The Mellotron Group

On 18 November 2012 17:18, Bruce Daily <pocotron@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Thanks, Mark-

   It looks like a very good transfer, both sound and picture.  Nice and clear.  The tron appears to be the white-finished Mk2, but I may be wrong.  Looks like it is sticking out of a white box in "Watcher".

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

On 19 Nov 2012, at 09:07, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'.  

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60  I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

 

The bass drones in 'Watcher' on that would have come from either the Hammond or possibly even from Mike Rutherford's Dewtron bass pedal unit. I acquired one of the latter devices earlier this year- a wierd mixture of indestructible steel chassis, resin-potted electronics and super-flimsy plastic pedals and key contact switches.. works fine though now. It only makes one sound, but it's HUUUUUGE :-)

If I had one shot at time travel I think I would still probably use it to catch an early 70s Genesis gig... or lurk outside a certain Munich beerhall with a BSA fork stanchion...

Love and Scones,

Wallis xx

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
From: vietgrove@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:11:44 +0000
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I don't particularly mind the theatrics, although I do find Gabriel's onstabe manner somewhat grating.  I don't know why, exactly.

Again though, better this than the scuffed trainer of indie landfill singer treading on the face of humanity FOREVER.

On 19 November 2012 09:12, tronbros <tronbros@aol.com> wrote:

I have to agree with Mike.  The only difference is I do enjoy a lot of the compositions but the stage theatrics leave me cringing.....

M

mellotronics.com on my iPad

On 19 Nov 2012, at 09:07, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

 

I saw “The Lamb” one month before Gabriel left in December 74, Auditorium Theatre Chicago, a 12,000 seat Venue.

Never having heard of them, I went with my friends on a whim and enjoyed them.

Knew about the Mellotron having already become a Tangerine Dream fan, recognized an M400 along with a large, organ like keyboard in white, a Mark II, I later found out. At 19 they sure had my full attention, and I found the theatrics unusual but amusing just the same.

 

Tony #510

 

From: lsf5275@aol.com

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:37 AM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60 I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

 

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

 

Surely somebody knows.

 

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

 

Ginowong@gmail.com

 

 

Oddly, I have no doubt that you would have as well. I'm sure at the time, other people would have shared your view. I know my dad did. At the time, I didn't think it was idiotic. I thought the musicianship was incredible and the performance by Gabriel was different and exciting. I had seen plenty of Grateful Dead and CSN, James Taylor, Muddy Waters Michael Bloomfield, BB King, Credence... etc.

 

In 1973, the only other band that electrified me like that was Bruce Springsteen, whom I had met and gotten to know a bit. The E-Street Band was still forming and David Sancious was their pianist and Ernest Carter was the drummer.

 

Completely different musical experience than Genesis, but electrifying none the less.

 

As I recall, you don't like them either.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 4:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mike.dickson@gmail.com writes:

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'.  

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60  I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:15 AM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

Oddly, I have no doubt that you would have as well. I'm sure at the time, other people would have shared your view. I know my dad did. At the time, I didn't think it was idiotic. I thought the musicianship was incredible and the performance by Gabriel was different and exciting. I had seen plenty of Grateful Dead and CSN, James Taylor, Muddy Waters Michael Bloomfield, BB King, Credence... etc.

 

In 1973, the only other band that electrified me like that was Bruce Springsteen, whom I had met and gotten to know a bit. The E-Street Band was still forming and David Sancious was their pianist and Ernest Carter was the drummer.

 

Completely different musical experience than Genesis, but electrifying none the less.

 

As I recall, you don't like them either.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 4:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mike.dickson@gmail.com writes:

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'.  

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60  I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

 

I don’t doubt that Frank, it was awhile ago.

ARP Pro soloist was there, to be sure.

Still feel lucky to have seen “The Lamb”.

Tony

 

From: lsf5275@aol.com

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:18 AM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

 

More likely the organ, Tony, They had long since ditched the Mark II by the time they were touring TLLDOB.

 

Frank (too much shit to list)

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 9:49:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, atm655@verizon.net writes:

 

I saw “The Lamb” one month before Gabriel left in December 74, Auditorium Theatre Chicago, a 12,000 seat Venue.

Never having heard of them, I went with my friends on a whim and enjoyed them.

Knew about the Mellotron having already become a Tangerine Dream fan, recognized an M400 along with a large, organ like keyboard in white, a Mark II, I later found out. At 19 they sure had my full attention, and I found the theatrics unusual but amusing just the same.

 

Tony #510

 

From: lsf5275@aol.com

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:37 AM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60 I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

 

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

 

Surely somebody knows.

 

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

 

Ginowong@gmail.com

 

 

I was very impressed by it all at the time.  In those days if you weren’t different weren’t in the same changing world were were in. There were no vary lites and rear screen projection that didn’t nearly set you on fire,  a little glow in the dark paint around the eyes in a dark theatre came off as amazing in the moment.  I worked at the Tower in Phila and other venues and saw everything and I and the rest of the crew could be cynical but their shit worked. Even the southern rock dude on the crew who yelled "whipping post” at Joni Mitchell kept his mouth shut.

I would say you had to be there but I have seen Musical Box and their shit works too.

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:15 AM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

Oddly, I have no doubt that you would have as well. I'm sure at the time, other people would have shared your view. I know my dad did. At the time, I didn't think it was idiotic. I thought the musicianship was incredible and the performance by Gabriel was different and exciting. I had seen plenty of Grateful Dead and CSN, James Taylor, Muddy Waters Michael Bloomfield, BB King, Credence... etc.

 

In 1973, the only other band that electrified me like that was Bruce Springsteen, whom I had met and gotten to know a bit. The E-Street Band was still forming and David Sancious was their pianist and Ernest Carter was the drummer.

 

Completely different musical experience than Genesis, but electrifying none the less.

 

As I recall, you don't like them either.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 4:07:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mike.dickson@gmail.com writes:

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'.  

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

 

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

 

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

 

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

 

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

 

Looking back at now, at the age of 60  I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

 

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

 

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

 

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

 

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

 

I worked with a Gabriel era Genesis tribute act for several years.  They did the full show down to the theatrics. 

The audience loved it but it never did anything for me.  The music on the other hand was incredible IMHO and

I really enjoyed doing those shows.  The first time I saw Genesis live was on the “Seconds Out” tour which to

me was their peak even though Gabriel was already gone.  I have seen them once in the last ten years and they

performed well but it was kind of commercialized and starchy IMHO.  I have seen Gabriel live and enjoy his music

but hate his political ramblings between songs ( thing we talked about that before).  When I listen to Genesis it

it usually the live Seconds Out recording I choose.  I prefer to listen to live recordings of most groups when I can. 

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Dickson
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:07 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'.  

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

Looking back at now, at the age of 60  I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

 

I agree Gary, that isn’t part of the show I’m interested in.

They have right to express it, as I have the right to ignore it, and I try to do just that.

Tony

 

From: Gary Brumm

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:20 PM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

 

No not in 1973, I was talking about the Gabriel shows in the last decade.  In the 70’s it was all about the music as it

should be.  Now many performers feel the need to give political speeches and that is not what I paid for.  I really

don’t care what their “world view” is.  It’s just a sign of the times I guess….. The 60’ and 70’ were a great time for

shows.  Even though the technology for sound and lighting has been improved immensely I still miss the days of

oversized, under powered speakers at a huge outdoor venue with my favorite groups performing.  Those days are

gone forever unfortunately.  I remember a friend of mine telling me he had just seen Genesis at the Cow Palace in

San Francisco.  They were using a few Altec A7’s for the PA and the sound was awful but he said the band was incredible. 

Those were the days eh?

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:05 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I don't recall too much politics in 1973... just a bit of goofing on the British economy.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 12:43:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

 

I worked with a Gabriel era Genesis tribute act for several years.  They did the full show down to the theatrics. 

The audience loved it but it never did anything for me.  The music on the other hand was incredible IMHO and

I really enjoyed doing those shows.  The first time I saw Genesis live was on the “Seconds Out” tour which to

me was their peak even though Gabriel was already gone.  I have seen them once in the last ten years and they

performed well but it was kind of commercialized and starchy IMHO.  I have seen Gabriel live and enjoy his music

but hate his political ramblings between songs ( thing we talked about that before).  When I listen to Genesis it

it usually the live Seconds Out recording I choose.  I prefer to listen to live recordings of most groups when I can. 

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Dickson
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:07 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'. 

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

Looking back at now, at the age of 60 I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

 

….my posts can have that effect on people….sorry Frank!

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:34 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

my head hurts.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:32:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, atm655@verizon.net writes:

 

I agree Gary, that isn’t part of the show I’m interested in.

They have right to express it, as I have the right to ignore it, and I try to do just that.

Tony

From: Gary Brumm

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:20 PM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

No not in 1973, I was talking about the Gabriel shows in the last decade.  In the 70’s it was all about the music as it

should be.  Now many performers feel the need to give political speeches and that is not what I paid for.  I really

don’t care what their “world view” is.  It’s just a sign of the times I guess….. The 60’ and 70’ were a great time for

shows.  Even though the technology for sound and lighting has been improved immensely I still miss the days of

oversized, under powered speakers at a huge outdoor venue with my favorite groups performing.  Those days are

gone forever unfortunately.  I remember a friend of mine telling me he had just seen Genesis at the Cow Palace in

San Francisco.  They were using a few Altec A7’s for the PA and the sound was awful but he said the band was incredible. 

Those were the days eh?

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:05 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I don't recall too much politics in 1973... just a bit of goofing on the British economy.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 12:43:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

 

I worked with a Gabriel era Genesis tribute act for several years.  They did the full show down to the theatrics. 

The audience loved it but it never did anything for me.  The music on the other hand was incredible IMHO and

I really enjoyed doing those shows.  The first time I saw Genesis live was on the “Seconds Out” tour which to

me was their peak even though Gabriel was already gone.  I have seen them once in the last ten years and they

performed well but it was kind of commercialized and starchy IMHO.  I have seen Gabriel live and enjoy his music

but hate his political ramblings between songs ( thing we talked about that before).  When I listen to Genesis it

it usually the live Seconds Out recording I choose.  I prefer to listen to live recordings of most groups when I can. 

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Dickson
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:07 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'. 

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

Looking back at now, at the age of 60 I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

On 19 November 2012 18:46, Robert <rmrmax@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Mike,

Would you care to share with us some of the names of the musicians / groups you are referring to ?  Any style of music is fine with me.

Robert

From: Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:07 AM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank. 

Mike

This all smacks of musical snobbery to me.

 

Is it snobbery to say you like one thing and dislike another?  I'm not sure I've done anything other than say that.  Or is it just that I don't share your point of view?

This is all starting to reek of the Don Tillman view of 'if you don't like XXX then you're not one of us' that I thought this list was created to escape from. 

Mike

On 20 November 2012 10:03, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

That's an odd phrase coming from you.

 

In a message dated 11/20/2012 3:19:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mike.dickson@gmail.com writes:

This all smacks of musical snobbery to me.

 

Thanks very much Fritz!!

http://cargocollective.com/phosphorescentrecords 

On Nov 20, 2012, at 10:05 AM, <fdoddy@aol.com>

 <fdoddy@aol.com> wrote:

 

Y'all should check out Tom's website.  He's the real deal...no bullshit :>)

Remind us what it is Tom, please?

fritz

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
To: <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 'real people playing real instruments'

 

Including my own of course.....

On Nov 20, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Tom Doncourt wrote:

 

Nah, other peoples pompous bullshit doean't phase me :)

On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:30 AM, tron400 wrote:

 

Are we going to have to start yet another Mellotron group now? I'm in three of them as it is.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> Is it snobbery to say you like one thing and dislike another? I'm not sure
> I've done anything other than say that. Or is it just that I on't share
> your point of view?
>
> This is all starting to reek of the Don Tillman view of* 'if you don't like
> XXX then you're not one of us' *that I thought this list was created to
> escape from.
>
> Mike
>
> On 20 November 2012 10:03, <lsf5275@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > **
> > That's an odd phrase coming from you.
> >
> > In a message dated 11/20/2012 3:19:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > mike.dickson@... writes:
> >
> > This all smacks of musical snobbery to me.
> >
> >
> >
>

 

Try this ...lots `of idiotic nearly naked dancing and chamberlin :-)

http://youtu.be/aAGkcAadsgY

On Nov 20, 2012, at 10:05 AM, <fdoddy@aol.com>

 <fdoddy@aol.com> wrote:

 

Y'all should check out Tom's website.  He's the real deal...no bullshit :>)

Remind us what it is Tom, please?

fritz

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
To: <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 'real people playing real instruments'

 

Including my own of course.....

On Nov 20, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Tom Doncourt wrote:

 

Nah, other peoples pompous bullshit doean't phase me :)

On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:30 AM, tron400 wrote:

 

Are we going to have to start yet another Mellotron group now? I'm in three of them as it is.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> Is it snobbery to say you like one thing and dislike another? I'm not sure
> I've done anything other than say that. Or is it just that I on't share
> your point of view?
>
> This is all starting to reek of the Don Tillman view of* 'if you don't like
> XXX then you're not one of us' *that I thought this list was created to
> escape from.
>
> Mike
>
> On 20 November 2012 10:03, <lsf5275@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > **
> > That's an odd phrase coming from you.
> >
> > In a message dated 11/20/2012 3:19:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > mike.dickson@... writes:
> >
> > This all smacks of musical snobbery to me.
> >
> >
> >
>

 

mine too...... I love my job Frank but it can be weird and frustrating like anything else-still you would be perfect for it. I want it to be the way it was in the 30's and go on expedition!!

On Nov 20, 2012, at 11:41 AM, <lsf5275@aol.com>

 <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

These are a few of my favorite things...

 

In a message dated 11/20/2012 11:15:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

 

Try this ...lots `of idiotic nearly naked dancing and chamberlin :-)

http://youtu.be/aAGkcAadsgY

On Nov 20, 2012, at 10:05 AM, <fdoddy@aol.com>

 <fdoddy@aol.com> wrote:

 

Y'all should check out Tom's website.  He's the real deal...no bullshit :>)

Remind us what it is Tom, please?

fritz

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
To: <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Nov 20, 2012 9:56 am
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: 'real people playing real instruments'

 

Including my own of course.....

On Nov 20, 2012, at 9:14 AM, Tom Doncourt wrote:

 

Nah, other peoples pompous bullshit doean't phase me :)

On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:30 AM, tron400 wrote:

 

Are we going to have to start yet another Mellotron group now? I'm in three of them as it is.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@...> wrote:
>
> Is it snobbery to say you like one thing and dislike another? I'm not sure
> I've done anything other than say that. Or is it just that I on't share
> your point of view?
>
> This is all starting to reek of the Don Tillman view of* 'if you don't like
> XXX then you're not one of us' *that I thought this list was created to
> escape from.
>
> Mike
>
> On 20 November 2012 10:03, <lsf5275@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > **
> > That's an odd phrase coming from you.
> >
> > In a message dated 11/20/2012 3:19:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > mike.dickson@... writes:
> >
> > This all smacks of musical snobbery to me.
> >
> >
> >
>

 

Well put Tony.

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:32 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I agree Gary, that isn’t part of the show I’m interested in.

They have right to express it, as I have the right to ignore it, and I try to do just that.

Tony

From: Gary Brumm

Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:20 PM

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

No not in 1973, I was talking about the Gabriel shows in the last decade.  In the 70’s it was all about the music as it

should be.  Now many performers feel the need to give political speeches and that is not what I paid for.  I really

don’t care what their “world view” is.  It’s just a sign of the times I guess….. The 60’ and 70’ were a great time for

shows.  Even though the technology for sound and lighting has been improved immensely I still miss the days of

oversized, under powered speakers at a huge outdoor venue with my favorite groups performing.  Those days are

gone forever unfortunately.  I remember a friend of mine telling me he had just seen Genesis at the Cow Palace in

San Francisco.  They were using a few Altec A7’s for the PA and the sound was awful but he said the band was incredible. 

Those were the days eh?

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:05 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I don't recall too much politics in 1973... just a bit of goofing on the British economy.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 12:43:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gabru@comsec.net writes:

 

I worked with a Gabriel era Genesis tribute act for several years.  They did the full show down to the theatrics. 

The audience loved it but it never did anything for me.  The music on the other hand was incredible IMHO and

I really enjoyed doing those shows.  The first time I saw Genesis live was on the “Seconds Out” tour which to

me was their peak even though Gabriel was already gone.  I have seen them once in the last ten years and they

performed well but it was kind of commercialized and starchy IMHO.  I have seen Gabriel live and enjoy his music

but hate his political ramblings between songs ( thing we talked about that before).  When I listen to Genesis it

it usually the live Seconds Out recording I choose.  I prefer to listen to live recordings of most groups when I can. 

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Dickson
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:07 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

I've seen quite a few 'real people playing real instruments', Frank.  I don't have time for much else, really, even if I am having a hard time deciding what constitutes a 'real instrument'. 

My point is only that the whole spectacle looks idiotic.  I'm pretty sure I would have thought the same thing at age 20 as well.

Mike

On 19 November 2012 07:37, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

I remember seeing Genesis at the Tower theater in Philadelphia back in 1973. no Mark II but an M400. Mike might think the whole thing is silly, but for a 21 year old I was pretty impressionable. I LOVED IT! The first live concert I ever saw was outdoors on the Mall in DC. I don't think I was yet 16. It was Alice Cooper opening for Arthur Brown. Spring or summer of 1968. I didn't turn 16 until that November.

Alice Cooper came out in a pink dress. The band was called "Alice Cooper" at the time. I don't think Vince Furnier had adopted the name for himself yet. I was about 50 feet from the stage and I remember the guitarist (I think) at some point in the show had a giant Styrofoam fist that he slid up and down Vince's body (in the pink dress) until he spit some kind of white creamy fluid all over the people in front of the stage.

I freaked out. It was great stuff.

Then, after Alice Cooper left the stage, the back line guys swapped out the gear and the stage went dark... for about ten minutes. Suddenly there was a rumble after a few seconds, a voice in the dark screamed out..." I AM THE GOD OF HELL FIRE... AND I BRING YOU... FIRE. There was an explosion of light and this guy comes down down on a wire (Deus Ex Machina- only at the beginning instead of the end) with one arm extended outwards and the other holding a mic and HIS HEAD WAS ON FIRE. Well, at least that what I thought at first, but it was actually a helmet of some kind. I remember little else of that show, but that much, I will never forget.

I saw lots of concerts after that but nothing that approached the wonder and surprise until 1973 at the Tower. I saw Gabriel era Genesis twice more after that also in Philadelphia and was fortunate enough to be 4th row center at the Civic Center for The Lamb show.

Looking back at now, at the age of 60 I still get a sense of what I felt back then. And over the years, having seen The Musical Box recreate these shows, as good at it as they are (were) Nothing can touch the memories of those shows when I was that age.

So make fun of it if you will, Mike... I pity you for having missed it. Real people playing real instruments.

In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:30:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, pocotron@yahoo.com writes:

 

Hi all-

   In listening to the "Watcher" intro, one can hear the brass/violins mix, but the brass sounds a bit like the "Brass B" recording to me.  Later on, in "Dancing with the Moonlight Knight", the violins are alone.  A choir can also be heard by itself elswhere (I forget where) in the concert.  I have to assume the frame was loaded with Brass B, 3 Violins (probably M400 Violins) and 8 Choir.

   -Bruce D.

  

From: gino wong <wonggster@gmail.com>
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Genesis Live 1973

 

So they doubled the organ with the 400 strings ?  

I guess they had to do something when they went from many to three sounds.

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 4:26 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

 

They began using the organ instead of the bass accordion .

In a message dated 11/18/2012 2:34:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wonggster@gmail.com writes:

I think they were using an M 400 in the studio by the time of Selling England....  I do wonder how they accounted for the difference in sound between the Mk2 strings and the bass accordion for Watcher which was a big part of their show for a long time. Did they have special tapes or did they just roll with what was around.

Surely somebody knows.

--

Gino Wong Birgelo

BSComm, BSEE,

ReRED Recording, Analog Sound Design

Audio Mastering, Recording & Restoration, Logistics

Ginowong@gmail.com

--
Mike Dickson, Edinburgh

 

On 20 November 2012 15:35, <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

I don't think any of this discussion has tilted toward the falsely stated (highlighted) Don Tillman viewpoint below. MY point in this sentence, right now is that I think you pissed Don off until he couldn't stand you anymore.

I think Don set himself up to be pissed off, mostly because he had cows too sacred to be discussed, let alone criticised.

 

I believe that the reason this group exists is because the folks here that used to be there did not agree that he should have done that, regardless of how much you rubbed him the wrong way. That's originally why I left the old group and came here.

Great.  We're all happy, then.

Mike