The Mellotron Group group photo

Yahoo Groups archive

The Mellotron Group

Index last updated: 2026-03-31 23:34 UTC

Thread

Singer

Singer

2008-03-16 by steve_tebble

Mike Dickson recently said:

"I still think that my abiding fondness for King Crimson lies in the
fact that their best work was always done when the singer simply shut
up and let the rest of the band get on with it."

Surely that applies to any prog rock band, indeed any band, indeed any
musical act of any kind since primitive man first invented the art form
we call 'music.'

Discuss.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Singer

2008-03-16 by Mike Dickson

I would probably agree re rock in general and prog rock in particular on the basis that (1) most people cannot sing, especially those who think they can, and (2) singers generally need lyrics and lyrics generally mean some of the worst cod poetry you'll ever encounter this side of William McGonagall. The number of rock musicians who can pen even reasonable lyrics is limited to roughly the number of digits one may expect to encounter on the furthest end of your rightmost upper limb, and most of those only enjoy such a reputation on the basis of one or two things they have done, rather that on their entire canon. One might be tempted to argue against this by saying that even great poets had their off days, but I think that statistically the evidence leans towards the side of rock music lyrics having been written by what appears to be the early product of the celebrated infinite number of monkeys with a similar quantity of typrewriters.

However, I'd completely disagree about 'any musical act of any kind' as early choral music is about as good as music gets. That the libretto is voiced in Latin helps this all along somewhat as the meaning of what they are singing about is not clear. For all I know, the gallous Mr Byrd might be causing his choirsters to sing something like

Yeah God, isn't he great?
Yeah.
No but seriously. He is.
Look at what he did.
Probably.
Yeah.
Fucken great dood.

but we are all left in the dark due to the fact that on the page at least it reads like the Rosetta Stone.

Mike



steve_tebble wrote:

Mike Dickson recently said:

"I still think that my abiding fondness for King Crimson lies in the
fact that their best work was always done when the singer simply shut
up and let the rest of the band get on with it."

Surely that applies to any prog rock band, indeed any band, indeed any
musical act of any kind since primitive man first invented the art form
we call 'music.'

Discuss.



 

Re: Singer

2008-03-16 by Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "steve_tebble" <steve@...>
wrote:
>
> Mike Dickson recently said:
>
> "I still think that my abiding fondness for King Crimson lies in
the
> fact that their best work was always done when the singer simply
shut
> up and let the rest of the band get on with it."
>
> Surely that applies to any prog rock band, indeed any band, indeed
any
> musical act of any kind since primitive man first invented the art
form
> we call 'music.'
>
> Discuss.
>

We've had this discussion before. The pretty boy up there on the
stage singing those corny lyrics and grabbing his cojones gets all
the credit (and the girls) while the "backup" musicians have to play
down to him. But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
lyrics (IMO, that is).

Now what would an acapella group sound like without the singing?

"Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" -- FZ

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-16 by james.parthun@att.net

I dunno- when I was on the road playing prog to disco audiences in the early ‘80’s the bass player got all the girls.

Regards,

partune

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bernie
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:06 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

--- In newmellotrongroup@ yahoogroups. com, "steve_tebble" <steve@...>
wrote:

>
> Mike Dickson recently said:
>
> "I still think that my abiding fondness for King Crimson lies in
the
> fact that their best work was always done when the singer simply
shut
> up and let the rest of the band get on with it."
>
> Surely that applies to any prog rock band, indeed any band, indeed
any
> musical act of any kind since primitive man first invented the art
form
> we call 'music.'
>
> Discuss.
>

We've had this discussion before. The pretty boy up there on the
stage singing those corny lyrics and grabbing his cojones gets all
the credit (and the girls) while the "backup" musicians have to play
down to him. But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
lyrics (IMO, that is).

Now what would an acapella group sound like without the singing?

"Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" -- FZ

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-16 by lsf5275@aol.com

Gee, I always thought that these were some pretty good rock lyrics:
Long as I remember The rain been comin' down.
Clouds of myst'ry pourin' Confusion on the ground.
Good men through the ages, Tryin' to find the sun;
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.
I went down Virginia, Seekin' shelter from the storm.
Caught up in the fable, I watched the tower grow.
Five year plans and new deals, Wrapped in golden chains.
And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.

Heard the singers playin', How we cheered for more.
The crowd had rushed together, Tryin' to keep warm.
Still the rain kept pourin', Fallin' on my ears.
And I wonder, Still I wonder Who'll stop the rain.
These too:

Some folks are born
made to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
they point the cannon right at you.

It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no senator's son.
It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no fortunate one.

Some folks are born
silver spoon in hand,
Lord don't they help themselves.
But when the tax man comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale.

It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no fortunate one.

Some folks inherit
star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war.
And when you ask them,
"How much should we give?"
They only answer "More! More! More!"

It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no military son.
It ain't me,
it ain't me.
I ain't no fortunate one.

It ain't me,
And I like these too:
Here in northeast Ohio, back in eighteen-o-three
James and Dean Heaton found the ore that was linin' yellow creek
They built a blast furnace here along the shore
And they made the cannonballs that helped the Union win the war

Here in Youngstown, here in Youngstown
My sweet Jenny I’m sinkin' down, here darlin' in Youngstown

Well my daddy worked the furnaces, kept them hotter than hell
I come home from Nam worked my way to scarfer, a job that’d suit the devil as well
Taconite coke and limestone fed my children and made my pay
Them smokestacks reached like the arms of god into a beautiful sky of soot and clay

Here in Youngstown, here in Youngstown
My sweet Jenny I’m sinkin' down, here darlin' in Youngstown

Well my daddy come home from Ohio works when he came home from World War 2
Now the yard’s just scrap and scrubble
He said: "Them big boys did what Hitler couldn’t do"
These mills they built the tanks and bombs that won these country’s wars
We sent our sons to Korea and Vietnam now we’re wonderin' what they were dyin’ for

Here in Youngstown, here in Youngstown
My sweet Jenny I’m sinkin' down, here darlin' in Youngstown

From the Monongahela valley to the Mesabi iron range
To the coal mines of Appalachia the story’s always the same
Seven hundred tons of metal a day now sir you tell me the world’s changed
Once I made you rich enough rich enough to forget my name

And Youngstown, and Youngstown
My sweet Jenny I’m sinkin' down, here darlin' in Youngstown

When I die I don’t want no part of heaven, I would not do heaven’s work well
I pray the devil comes and takes me to stand in the fiery furnaces of hell
Protest songs, one and all. Two are nearly forty years old, the last, not so old.
Rock music has always been the voice of generations.




Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-17 by Mike Dickson

"But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
lyrics (IMO, that is)."

Do you *really* want to go down this particular route?


Bernie wrote:

> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, "steve_tebble" <steve@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mike Dickson recently said:
> >
> > "I still think that my abiding fondness for King Crimson lies in
> the
> > fact that their best work was always done when the singer simply
> shut
> > up and let the rest of the band get on with it."
> >
> > Surely that applies to any prog rock band, indeed any band, indeed
> any
> > musical act of any kind since primitive man first invented the art
> form
> > we call 'music.'
> >
> > Discuss.
> >
>
> We've had this discussion before. The pretty boy up there on the
> stage singing those corny lyrics and grabbing his cojones gets all
> the credit (and the girls) while the "backup" musicians have to play
> down to him. But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
> lyrics (IMO, that is).
>
> Now what would an acapella group sound like without the singing?
>
> "Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar" -- FZ
>
>

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

Re: Singer

2008-03-17 by ceccles_ca

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson
<mike.dickson@...> wrote:

> Do you *really* want to go down this particular route?

Some people deserve credit for having the balls to write and sing
nonsense lyrics...

A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace, And
rearrange your liver to the solid mental grace

(Ya gotta love that shit!)

OR

ENGLISH RIBS OF BEEF CUT DOWN TO 47p LB
PEEK FREANS FAMILY ASSORTED FROM 17 1/2 to 12
FAIRY LIQUID GIANT - SLASHED FROM 20p TO 17 1/2
TABLE JELLYS AT 4p EACH
ANCHOR BUTTER DOWN TO 11p FOR A 1/2
BIRDS EYE DAIRY CREAM SPONGE ON OFFER THIS WEEK.

It's Scrambled Eggs.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-17 by Rick Blechta


On Mar 17, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:

"But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
lyrics (IMO, that is)."

Do you *really* want to go down this particular route?

When looked at globally in music, almost all lyrics are weak, if not downright bad. Check out some very famous operas for trite, stupid and silly lyrics. Fortunately, there are always exceptions in all kinds of music.

Rick

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-17 by Mike Dickson

You're not exactly kidding.

Opera has some of the the most wildly overblown librettii imaginable, not to mention some of the most absurd and convoluted plots known to humanity and in most cases no real sense of narrative, pacing, character development or even the least shred of plausibility or poetry. However, it is largely saved by the music, which is really the point being made.

Maybe that sums the whole issue up; that music addresses some inner part of us that longs for tension, resolution, cadence, crescendo and surprise, whereas you'll alway be aware that the person singing on the stage is just another fat guy in tights warbling without end about where the love of his life has fucked off to. Or some other equally absurd prat hopping about a stage, dressed as a flower, dribbling on about Musical Boxes.

Mike


Rick Blechta wrote:


On Mar 17, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Mike Dickson wrote:

"But at least prog lyrics generally aren't as bad as pop
lyrics (IMO, that is)."

Do you *really* want to go down this particular route?

When looked at globally in music, almost all lyrics are weak, if not downright bad. Check out some very famous operas for trite, stupid and silly lyrics. Fortunately, there are always exceptions in all kinds of music.

Rick

-- 
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Singer

2008-03-18 by john barrick

Come on, Mike - that's why most of it was written in Italian (or
French) - so I could listen along to someone like Maria Callas and not
think "what a fucking load of shit".
johnb


Mike Dickson wrote:
>
> You're not exactly kidding.
>
> Opera has some of the the most /wildly/ overblown librettii
> imaginable, not to mention some of the most absurd and convoluted
> plots known to humanity and in most cases no real sense of narrative,
> pacing, character development or even the least shred of plausibility
> or poetry. However, it is largely saved by the music, which is really
> the point being made.
>
> Maybe that sums the whole issue up; that music addresses some inner
> part of us that longs for tension, resolution, cadence, crescendo and
> surprise, whereas you'll alway be aware that the person singing on the
> stage is just another fat guy in tights warbling without end about
> where the love of his life has fucked off to. Or some other equally
> absurd prat hopping about a stage, dressed as a flower, dribbling on
> about Musical Boxes.
>
> Mike
>
>