compression has to take its toll to get all those samples down in size… I do like the idea that it is flash memory and that you do not have to reload all the samples.

I am curious what the price point will be.

From: newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:newmellotro ngroup@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Bernie
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:12 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron/Clavia samples

--- In newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com, lsf5275@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2007 7:39:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> pocotron@... writes:
>
> Here is an interesting story I ran across. Mr.
> Kean has sold copies of the Mellotron master tapes to
> Clavia for use as samples in their Nord Wave keyboard.
> According to the following article, they will NOT be
> sampled from a Mellotron first.
>
>
>
>
>
> I can confirm this, Although I'm not sure if it is for the Wave.
Markus told
> me that they were coming out with a new keyboard. However this may
actually
> be the one. It was my understanding that you could go to the
Clavia website
> with a key and download all of the sounds.
>
> We should get Markus onboard here.
>
> Frank II
>

Here's the web page:

http://www.clavia. se/main.asp? tm=Products& clpm=Nord_ Wave

Bernie

There's an eBayer in California selling both the Memotron and Nord
Wave for the same price - $2699 with free shipping.

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Daily <pocotron@...>
wrote:

>

> According to the following article, they will NOT be
> sampled from a Mellotron first.
>
> www.gearjunkies.com/news/2332

According to the Nord website "a newly manufactured mellotron instrument
will be used". (MK-VI or MK-VII).

Clay

> The Mellotron imparts many variables upon the
> tape
> voice, INDEPENDENT of the individual/grouped sounds.
>
> So far, sampling keyboards don't address these
> aspects. Like a key or keys being depressed and
> slowing down the capstan briefly & slightly. Then
> the
> motor catching up, maybe overshooting, then settling
> down. Or, just the irregularities of the turning
> capstan, which are imparted IN UNISION on all tapes,
> no matter which are being played (and when). Or the
> wow & flutter of a worn set of tapes, particularly
> on
> ones played a lot. This stuff could be programmed
> in,
> and maybe assigned user controls.
>
> Hisses & fizz? Please, no. But keep the
> creaking
> chairs, coughs, sniffs, auto crashes & breaking
> wind... (thanks Mike D.) ;-)

This is interesting. All of the other irregularities
are OK, yet the anomalies on the master tapes aren't?
Hmmmmm...

I'd like to open up something to general opinion on
this subject, particularly regarding recording and
mellotron quality.

Firstly, among recordists that use mellotron, of
course we'd all like our trons to run as "perfectly"
as possible, as this means we have a properly running
machine in good condition. This is a given. But it
has been my experience that the wobble, click and
other clumsy functions of a somewhat "vulnerable" unit
are often preferred to a clean and even playback.

There have been many times in my studio that EMI103S
has been running too well for the track (surprise,
surprise as it ended up #8 on the worst list). As my
tron has good days and "bad", we have often had to
either simulate these instabilities (bumping the
flywheel on occasion or adjusting the action, etc.) or
wait and record the next day or so when the tron had a
more irreverent functionality. There is nothing more
eerie or emotionally gripping as a mellotron's
plaintive wobble, especially dry and direct.

Secondly, do you think that, in this world of digital,
where we can fix, clean, cut and paste our way to
perfection, that we've lost touch with the charming
and human element that comes from the occasional chair
bump, tape noise/saturation, string buzz and what-not,
that associates us with the artist?

Now, I'm not talking about bad performances, or
legitimate recording blunders. That's just bad
recording. But it's my opinion that a certain measure
of scrappiness has added to content and energy of many
of the greatest recordings. I've always felt that the
Mellotron is exemplary of this.

Thoughts anyone?
Cheers!
-Jack


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A hyothetical question: If someone could produce a
non mechanical sample based machine and it was not
possible to tell the difference in sound between that
and a mellotron, and it was the same price or cheaper,
which would you buy?

Admittedly this is probably not possible, but if a
sample based machine was that good I would buy one. I
sometimes get the impression that mellotrons
mechanical nature and all the problems that go with it
are actually part of its charm for a lot of owners. As
a prospective owner I think it probably is for me as
well but if there was such a machine available I think
my head would rule my heart.

Mark

--- David Jacques <djacques@csulb.edu> wrote:

> There is definitely a market for this machine. For
> those who want to do some
> serious wave shaping and morphing, this may be just
> the ticket. I (like many
> on this list) am more of a purist. But I can see a
> lot of younger musicians
> going for this. Create new sounds, etc.
>
>
>
> Just listen to the samples on the website and you
> will understand Clavia's
> intended demographic.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of tronbros@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:19 PM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re:
> Mellotron/Clavia samples
>
>
>
> In a message dated 06/12/2007 20:33:51 GMT Standard
> Time, lsf5275@aol.com
> writes:
>
> it seems that the Wave is a pretty cool machine.
>
> I heard it gets hot and you could fry an egg on the
> case.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
>
> www.mellotronics.com <http://www.mellotronics.com/>
> US Sales East: Jimmy Moore
> <http://JMoore6397@aol.com/> JMoore6397@aol.com
> US Sales West: Paul Cox
> <http://pjc56@earthlink.net/> pjc56@earthlink.net
>
>

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Not really what I meant, there is something inherently
charming about the mechanical nature of the tron,
watching the tapes go up and down etc. If there was a
black box which produced the same sound and didn't
need any maintenance, without tapes and motors, would
you feel the same about it?

I wasn't meaning to say that trons were particularly
unreliable, you and the list have pretty much
convinced me that they aren't. But compared to an
electronic keyboard they do need more work.

Mark
--- tronbros@aol.com wrote:

>
>
> Mark and all,
>
> I
> sometimes get the impression that mellotrons
> mechanical nature and all the problems that go with
> it
> are actually part of its charm for a lot of owners.
>
>
>
> This is a fallacy. Just what are all these problems
> other than those
> created by not being maintained at reasonable
> intervals? M400s are reliable but
> they need looking after just like your mower,
> washing machine, car, medical
> appliance and Braun Automatic! (that's probably a
> washing machine - ed.)
>
> M
>
> Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
>
>
> _www.mellotronics.com_
> (http://www.mellotronics.com/)
> US Sales East: Jimmy Moore_ JMoore6397@aol.com_
> (http://JMoore6397@aol.com/)
> US Sales West: Paul Cox_ pjc56@earthlink.net_
> (http://pjc56@earthlink.net/)
>
>
>
>
>

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That's what I meant!

Mark

--- Rick Blechta <rick@rickblechta.com> wrote:

>
> On Dec 6, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Mark Pring wrote:
>
> > A hyothetical question: If someone could produce a
> > non mechanical sample based machine and it was not
> > possible to tell the difference in sound between
> that
> > and a mellotron, and it was the same price or
> cheaper,
> > which would you buy?
> >
> > Admittedly this is probably not possible, but if a
> > sample based machine was that good I would buy
> one. I
> > sometimes get the impression that mellotrons
> > mechanical nature and all the problems that go
> with it
> > are actually part of its charm for a lot of
> owners. As
> > a prospective owner I think it probably is for me
> as
> > well but if there was such a machine available I
> think
> > my head would rule my heart.
>
> All I can say, Mark, is that there's just SOMETHING
> about a
> mellotron. Play one for an hour with a good
> amplification set-up, and
> good echo and reverb, and you'll know what I'm
> talking about.
>
> Martin's 100% right about the biggest knock against
> them being solely
> due to poor maintenance.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> Rick

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In a message dated 12/6/2007 6:41:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rick@rickblechta. com writes:

I
sometimes get the impression that mellotrons
mechanical nature and all the problems that go with it
are actually part of its charm for a lot of owners.

Sorry, mine never give me any problems once I learned how to make them right. The pitch doesn't drift. Tapes don't waver or get stuck. All notes sound clear. No "wobblies" Nothing.

Mellotrons were designed to be reliable. Why would anyone sell a machine that would not be so? The original owners manual explained how to maintain them. Anyone who paid attention could have averted the kinds of problems that have come to define them over the years. Once the SMS 2 was fitted, the Mellotron really came into its own. I have dragged my Mellotrons to show after show, recording session after recording session with no problems.

My old mighty 1562 has recently been sold to a recording studio in New York. I bought their shitty one from them. 1562 is being recorded for the new My Morning Jacket CD tonight and through the weekend. It is stone reliable and is doing what it was built to do. It is my understanding that Dr. John (Mac Rebenac) is coming to record it as well.

Since I acquired #386 from the buyer of #1562, all the bugs have been worked out of it and it sounds great. Once the cabinet is done, it too will go out and play reliably.

Frank II

Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

I never did understand the myth that Mellotrons are unreliable. I have an attic full of old
and relatively new keyboards that have fried one way or another and yet my mellotron
always carries on. In 35 years there has never been a time when I went to play it that it
didn't work for me . Maybe I would have to get out a screwdriver once in a while or service
a stuck tape but ,seriously.... After 35 years of service the thing limped in to be restored
and is now better than new. It should get a medal of honor! I bet #390 is still around after
all the nordwaves have baked themselves. For the listener it's all about the sound, for the
player it's about what you are comfortable with, what inspires you, what gets you going. A
soul thing. I need the real Mellotron for that and wouldn't trade a dozen wedge shaped
devices for any one tron.

Hopefully the M4000 will make some high profile appearances soon.
If Julian Cope had a M4000, he would likely take it on tour.

It would be nice to see Win Butler take his M4000 on the next tour.

The Arcade Fire - Power Out - Scotland 2007-07-07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZefTEav3m7s

You may need to expand the cottage.

Clay

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@... wrote:

>
> There are five good names either recording or soon to record with their very
> own M4000. And yes, we are about to expand the premises.

Does that include the little duck pond you're always prattling on about?

Looks like SNL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ARxDXHk0rs

Martin:
Powerful stuff. I can imagine them using Russian Choir and Church Organ.

They are one of those bands that have trouble capturing the energy in
the studio. They are great songwriters and stunning live.

Clay

Perhaps Caterwauling isn't as bad as I thought

Mark
--- ceccles_ca <ecclesreinson@rogers.com> wrote:

> Looks like SNL.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ARxDXHk0rs
>
> Martin:
> Powerful stuff. I can imagine them using Russian
> Choir and Church Organ.
>
> They are one of those bands that have trouble
> capturing the energy in
> the studio. They are great songwriters and stunning
> live.
>
> Clay
>
>
>
>
>

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I thought it was a wonderful instrument but oddly
enough the action was one of the things I didn't
like. To me it seems very deep with little response,
at least compared to a piano. I really liked the
sounds and was very impressed with the cycling action.
How does the action compare to other mellotron models?

Mark
--- JMoore6397@aol.com wrote:

> Have you ever played and experienced the action on a
> m4000? I have and it
> is really smooth and responsive. I have not played
> the Clavia so I really
> can't make a comparison as of now.
>
> Jimmy Moore
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out
> AOL's list of 2007's hottest
> products.
>

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

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Not trying to be sarcastic here, but what sort of response were you
expecting? Tape on head and moving/tape off head and not moving are really
the only two states of a Mellotron.

> To me it seems very deep with little response, at least compared to a
> piano.

Post I was answering said responsive, I would agree
with you.

--- mellotronist <mellotronist@cox.net> wrote:

> Not trying to be sarcastic here, but what sort of
> response were you
> expecting? Tape on head and moving/tape off head
> and not moving are really
> the only two states of a Mellotron.
>
>
>
> > To me it seems very deep with little response, at
> least compared to a
> > piano.
>
>

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One should always try to be sarcastic on this list, I feel. Makes everything so much more expected.

That makes more sense now.

> Post I was answering said responsive, I would agree
> with you.

M & J have really outdone themselves with the m4000!! I can understand why physical plant expansion is underway!!

'The Memotron is junk'? How so?

Mike

lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/6/2007 7:06:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mickey___mouse___@hotmail.com writes:
>
> There's an eBayer in California selling both the Memotron and Nord
> Wave for the same price - $2699 with free shipping.
>
> The Nord Wave would seem to be a waaayyyy better deal. The Memotron is
> junk. Clavia has a reputation for quality and innovation. Mellotron
> sounds aside, it seems that the Wave is a pretty cool machine.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001>
> and top money wasters
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002>
> of 2007.
>

I brought up this question a while back when I test drove the M-Tron.
*If* the samples were good then I'd go for the non-mechnical version.
Having said that, I've yet to find any samples that have not been messed
about with to any great extent. I sampled 3-violins from my own
Mellotron into Kontakt without tuning, equalisation and (especially)
noise reduction, and had to admit that, with only a very little
suspension of disbelief it was hard to tell one from the other. It would
appear that it's not the quality of the samples that's always the issue,
but the way in which they are processed.

Mike

Mark Pring wrote:

>
> A hyothetical question: If someone could produce a
> non mechanical sample based machine and it was not
> possible to tell the difference in sound between that
> and a mellotron, and it was the same price or cheaper,
> which would you buy?
>
> Admittedly this is probably not possible, but if a
> sample based machine was that good I would buy one. I
> sometimes get the impression that mellotrons
> mechanical nature and all the problems that go with it
> are actually part of its charm for a lot of owners. As
> a prospective owner I think it probably is for me as
> well but if there was such a machine available I think
> my head would rule my heart.
>
> Mark
>
> --- David Jacques <djacques@csulb.edu <mailto:djacques%40csulb.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> > There is definitely a market for this machine. For
> > those who want to do some
> > serious wave shaping and morphing, this may be just
> > the ticket. I (like many
> > on this list) am more of a purist. But I can see a
> > lot of younger musicians
> > going for this. Create new sounds, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just listen to the samples on the website and you
> > will understand Clavia's
> > intended demographic.
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> > Of tronbros@aol.com <mailto:tronbros%40aol.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:19 PM
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re:
> > Mellotron/Clavia samples
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 06/12/2007 20:33:51 GMT Standard
> > Time, lsf5275@aol.com <mailto:lsf5275%40aol.com>
> > writes:
> >
> > it seems that the Wave is a pretty cool machine.
> >
> > I heard it gets hot and you could fry an egg on the
> > case.
> >
> >
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> >
> > Streetly Electronics - All Things Mellotronic
> >
> > www.mellotronics.com <http://www.mellotronics.com/
> <http://www.mellotronics.com/>>
> > US Sales East: Jimmy Moore
> > <http://JMoore6397@aol.com/ <http://JMoore6397@aol.com/>>
> JMoore6397@aol.com <mailto:JMoore6397%40aol.com>
> > US Sales West: Paul Cox
> > <http://pjc56@earthlink.net/ <http://pjc56@earthlink.net/>>
> pjc56@earthlink.net <mailto:pjc56%40earthlink.net>
> >
> >
>
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Perhaps, but that's only something that affects the player and not the
product. (And you sure do feel that same sort of 'tactile' thing from a
piano and harpsichord as well - what sort have you played?!)

Mike

Rick Blechta wrote:

>
>
> On Dec 6, 2007, at 7:18 PM, lsf5275@aol.com <mailto:lsf5275@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Martin is correct. Mellotrons are not supposed to have problems.
>> There are not supposed to be "wobblies" or stuck notes. A proper
>> Mellotron should pull the tapes through and deliver the sounds as
>> intended. The character of a Mellotron comes from its electronics,
>> not its mechanicals.
>
> But Frank, you do have to admit that there is SOMETHING about feeling
> those tapes moving under your fingers that lends something to the way
> you approach playing it. For some reason you don't feel the moving
> parts of a piano or harpsichord the same way. A tracker organ
> (i.e.-one where the keys articulate wires opening the pipes to the air
> chest) has a bit of that nice feel, but it the mellotron that wins in
> this regard. The Chamberlain would, too, if the keyboard didn't feel
> so much like a toy (mind you I've only played a couple of M1s).
>
> Rick
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson
<mike.dickson@...> wrote:

>It would appear that it's not the quality of the samples that's

always the issue, but the way in which they are processed.

>
> Mike

Should the samples be converted to digital and not processed at all,
or should they just be processed carefully?

All of the current digital mellotron sample libraries were produced
with 16 bit editors (or lower). Over-processing can hose-up 16 bit
samples quickly.

It would be good to hear mellotron samples recorded with 24 bit gear
and done with minimal processing.

Clay

Well, the Mellotron strings on 'Shutter On The Scene' on 'Domus'
(http://www.mikedickson.org.uk/domus/Shutter%20On%20The%20Scene.mp3) are
all 24 bit digital samples that I made myself using uncompressed WAV
files without noise reduction or editing of any kind. The reason for
using them as opposed to the real thing was because I knew I would have
to play around with the key that the piece was in, hence the MIDI
recording.

Mike

ceccles_ca wrote:

>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, Mike Dickson
> <mike.dickson@...> wrote:
> >It would appear that it's not the quality of the samples that's
> always the issue, but the way in which they are processed.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Should the samples be converted to digital and not processed at all,
> or should they just be processed carefully?
>
> All of the current digital mellotron sample libraries were produced
> with 16 bit editors (or lower). Over-processing can hose-up 16 bit
> samples quickly.
>
> It would be good to hear mellotron samples recorded with 24 bit gear
> and done with minimal processing.
>
> Clay
>
>

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "ceccles_ca"
<ecclesreinson@...> wrote:

>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson
> <mike.dickson@> wrote:
> >It would appear that it's not the quality of the samples that's
> always the issue, but the way in which they are processed.
> >
> > Mike
>
> Should the samples be converted to digital and not processed at

all,

> or should they just be processed carefully?
>
> All of the current digital mellotron sample libraries were produced
> with 16 bit editors (or lower). Over-processing can hose-up 16 bit
> samples quickly.
>
> It would be good to hear mellotron samples recorded with 24 bit

gear

> and done with minimal processing.
>
> Clay
>

Here are some raw, 16-bit WAV format samples from M400S #500 that I
made a few years ago with Adobe Audition. They're pretty bright
because I had the tone control turned up all the way.

http://leisureland.us/audio/mellotronsamples/mellotronsamples.htm

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@...>
wrote:

> Here are some raw, 16-bit WAV format samples from M400S #500

16 bit is fine for *recording* samples. Post production *Processing*
a 16 bit sample is problematic. There is generation loss with 16 bit
DSP. The sound suffers with each DSP operation. (expanding word
length).

Some of the sample libraries available have nasty IM distortion and
sound like shit.

If you want to dick-around with DSP, do it at 24 bit or higher and be
careful.

Clay



Clay

Tape on head and moving/tape off head and not moving are really
the only two states of a Mellotron.

How about tape on head and not moving? I guess you forgot that one and it can be achieved in so many ways.

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "David Jacques"
<djacques@...> wrote:

>
> There is absolutely no processing on my samples. They are direct

recordings from my Mellotron and sound fantastic.

You resisted the temptation. Good man.

Not fixing that which ain't broken...
johnb
1407


ceccles_ca wrote:

>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, "David Jacques"
> <djacques@...> wrote:
> >
> > There is absolutely no processing on my samples. They are direct
> recordings from my Mellotron and sound fantastic.
>
> You resisted the temptation. Good man.
>
>

make that "two desirable states."

Good one!!

I seem to have that trouble too...
johnbarrick


mellotronist wrote:

>
> Recalls a scene from Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" where
> Valentine Michael Smith announces that he has learned several ways to
> tie his shoes, but only one of the ways permits him to walk.
>
> make that "two desirable states."
>
> Good one!!
>
>

Hmmm. Fair enough. I was surprised by it being referred to as 'junk'
simply because the sound that comes out of it is not actually all that
bad - certainly better than a lot of what the M-Tron has to offer.

Mike

lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/8/2007 10:39:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mike.dickson@gmail.com writes:
>
> 'The Memotron is junk'? How so?
>
> I have been told this by musicians I respect who have played it, I
> have been told it feels kind of cheesy and has one great flaw. It will
> not retain samples. They must be reloaded every time it is turned on.
> Also, sample access seems to be limited to those provided (at
> substantial expense I've been told) by the manufacturer, or M-Tron
> samples. That to me seem pretty solid evidence.
>
> Frank II
>
>
>
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>

"Feels kind of cheesy" is an awfully subjective comment. People who are
unused to Mellotrons usually say they feel horrible the first time they play
one. Does it feel like a Mellotron? That's the question. I just don't
think that samples needing to be reloaded at powerup is a big deal, it takes
about thirty seconds to load it full. It holds three sounds at a time like
an M400 and you can crossfade between them like an M400 and they also have
dedicated pitch and tone controls. That they have not made it an open
architecture sampler is a boutique builder's way of protecting a proprietary
operating system, and I would do the same thing. They obviously don't want
it to be a generic sampler, they only want Mellotron sounds coming from it.
From their literature there are three sets of sounds available, the vintage
set which comes with the instrument at no extra cost, and also the
smoothed-out set that sounded so fake and the TD set, both of which cost
less then two hundred dollars each for what looks like fifteen or twenty
sounds or so. Plus, you can put nearly all of those sounds on one Flash
card so you can leave your CD ROMs at home. They also read and save the
M-Tron sounds which cost another hundred. So, for a little over $3000 you
can have reasonably real sounds, an operationally close similarity to an
M400, and convenience and portability. It all comes down to the Eighties
argument about sampled pianos vs. real pianos. I love my Kurzweil 250, and
I love real pianos too. Which one is more useful to gig with is a personal
decision. It's what you do with it that counts, not what you do it with.

>> I have been told this by musicians I respect who have played it, I
>> have been told it feels kind of cheesy and has one great flaw. It will
>> not retain samples. They must be reloaded every time it is turned on.
>> Also, sample access seems to be limited to those provided (at
>> substantial expense I've been told) by the manufacturer, or M-Tron
>> samples. That to me seem pretty solid evidence.
>>

With the clavinet,
I do find that tactile feedback continues during the note -
I can feel the vibration of the string transmitted through
the key to my fingertip, and I can feel the grate if I lift
the key off enough to damp the note.

DAVID

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Rick Blechta <rick@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:53 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:
>
> > Perhaps, but that's only something that affects the player and not the
> > product. (And you sure do feel that same sort of 'tactile' thing
> > from a
> > piano and harpsichord as well - what sort have you played?!)
>
> I guess I didn't express myself as clearly as I would have liked. Any
> keyboard that actually articulates something other than a microswitch
> will give a more tangible feedback to the player, but you're much more
> away of, I don't know, physical movement with a mellotron keyboard. In
> thinking about it, this certainly has something to do with having to
> be aware of how long the key has been depressed, since the end of the
> tape totally changes the feel of the key (and you certainly want to
> know about that!).
>
> So in answer to your quuestion, I do get a tactile response from a
> harpsichord, piano, clavinet, Fender Rhodes, etc, but it is very
> different from a mellotron. How about this: with the above keyboards,
> you only get that tactile feedback on the attack of the note. With a
> mellotron (or Chamberlain), it's continuous while the note is depressed.
>

Hmmm. Fair enough. I was surprised by it being referred to as 'junk'
simply because the sound that comes out of it is not actually all that
bad - certainly better than a lot of what the M-Tron has to offer.

Mike

That's true, Mike, unless you are using M-Tron samples in it. I think $2,600.00 US seems a lot for a machine that is so limited. If the Nord is in the same price range, I would certainly go with it. I also thing that M/A would pay more attention to the quality of the samples that are in it. I've often wondered why so many of the folks who sell samples seem to think that the crappier they sound, the more authentic they are.

It seems obvious to me that when they were designed, Mellotrons were intended to be reliable and at least somewhat consistent in their sound reproduction.

Frank

Saying that it doesn't have the feel of a Mellotron is a bit of a weird
criticism. Most peopl;e have no idea what a Melloton feels like as they
neither have one nor have ever had access to one. Those who have are
likely in the majority when they say that they find the feel of it
*unusual*.

Mike

lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/10/2007 7:39:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mellotronist@cox.net writes:
>
> "Feels kind of cheesy" is an awfully subjective comment.
>
>
> Exactly. Tom Brislin likened the keyboard feel to that of my 20 year
> old Yamaha PS 6100 (extremely cheesy). Since he has played both, I
> accept that opinion. And you're right, it is all subjective. Still, I
> would not spend $3000 for a Memotron and I seriously doubt that very
> many other people will either.
>
> It doesn't feel like a Mellotron, although it kinda copies the look of
> one. So what. Why not get the Nord, get all the Mellotron samples, be
> able to load and play other samples and also have the advantage of its
> tremendous flexibility?
>
> White spray paint is cheap.
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>

Did you and Martin have a drinking session afterwards? :)

-----Original Message-----
From: newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mark Wallis
Sent: vrijdag 11 juli 2008 13:18
To: newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] M4000

Hi folks,

I dropped in at Streetly's yesterday and finally got to meet an M4000.

It's a magnificent, magical instrument. It completely blew me away.
Everything makes sense, it's easy to use, has amazing sounds, is effortless
to play..

It's ... HEARTBREAKINGLY good.

I want one, obviously. So will everybody who gets to meet one. It's one of
the finest things I've ever played and certainly the best Mellotron yet. I
still can't get my head round the difference in the keyboard feel, it's just
gorgeous. And I've played some of the best Hammonds and Wurlitzers in this
country.

I notice that some folks are getting a little antsy about the delays. Try
and relax, this is so worth waiting for and I sincerely wish I was in your
shoes.

If you're waiting for an M4000, just let the guys do their thing. You can't
rush something like this and every instrument really is a labour of love.
This extends to every last component and the bespoke tools used to make
them.

It's a work of art.

More than that, it's a work of CRAFT.

I promise you that you'll be so knocked out when your instrument arrives
that the waiting will cease to matter.

You'll be grateful that you were allowed to buy one with mere money..

Love and Scones,

msw

xx

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