Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Re: [newmellotrongroup] 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-04 by Chris Dale

Welcome Mattias:

Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.

It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's Mellotron cello.

The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these recordings pre-date that.

What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher frequencies muted out.

This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model up until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.

You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have this and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).

Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada before the Mellotron arrived.
(In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally encountered more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)

Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar then, but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive recording. The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this second video is live in a studio?
If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music Master though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some electric piano.

Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the combo organ sound and not the tape keyboards.

Thanks for sharing it.

Chris Dale

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias <mattias.puttonen@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone,

My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of them is in the Yahoo-group photo section: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list

I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim Morrison film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY

The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this sad Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c

My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII and got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of another lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work master or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know better? -You're the experts!

Cheers,

Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
(Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-07 by Mattias

Chris, thanks for the response and info! I read somewhere that you own the Gino/Joe Vanelli M1. Cool! What special (Gino/Joe-) sounds does it have?

I thought the Chamberlin cello sound was introduced with the M-series. I tried to find a list with the lead sounds for the Musicmaster but no luck.. An MM (or even an M-series machine, or a prototype) could of course have been used for both sessions since they probably were available before Jim's move to Paris.

Anyway, here's some great Mellotron cello from 1968! Comes in at 0:53 and could be from an M300. Also has some lovely strings and flute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Cheers,

Mattias Puttonen
M400 #851 and MkII #116

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Chris Dale wrote:
>
> Welcome Mattias:
>
>
> Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.
>
> It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's
> Mellotron cello.
>
> The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these recordings
> pre-date that.
>
> What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher
> frequencies muted out.
>
> This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model up
> until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.
>
> You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have this
> and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's
> -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The
> inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his
> son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).
>
> Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada before
> the Mellotron arrived.
> (In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally encountered
> more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)
>
>
> Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar then,
> but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't
> heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to
> re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive recording.
> The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this second
> video is live in a studio?
> If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music Master
> though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did
> mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
> It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some
> electric piano.
>
> Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the combo
> organ sound and not the tape keyboards.
>
> Thanks for sharing it.
>
>
> Chris Dale
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the
> > Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying
> > records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have
> > aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of them
> > is in the Yahoo-group photo section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list
> >
> > I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim Morrison
> > film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and
> > (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY
> >
> > The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John
> > Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this sad
> > Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c
> >
> > My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII and
> > got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of another
> > lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work master
> > or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know better?
> > -You're the experts!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
> > (Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-07 by Bruce Daily

Hi all-

...And Fripp never smiled again for an album cover after that.

-Bruce D.

#1221

From: Mattias <mattias.puttonen@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 2:50 AM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

Chris, thanks for the response and info! I read somewhere that you own the Gino/Joe Vanelli M1. Cool! What special (Gino/Joe-) sounds does it have?

I thought the Chamberlin cello sound was introduced with the M-series. I tried to find a list with the lead sounds for the Musicmaster but no luck.. An MM (or even an M-series machine, or a prototype) could of course have been used for both sessions since they probably were available before Jim's move to Paris.

Anyway, here's some great Mellotron cello from 1968! Comes in at 0:53 and could be from an M300. Also has some lovely strings and flute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Cheers,

Mattias Puttonen
M400 #851 and MkII #116

--- In mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com, Chris Dale wrote:
>
> Welcome Mattias:
>
>
> Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.
>
> It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's
> Mellotron cello.
>
> The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these recordings
> pre-date that.
>
> What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher
> frequencies muted out.
>
> This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model up
> until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.
>
> You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have this
> and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's
> -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The
> inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his
> son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).
>
> Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada before
> the Mellotron arrived.
> (In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally encountered
> more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)
>
>
> Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar then,
> but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't
> heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to
> re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive recording.
> The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this second
> video is live in a studio?
> If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music Master
> though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did
> mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
> It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some
> electric piano.
>
> Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the combo
> organ sound and not the tape keyboards.
>
> Thanks for sharing it.
>
>
> Chris Dale
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the
> > Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying
> > records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have
> > aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of them
> > is in the Yahoo-group photo section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list
> >
> > I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim Morrison
> > film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and
> > (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY
> >
> > The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John
> > Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this sad
> > Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c
> >
> > My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII and
> > got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of another
> > lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work master
> > or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know better?
> > -You're the experts!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
> > (Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-07 by Tom Doncourt

I like the M300 Cello...wonder if it'''s available anywhere, I recall liking the clarinet alot too!

On Feb 7, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:

Hi all-

   ...And Fripp never smiled again for an album cover after that.

   -Bruce D.

   #1221

From: Mattias <mattias.puttonen@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 2:50 AM
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

Chris, thanks for the response and info! I read somewhere that you own the Gino/Joe Vanelli M1. Cool! What special (Gino/Joe-) sounds does it have?

I thought the Chamberlin cello sound was introduced with the M-series. I tried to find a list with the lead sounds for the Musicmaster but no luck.. An MM (or even an M-series machine, or a prototype) could of course have been used for both sessions since they probably were available before Jim's move to Paris.

Anyway, here's some great Mellotron cello from 1968! Comes in at 0:53 and could be from an M300. Also has some lovely strings and flute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Cheers,

Mattias Puttonen
M400 #851 and MkII #116

--- In mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com, Chris Dale wrote:
>
> Welcome Mattias:
>
>
> Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.
>
> It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's
> Mellotron cello.
>
> The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these recordings
> pre-date that.
>
> What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher
> frequencies muted out.
>
> This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model up
> until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.
>
> You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have this
> and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's
> -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The
> inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his
> son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).
>
> Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada before
> the Mellotron arrived.
> (In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally encountered
> more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)
>
>
> Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar then,
> but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't
> heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to
> re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive recording.
> The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this second
> video is live in a studio?
> If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music Master
> though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did
> mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
> It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some
> electric piano.
>
> Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the combo
> organ sound and not the tape keyboards.
>
> Thanks for sharing it.
>
>
> Chris Dale
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the
> > Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying
> > records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have
> > aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of them
> > is in the Yahoo-group photo section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list
> >
> > I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim Morrison
> > film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and
> > (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY
> >
> > The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John
> > Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this sad
> > Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c
> >
> > My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII and
> > got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of another
> > lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work master
> > or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know better?
> > -You're the experts!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
> > (Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-07 by Chris Dale

Hi Mattias,

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Mattias <mattias.puttonen@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris, thanks for the response and info! I read somewhere that you own the Gino/Joe Vanelli M1. Cool! What special (Gino/Joe-) sounds does it have?
Yes, it has Cello, Violin, French Horn, Flute, Male Voice, Female Voice and two special sounds that Harry kept for himself in his Riviera. He relented in the very last days and sold them with the last 2 or 3 M1's made. These are Harp Arpeggio and Harp Glissando. Those last two sounds are also specially recorded and timed so that they sound good when blended with other sound choices from A or B. With other sounds - sometimes one starts a millisecond before another, but not these two. They were likely originally intended for film soundtracks, and possibly were an old Disney special request. They sound very Disney-Fantasia-ish.

The other sounds Gino and Joe used were a series of special string sections consisting of violins, violas, cellos, mixed strings etc. which sound a bit more modern than the 1940's strings Harry had recorded. Gino and Joe had an orchestra school group record these and Harry and Richard transferred them to M1 size tapes. These sounds can be played faster than the other sounds because of how they were recorded. You can't tell that it's Chamberlin when you hear them. They're on a different set of tapes and each track has a different sound - (8 sounds instead of the normal 6) I believe Markus has some (but not all) of these. Gino/Joe only used the Chamberlin on the Nightwalker album and then retired it. It wasn't even turned on for years until I bought it from them.

I thought the Chamberlin cello sound was introduced with the M-series. I tried to find a list with the lead sounds for the Musicmaster but no luck.. An MM (or even an M-series machine, or a prototype) could of course have been for both sessions since they probably were available before Jim's move to Paris.

I wondered about that too. I asked Richard about sounds released with different models. It turns out the Chamberlin sounds were all recorded in the 1940's and 50's. They weren't recorded and released in libraries for each model like the Mellotrons. Some sounds were held back and trickled out later. There wasn't documentation for these sounds other than on advertisement flyers for each instrument.

Anyway, here's some great Mellotron cello from 1968! Comes in at 0:53 and could be from an M300. Also has some lovely strings and flute. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Thanks for this! I forgot how silly Giles Giles and Fripp were. I actually have this album. I bought an original copy still sealed. For some reason this particular Decca record release is thicker than the other regular LP's of that time. If you threw it at someone you could probably kill them.
Anyway, this might be a surprise but it's not actually M300 violins. Real cellists and string players are credited on the back cover. It's Mellotron MK II flute though. It's also possible that these people were Mellotron session players.
David McCallum's father (well "The Man From Uncle's" father - whoever that is) and Pete Townshends father (a sax player) were possibly on these tapes.
I know that a lot of musicians used a combination of both real strings and Mellotron to thicken up the sound. It also helped them get around the Musicians Union ban.

There isn't a lot of M300 recordings and the best place to hear them is the Moody Blues, Barclay James Harvest, and Gentle Giant. To confuse the issue there's two different lead sets of tapes for the M300. Set A is violas, set B is a solo violin and then there's another lead set that's split - consisting of cello, viola and violin in their registers. The last one is an uncommon set and I think it was largely abandoned early on. Set A has the most sparkle and in my opinion is a better recording than the others. It's as distinctive a voice as the MK II violins but also very different from the MK II and still has a character that even the Chamberlin strings don't reach. Actually there's a Birotron sound that's similar. Anyway if you listen to Wooly Wolstenholme's work with Barclay James Harvest, you'll really hear it sing. That sound through the M300 spring reverb is gorgeous.

Cheers,

Mattias Puttonen
M400 #851 and MkII #116

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Chris Dale wrote:
>
> Welcome Mattias:
>
>
> Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.
>
> It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's
> Mellotron cello.
>
> The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these recordings
> pre-date that.
>
> What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher
> frequencies muted out.
>
> This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model up
> until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.
>
> You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have this
> and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's
> -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The
> inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his
> son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).
>
> Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada before
> the Mellotron arrived.
> (In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally encountered
> more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)
>
>
> Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar then,
> but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't
> heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to
> re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive recording.
> The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this second
> video is live in a studio?
> If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music Master
> though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did
> mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
> It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some
> electric piano.
>
> Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the combo
> organ sound and not the tape keyboards.
>
> Thanks for sharing it.
>
>
> Chris Dale
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias wrote:
>
> > **

> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the
> > Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying
> > records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have
> > aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of them
> > is in the Yahoo-group photo section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list
> >
> > I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim Morrison
> > film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and
> > (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY
> >
> > The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John
> > Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this sad
> > Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c
> >
> > My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII and
> > got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of another
> > lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work master
> > or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know better?
> > -You're the experts!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
> > (Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-08 by Mattias

Hi Chris

Thanks again for taking the time. I really appreciate learning more about this stuff!

> These sounds can be played faster than the other sounds
> because of how they were recorded.

I had to lisen to Nightwalker again and you're right, they sound very real! Markus do have some of the Vanelli sounds. Hopefully they all will end up on the expansion cards for the M4000D so I can demo them properly. (Have to hog Mattias Olssons machine then.) I have only heard a few, one of them being the scary tremolo violins (which ended up mislabeled as staccato violins for Nord keyboards), two cellos in unison and some pizzicato ones. You have some really unique stuff there for your M1!

> Thanks for this! I forgot how silly Giles Giles and Fripp were. I actually
> have this album. I bought an original copy still sealed. For some reason
> this particular Decca record release is thicker than the other regular LP's
> of that time. If you threw it at someone you could probably kill them.

The catchy "Digging My Lawn" had me giggling! Ok, I'm from Sweden..

> Anyway, this might be a surprise but it's not actually M300 violins. Real
> cellists and string players are credited on the back cover.

I didn't know that string players were credited so I had a closer listen and they're there alright, on Thursday Morning and Sun Is Shining. The rest is M300 and MkII with Suite No. 1 being the nicest example of MkII use: strings from 1:50 and even some strings/brass mix later on the same track. So yes, that's indeed the rare M300 cello on One In a Million. While listening (warning this is getting nerdy) I discovered M300 vibes (w/o vibrato) on North Meadow at 2:05 and even MkII vibes on Elephant song at 2:39 (deep in the mix, though).

> Anyway if you listen to Wooly Wolstenholme's work with Barclay James Harvest, you'll
> really hear it sing. That sound through the M300 spring reverb is gorgeous.

Really like the sound on Medicine Man. Gotta have the M300 for the proper 52 note range though. Sigh..

Have a nice weekend!

/Mattias

> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Chris Dale wrote:
> > >
> > > Welcome Mattias:
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for sending this. It's an interesting time capsule of sorts.
> > >
> > > It certainly sounds like MK II electric guitar in there but I doubt it's
> > > Mellotron cello.
> > >
> > > The Mellotron cello was released with the M400 in 1970 and these
> > recordings
> > > pre-date that.
> > >
> > > What I'm fairly certain it is - is Chamberlin cello, but with the higher
> > > frequencies muted out.
> > >
> > > This would be a Chamberlin Musicmaster 600 which was the 'common' model
> > up
> > > until the M1 came out in late 69 / early 1970.
> > >
> > > You can also tell by the heavy vibrato as many Chamberlin sounds have
> > this
> > > and it was characteristic of the recordings of that time - (1940's
> > > -1950's). The Chamberlin was intended as a big band instrument. (The
> > > inventor despised everything about rock and roll that he largely made his
> > > son deal with the rock musicians though Bobby Darin was an exception).
> > >
> > > Chamberlins were used starting from the 1950's in the US and Canada
> > before
> > > the Mellotron arrived.
> > > (In fact, I thought Mellotrons were rarer because I personally
> > encountered
> > > more Chamberlins in my travels, and never thought the inverse was true.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course, this brings up the possibility that it's not MK II guitar
> > then,
> > > but a Chamberlin electric guitar sound used in the same range. I haven't
> > > heard the Chamberlin electric guitar in a long time and would have to
> > > re-familiarize myself with it. It's not a common or distinctive
> > recording.
> > > The Doors never owned a Mellotron or Chamberlin so I wonder if this
> > second
> > > video is live in a studio?
> > > If so the studio could have had both a MK II and a Chamberlin Music
> > Master
> > > though they would have to be a major outfit based in Hollywood that did
> > > mainly post production for movies to afford both at that time.
> > > It also sounds like there's some real saxophone too, and maybe some
> > > electric piano.
> > >
> > > Certainly it's interesting as the Doors are most associated with the
> > combo
> > > organ sound and not the tape keyboards.
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris Dale
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Mattias wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > My name is Mattias Puttonen and I have been fascinated by the
> > > > Mellotron/Chamberlin sound since the late 80's when I started buying
> > > > records at the Mellotronen record shop in Stockholm. Since then I have
> > > > aquired a couple machines that I love to play and tinker with. One of
> > them
> > > > is in the Yahoo-group photo section:
> > > >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newmellotrongroup/photos/album/570072533/pic/list
> > > >
> > > > I thought this would be worth sharing: from the experimental Jim
> > Morrison
> > > > film HWY (1969) featuring the cool sounds of MkII rock guitar and
> > > > (M400/M300?) cello. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eLo0ilQ7hY
> > > >
> > > > The MkII used on this was probably Jac Holzman's (now owned by John
> > > > Frusciante). For some more of that same "tronny" cello, check out this
> > sad
> > > > Doors jam, starts at 6:25: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-SoXMh6g0c
> > > >
> > > > My humble guess is that Jac wanted some more string sounds in his MkII
> > and
> > > > got a single station with cello only on the left hand instead of
> > another
> > > > lead set. I don't think Mellotronics would do an entirely new work
> > master
> > > > or splice in a new station, but what do I know? Does anyone know
> > better?
> > > > -You're the experts!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Mattias Puttonen, Stockholm
> > > > (Current favorite frame: MkII rock guitar/Chamb flute/M400 bassoon)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-09 by Sean

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mattias" wrote:

>While listening (warning this is getting nerdy) I discovered M300 vibes (w/o vibrato) on North Meadow at 2:05

Ah, that's what that sound is. Never did figure it out, then again I'm not at all familiar with the 300 sounds.

You'll also hear the MkII church organ in that tune.

-Sean

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-09 by m400s851

> You'll also hear the MkII church organ in that tune.

Hi Sean,

It does have that sound, plus the attack and release is different for each chord.
Seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZx5y5eY3tE

/Mattias Puttonen

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Sean" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mattias" wrote:
> >While listening (warning this is getting nerdy) I discovered M300 vibes (w/o vibrato) on North Meadow at 2:05
>
> Ah, that's what that sound is. Never did figure it out, then again I'm not at all familiar with the 300 sounds.
>
> You'll also hear the MkII church organ in that tune.
>
> -Sean
>

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-10 by Chris Dale

Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?

I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and this album was made early to mid 1968.

I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the Moodies.

On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Sean <fourtytwominds@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mattias" wrote:
>While listening (warning this is getting nerdy) I discovered M300 vibes (w/o vibrato) on North Meadow at 2:05

Ah, that's what that sound is. Never did figure it out, then again I'm not at all familiar with the 300 sounds.

You'll also hear the MkII church organ in that tune.

-Sean

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-11 by m400s851

> Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?
>
> I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and
> this album was made early to mid 1968.
>
> I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the
> Moodies.

Of course I could be totally wrong (the CYA, Frank) but I don't know of any other instrument that could have made those sounds in '68.

I'm hearing tape replay cello at 0:53-1:07 and cello + strings 1:34-1:47 on One In a Million especially the last four notes in each example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Compare that to the real cellos on Thursday Morning from the same album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOt4eqtUuLM

I'm also hearing tape replay vibes that can't be MkII on North Meadow at 1:40-2:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AQj8WvcOs
M300 vibes are the"slow vibrato" variety according to Samagaio's book.

It would be great to hear what you and other members of the group think! Hessel?

-Mattias Puttonen
#851 and MkII #116

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-11 by Hessel Herder

Hi Mattias,

The vibes on North Meadow sound out of register for M300 ( slow ) vibes: or maybe thay recorded it half speed?

Best,H

Van: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] Namens m400s851
Verzonden: maandag 11 februari 2013 11:20
Aan: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

> Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?
>
> I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and
> this album was made early to mid 1968.
>
> I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the
> Moodies.

Of course I could be totally wrong (the CYA, Frank) but I don't know of any other instrument that could have made those sounds in '68.

I'm hearing tape replay cello at 0:53-1:07 and cello + strings 1:34-1:47 on One In a Million especially the last four notes in each example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Compare that to the real cellos on Thursday Morning from the same album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOt4eqtUuLM

I'm also hearing tape replay vibes that can't be MkII on North Meadow at 1:40-2:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AQj8WvcOs
M300 vibes are the"slow vibrato" variety according to Samagaio's book.

It would be great to hear what you and other members of the group think! Hessel?

-Mattias Puttonen
#851 and MkII #116

RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-11 by Hessel Herder

Mattias,

The violins you mention in One in a Million sound like M300 A , nice and dry.

Mind that the 300 also had solo cello in the LH side

Cheers,H

Van: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] Namens m400s851
Verzonden: maandag 11 februari 2013 11:20
Aan: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

> Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?
>
> I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and
> this album was made early to mid 1968.
>
> I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the
> Moodies.

Of course I could be totally wrong (the CYA, Frank) but I don't know of any other instrument that could have made those sounds in '68.

I'm hearing tape replay cello at 0:53-1:07 and cello + strings 1:34-1:47 on One In a Million especially the last four notes in each example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Compare that to the real cellos on Thursday Morning from the same album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOt4eqtUuLM

I'm also hearing tape replay vibes that can't be MkII on North Meadow at 1:40-2:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AQj8WvcOs
M300 vibes are the"slow vibrato" variety according to Samagaio's book.

It would be great to hear what you and other members of the group think! Hessel?

-Mattias Puttonen
#851 and MkII #116

Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-11 by tronbros@aol.com

This all begs the question.......does it really matter?

M

mellotronics.com

mellotronics.com

1963 - 2013 The 50th anniversary of the mellotron

-----Original Message-----
From: m400s851 <mattias.puttonen@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:20
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?

> Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?
>
> I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and
> this album was made early to mid 1968.
>
> I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the
> Moodies.

Of course I could be totally wrong (the CYA, Frank) but I don't know of any other instrument that could have made those sounds in '68.

I'm hearing tape replay cello at 0:53-1:07 and cello + strings 1:34-1:47 on One In a Million especially the last four notes in each example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g

Compare that to the real cellos on Thursday Morning from the same album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOt4eqtUuLM

I'm also hearing tape replay vibes that can't be MkII on North Meadow at 1:40-2:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AQj8WvcOs
M300 vibes are the"slow vibrato" variety according to Samagaio's book.

It would be great to hear what you and other members of the group think! Hessel?

-Mattias Puttonen
#851 and MkII #116

Re: 60's custom tape sets?

2013-02-11 by m400s851

No, not really. It's just that I'm interested in Mellotrons... and.... their different sounds. I have no life. :)

/Mattias

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros@... wrote:
>
> This all begs the question.......does it really matter?
>
> M
>
>
> mellotronics.com
>
>
>
> mellotronics.com
>
> 1963 - 2013 The 50th anniversary of the mellotron
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: m400s851 mattias.puttonen@...
> To: newmellotrongroup newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:20
> Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 60's custom tape sets?
>
> Â
>
> > Are you guys 100% sure these sounds are M300?
> >
> > I was under the impression the M300 didn't come out until late 1968, and
> > this album was made early to mid 1968.
> >
> > I thought the first song to have M300 was Never Comes The Day by the
> > Moodies.
>
> Of course I could be totally wrong (the CYA, Frank) but I don't know of any other instrument that could have made those sounds in '68.
>
> I'm hearing tape replay cello at 0:53-1:07 and cello + strings 1:34-1:47 on One In a Million especially the last four notes in each example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsR1h1w-N1g
>
> Compare that to the real cellos on Thursday Morning from the same album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOt4eqtUuLM
>
> I'm also hearing tape replay vibes that can't be MkII on North Meadow at 1:40-2:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AQj8WvcOs
> M300 vibes are the"slow vibrato" variety according to Samagaio's book.
>
> It would be great to hear what you and other members of the group think! Hessel?
>
> -Mattias Puttonen
> #851 and MkII #116
>