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Returning M400 owner questions

Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-06 by fazeka@gmail.com

Hi all,


About 8 years ago, I purchased an M400. I had it refurbished then with the help of many people (mainly Streetly and Frank S.): power supply recap, new Streetly tape frame flutes/string/cello, new capstan bearings, new rollers, new pads, new belt, etc. It already had an SMS5 MR when I got it. I was on hiatus for the last 7 years or so (career/family), and am now slowly getting back into all things Mellotron.

 

What's the state of discussion on Mellotrons today? Is there a forum? Facebook? Other? Last I knew, there really were only the Yahoo groups but activity is quite a bit down, like much of the Yahoo groups over the last 7 years or so.

 

Speaking of which, I only knew of the three: Mellotronists, newmellotrongroup and moneypit, in order of the number of posts each of these got, it seems to me. And, why the need for three discrete groups? Was there some kind of rivalry back then? Never did figure that out, seemed one group would have been fine.

 

Anywho... onto some other questions.

 

I noticed my M400 has the plastic tabs that support the lid and the hooks of the two in the front are bent down. I never did like this design. Are there metal (brass?) ones (like those that most have) that retrofit without having to drill additional holes for mounting? Or new ones to replace the original plastic? Thought that Streetly had these but again not sure if I have to drill new holes. Rather would not do that...

 

I saw something discussed somewhere about a ground loop in the original power supply box design. Any info/schems on rewiring? It has a SMS5 MR motor controller, FWIW.

 

I really got into carefully and thoughtfully tweaking the roller and pad adjustments yesterday (bought these new from Streetly back in 2010 or so), big improvement to what it was before. But... after the procedure, I'm finding there's more inconsistency in notes (flute, especially) than I would have imagined (and than I would like...), more in the pitch differences between some of the notes, and even some notes sounding somewhat "ambiguous" wrt pitch (cello, IIRC). Also more “wavering around” a note on some of them (flutes again), again more than I would have imagined (liked?)... is this the way the MkII (M400) flutes are really supposed to sound? Or are my adjustments still not bang on and I still have some wavering going on?

 

I saw discussion somewhere regarding "tuned" tapes. I presume this is taking the original masters (which I presume have been digitized by now for ready copying?) and "auto tuning" them? If so and if these are available, did anyone try these? And if they did, was some of the "mojo" lost? I'm all for inconsistencies, but I feel I am getting those anyway from the mechanical/analog nature of the instrument itself and was thinking that the tapes themselves should be minimized of those inconsistencies... But, maybe the overall charm would then be lost if the original sounds were dicked with? Opinions welcomed!

 

Finally, would be interested in buying a tape case for my spare tape frame. Also a Protecta muff cover in good condition.

 

Thanks,

Chris

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-08 by Ben Stuyts

Hi Chris,

First, welcome back!

Unfortunately the group is awfully quiet lately. And Yahoo having major server problems with their Groups system isn’t helping either, so I’m not sure everybody receives your messages. There are some Facebook groups also, but the problem is that it’s worthless as an archive. (Not that Yahoo Groups is much better.)

As far as I can remember, back in 2007 there was some unfortunate fallout between members on the mellotronists group and then this group was created. (It was three beers ago so I’ve forgotten the details, I believe it was about censoring posts/people.) Traffic on that list decimated. And then around 2012 traffic started falling on this list too. I see that on more lists. Also seems like Yahoo Groups is not being maintained or actively promoted by Yahoo. I took over from Clay in 2014 as moderator.

Can’t help you with your other questions though, hope someone else can!

Kind regards,
Ben (Moderator)

On 8 May 2018, at 07:02, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



<crickets>

No one? 


RE: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-08 by Bart Nicolai

 

Hi Chris,

 

I recently joined the new mellotron group when I bought and restored an M400 that was in a very poor state. I had a similar problem during the restoration process and asked Martin Smith from Streetly Electronics for advise. Here is his answer:

 

Probably poor brush contact on the armature. Take the red plastic clips off and take out the carbon brushes but remember which way round they are as they are bedded in. Clean the copper on the armature and fine wet and dry paper and then clean everything with methylated spirits(purple alcohol). Replace the brushes in exactly the same location and position as they were in.

I followed his advise, removed the dust from the carbon brushes and used steel wool to clean the copper on the armature, and, sure enough, the pops and clicks were gone.

 

You may like to try this as well.

 

Good luck,

Bart

 

 

 

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: dinsdag 8 mei 2018 16:45
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

First, welcome back!

 

Unfortunately the group is awfully quiet lately. And Yahoo having major server problems with their Groups system isn’t helping either, so I’m not sure everybody receives your messages. There are some Facebook groups also, but the problem is that it’s worthless as an archive. (Not that Yahoo Groups is much better.)

 

As far as I can remember, back in 2007 there was some unfortunate fallout between members on the mellotronists group and then this group was created. (It was three beers ago so I’ve forgotten the details, I believe it was about censoring posts/people.) Traffic on that list decimated. And then around 2012 traffic started falling on this list too. I see that on more lists. Also seems like Yahoo Groups is not being maintained or actively promoted by Yahoo. I took over from Clay in 2014 as moderator.

 

Can’t help you with your other questions though, hope someone else can!

 

Kind regards,

Ben (Moderator)



On 8 May 2018, at 07:02, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 



<crickets>

 

No one? 

 

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-08 by John Barrick

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bart Nicolai bart.nicolai@kuleuven.be [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I recently joined the new mellotron group when I bought and restored an M400 that was in a very poor state. I had a similar problem during the restoration process and asked Martin Smith from Streetly Electronics for advise. Here is his answer:

 

Probably poor brush contact on the armature. Take the red plastic clips off and take out the carbon brushes but remember which way round they are as they are bedded in. Clean the copper on the armature and fine wet and dry paper and then clean everything with methylated spirits(purple alcohol). Replace the brushes in exactly the same location and position as they were in.

I followed his advise, removed the dust from the carbon brushes and used steel wool to clean the copper on the armature, and, sure enough, the pops and clicks were gone.

 

You may like to try this as well.

 

Good luck,

Bart

 

 

 

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com>
Sent: dinsdag 8 mei 2018 16:45
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

First, welcome back!

 

Unfortunately the group is awfully quiet lately. And Yahoo having major server problems with their Groups system isn’t helping either, so I’m not sure everybody receives your messages. There are some Facebook groups also, but the problem is that it’s worthless as an archive. (Not that Yahoo Groups is much better.)

 

As far as I can remember, back in 2007 there was some unfortunate fallout between members on the mellotronists group and then this group was created. (It was three beers ago so I’ve forgotten the details, I believe it was about censoring posts/people.) Traffic on that list decimated. And then around 2012 traffic started falling on this list too. I see that on more lists. Also seems like Yahoo Groups is not being maintained or actively promoted by Yahoo. I took over from Clay in 2014 as moderator.

 

Can’t help you with your other questions though, hope someone else can!

 

Kind regards,

Ben (Moderator)



On 8 May 2018, at 07:02, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 



<crickets>

 

No one? 

 




--
john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-09 by Frank Stickle

Gino, 

Sound Sales used plastic lid keepers on many of their M400s.

Sent from my iPad

On May 8, 2018, at 2:53 PM, John Barrick barrickjohn262@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me.. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bart Nicolai bart.nicolai@kuleuven.be [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I recently joined the new mellotron group when I bought and restored an M400 that was in a very poor state. I had a similar problem during the restoration process and asked Martin Smith from Streetly Electronics for advise. Here is his answer:

 

Probably poor brush contact on the armature. Take the red plastic clips off and take out the carbon brushes but remember which way round they are as they are bedded in. Clean the copper on the armature and fine wet and dry paper and then clean everything with methylated spirits(purple alcohol). Replace the brushes in exactly the same location and position as they were in.

I followed his advise, removed the dust from the carbon brushes and used steel wool to clean the copper on the armature, and, sure enough, the pops and clicks were gone.

 

You may like to try this as well.

 

Good luck,

Bart

 

 

 

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups..com>
Sent: dinsdag 8 mei 2018 16:45
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

First, welcome back!

 

Unfortunately the group is awfully quiet lately. And Yahoo having major server problems with their Groups system isn’t helping either, so I’m not sure everybody receives your messages. There are some Facebook groups also, but the problem is that it’s worthless as an archive. (Not that Yahoo Groups is much better.)

 

As far as I can remember, back in 2007 there was some unfortunate fallout between members on the mellotronists group and then this group was created. (It was three beers ago so I’ve forgotten the details, I believe it was about censoring posts/people.) Traffic on that list decimated. And then around 2012 traffic started falling on this list too. I see that on more lists. Also seems like Yahoo Groups is not being maintained or actively promoted by Yahoo. I took over from Clay in 2014 as moderator.

 

Can’t help you with your other questions though, hope someone else can!

 

Kind regards,

Ben (Moderator)



On 8 May 2018, at 07:02, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 



<crickets>

 

No one? 

 




--
john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-09 by John Barrick

Frank - that was me, not Gino.

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:09 PM, Frank Stickle lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Gino, 


Sound Sales used plastic lid keepers on many of their M400s.

Sent from my iPad

On May 8, 2018, at 2:53 PM, John Barrick barrickjohn262@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me.. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Bart Nicolai bart.nicolai@kuleuven.be [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I recently joined the new mellotron group when I bought and restored an M400 that was in a very poor state. I had a similar problem during the restoration process and asked Martin Smith from Streetly Electronics for advise. Here is his answer:

 

Probably poor brush contact on the armature. Take the red plastic clips off and take out the carbon brushes but remember which way round they are as they are bedded in. Clean the copper on the armature and fine wet and dry paper and then clean everything with methylated spirits(purple alcohol). Replace the brushes in exactly the same location and position as they were in.

I followed his advise, removed the dust from the carbon brushes and used steel wool to clean the copper on the armature, and, sure enough, the pops and clicks were gone.

 

You may like to try this as well.

 

Good luck,

Bart

 

 

 

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups ...com>
Sent: dinsdag 8 mei 2018 16:45
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

First, welcome back!

 

Unfortunately the group is awfully quiet lately. And Yahoo having major server problems with their Groups system isn’t helping either, so I’m not sure everybody receives your messages. There are some Facebook groups also, but the problem is that it’s worthless as an archive. (Not that Yahoo Groups is much better.)

 

As far as I can remember, back in 2007 there was some unfortunate fallout between members on the mellotronists group and then this group was created. (It was three beers ago so I’ve forgotten the details, I believe it was about censoring posts/people.) Traffic on that list decimated. And then around 2012 traffic started falling on this list too. I see that on more lists. Also seems like Yahoo Groups is not being maintained or actively promoted by Yahoo. I took over from Clay in 2014 as moderator.

 

Can’t help you with your other questions though, hope someone else can!

 

Kind regards,

Ben (Moderator)



On 8 May 2018, at 07:02, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups .com> wrote:

 



<crickets>

 

No one? 

 




--
john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*




--
john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-10 by fazeka@gmail.com

John,

Asking for clarity is not being an asshole, don't consider yourself as such.

To be clear, the plastic "tabs" are not "holding down" the lid. They are in the same locations as the brass-looking friction catches (let's use your term "catches", that's a good term).

Here's a pic:

https://i.imgur.com/bJggsJ3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ii7Aj1J.jpg

I'm pretty sure these are stock from the factory. Not on the majority of them but at least on a few others I've seen that have them. Problem is, they suck as they bend and the two of mine nearest the front have their "hooks" bent down so the hook doesn't match the lid's corresponding "cup".

On the popping, Bart gave some tips that I will try (thanks Bart!). Not wanting to come off as an asshole either, but my question was pretty clear for Bart... =)

On the power supply, I have the schematics already, and my request and hope was to get some first-hand details from someone who tackled the ground loop issue, like this gal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByD8gH7kYxs

Thanks for bearing with me John (and everyone else)!

Cheers,
Chris


---In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, <barrickjohn262@...> wrote :

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-10 by fazeka@gmail.com

Hi Bart,

Thanks for the reply/advice. It sounds like something to try! I'll report back what I find!

Thanks again!
Chris


---In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, <bart.nicolai@...> wrote :

 

Hi Chris,

 

I recently joined the new mellotron group when I bought and restored an M400 that was in a very poor state. I had a similar problem during the restoration process and asked Martin Smith from Streetly Electronics for advise. Here is his answer:

 

Probably poor brush contact on the armature. Take the red plastic clips off and take out the carbon brushes but remember which way round they are as they are bedded in. Clean the copper on the armature and fine wet and dry paper and then clean everything with methylated spirits(purple alcohol). Replace the brushes in exactly the same location and position as they were in.

I followed his advise, removed the dust from the carbon brushes and used steel wool to clean the copper on the armature, and, sure enough, the pops and clicks were gone.

 

You may like to try this as well.

 

Good luck,

Bart

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-11 by Ben Stuyts

Hi Chris,

Those plastic catches don’t look very durable at all, indeed.

My company often uses hardware from a company called Essentra. Have a look here: http://www.essentracomponents.com/en-us/access-hardware/catches-catch-plates They will send free samples from their website (if you’re a company, at least).

Kind regards,
Ben


On 10 May 2018, at 20:23, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



John,

Asking for clarity is not being an asshole, don't consider yourself as such.

To be clear, the plastic "tabs" are not "holding down" the lid. They are in the same locations as the brass-looking friction catches (let's use your term "catches", that's a good term).

Here's a pic:

https://i.imgur.com/bJggsJ3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ii7Aj1J.jpg

I'm pretty sure these are stock from the factory. Not on the majority of them but at least on a few others I've seen that have them. Problem is, they suck as they bend and the two of mine nearest the front have their "hooks" bent down so the hook doesn't match the lid's corresponding "cup".

On the popping, Bart gave some tips that I will try (thanks Bart!). Not wanting to come off as an asshole either, but my question was pretty clear for Bart... =)

On the power supply, I have the schematics already, and my request and hope was to get some first-hand details from someone who tackled the ground loop issue, like this gal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByD8gH7kYxs

Thanks for bearing with me John (and everyone else)!

Cheers,
Chris


---In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, <barrickjohn262@...> wrote :

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-11 by Ben Stuyts

And here’s another supplier: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/enclosures-storage-material-handling/cabinet-hardware/ball-catches/?searchTerm=ball%20catch

On 11 May 2018, at 11:45, Ben Stuyts <yahoo@stuyts.nl> wrote:

Hi Chris,

Those plastic catches don’t look very durable at all, indeed.

My company often uses hardware from a company called Essentra. Have a look here: http://www.essentracomponents.com/en-us/access-hardware/catches-catch-plates They will send free samples from their website (if you’re a company, at least).

Kind regards,
Ben


On 10 May 2018, at 20:23, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



John,

Asking for clarity is not being an asshole, don't consider yourself as such.

To be clear, the plastic "tabs" are not "holding down" the lid. They are in the same locations as the brass-looking friction catches (let's use your term "catches", that's a good term).

Here's a pic:

https://i.imgur.com/bJggsJ3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ii7Aj1J.jpg

I'm pretty sure these are stock from the factory. Not on the majority of them but at least on a few others I've seen that have them. Problem is, they suck as they bend and the two of mine nearest the front have their "hooks" bent down so the hook doesn't match the lid's corresponding "cup".

On the popping, Bart gave some tips that I will try (thanks Bart!). Not wanting to come off as an asshole either, but my question was pretty clear for Bart... =)

On the power supply, I have the schematics already, and my request and hope was to get some first-hand details from someone who tackled the ground loop issue, like this gal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByD8gH7kYxs

Thanks for bearing with me John (and everyone else)!

Cheers,
Chris


---In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, <barrickjohn262@...> wrote :

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb




Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-11 by gino wong

I have a Sound Sales M400 and the lid keepers on mine are still holding up.

That video from Alison is very good and her electronic mods are up to date knowledge something that wasn't really practical back in the day. If it is purely electronic this woman is spot on, she starts with a scope, a very basic physics  approach she behaves like a German trained engineer. 

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 5:50 AM, Ben Stuyts yahoo@stuyts.nl [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

And here’s another supplier: https://uk.rs- online.com/web/c/enclosures- storage-material-handling/ cabinet-hardware/ball-catches/ ?searchTerm=ball%20catch


On 11 May 2018, at 11:45, Ben Stuyts <yahoo@stuyts.nl> wrote:

Hi Chris,

Those plastic catches don’t look very durable at all, indeed.

My company often uses hardware from a company called Essentra. Have a look here: http://www. essentracomponents.com/en-us/ access-hardware/catches-catch- plates They will send free samples from their website (if you’re a company, at least).

Kind regards,
Ben


On 10 May 2018, at 20:23, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com> wrote:



John,

Asking for clarity is not being an asshole, don't consider yourself as such.

To be clear, the plastic "tabs" are not "holding down" the lid. They are in the same locations as the brass-looking friction catches (let's use your term "catches", that's a good term).

Here's a pic:



I'm pretty sure these are stock from the factory. Not on the majority of them but at least on a few others I've seen that have them. Problem is, they suck as they bend and the two of mine nearest the front have their "hooks" bent down so the hook doesn't match the lid's corresponding "cup".

On the popping, Bart gave some tips that I will try (thanks Bart!). Not wanting to come off as an asshole either, but my question was pretty clear for Bart... =)

On the power supply, I have the schematics already, and my request and hope was to get some first-hand details from someone who tackled the ground loop issue, like this gal:


Thanks for bearing with me John (and everyone else)!

Cheers,
Chris


---In newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups.com, <barrickjohn262@...> wrote :

Chris, I don't want to come off as an asshole, but someone's got to.  It would really help if you were SUPER specific in your questions and provided photos.  Don't assume that your Tron is like everyone else's. It would also help if you identify your Tron by serial # as they did change over the years - mine is #1407.

I've never heard of (nor seen) some kind of plastic tab to hold down the lid on a Tron.  It sounds like you're describing some sort of velcro arrangement.  Are you?  Every Tron I've ever seen has a two part brass looking friction catch (one part on the lid, and one part on top of the frame that mesh together)  There are a total of five of these catches on the lid - three on the back edge of the lid, and one each on the right and left hand sides of the lid.  Some people like to place a full on piano bench hinge across the back at the top to hold the lid on (the kind that has the prop to the top up in an open position).

I've never had the popping issue you describe, so I can't help you there.  I had my power supply worked on by Jerry Korb when I first got it, and I'm pretty sure he fixed the ground loop issue for me. There are power supply schematics out there and I'm sure some could be dug up here.

Please help us by asking clearer questions.

jb







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Sound Sales (was Re: Returning M400 owner questions)

2018-05-12 by fazeka@gmail.com

Hi Gino,

Sounds Sales... I wonder... how would one tell if they have a Sound Sales 'tron? Identifiable via serial number? Was there a certain date range/period for Sound Sales 'trons, perhaps being able to be narrowed down via referencing the date codes on electrical components?

Cheers,
Chris

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Sound Sales (was Re: Returning M400 owner questions)

2018-05-12 by Chris Dale

Sound Sales Trons were made between 1976 - 1980 and have a PML pre-amp card in them which combines the pre-amp cards for the volume and tone control.

They also use a different set of masters and have corrected some of the inconsistencies between notes, but in doing that the character of sounds are also changed.

For example, you can't play King Crimson's Trio and have it sound exactly like the original song because they corrected that loud high F, by reducing it.

Some of the sounds are more brash, like the strings. I believe it might have been done to compete with the buzzy brash string synthesizers from Elka and ARP at the time. 

This was also done to some of the Mellotronics masters as well. 

This partly accounts for the differences in Tron sounds from band to band depending on where they got their machines.

Some people who bought Sound Sales Trons prefer these changes but I'm not sure the tape formulation they used has the same physical quality. There might be a bit less grab to the tape, and that's vital for the tape to function properly. 

If you want to hear Sound Sales Trons listen to American music made after 1976. Heart had a Sound Sales Tron for example.

There's others but I don't have a list handy. Hope this helps.

 

  

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 8:48 PM, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Gino,

Sounds Sales... I wonder... how would one tell if they have a Sound Sales 'tron? Identifiable via serial number? Was there a certain date range/period for Sound Sales 'trons, perhaps being able to be narrowed down via referencing the date codes on electrical components?

Cheers,
Chris


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-25 by fazeka@gmail.com

Thanks Ben for the links.

I would like to order some ball catches/strikes for my M400. One problem, though: I see there are varying lengths of the catches (and strikes), at least among the links you have shared. I would want something that is as close as possible to what the majority of M400s have. Anyone know the lengths/dimensions of their lid catches and the corresponding strikes? Or someone that can measure them?

Cheers,
Chris

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Returning M400 owner questions

2018-05-25 by Ben Stuyts

Hi Chris,

See attached photo’s. There are 5 catches. The ones on the lid have a footprint of about 25 * 7 mm and a height of 10 mm. The ones inside the Tron have a footprint of 43 x 7.5 mm and are also 10 mm high.

I’m not 100% sure that these are the original ones, so maybe somebody else can do a quick check and verify. But I don’t see any markings that anything was different in the past.

Kind regards,
Ben


On 25 May 2018, at 10:55, fazeka@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Ben for the links.

I would like to order some ball catches/strikes for my M400. One problem, though: I see there are varying lengths of the catches (and strikes), at least among the links you have shared. I would want something that is as close as possible to what the majority of M400s have. Anyone know the lengths/dimensions of their lid catches and the corresponding strikes? Or someone that can measure them?

Cheers,
Chris