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Mellotron on TV!

Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-29 by vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com

Hi everyone,
I was watching Jimmy Kimmel on Aug. 14th, which closed with a band called "Self," from Tennessee. Typical 2 guitars, bass & drums, & a keyboard player on a riser, facing sideways toward the drummer.  I saw him playing some small synth keyboard on a stand that was mostly hidden in the 1st shot I noticed of him, til they showed him from the front of the stage. That white "stand" was an M-400 in all it's glory, & I heard both flutes & strings floating subtly, but nicely from it at different times.

Hardly K.C. or Yes, but it's SO great to see a Mellotron in live performance.  They still rock & RULE!  Cheers!


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-29 by Bill Rudloff

Here they are!
Bill Rudloff

-----Original Message-----
From: vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 11:26 am
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Hi everyone,
I was watching Jimmy Kimmel on Aug. 14th, which closed with a band called "Self," from Tennessee. Typical 2 guitars, bass & drums, & a keyboard player on a riser, facing sideways toward the drummer.  I saw him playing some small synth keyboard on a stand that was mostly hidden in the 1st shot I noticed of him, til they showed him from the front of the stage. That white "stand" was an M-400 in all it's glory, & I heard both flutes & strings floating subtly, but nicely from it at different times.

Hardly K.C. or Yes, but it's SO great to see a Mellotron in live performance.  They still rock & RULE!  Cheers!

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-29 by Hammonddave

There was a Mellotron on the Grammy awards a couple of years ago...

David Jacques

On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:25 PM, "vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi everyone,
I was watching Jimmy Kimmel on Aug. 14th, which closed with a band called "Self," from Tennessee. Typical 2 guitars, bass & drums, & a keyboard player on a riser, facing sideways toward the drummer.  I saw him playing some small synth keyboard on a stand that was mostly hidden in the 1st shot I noticed of him, til they showed him from the front of the stage. That white "stand" was an M-400 in all it's glory, & I heard both flutes & strings floating subtly, but nicely from it at different times.

Hardly K.C. or Yes, but it's SO great to see a Mellotron in live performance.  They still rock & RULE!  Cheers!


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-29 by zappaboggs

:)

From: "Hammonddave hammonddave2004@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
There was a Mellotron on the Grammy awards a couple of years ago...

David Jacques

On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:25 PM, "vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Hi everyone,
I was watching Jimmy Kimmel on Aug. 14th, which closed with a band called "Self," from Tennessee. Typical 2 guitars, bass & drums, & a keyboard player on a riser, facing sideways toward the drummer.  I saw him playing some small synth keyboard on a stand that was mostly hidden in the 1st shot I noticed of him, til they showed him from the front of the stage. That white "stand" was an M-400 in all it's glory, & I heard both flutes & strings floating subtly, but nicely from it at different times.

Hardly K.C. or Yes, but it's SO great to see a Mellotron in live performance.  They still rock & RULE!  Cheers!



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-29 by Fritz Doddy

Matt Mahafee, Self, is a wonderful talent, and I own most of his work. 

Quirkier and more fun than Yes, KC or the oh so serious Prog bands of today or yesterday, his music is just as sophisticated. Check out "Subliminal  Plastic Motives"

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Aug 29, 2014, at 12:32 PM, "Bill Rudloff doctorwho8@aol.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Here they are!

Bill Rudloff

-----Original Message-----
From: vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 29, 2014 11:26 am
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Hi everyone,
I was watching Jimmy Kimmel on Aug. 14th, which closed with a band called "Self," from Tennessee. Typical 2 guitars, bass & drums, & a keyboard player on a riser, facing sideways toward the drummer.  I saw him playing some small synth keyboard on a stand that was mostly hidden in the 1st shot I noticed of him, til they showed him from the front of the stage. That white "stand" was an M-400 in all it's glory, & I heard both flutes & strings floating subtly, but nicely from it at different times.

Hardly K.C. or Yes, but it's SO great to see a Mellotron in live performance.  They still rock & RULE!  Cheers!

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Chris Dale

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

I could be wrong about the hinge. I still think it's a fake.
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 4:00:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by tron400@yahoo.com

The Tron is raised up on blocks and there are no cutouts on the back to lift off the lid, so it can't be an M400 unless it was re-cabineted, if there's such a word.

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by tronbros@aol.com

Bernie
 
If re-cabineted doesn't already exist it jolly well should.
 
Pip pip
 
mellotronics.com

1963 - 2013 The 50th anniversary of the mellotron
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:38
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
The Tron is raised up on blocks and there are no cutouts on the back to lift off the lid, so it can't be an M400 unless it was re-cabineted, if there's such a word.

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Chris Dale

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Chris Dale

Sorry Bernie!  I know there's a lot of good Chinese beer, and other stuff as well.


Okay everyone - think of the absolute worst beer you ever had - you know - beneath camel piss quality - and then insert that into the proverbial Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle, for the aforementioned example.

With beer standards deep in the toilet, the standards for what makes a Mellotron a Mellotron won't be any better, and vice-versa.




On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:56 AM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hey Chris, don't knock Tsing Tao beer! (really should be spelled Qing Dao)

Bernie


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by tron400@yahoo.com

Actually, most of the Chinese beer is really light (watery?), but the Germans taught the people in Qingdao how to make beer, so theirs is the best.

Worst beer? Probably American Budweiser, although I wouldn't call it camel piss. Horse piss comes to mind, though.

Bernie

Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Berington Van Campen

Yes there was!  It was during a great, multi-band tribute to the Beach Boys, if I remember right.  (I could check... I recorded it, but admittedly, I probably won't.  (-: )  Never really heard it that I noticed, but TV shows are always edited... who knows what was played that didn't get aired?  Again, though, great to see it up there.
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Berington Van Campen

Yes, it does look like a Sub-Fatty.  Unique, "swept" case they have.
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by Berington Van Campen

Hi everyone,

I just watched the Kimmel videos again.  Bill, thanks for posting the YouTube links.  The only song broadcast last week was the 2nd, "Runaway."  There WAS a weird b/g vocal thing just AFTER the first song, after they'd stopped playing, I thought odd, too.  I have been to (only one) a Kimmel taping, & I can assure you the band was quite "live."  Don't know what it's like on the smaller, inside stage, but Sir Paul was as live as it gets, out on Hollywood Blvd.  If fact, we showed up way before they let ticket-holders in... stood in a nearby crosswalk, & watched their whole 4PM sound check, as well.  10 bonus songs in full, including some they didn't play later!  While only 1 or 2 songs made it to air during the live show, McCartney & Co. played for a solid 1-1/2 hours!  (And ROCKED!!)  Not bad for FREE!  

I've always assumed other bands all play live, as well, but who knows?  There was recently a show where the singer got out of a car & danced down the street for a couple of blocks, with other dancers joining in, before they all turned into the studio & went onstage.  It was "music video" to be sure... not sure how they did it - they had to have had street playback, but inside the band did seem live.  It was well-done, to be sure.

As far as audience sound, yes, pre-show, they do have the audience make as much noise as possible to record it, & yes, they add that to the live sound, so your take on the sound bigger than the apparent audience was right.  I can assure you, with at least 10,000 people filling about 6 blocks of Hwd. Blvd, for Sir Paul it wasn't necessary.

The Mellotron: I dunno, if it was a real 'Tron, what little you could see by the knobs on the control panel, they didn't look like the wide, flat knobs on my 400 #1485, typical of the time, but they did look like the right configuration.  (Mine doesn't have the piano hinge either, though; it just has the brass cabinet "snaps," & the whole lid just lifts off.) But it's true, the back panel had "finger holes" in it that they don't have - it's not removable, unless that's changed since mid-70s. Those are in the front panel, under the keyboard.  That was a little odd, on further study.  And the cabinet did seem a little "tall & shallow."  Frank, you've got great eyes & ears for the realism of it... I dunno. I heard "strings" fading in & out, but not very prominently... seemed like most of what the guy did was really irritating beeps & bleeps crap on the synth, which was all too real!  I looked 'em up afterwards, & they credit 2 "keyboard" & synth players.  No mention of Mellotron.  I may be alone (don't think), but when I use Mellotron, it gets specific featured credit!

Thanks for all your comments!  Cheers, everyone!
Berington
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by fdoddy@aol.com

Beer standards deep in the toilet?! Chris, you need to move to my neck of the woods. Yeah, I know, Imperialist America and all the shit Clay likes to rant about, but sorry, we gots good beer down here...


fritz



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 30, 2014 7:05 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Sorry Bernie!  I know there's a lot of good Chinese beer, and other stuff as well.


Okay everyone - think of the absolute worst beer you ever had - you know - beneath camel piss quality - and then insert that into the proverbial Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle, for the aforementioned example.

With beer standards deep in the toilet, the standards for what makes a Mellotron a Mellotron won't be any better, and vice-versa.




On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:56 AM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hey Chris, don't knock Tsing Tao beer! (really should be spelled Qing Dao)

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by markpringnz

Worst beers I can think of? A tie between Budweiser and the New Zealand beer DB draught. I have recently come back from Canada and had some great craft beers when I was there. I understand that there are lots of good craft beers I the U.S now as well.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by tron400@yahoo.com

The first good American beer I ever had was Sam Adams. After that, other microbreweries started jumping on the bandwagon. There are actually quite a few excellent beers produced in the USA now.

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by markpringnz@yahoo.com

On my recent trip the stand out beers were, Timothy Taylor Landlord and Hyde's best bitter in the UK. Propeller IPA in Nova Scotia and Steamworks Empress IPA in Vancouver. I also discovered Corner Gas and the delights of wings nights.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

It works for me. The machine is too narrow from front to back... unless the video is distorted.
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 6:38:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

The Tron is raised up on blocks and there are no cutouts on the back to lift off the lid, so it can't be an M400 unless it was re-cabineted, if there's such a word.

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

The Musical Box used to use a fake cabinet with a Kurzweil in it for years. Now they use an M4000D
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 6:50:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

Pabst Blue Ribbon... First introduced at the Chicago Exposition of 1893.
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 7:05:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Sorry Bernie!  I know there's a lot of good Chinese beer, and other stuff as well.


Okay everyone - think of the absolute worst beer you ever had - you know - beneath camel piss quality - and then insert that into the proverbial Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle, for the aforementioned example.

With beer standards deep in the toilet, the standards for what makes a Mellotron a Mellotron won't be any better, and vice-versa.




On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:56 AM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hey Chris, don't knock Tsing Tao beer! (really should be spelled Qing Dao)

Bernie


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-30 by lsf5275@aol.com

I remember.
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 10:55:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Yes there was!  It was during a great, multi-band tribute to the Beach Boys, if I remember right.  (I could check... I recorded it, but admittedly, I probably won't.  (-: )  Never really heard it that I noticed, but TV shows are always edited... who knows what was played that didn't get aired?  Again, though, great to see it up there.
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by Tom Doncourt

I was recabineted  once. Only because the first cabineting didn't take hold.
From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 8:05 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

 

I didn’t see anyone playing bass either!
Was he such a hot item that they had to keep him on ice offstage?

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by Chris Dale

Fritz - yeah I know.

Maybe I just need a drink....or two.....or three....or for....or fyv....:)


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 1:19 PM, fdoddy@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Beer standards deep in the toilet?! Chris, you need to move to my neck of the woods. Yeah, I know, Imperialist America and all the shit Clay likes to rant about, but sorry, we gots good beer down here...


fritz




-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 30, 2014 7:05 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Sorry Bernie!  I know there's a lot of good Chinese beer, and other stuff as well.


Okay everyone - think of the absolute worst beer you ever had - you know - beneath camel piss quality - and then insert that into the proverbial Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle, for the aforementioned example.

With beer standards deep in the toilet, the standards for what makes a Mellotron a Mellotron won't be any better, and vice-versa.




On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:56 AM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hey Chris, don't knock Tsing Tao beer! (really should be spelled Qing Dao)

Bernie


Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by Berington Van Campen

Hey Tee,
The bass player was there, but he was playing bass on the Moog L'il Phatty synth on the 2nd song.  (Stage left)  That's legit... he was playing a bass part, just on synth.  His bass guitar was on the stand behind him., which he played on the 1st song.
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by fdoddy@aol.com

:)



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Aug 31, 2014 1:10 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Fritz - yeah I know.

Maybe I just need a drink....or two.....or three....or for....or fyv....:)


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 1:19 PM, fdoddy@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Beer standards deep in the toilet?! Chris, you need to move to my neck of the woods. Yeah, I know, Imperialist America and all the shit Clay likes to rant about, but sorry, we gots good beer down here...


fritz



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Aug 30, 2014 7:05 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
Sorry Bernie!  I know there's a lot of good Chinese beer, and other stuff as well.


Okay everyone - think of the absolute worst beer you ever had - you know - beneath camel piss quality - and then insert that into the proverbial Pabst Blue Ribbon bottle, for the aforementioned example.

With beer standards deep in the toilet, the standards for what makes a Mellotron a Mellotron won't be any better, and vice-versa.




On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 6:56 AM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Hey Chris, don't knock Tsing Tao beer! (really should be spelled Qing Dao)

Bernie


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by Martin

Bud Light is a crime against humanity.


Mellotronics.com on my iPad
Celebrating 50 years of mellotrons

On 30 Aug 2014, at 12:43, "tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Actually, most of the Chinese beer is really light (watery?), but the Germans taught the people in Qingdao how to make beer, so theirs is the best.

Worst beer? Probably American Budweiser, although I wouldn't call it camel piss. Horse piss comes to mind, though.

Bernie

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-08-31 by Mike Dickson

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Mark Pring

I don't see what is weird about it, I don't hold that attitude myself but I can understand the dislike of something which is fake and this was a video not a just audio where of course it wouldn't matter. The medium can be very important there was a recent study done regarding piano competitions. A selection of people  listened to just the audio of the competition and were asked to name the winner, their efforts were no better than random. They were then show a video of the competition without sound and most of them picked the winner. Goodness knows what point I am trying to make!

Mark

From: "Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 1 September 2014 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I meant doesn't sound live.





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Mike Dickson

Well...I suppose you could also take the view that Mellotrons are 'fake' as well, if one wanted to go the distance with this.

On 1 Sep 2014 02:49, "Mark Pring markpringnz@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't see what is weird about it, I don't hold that attitude myself but I can understand the dislike of something which is fake and this was a video not a just audio where of course it wouldn't matter. The medium can be very important there was a recent study done regarding piano competitions. A selection of people  listened to just the audio of the competition and were asked to name the winner, their efforts were no better than random. They were then show a video of the competition without sound and most of them picked the winner. Goodness knows what point I am trying to make!

Mark

From: "Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 1 September 2014 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I meant doesn't sound live.





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Chris Dale

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by lsf5275@aol.com

I agree. I have no problem with digital. I have no problem with cabinets that simulate a Mellotron onstage.If you are the Musical Box, especially post Pierre (PP), it was all about recreating the look as well as the sound. You don't need a real Mellotron for that. Today I was witness to a live performance of a band with two M4000Ds. They sounded great. Interestingly the two band members who played them told me that in the studio they prefer the real thing. Besides, who wants to play a real one outside in humid 90+degree weather? Also, I could easily tell that supposedly familiar voices did not sound accurate, especially the Chamberlin voices. They agree. I suspect that this is because Markus cannot sample every voice from the Chamberlin 600, 500 or M series. He would be forever loading and offloading tapes. So the sounds come directly from the master tapes I would guess, and never actually pass over Chamberlin heads when being sampled. I am sure this is the same with many of the Mellotron voices.

Still, they sounded cool and since the music was all original, there was nothing to recreate. I know that I enjoy bringing the near dead back to life or making a decent machine just a bit better but it doesn't bother me one bit if people simulate the look and sound onstage.
Because of the hassle of lugging a 130 pound (or more) machine around and the fear of banging up a really pretty one, even though real Mellotrons are more reliable than ever and transport well, I can see wanting to leave the real one at home and take a digital facsimile instead. People aren't likely to walk out because it ain't analog.

There will always be people that want the real thing. I never have to resort to eBay. Either does Streetly. They make magic in a box with the M4000 and I can't imagine their order list drying up no matter how many M4000Ds are cranked out. M4000Ds aren't amazing. Cool and fun but NOT amazing. The M4000 IS amazing.
 
Frank (Mellotron fixer and proud owner of a 5 year old M4000 that I absolutely love and will NEVER put on stage.)
 
 
In a message dated 8/31/2014 5:56:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Mike Dickson

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh

Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Tee

Hi Berington Van Campen  et all.
I stand corrected, thank you/
 
What a group! I mean this mail group.
Trons ‘n’ beer what more could you want?
 
Mines an Abbot ale and  Tron 400 chaser
 
Cheers all.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by lsf5275@aol.com

Does anyone really give a rat's ass about THAT band on Jimmy Kimmel? I don't care what people put on stage unless I am personally involved and I have to make something work. I have a very simple formula...

Do I like the music? Yes__ No__
 
Life is short and the world is big.
 
Frank (older and mellower every day)
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 4:40:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Hi Berington Van Campen  et all.
I stand corrected, thank you/
 
What a group! I mean this mail group.
Trons ‘n’ beer what more could you want?
 
Mines an Abbot ale and  Tron 400 chaser
 
Cheers all.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Bill Rudloff

Don't you mean more "mellotronier"? ;)
Bill Rudloff

Sent from my iPhone4

On Sep 1, 2014, at 1:05 PM, "lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Does anyone really give a rat's ass about THAT band on Jimmy Kimmel? I don't care what people put on stage unless I am personally involved and I have to make something work. I have a very simple formula...

Do I like the music? Yes__ No__
 
Life is short and the world is big.
 
Frank (older and mellower every day)
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 4:40:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Hi Berington Van Campen  et all.
I stand corrected, thank you/
 
What a group! I mean this mail group.
Trons ‘n’ beer what more could you want?
 
Mines an Abbot ale and  Tron 400 chaser <wlEmoticon-winkingsmile[1].png>
 
Cheers all.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Chris Dale

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Fritz Doddy

Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude. 

Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol.

If you don't like the music, that's cool, but don't judge him because he doesn't wear designer jeans. He's got mouths to feed too.

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Andy Thompson

 
 
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!
 
The really weird thing is, WHOM is he trying to impress? The band’s audience and the general public couldn’t give a toss, so what kind of kudos is he expecting to get from this minor piece of subterfuge? Bizarre.
 
Andy T.


I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.
 
I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents. 
 
He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.
 
So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.
 
We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that.
 
This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur.
 
He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive.
 
But he hasn't, and he probably won't. 
 
 
Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool.
 
So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship?
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?
 
Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in.
 
And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?)
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.
 
Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail.
 
 
So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.
 
I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.
 
I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.
 
No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white.
 
 
As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V.
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar.
 
Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something.
 
Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always.
 
Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.
 
Is this comparable here?
 
Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 
 
So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that.
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet.
 
 
Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference.
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.
 
At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm.
 
I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with" 
 
But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)
 
I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)
 
Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels.
 
As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place?
 


On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.
 
He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.
 
It's a custom made cabinet.
 
He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.
 
And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book. 
 
 
Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. 
 
You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.
 
He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.
 
So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?
 
This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.
 
I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  
 
To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other? 
 
If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care. 
 
Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:
 
All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument 
 
it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with.
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to.
 
At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.
 
 
I hope you're wrong Frank.
 
 
Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.
 
None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.
 
The background vocals are especially fake.
 
 
Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.
 
 
 
This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.
 
I'm sure that's not the intended effect. 
 
 
But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression.
 
 
The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.
 
 
But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there) 
 
I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not.
 
The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't.
 
In a music video - okay, never a problem. 
 
But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.
 
There's no excuse in this day and age for this.
 
 
Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point.
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.
 
 
Bullshit is bullshit.    
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.

 
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Martin

Andy, I have to agree. None of it matters a jot. 

Been in any films lately?

M

Mellotronics.com on my iPad
Celebrating 50 years of mellotrons

On 1 Sep 2014, at 20:26, "'Andy Thompson' andy.thompson@virgin.net [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

 
 
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!
 
The really weird thing is, WHOM is he trying to impress? The band’s audience and the general public couldn’t give a toss, so what kind of kudos is he expecting to get from this minor piece of subterfuge? Bizarre.
 
Andy T.


I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.
 
I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents. 
 
He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.
 
So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.
 
We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that.
 
This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur.
 
He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive.
 
But he hasn't, and he probably won't. 
 
 
Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool.
 
So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship?
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?
 
Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in.
 
And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?)
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.
 
Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail.
 
 
So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.
 
I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.
 
I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.
 
No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white.
 
 
As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V.
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar.
 
Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something.
 
Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always.
 
Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.
 
Is this comparable here?
 
Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 
 
So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that.
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet.
 
 
Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference.
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.
 
At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm.
 
I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with" 
 
But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)
 
I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)
 
Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels.
 
As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place?
 


On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.
 
He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.
 
It's a custom made cabinet.
 
He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.
 
And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book. 
 
 
Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. 
 
You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.
 
He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.
 
So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?
 
This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.
 
I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  
 
To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other? 
 
If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care. 
 
Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:
 
All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument 
 
it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with.
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to.
 
At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.
 
 
I hope you're wrong Frank.
 
 
Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.
 
None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.
 
The background vocals are especially fake.
 
 
Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.
 
 
 
This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.
 
I'm sure that's not the intended effect. 
 
 
But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression.
 
 
The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.
 
 
But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there) 
 
I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not.
 
The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't.
 
In a music video - okay, never a problem. 
 
But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.
 
There's no excuse in this day and age for this.
 
 
Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point.
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.
 
 
Bullshit is bullshit.    
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.

 
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Chris Dale

"Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude."

Okay -  I'll take your word for it Fritz.  I am honestly glad to hear that.   


"Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol."

Well....I think *his* focus is on form.  And hey - no need to personalize this. I've no regrets at all, and am the happiest I've ever been.But you know, part of that comes from having sound judgement (no pun intended). :)


".... He's got mouths to feed too."

Please tell him the M3000 app is $11.99 on ITunes, instead of paying $200.00 or so to build an empty Mellotron cabinet!  :)








On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Fritz Doddy fdoddy@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude. 

Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol.

If you don't like the music, that's cool, but don't judge him because he doesn't wear designer jeans. He's got mouths to feed too.

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh



Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-01 by Hammonddave

My god. There is so much here to respond to. I will just take one point  

As a Mellotron player who was dragged in front of the musicians union in 1976 because I was playing a Mellotron at Criteria Studios in Miami, I must still side with the musicians. 

The players who recorded the tapes probably only got one fee to record them. I doing they made any royalties for every lotion sold or used on a record. So the Mellotron did put some musicians out if work. 

That being said, I could care less if this band is using a fake cabinet. Ray Manzerek used a fake Vox Continental shell for his sampler. I don't think that made him a "poser". 

David Jacques

On Sep 1, 2014, at 3:22 PM, "Fritz Doddy fdoddy@aol.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude. 

Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol.

If you don't like the music, that's cool, but don't judge him because he doesn't wear designer jeans. He's got mouths to feed too.

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by Jay Shirley

I'm with you on this one, Chris. 

And I don't understand the keyboard players that will haul around an empty upright piano shell and then insert a digital piano inside of it. I just don't get it. I've played shows with bands that do this. So much work to haul around so much heavy lumber just to build the keyboard facade. For the band, and maybe their fans, it's all about the look - the theatre.

RnR
js 

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.










--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh




Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by markpringnz

I'm sure that nobody ever got repeat fees for mellotron recordings or those 3 ladies in Harry's bedroom would be multibillionaires by now.

 I can't think it likely that many people lost work over it though. Part of the tron's charm is that it doesn't sound much like the original instrument. Bands that wanted a real orchestral effect often used real orhestras, the Moody Blues and BJH come to mind. BJH toured with an orchestra pretty much bankrupting themselves in the process. Rather perversely when they toured with just the tron they sounded so much better. I don't think bands like King Crimson were ever looking for realistic string sound.

I just don't see the point in dressing up a sampler, I wouldn't buy and M4000D or Memotron for that reason, if you are playing samples and good samples are easily available now, I would just stick with a good midi keyboard and a laptop. I would bet that less than 1% of the audience would care.

Mark


---In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, <hammonddave2004@...> wrote :

My god. There is so much here to respond to. I will just take one point  

As a Mellotron player who was dragged in front of the musicians union in 1976 because I was playing a Mellotron at Criteria Studios in Miami, I must still side with the musicians. 

The players who recorded the tapes probably only got one fee to record them. I doing they made any royalties for every lotion sold or used on a record. So the Mellotron did put some musicians out if work. 

That being said, I could care less if this band is using a fake cabinet. Ray Manzerek used a fake Vox Continental shell for his sampler. I don't think that made him a "poser". 

David Jacques

On Sep 1, 2014, at 3:22 PM, "Fritz Doddy fdoddy@... [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude. 

Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol.

If you don't like the music, that's cool, but don't judge him because he doesn't wear designer jeans. He's got mouths to feed too.

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@... [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@... [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@... [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@... [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@... [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@... [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by Chris Dale

"That being said, I could care less if this band is using a fake cabinet. Ray Manzerek used a fake Vox Continental shell for his sampler. I don't think that made him a "poser"."


You're referring to The Doors of the 21st Century right?  The music itself was good.

As for the poser aspect? 

Drummer John Densmore and Jim Morrison's estate vehemently disagree with you -.as piddly little details exactly like this factored into a 'character evaluation',  which led to the injunction that stopped Manzarek and Kreiger from using the Doors name and their manner of performance.





 


On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:07 AM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Correction Harry's daughter's bedroom!


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by lsf5275@aol.com

Chris,
 
How do you know all this? Maybe he is using Mellotron samples. Can you honestly say you can tell every single time? I saw Mattias Olsson and David Lundberg touring as Nectromonkey. They were playing Mellotron samples from the M4000Ds and running them through tons of effects at times. They were getting crazy sounds out of them. I don't care if they sounded like Mellotrons every time they depressed the keys. I liked the look of the act, the stage presentation, the tunes, the sounds and the fun. It was joyous, exciting, and interesting. Maybe when the band that was on Kimmel does an entire set the fake Mellotron spits out recognizable Mellotron sounds from time to time. And If some people, especially young ones, say, "what the hell is that instrument" and someone answers, "That's a Mellotron," how is that bad? That inquisitive guy might want to learn more and might become a fan of the real thing. For me, I think we worry about getting them to the table. We can spoon feed them later. Beyond that, who really gives a shit?
 
me
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 2:18:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by lsf5275@aol.com

Sanity!
 
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 3:25:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

 
 
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!
 
The really weird thing is, WHOM is he trying to impress? The band’s audience and the general public couldn’t give a toss, so what kind of kudos is he expecting to get from this minor piece of subterfuge? Bizarre.
 
Andy T.


I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.
 
I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents. 
 
He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.
 
So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.
 
We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that.
 
This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur.
 
He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive.
 
But he hasn't, and he probably won't. 
 
 
Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool.
 
So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship?
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?
 
Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in.
 
And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?)
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.
 
Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail.
 
 
So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.
 
I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.
 
I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.
 
No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white.
 
 
As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V.
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar.
 
Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something.
 
Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always.
 
Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.
 
Is this comparable here?
 
Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 
 
So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that.
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet.
 
 
Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference.
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.
 
At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm.
 
I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with" 
 
But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)
 
I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)
 
Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels.
 
As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place?
 


On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.
 
He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.
 
It's a custom made cabinet.
 
He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.
 
And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book. 
 
 
Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. 
 
You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.
 
He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.
 
So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?
 
This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.
 
I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  
 
To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other? 
 
If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care. 
 
Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:
 
All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument 
 
it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with.
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to.
 
At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.
 
 
I hope you're wrong Frank.
 
 
Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.
 
None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.
 
The background vocals are especially fake.
 
 
Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.
 
 
 
This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.
 
I'm sure that's not the intended effect. 
 
 
But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression.
 
 
The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.
 
 
But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there) 
 
I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not.
 
The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't.
 
In a music video - okay, never a problem. 
 
But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.
 
There's no excuse in this day and age for this.
 
 
Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point.
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.
 
 
Bullshit is bullshit.    
 
 
 
 
 
 


On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.

 
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 


 
--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh
 

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by lsf5275@aol.com

Yes, that works!
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 3:27:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Don't you mean more "mellotronier"? ;)
Bill Rudloff

Sent from my iPhone4

On Sep 1, 2014, at 1:05 PM, "lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Does anyone really give a rat's ass about THAT band on Jimmy Kimmel? I don't care what people put on stage unless I am personally involved and I have to make something work. I have a very simple formula...

Do I like the music? Yes__ No__
 
Life is short and the world is big.
 
Frank (older and mellower every day)
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 4:40:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

Hi Berington Van Campen  et all.
I stand corrected, thank you/
 
What a group! I mean this mail group.
Trons ‘n’ beer what more could you want?
 
Mines an Abbot ale and  Tron 400 chaser <wlEmoticon-winkingsmile[1].png>
 
Cheers all.

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by lsf5275@aol.com

I do.
 
 
Kidding!
 
In a message dated 9/1/2014 7:28:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
That being said, I could care less if this band is using a fake cabinet. Ray Manzerek used a fake Vox Continental shell for his sampler. I don't think that made him a "poser". 

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by Hammonddave

Don't tell Alice Cooper, Led Zepplin, Kiss, or even The Beatles that "Theatre" is not important for performance. As soon as you put on that nice shirt that you would never wear anywhere else but onstage you are guilty of selling something that you are not. 

That sampler in the Mellotron box is no different from that musicians wearing that nice shirt.



On Sep 1, 2014, at 9:44 PM, "Jay Shirley mellotronex@earthlink.net [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I'm with you on this one, Chris. 


And I don't understand the keyboard players that will haul around an empty upright piano shell and then insert a digital piano inside of it. I just don't get it. I've played shows with bands that do this. So much work to haul around so much heavy lumber just to build the keyboard facade. For the band, and maybe their fans, it's all about the look - the theatre.

RnR
js 

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] wrote:

 

I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 

I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I meant doesn't sound live.










--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh






--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh




Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by fdoddy@aol.com

Apologies for the personal attack.  Matt's a good guy and I took offense to him being slammed in what I felt was an unreasonable fashion.

fritz




-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 1, 2014 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

 
"Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude."

Okay -  I'll take your word for it Fritz.  I am honestly glad to hear that.   


"Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol."

Well....I think *his* focus is on form.  And hey - no need to personalize this. I've no regrets at all, and am the happiest I've ever been.But you know, part of that comes from having sound judgement (no pun intended). :)


".... He's got mouths to feed too."

Please tell him the M3000 app is $11.99 on ITunes, instead of paying $200.00 or so to build an empty Mellotron cabinet!  :)








On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Fritz Doddy fdoddy@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Trust me, Matt Mahafee is not a poser. He has gone through as many trials in life as any of us, if not more. He is not rich, and doesn't care about being cool. He is genuinely warm, intelligent and focused on creating his own music. He has been making music for decades, been dropped and forgotten by the industry muckity mucks and still maintains a positive attitude. 

Perhaps your focus on form over content and your own regrets allow these negative feelings to rise to a state of vitriol.

If you don't like the music, that's cool, but don't judge him because he doesn't wear designer jeans. He's got mouths to feed too.

Sorry for the brevity, as I am replying from a remote region of iPhonekstan.

On Sep 1, 2014, at 2:18 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
I don't think it's odd. I think it's about having standards about what's acceptable and what isn't.

I'm complaining that he's a twat for 'marketing'  and trying to 'sell' something he doesn't have. It's not just a 'box'. It's what that box represents.  

He's trying to fool people that he's using a real Mellotron, that he maybe tracked one down, maybe bought it, maybe repaired it, and is using the sounds in the music - and maybe supporting the good ole' Mellotron companies ---- none of which is true.

So it's somewhere between a laugh and an insult to those of us who did track down Mellotrons, spend tons of money on them, took the time to restore them, and basically give them new lives. A real Mellotron is a sacrifice of time, money, diligence, etc.

We've earned our battle scars and whatever pats on the back might go with that. 

This guy has 'battle scar tattoos' . He's merely another form of poseur. 

He's not supporting Markus or Streetly. If he was, there'd be nothing to complain about because the money he spent on the samples from them is going to a good cause - which is keeping the real machines alive. 

But he hasn't, and he probably won't.  


Why is he doing it? He's doing it for hipster cred; because he thinks it will make him and his band cool.
But they aren't. Because dishonesty is not cool. 

So if this action is 'suspect', then how do you believe in their music? album credits?  studio musicianship? 
Where is their credibility? How do you trust them? How do you believe in them as a band?

Maybe you can't. And if you really can't trust in them, or believe in them, you forget them, and find something you can believe in. 

And if you do like their music, you probably download it for free (because how can you feel bad about not paying someone who is dishonest with you to begin with?) 
And you save your money for albums by bands you can believe in, bands you can be happy and comfortable listening to.
Because you're not just buying music - you're buying into a belief system about the musicians themselves.
The Beatles are the probably the best example of this.

Everyone wants to see the hard worker succeed, and the cheater fail. 


So for me this is a definition of 'tasteless' . It wouldn't be if he was using actual Mellotron sounds.
But he isn't. He's the Mellotron Milli Vanilli, as are the prog bands Mike refers to.
And it's a fatal public relations mistake for those in the know.

I mentioned the word 'professional', but I meant a band that has standards for it's music, image, art etc and wouldn't resort to this stunt.
I wasn't necessarily referring to bands signed to labels - which are basically somewhat corrupt to begin with.

I meant that their day to day operations are consistently professional, honest and reliable - basically trying to do all the right things with good intentions.

No one is perfect, but there are some important shades of grey between black and white. 


As far as the reference to the Musicians Union - the Mellotron never could replace an orchestra, just as a sampler with digital Mellotron sounds - never can replace a Mellotron - certainly not in a recording environment. You can't really argue against the laws of physics. I even can't make my two M400's sound like the Wakeman MK V. 
Why do orchestras still use grand pianos on stage? We don't 'need' them.
Why do guitarists still use guitars? All the sounds are available from a triggered MIDI guitar. 

Because it's not just about the sound. It's about the physical nature of playing something. 

Still, I don't fault anyone for their choice of where they get their Mellotron sounds. If I knew my Mellotron was going to be subjected to severe risks during a live concert, then of course I would choose a Memotron or M4000D. They're reliable, can handle the rigors of a concert and can be replaced easily. An M400?  Not so. Not always. 

Yes, the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron and Chamberlin because they thought it would put musicians out of work.

Is this comparable here? 

Not really. The Mellotron and Chamberlin actually provided employment for these same musicians to record the tapes.
The Musicians Unions in the USA were even happy to be paid their wages when a Chamberlin was used in a major studio or on stage in an expensive lounge. They didn't even have to show up for work. Those guys were laughing all the way to bank. And I'm sure the London Symphony made a fortune recording the Birotron sounds for 3 or 4 years.
 

So this is different. I object to this because of the dishonesty factor. Because it's about a machine that has bordered on extinction for the last 20 years and has taken the efforts of several people around the world to prevent that from happening.
And it has cost them precious time, money, friendships, business partnerships, their health, a job, a marriage. The stakes have been higher. People are oblivious and insensitive to that. 
If this guy knew all that, maybe he wouldn't ponce around with his cabinet. 


Most people here who have a Mellotron also have a story of untold sacrifice, and effort, and they deserve recognition for those efforts. They deserve the recognition for making a small but quality difference. 
Not some hipster/poseur who has done nothing and achieved nothing related to it.

At the end of the day, I don't really care that this guy is doing what he's doing. He's just another schmuck trying to make a dollar using the PT Barnum method. It doesn't cause me any direct harm. 

I'm uh..."happy with what I have to be happy with"  

But I'm also happy not be his customer.  I won't be buying this bands CD's or seeing their concerts.
I like the music, but in light of everything I know about Mellotrons, I don't believe in what the keyboard player stands for. It doesn't feel right. I can't respect him. So I don't invest in it.
I'd rather give my money for a CD or album by one of you guys. I don't have to question that your efforts are genuine, well intentioned and authentic.



 




 



On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ah right - I confess I never listened to all of it - just as much as I could stand.  :-)

I still think your point is odd.  You complain that he isn't using any Mellotron sounds when he clearly isn't using a Mellotron.  In fact, what you are essentially complaining about is the shape of the instrument he is using! (Or rather the box it is contained within)

Calling it 'tasteless' is taking it a tad far as well.  As for pro musicians not doing this, I beg to differ.  Two or three Bloody Awful Prog Bands (BAPB) from the 1980s did exactly the same thing and had a Bloody Awful Sampler (BAS) within.  I know - I saw one set up in a second hand music shop round these parts. And these were real bands with real labels. 

As for this: "He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical. " Erm...wasn't this in essence the terms under which the Musicians Union objected to the Mellotron in the first place? 



On 1 September 2014 07:11, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
If you're referring to my earlier point - it's because he's not using any Mellotron sounds at all.

He's using generic string sounds, and pretending that they originate and emanate from a Mellotron.

It's a custom made cabinet.

He has no apparent interest in the actual Mellotron 'sound', he's just interested in the 'image' associated with having one.

And this makes him dishonest (if not an a**hole) in my book.  


Because he's trying to associate himself with something he has no association with. He's trying to capitalize on and exploit part of someone else's life work.  It's unethical.  

You could argue he's promoting the image of the Mellotron, but after 50 years, it doesn't need his promotion - and certainly not to that demographic.

He's not supporting Streetly or Mellotron by buying their sounds in digital form. We're not hearing any Mellotron sounds.
If he at least had actual Mellotron sounds there, then his use of the fake Mellotron cabinet would be totally understandable.
And the sounds offered now are the best they've ever been and are affordable to just about everyone.

So what's the problem? Why not buy and use the digital sounds released by Streetly or Markus?
Why not support the companies that struggled to bring back the machine and now have made the sounds available to everyone?

This is just a tasteless PR stunt. This is the kind of thing you would expect to see from some immature high school band, not a professional group of musicians.  And certainly not musicians capable of the quality of music you're hearing.

I'm calling a spade a spade. Nothing weird about it. 











On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take.  There are only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use that sound.  How else to get it?  

To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is open to them is fine by me.  I am sure you can be a purist if you like, but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself.  Yes, I know and you know that the real thing sound better than a sampler, but in the absence of one, why not use the other?  

If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really couldn't care less.  You are seemingly being concerned with the medium and not the message.  The instrument is just a means by which the sound - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) is - can be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.  

Do you feel you are being left behind?


On 30 August 2014 11:50, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
So just think - if true:

All the hard work these last 20 years - all the years of cleaning and preserving of tapes, recording them, archiving them, saving the sounds to computers, changing pinch rollers, pressure pads, cleaning capstans, adjusting tape head azimuth, re-doing the cycling mechanisms, track selectors, re-wiring power supplies, installing motors, re-building old machines, re-doing the cabinets....making new parts......and the money, and energy,  and time spent to do it.....to first save and then re-introduce the instrument  

it's all being shit upon by someone with a sampler and a case to fool people with. 
Some guy who wants to bask in the glow of others accomplishments, others music history, and years of toil and countless hard work by other people he never supported or contributed to. 

At least other people who have done something similar have bought real Mellotrons or digital products from Streetly or Mellotron. and are supporting them. They keep it going.


I hope you're wrong Frank. 


Well.....I guess walking around with Pabst Blue Ribbon bottles and secretly having cheap Chinese beer inside will be next. :)












 

 


On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 4:00 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I don't think it is a real Mellotron. I think it is a cabinet with a sampler in it. It's too tall for a Mark VI or an M400 and not deep enough front to back to be an M4000. There is no continuous hinge on the lid so it wasn't made by Markus or Streetly and the cut-outs in to lower back panel aren't right. I think it's a fake.

Frank (Real M400, Real M4000, Real Mark II)
 
 
In a message dated 8/30/2014 2:46:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com writes:
 
I thought that as well.

None of this sounds 'live' to me at all except for the lead singing and the drums.

The background vocals are especially fake.


Those aren't Mellotron strings. The Mellotron is inaudible. The players hands don't match what he's playing.
Looks like it was used as a prop.



This is a double edged sword for me. It's always nice to see a Mellotron on a mainstream show, but this also somehow always comes across like someone taking some great painting and using it as a coffee table with a person putting his coffee mug down on it and saying 'look how cool (but in reality - uncool) I am'.

I'm sure that's not the intended effect.  


But it's like the hipster version of the cliche black grand piano you see in someone's grand spacious home. It sits there, looks nice, is regularly polished - and never gets played. The impression it makes is a non-impression. 


The music itself is okay. I liked it. The melodies and arrangements are interesting. The songs are good.


But this performance itself seems more about catering to the hipster crowd - probably not the bands doing if they're on a show like Jimmy Kimmel. (And the crowd noise is also fake - at the beginning of Runaway - you hear more people cheering then are actually there)  

I'd like to see *genuine* live performances from them and listen to more of their songs to decide whether I truly like them or not. 

The music is impressive, this 'live' performance isn't. 

In a music video - okay, never a problem.  

But don't present something as 'live' and lie about it.  We now have the technology (mics, amps, etc.) to put on the best live shows.
Never before in the history of the world has that been possible.

There's no excuse in this day and age for this. 


Yes, you can argue TV's been doing this for years. But that's beside the point. 
It's never acceptable or worthwhile - regardless of who is doing it.


Bullshit is bullshit.     








On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:05 PM, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I meant doesn't sound live.





--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh




--
Mike Dickson
Edinburgh


Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by Berington Van Campen

Mmmm, beer.  And MELLOTRONS!  

What an interesting discussion!  Mellotronists are a passionate lot, eh?  HA!  How many of you wrinkle your noses a bit when you see the word "mellotron" NOT capitalized?  I do.  It's not a generic instrument; there's even the distinction between Mellotrons & Chamberlins, which are so similar as to be a "category" of instruments, but even then, they still aren't, really.  "Tape-player keyboards?"  I dunno.

Most of us old enough to remember the release of "Strawberry Fields Forever" remember taking note of that "odd flutey sound," the pitch change, and all the other "Mellotronistic" (how 'bout that?!) aspects to it.  We heard the name, & I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was probably a couple of years before I heard much more about it... even what it was.  "Parade" magazine once answered the "M" question, regarding "Strawberry Fields," by saying "... it's a type of computerized electric organ."  I'll never forget that.  Okay... pretty vague answer, & we didn't have Google then.  Eventually, I heard the "In the Court of the Crimson King."  What a watershed moment!  "THAT'S a f%#*#ing MELLOTRON??" came our gasps!  The band I was in swore we NEEDED one.  One day!  We actually played "ITCOTCK," but our keyboardist, great as he was, was relegated to his Hammond organ.  We even FOUND a 400 in a little music store outside Pittsburgh (we were based around Pittsburgh then), which thrilled us, but the price was prohibitive.  That band came & went, but I never lost that mantra.  Genesis came out w "Trick of the Tail" in '75, renewing my passion for the sound, & now in L.A., with a very supportive wife & depletion of a life insurance account, I maneuvered a couple of purchases & resales into finding & finally getting my M400 #1485.  (That's actually an amazing story, too, w some REALLY serious music history involving a Chamberlin, but not for now.  Suffice it to say, I LOVE L.A.!) 

Added another tape frame & a custom set from Mellotronics, updated electronics & all... nothing you other veterans haven't done. And I quit the L.A. Musician's Union after their well-published, punitive stance on fining those who used Mellotrons in their music.  Won't bow to that, thank you!

My long-winded point is that it's true, who gives a shit about the guy in the average band on TV, & his "Phonytron?"  Admittedly, I was MUCH more annoyed by his loud bleeps & blurps on the synth that had nothing to do with anything, let alone the songs!  At the same time, we all have stories about our real Mellotrons, and tend to scoff at those who "cheat" somehow.  I'd love to have a Digital for live use - no doubt it's hugely easier & safer to travel with, & doesn't potentially jam up in the middle of a song.  (I've thankfully never had that happen, but I guess if it could happen to R.W., it could happen to about anyone!)  But it's still "real," & there's something unique and "right" about that.  It IS a badge of honor, somehow.

So it's been an AWESOME discussion, & I fully agree with Tee: 'Trons & beer (or Guiness, to be "proper!"), with the adamant proviso, "NO DRINKS ON THE MELLOTRON!!"  (Tho' I love the graphic on the M-tron Pro, with the coffee cup ring on the lid.  I loved the detail & the humor, but it still made me cringe when I saw it!) 

I'd love to tip elbows with any & all of you!  And seriously, if these are our worst worries, we're actually doing pretty damned well.

Cheers, everyone!
Berington
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by zappaboggs

This has to be the worse thread I have ever seen!  I mean heard... I have seen...

Get a grip...

Who fucking cares!

From: "Berington Van Campen vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 5:45 PM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

 
Mmmm, beer.  And MELLOTRONS!  

What an interesting discussion!  Mellotronists are a passionate lot, eh?  HA!  How many of you wrinkle your noses a bit when you see the word "mellotron" NOT capitalized?  I do.  It's not a generic instrument; there's even the distinction between Mellotrons & Chamberlins, which are so similar as to be a "category" of instruments, but even then, they still aren't, really.  "Tape-player keyboards?"  I dunno.

Most of us old enough to remember the release of "Strawberry Fields Forever" remember taking note of that "odd flutey sound," the pitch change, and all the other "Mellotronistic" (how 'bout that?!) aspects to it.  We heard the name, & I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was probably a couple of years before I heard much more about it... even what it was.  "Parade" magazine once answered the "M" question, regarding "Strawberry Fields," by saying "... it's a type of computerized electric organ."  I'll never forget that.  Okay... pretty vague answer, & we didn't have Google then.  Eventually, I heard the "In the Court of the Crimson King."  What a watershed moment!  "THAT'S a f%#*#ing MELLOTRON??" came our gasps!  The band I was in swore we NEEDED one.  One day!  We actually played "ITCOTCK," but our keyboardist, great as he was, was relegated to his Hammond organ.  We even FOUND a 400 in a little music store outside Pittsburgh (we were based around Pittsburgh then), which thrilled us, but the price was prohibitive.  That band came & went, but I never lost that mantra.  Genesis came out w "Trick of the Tail" in '75, renewing my passion for the sound, & now in L.A., with a very supportive wife & depletion of a life insurance account, I maneuvered a couple of purchases & resales into finding & finally getting my M400 #1485.  (That's actually an amazing story, too, w some REALLY serious music history involving a Chamberlin, but not for now.  Suffice it to say, I LOVE L.A.!) 

Added another tape frame & a custom set from Mellotronics, updated electronics & all... nothing you other veterans haven't done. And I quit the L.A. Musician's Union after their well-published, punitive stance on fining those who used Mellotrons in their music.  Won't bow to that, thank you!

My long-winded point is that it's true, who gives a shit about the guy in the average band on TV, & his "Phonytron?"  Admittedly, I was MUCH more annoyed by his loud bleeps & blurps on the synth that had nothing to do with anything, let alone the songs!  At the same time, we all have stories about our real Mellotrons, and tend to scoff at those who "cheat" somehow.  I'd love to have a Digital for live use - no doubt it's hugely easier & safer to travel with, & doesn't potentially jam up in the middle of a song.  (I've thankfully never had that happen, but I guess if it could happen to R.W., it could happen to about anyone!)  But it's still "real," & there's something unique and "right" about that.  It IS a badge of honor, somehow.

So it's been an AWESOME discussion, & I fully agree with Tee: 'Trons & beer (or Guiness, to be "proper!"), with the adamant proviso, "NO DRINKS ON THE MELLOTRON!!"  (Tho' I love the graphic on the M-tron Pro, with the coffee cup ring on the lid.  I loved the detail & the humor, but it still made me cringe when I saw it!) 

I'd love to tip elbows with any & all of you!  And seriously, if these are our worst worries, we're actually doing pretty damned well.

Cheers, everyone!
Berington
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-02 by Jason Wielispach

I put drinks all the time on top of my Mellotron. My Moog Source sits on it too sometimes as well as my bass clarinet. Sometimes I play it through a pedal board and that sits on top of it as well. If I could put my girlfriend comfortably on top of it I'd eat and play at the same time too. Maybe if mine looked brand new I'd be more cautious. 

Now I've jinxed it and my next gin & tonic is gonna end spilled into it. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2014, at 4:52 PM, "zappaboggs zappaboggs@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

This has to be the worse thread I have ever seen!  I mean heard... I have seen...

Get a grip...

Who fucking cares!

From: "Berington Van Campen vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 5:45 PM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

 
Mmmm, beer.  And MELLOTRONS!  

What an interesting discussion!  Mellotronists are a passionate lot, eh?  HA!  How many of you wrinkle your noses a bit when you see the word "mellotron" NOT capitalized?  I do.  It's not a generic instrument; there's even the distinction between Mellotrons & Chamberlins, which are so similar as to be a "category" of instruments, but even then, they still aren't, really.  "Tape-player keyboards?"  I dunno.

Most of us old enough to remember the release of "Strawberry Fields Forever" remember taking note of that "odd flutey sound," the pitch change, and all the other "Mellotronistic" (how 'bout that?!) aspects to it.  We heard the name, & I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was probably a couple of years before I heard much more about it... even what it was.  "Parade" magazine once answered the "M" question, regarding "Strawberry Fields," by saying "... it's a type of computerized electric organ."  I'll never forget that.  Okay... pretty vague answer, & we didn't have Google then.  Eventually, I heard the "In the Court of the Crimson King."  What a watershed moment!  "THAT'S a f%#*#ing MELLOTRON??" came our gasps!  The band I was in swore we NEEDED one.  One day!  We actually played "ITCOTCK," but our keyboardist, great as he was, was relegated to his Hammond organ.  We even FOUND a 400 in a little music store outside Pittsburgh (we were based around Pittsburgh then), which thrilled us, but the price was prohibitive.  That band came & went, but I never lost that mantra.  Genesis came out w "Trick of the Tail" in '75, renewing my passion for the sound, & now in L.A., with a very supportive wife & depletion of a life insurance account, I maneuvered a couple of purchases & resales into finding & finally getting my M400 #1485.  (That's actually an amazing story, too, w some REALLY serious music history involving a Chamberlin, but not for now.  Suffice it to say, I LOVE L.A.!) 

Added another tape frame & a custom set from Mellotronics, updated electronics & all... nothing you other veterans haven't done. And I quit the L.A. Musician's Union after their well-published, punitive stance on fining those who used Mellotrons in their music.  Won't bow to that, thank you!

My long-winded point is that it's true, who gives a shit about the guy in the average band on TV, & his "Phonytron?"  Admittedly, I was MUCH more annoyed by his loud bleeps & blurps on the synth that had nothing to do with anything, let alone the songs!  At the same time, we all have stories about our real Mellotrons, and tend to scoff at those who "cheat" somehow.  I'd love to have a Digital for live use - no doubt it's hugely easier & safer to travel with, & doesn't potentially jam up in the middle of a song.  (I've thankfully never had that happen, but I guess if it could happen to R.W., it could happen to about anyone!)  But it's still "real," & there's something unique and "right" about that.  It IS a badge of honor, somehow.

So it's been an AWESOME discussion, & I fully agree with Tee: 'Trons & beer (or Guiness, to be "proper!"), with the adamant proviso, "NO DRINKS ON THE MELLOTRON!!"  (Tho' I love the graphic on the M-tron Pro, with the coffee cup ring on the lid.  I loved the detail & the humor, but it still made me cringe when I saw it!) 

I'd love to tip elbows with any & all of you!  And seriously, if these are our worst worries, we're actually doing pretty damned well.

Cheers, everyone!
Berington
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-03 by Personal

Spill classified growth French wine into it. Make it more vintage than it already is. Perhaps something from 1982.

"Jason Wielispach capnreverb@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>I put drinks all the time on top of my Mellotron. My Moog Source sits on it too sometimes as well as my bass clarinet. Sometimes I play it through a pedal board and that sits on top of it as well. If I could put my girlfriend comfortably on top of it I'd eat and play at the same time too. Maybe if mine looked brand new I'd be more cautious.
>
>Now I've jinxed it and my next gin & tonic is gonna end spilled into it.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 2, 2014, at 4:52 PM, "zappaboggs zappaboggs@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> This has to be the worse thread I have ever seen!  I mean heard... I have seen...
>>
>> Get a grip...
>>
>> Who fucking cares!
>>
>> From: "Berington Van Campen vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
>> To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 5:45 PM
>> Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!
>>
>> 
>> Mmmm, beer.  And MELLOTRONS!  
>>
>> What an interesting discussion!  Mellotronists are a passionate lot, eh?  HA!  How many of you wrinkle your noses a bit when you see the word "mellotron" NOT capitalized?  I do.  It's not a generic instrument; there's even the distinction between Mellotrons & Chamberlins, which are so similar as to be a "category" of instruments, but even then, they still aren't, really.  "Tape-player keyboards?"  I dunno.
>>
>> Most of us old enough to remember the release of "Strawberry Fields Forever" remember taking note of that "odd flutey sound," the pitch change, and all the other "Mellotronistic" (how 'bout that?!) aspects to it.  We heard the name, & I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was probably a couple of years before I heard much more about it... even what it was.  "Parade" magazine once answered the "M" question, regarding "Strawberry Fields," by saying "... it's a type of computerized electric organ."  I'll never forget that.  Okay... pretty vague answer, & we didn't have Google then.  Eventually, I heard the "In the Court of the Crimson King."  What a watershed moment!  "THAT'S a f%#*#ing MELLOTRON??" came our gasps!  The band I was in swore we NEEDED one.  One day!  We actually played "ITCOTCK," but our keyboardist, great as he was, was relegated to his Hammond organ.  We even FOUND a 400 in a little music store outside Pittsburgh (we were based around Pittsburgh then), which thrilled us, but the price was prohibitive.  That band came & went, but I never lost that mantra.  Genesis came out w "Trick of the Tail" in '75, renewing my passion for the sound, & now in L.A., with a very supportive wife & depletion of a life insurance account, I maneuvered a couple of purchases & resales into finding & finally getting my M400 #1485.  (That's actually an amazing story, too, w some REALLY serious music history involving a Chamberlin, but not for now.  Suffice it to say, I LOVE L.A.!) 
>>
>> Added another tape frame & a custom set from Mellotronics, updated electronics & all... nothing you other veterans haven't done. And I quit the L.A. Musician's Union after their well-published, punitive stance on fining those who used Mellotrons in their music.  Won't bow to that, thank you!
>>
>> My long-winded point is that it's true, who gives a shit about the guy in the average band on TV, & his "Phonytron?"  Admittedly, I was MUCH more annoyed by his loud bleeps & blurps on the synth that had nothing to do with anything, let alone the songs!  At the same time, we all have stories about our real Mellotrons, and tend to scoff at those who "cheat" somehow.  I'd love to have a Digital for live use - no doubt it's hugely easier & safer to travel with, & doesn't potentially jam up in the middle of a song.  (I've thankfully never had that happen, but I guess if it could happen to R.W., it could happen to about anyone!)  But it's still "real," & there's something unique and "right" about that.  It IS a badge of honor, somehow.
>>
>> So it's been an AWESOME discussion, & I fully agree with Tee: 'Trons & beer (or Guiness, to be "proper!"), with the adamant proviso, "NO DRINKS ON THE MELLOTRON!!"  (Tho' I love the graphic on the M-tron Pro, with the coffee cup ring on the lid.  I loved the detail & the humor, but it still made me cringe when I saw it!) 
>>
>> I'd love to tip elbows with any & all of you!  And seriously, if these are our worst worries, we're actually doing pretty damned well.
>>
>> Cheers, everyone!
>> Berington
>> 
>> Berington Van Campen
>> Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
>> VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
>> The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
>> www.TheBeatunes.com
>> (626) 458-4474 Home/Office
>> www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
>> www.facebook.com/berington
>>
>>
>>

 

I put drinks all the time on top of my Mellotron. My Moog Source sits on it too sometimes as well as my bass clarinet. Sometimes I play it through a pedal board and that sits on top of it as well. If I could put my girlfriend comfortably on top of it I'd eat and play at the same time too. Maybe if mine looked brand new I'd be more cautious. 

Now I've jinxed it and my next gin & tonic is gonna end spilled into it. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2014, at 4:52 PM, "zappaboggs zappaboggs@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

This has to be the worse thread I have ever seen!  I mean heard... I have seen...

Get a grip...

Who fucking cares!

From: "Berington Van Campen vcmusicorp1@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 5:45 PM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Mellotron on TV!

 
Mmmm, beer.  And MELLOTRONS!  

What an interesting discussion!  Mellotronists are a passionate lot, eh?  HA!  How many of you wrinkle your noses a bit when you see the word "mellotron" NOT capitalized?  I do.  It's not a generic instrument; there's even the distinction between Mellotrons & Chamberlins, which are so similar as to be a "category" of instruments, but even then, they still aren't, really.  "Tape-player keyboards?"  I dunno.

Most of us old enough to remember the release of "Strawberry Fields Forever" remember taking note of that "odd flutey sound," the pitch change, and all the other "Mellotronistic" (how 'bout that?!) aspects to it.  We heard the name, & I don't know about you guys, but for me, it was probably a couple of years before I heard much more about it... even what it was.  "Parade" magazine once answered the "M" question, regarding "Strawberry Fields," by saying "... it's a type of computerized electric organ."  I'll never forget that.  Okay... pretty vague answer, & we didn't have Google then.  Eventually, I heard the "In the Court of the Crimson King."  What a watershed moment!  "THAT'S a f%#*#ing MELLOTRON??" came our gasps!  The band I was in swore we NEEDED one.  One day!  We actually played "ITCOTCK," but our keyboardist, great as he was, was relegated to his Hammond organ.  We even FOUND a 400 in a little music store outside Pittsburgh (we were based around Pittsburgh then), which thrilled us, but the price was prohibitive.  That band came & went, but I never lost that mantra.  Genesis came out w "Trick of the Tail" in '75, renewing my passion for the sound, & now in L.A., with a very supportive wife & depletion of a life insurance account, I maneuvered a couple of purchases & resales into finding & finally getting my M400 #1485.  (That's actually an amazing story, too, w some REALLY serious music history involving a Chamberlin, but not for now.  Suffice it to say, I LOVE L.A.!) 

Added another tape frame & a custom set from Mellotronics, updated electronics & all... nothing you other veterans haven't done. And I quit the L.A. Musician's Union after their well-published, punitive stance on fining those who used Mellotrons in their music.  Won't bow to that, thank you!

My long-winded point is that it's true, who gives a shit about the guy in the average band on TV, & his "Phonytron?"  Admittedly, I was MUCH more annoyed by his loud bleeps & blurps on the synth that had nothing to do with anything, let alone the songs!  At the same time, we all have stories about our real Mellotrons, and tend to scoff at those who "cheat" somehow.  I'd love to have a Digital for live use - no doubt it's hugely easier & safer to travel with, & doesn't potentially jam up in the middle of a song.  (I've thankfully never had that happen, but I guess if it could happen to R.W., it could happen to about anyone!)  But it's still "real," & there's something unique and "right" about that.  It IS a badge of honor, somehow.

So it's been an AWESOME discussion, & I fully agree with Tee: 'Trons & beer (or Guiness, to be "proper!"), with the adamant proviso, "NO DRINKS ON THE MELLOTRON!!"  (Tho' I love the graphic on the M-tron Pro, with the coffee cup ring on the lid.  I loved the detail & the humor, but it still made me cringe when I saw it!) 

I'd love to tip elbows with any & all of you!  And seriously, if these are our worst worries, we're actually doing pretty damned well.

Cheers, everyone!
Berington
 
Berington Van Campen
Van Campen Productions / V.C.MusiCorp Scoring Services
VCMusiCorp1@yahoo.com
The BEATUNES - Beatles Tribute Band
www.TheBeatunes.com
(626) 458-4474 Home/Office
www.myspace.com/berington (Music)
www.facebook.com/berington


Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-21 by Steven Davies-Morris

On 09/02/2014 01:32 AM, lsf5275@aol.com [newmellotrongroup] wrote:
> Chris,
> How do you know all this? Maybe he *is* using Mellotron samples. Can you
> honestly say you can tell every single time? I saw Mattias Olsson and
> David Lundberg touring as Nectromonkey. They were playing Mellotron
> samples from the M4000Ds and running them through tons of effects *at
> times*. They were getting crazy sounds out of them. I don't care if they
> sounded like Mellotrons every time they depressed the keys. I liked the
> look of the act, the stage presentation, the tunes, the sounds and the
> fun. It was joyous, exciting, and interesting. Maybe when the band that
> was on Kimmel does an entire set the fake Mellotron spits out
> recognizable Mellotron sounds from time to time. And If some people,
> especially young ones, say, "what the hell is that instrument" and
> someone answers, "That's a Mellotron," how is that bad? That inquisitive
> guy might want to learn more and might become a fan of the real thing.
> For me, I think we worry about getting them to the table. We can spoon
> feed them later. Beyond that, who really gives a shit?
> me

Right on, brother! *applause*
--
SDM a 21st century schizoid man in SoCal
Systems Theory website www.systemstheory.net
Through The Looking Glass radio show at www.deepnuggets.com

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-21 by Steven Davies-Morris

On 08/30/2014 02:02 PM, tron400@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] wrote:
> The first good American beer I ever had was Sam Adams. After that, other
> microbreweries started jumping on the bandwagon. There are actually
> quite a few excellent beers produced in the USA now.
>
> Bernie

Anything bny Karl Strauss in San Diego. Superb.
--
SDM a 21st century schizoid man in SoCal
Systems Theory website www.systemstheory.net
Through The Looking Glass radio show at www.deepnuggets.com

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron on TV!

2014-09-21 by Steven Davies-Morris

On 08/31/2014 02:56 PM, Mike Dickson mike.dickson@gmail.com
[newmellotrongroup] wrote:
> That's a really weird and (frankly) weird attitude to take. There are
> only a finite number of Mellotrons around, and people want to use /that
> sound/. How else to get it?

I cannot afford one. Even if I got rid of my family and relegeted all
of the other things I might want to spend serious money on to to the
dunce corner I still probably could not come up with the gelt for the
real thing. But I can (have) bought the Mike Pinder tron disc for Akai.
Close enough for rock 'n' roll (etc).

> To berate people for wanting the sound they love by whatever means is
> open to them is fine by me. I am sure you can be a purist if you like,
> but it's a strange kind of existence to make for yourself. Yes, /I/
> know and /you /know that *the real thing *sound better than a sampler,
> but in the absence of one, why not use the other?

Amen, my eternal brother in arms.

> If people want to put samplers inside fake Mellotron cases then I really
> couldn't care less. You are seemingly being concerned with the medium
> and not the message. The instrument is just a means by which the sound
> - which is ultimately all that this (or any other instrument) /is/ - can
> be communicated, and most people who hear it and love it couldn't care.

If the mix is right I'm not sure most of us can even differentiate.

> Do you feel you are being left behind?

*inhales, holds breath*
--
SDM a 21st century schizoid man in SoCal
Systems Theory website www.systemstheory.net
Through The Looking Glass radio show at www.deepnuggets.com