The Mellotron Group

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
> http://balduin.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/mellotron-m4000d/
>

From: lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 6:42 AM

Well it isn't a real Mellotron any more than a Memotron is.

In a message dated 7/13/2011 7:07:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tron400@yahoo.com writes:

"The machine is built by Markus Resch, who also build real Mellotrons since 1999 (Mark VI & VII)."

That's a strange statement. It's like they're saying the M4000D isn't a real Mellotron.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
> http://balduin.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/mellotron-m4000d/
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Bruce Daily

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 1:43 PM

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

...And your Minimoog is just going to fall right off the back!

(But they will probably supply a special support bracket, at a nominal fee, for just that purpose)

-Bruce D.

--- On Wed, 7/13/11, lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

From: lsf5275@aol.com <lsf5275@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 6:42 AM

Well it isn't a real Mellotron any more than a Memotron is.

In a message dated 7/13/2011 7:07:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tron400@yahoo.com writes:

"The machine is built by Markus Resch, who also build real Mellotrons since 1999 (Mark VI & VII)."

That's a strange statement. It's like they're saying the M4000D isn't a real Mellotron.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
> http://balduin.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/mellotron-m4000d/
>

On 12/07/2011 14:49, Charles wrote:

http://balduin.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/mellotron-m4000d/

On 13/07/2011 12:06, tron400 wrote:

"The machine is built by Markus Resch, who also build real Mellotrons since 1999 (Mark VI & VII)."

That's a strange statement. It's like they're saying the M4000D isn't a real Mellotron.

Bernie

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:

Is this true? Does anyone actually have a 'touch sensitive Mellotron' here? I'd have thought for that to be the case the instrument would have to be very badly adjusted in the first place.

Mike

--

john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*

*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

On 13/07/2011 19:00, Tony wrote:

Another reason a real Mellotron is better than the digital gadget, in my opinion.

I have said this before and will say it again. It is not the 'digital' business that makes it good or bad - after all, that is just a recording mechanism like tape - a means to an end. However, it's the tampering that people feel compelled to do with the digital recordings that bothers me. Interpolating. Noise reduction. Tuning. EQing. Normalising.

So far I have found no one anywhere who has just recorded the instrument 'as is' and left it like that, warts and all. 'Honesty' aside, it would just sound better.

Mike

On 13/07/2011 21:44, Charles wrote:

Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?

You have utterly and completely missed the point. Have a look at what I said again.


Mike

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
>
> do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> >
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
> so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's idea of how it should sound.
> I just don't get it, I guess.
>
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> > >
> >
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@...> wrote:
>
> so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's idea of how it should sound.
> I just don't get it, I guess.
>
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> > >
> >
>

On 14/07/2011 16:51, Chris Dale wrote:

That's why I prefer the real thing to samples - because someone else has decided what it's supposed to sound like, and it never quite sounds or feels right to me, not enough anyway.

I agree entirely.

No two people can hear things identically (if you believe in the laws of physics) so perhaps it's all a mute point.

That's actually 'moot' point. :-)

<<images[4].jpg>> <<untitled.bmp>>

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 3:38 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

Mute point?

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Dickson

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 3:58 PM

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

On 13/07/2011 19:00, Tony wrote:

Another reason a real Mellotron is better than the digital gadget, in my opinion.

I have said this before and will say it again. It is not the 'digital' business that makes it good or bad - after all, that is just a recording mechanism like tape - a means to an end. However, it's the tampering that people feel compelled to do with the digital recordings that bothers me. Interpolating. Noise reduction. Tuning. EQing. Normalising.

So far I have found no one anywhere who has just recorded the instrument 'as is' and left it like that, warts and all. 'Honesty' aside, it would just sound better.

Mike

On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 4:57 AM, Mike Dickson <mike.dickson@gmail.com> wrote:

so perhaps it's all a mute point.

That's actually 'moot' point. :-)

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> The last frame I bought was tuned M400 Violins/Flute/Cello. It's true that the Violins were Eq'd for the M400, but they were EQ'd by Streetly. I don't know if the other sounds were EQ'd. But since they're Streetly tapes, I know they're as close as you can get to what a Mellotron should "sound like".
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think the M4000D could be a good alternative to tapes. I'd like to try one, but I know I would still prefer tapes played via an electromechanical object.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's idea of how it should sound.
> > I just don't get it, I guess.
> >
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> The last frame I bought was tuned M400 Violins/Flute/Cello. It's true that the Violins were Eq'd for the M400, but they were EQ'd by Streetly. I don't know if the other sounds were EQ'd. But since they're Streetly tapes, I know they're as close as you can get to what a Mellotron should "sound like".
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think the M4000D could be a good alternative to tapes. I'd like to try one, but I know I would still prefer tapes played via an electromechanical object.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's idea of how it should sound.
> > I just don't get it, I guess.
> >
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@yahoo.com> wrote:

some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)

--

john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*

*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:36 PM, john barrick <barrickjohn262@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@yahoo.com> wrote:

some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)

--

john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*

*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

--

john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*

*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

----- Original Message -----

From: john barrick

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 1:36 PM

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@yahoo.com> wrote:

some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)

--

john barrick

*Leo got it right the first time*

*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros <tronbros@...> wrote:
>
> Just back from holiday and have read the discussion WHICH WE WON'T BE ENTERING. We meet our customers' requirements 99.9% of the time and have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience. Nothing is too sacrosanct whatever the group thinks.
>
> Best,
>
> M
>
> mellotronics.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 18 Jul 2011, at 18:36, john barrick <barrickjohn262@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@...> wrote:
> >
> > some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)
> >
> > --
> > john barrick
> >
> > *Leo got it right the first time*
> > *then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
> >
> >
>

On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:40 PM, feline1973 wrote:

Sounds like you just entered it, pretty decisively, for the "have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience" camp :)

In any case, I don't know what "messing" (if any) has been done on the M4000D, but I bet it's a better experience that waiting 6 minutes for the Pindertron CD to load in my Akai!

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros <tronbros@...> wrote:
>
> Just back from holiday and have read the discussion WHICH WE WON'T BE ENTERING. We meet our customers' requirements 99.9% of the time and have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience. Nothing is too sacrosanct whatever the group thinks.
>
> Best,
>
> M
>
> mellotronics.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 18 Jul 2011, at 18:36, john barrick <barrickjohn262@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@...> wrote:
> >
> > some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)
> >
> > --
> > john barrick
> >
> > *Leo got it right the first time*
> > *then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
> >
> >
>

Markus intentionally sends the frames with too much tape. Insert the frame and take the slack out of the tapes at the front of the frame after carefully making sure the attack on each is set properly at the heads. Tension a single tape until you get 9 seconds at proper pitch and then set all of the others to match it. You should have no further problems.

In a message dated 7/19/2011 1:51:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

I bought a tape frame from Markus awhile ago. The tapes never return properly. I don't know if it is extra length of the frame , the springs (they are more lax) or the roller return assemblies. Any one have any experience with these things?

On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:40 PM, feline1973 wrote:

Sounds like you just entered it, pretty decisively, for the "have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience" camp :)

In any case, I don't know what "messing" (if any) has been done on the M4000D, but I bet it's a better experience that waiting 6 minutes for the Pindertron CD to load in my Akai!

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros <tronbros@...> wrote:
>
> Just back from holiday and have read the discussion WHICH WE WON'T BE ENTERING. We meet our customers' requirements 99.9% of the time and have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience. Nothing is too sacrosanct whatever the group thinks.
>
> Best,
>
> M
>
> mellotronics.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 18 Jul 2011, at 18:36, john barrick <barrickjohn262@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@...> wrote:
> >
> > some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)
> >
> > --
> > john barrick
> >
> > *Leo got it right the first time*
> > *then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
> >
> >
>

Markus intentionally sends the frames with too much tape. Insert the frame and take the slack out of the tapes at the front of the frame after carefully making sure the attack on each is set properly at the heads. Tension a single tape until you get 9 seconds at proper pitch and then set all of the others to match it. You should have no further problems.

In a message dated 7/19/2011 1:51:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

I bought a tape frame from Markus awhile ago. The tapes never return properly. I don't know if it is extra length of the frame , the springs (they are more lax) or the roller return assemblies. Any one have any experience with these things?

On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:40 PM, feline1973 wrote:

Sounds like you just entered it, pretty decisively, for the "have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience" camp :)

In any case, I don't know what "messing" (if any) has been done on the M4000D, but I bet it's a better experience that waiting 6 minutes for the Pindertron CD to load in my Akai!

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros <tronbros@...> wrote:
>
> Just back from holiday and have read the discussion WHICH WE WON'T BE ENTERING. We meet our customers' requirements 99.9% of the time and have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience. Nothing is too sacrosanct whatever the group thinks.
>
> Best,
>
> M
>
> mellotronics.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 18 Jul 2011, at 18:36, john barrick <barrickjohn262@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@...> wrote:
> >
> > some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)
> >
> > --
> > john barrick
> >
> > *Leo got it right the first time*
> > *then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
> >
> >
>

On Jul 19, 2011, at 2:32 PM, tronbros wrote:

or even a HEAVY action!

mellotronics.co.uk

On 19 Jul 2011, at 19:08, lsf5275@aol.com wrote:

Markus intentionally sends the frames with too much tape. Insert the frame and take the slack out of the tapes at the front of the frame after carefully making sure the attack on each is set properly at the heads. Tension a single tape until you get 9 seconds at proper pitch and then set all of the others to match it. You should have no further problems.

In a message dated 7/19/2011 1:51:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

I bought a tape frame from Markus awhile ago. The tapes never return properly. I don't know if it is extra length of the frame , the springs (they are more lax) or the roller return assemblies. Any one have any experience with these things?

On Jul 19, 2011, at 1:40 PM, feline1973 wrote:

Sounds like you just entered it, pretty decisively, for the "have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience" camp :)

In any case, I don't know what "messing" (if any) has been done on the M4000D, but I bet it's a better experience that waiting 6 minutes for the Pindertron CD to load in my Akai!

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, tronbros <tronbros@...> wrote:
>
> Just back from holiday and have read the discussion WHICH WE WON'T BE ENTERING. We meet our customers' requirements 99.9% of the time and have been known to 'mess' if it improves the overall experience. Nothing is too sacrosanct whatever the group thinks.
>
> Best,
>
> M
>
> mellotronics.co.uk
>
>
>
> On 18 Jul 2011, at 18:36, john barrick <barrickjohn262@...> wrote:
>
> > I'm not protesting - I just have a preference for a real Mellotron. If you want to use samples that's fine by me. I think we can co-exist peacefully and productively.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Charles <charel196@...> wrote:
> >
> > some guys remind me of horse & buggy owners protesting the automobile.:)
> >
> > --
> > john barrick
> >
> > *Leo got it right the first time*
> > *then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
> >
> >
>

> I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> (as
> I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> better the
> machine plays. Period.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tomdcour@amnh.org writes:
>
> Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> same
> stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> something
> to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
>
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
>
> The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning, was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
>
> I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's idea of how it should sound.
> > I just don't get it, I guess.
> >
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should fundamentally sound.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal he would have used tapes?
> > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the lineage and deserves the name.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:

Thomas-

Here's a thought. Maybe the frame isn't centered with the tape guides at the front of the headblock. On the Streetly frames one can loosen two assembly bolts near each end of the top, and jog the assembly left & right a bit to make the tapes line up with the guides. I trust Markus' frames are similar. A non-square frame will cause friction difficulties, too.

-Bruce Daily

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org> wrote:

From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 7:24 PM

Thanks Frank, that makes me hopefull-maybe with a little more futzing I'll
get the frame to run right. There are some sounds on it that I would like
to be using more.

> I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> (as
> I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> better the
> machine plays. Period.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tomdcour@amnh.org writes:
>
> Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> same
> stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> something
> to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
>
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce- that could very possibly be at least part of the problem--I have difficulty lining up the frame and screwing it in completely, I'll look at that-Thanks! Glad to hear that others have had no problems-would hate to have to scrap the frame! TD
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:
>
> >
> > Thomas-
> > Here's a thought. Maybe the frame isn't centered with the tape guides at the front of the headblock. On the Streetly frames one can loosen two assembly bolts near each end of the top, and jog the assembly left & right a bit to make the tapes line up with the guides. I trust Markus' frames are similar. A non-square frame will cause friction difficulties, too.
> >
> > -Bruce Daily
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 7/19/11, Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@...>
> > Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 7:24 PM
> >
> >
> > Thanks Frank, that makes me hopefull-maybe with a little more futzing I'll
> > get the frame to run right. There are some sounds on it that I would like
> > to be using more.
> >
> > > I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> > > many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> > > (as
> > > I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> > > personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> > > better the
> > > machine plays. Period.
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > tomdcour@... writes:
> > >
> > > Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> > > slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> > > same
> > > stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> > > something
> > > to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Charles

To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:19 AM

Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?

with all these frame & tape stock problems...you guys still don't think an M4000D might be better?

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@...> wrote:
>
> Bruce- that could very possibly be at least part of the problem--I have difficulty lining up the frame and screwing it in completely, I'll look at that-Thanks! Glad to hear that others have had no problems-would hate to have to scrap the frame! TD
> On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:
>
> >
> > Thomas-
> > Here's a thought. Maybe the frame isn't centered with the tape guides at the front of the headblock. On the Streetly frames one can loosen two assembly bolts near each end of the top, and jog the assembly left & right a bit to make the tapes line up with the guides. I trust Markus' frames are similar. A non-square frame will cause friction difficulties, too.
> >
> > -Bruce Daily
> >
> >
> > --- On Tue, 7/19/11, Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@...> wrote:
> >
> > From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@...>
> > Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 7:24 PM
> >
> >
> > Thanks Frank, that makes me hopefull-maybe with a little more futzing I'll
> > get the frame to run right. There are some sounds on it that I would like
> > to be using more.
> >
> > > I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> > > many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> > > (as
> > > I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> > > personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> > > better the
> > > machine plays. Period.
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > tomdcour@... writes:
> > >
> > > Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> > > slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> > > same
> > > stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> > > something
> > > to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, lsf5275@... wrote:
>
> You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> to them.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tron400@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
>
> The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
>
> I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> idea of how it should sound.
> > I just don't get it, I guess.
> >
> >
> > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> fundamentally sound.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> he would have used tapes?
> > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> lineage and deserves the name.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Jul 20, 2011, at 12:22 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

Tom,

Sometimes Markus will send the frame out with 5mm thumb screws instead off BA screws. You will need to retap the thumb screw holes with a 5mm tap. Not to worry, though, they will still work just fine with the BA thumb screws on your other frames. Just be sure to check the tap against the thumb screw to make sure the thread call out is the same. 5mm taps/dies usually offer two or more thread count options. just press the threads of the tap against those on the thumb screw to make sure they line up to be sure.

Frank

In a message dated 7/20/2011 9:02:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

Bruce- that could very possibly be at least part of the problem--I have difficulty lining up the frame and screwing it in completely, I'll look at that-Thanks! Glad to hear that others have had no problems-would hate to have to scrap the frame! TD

On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:

Thomas-

Here's a thought. Maybe the frame isn't centered with the tape guides at the front of the headblock. On the Streetly frames one can loosen two assembly bolts near each end of the top, and jog the assembly left & right a bit to make the tapes line up with the guides. I trust Markus' frames are similar. A non-square frame will cause friction difficulties, too.

-Bruce Daily

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org> wrote:

From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 7:24 PM

Thanks Frank, that makes me hopefull-maybe with a little more futzing I'll
get the frame to run right. There are some sounds on it that I would like
to be using more.

> I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> (as
> I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> better the
> machine plays. Period.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tomdcour@amnh.org writes:
>
> Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> same
> stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> something
> to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
>
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, lsf5275@... wrote:
>
> I haven't received it yet.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/20/2011 6:53:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tron400@... writes:
>
> Well, this message was only 5 days late (!).
>

On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Gary Brumm wrote:

I think it can possibly be compared to the old exotic sports car. You can buy a new car today that performs not only better but

is reliable as well…..however the driving experience is not duplicated…the smell of burning oil, the sound of the engine, etc.

I really enjoyed driving the old Ferraris but if I was looking for the ultimate performance as well as something I could drive

everyday it would not be my choice. I think Tony would understand this as he is both a Mellotron and Exotic car guy. What

makes one “better” than the other is subjective but in a mix after processing in the recording process I thing 99.9% of listeners

would be unable to tell the difference. Some of those that might be able to tell are on this list but even they would probably

be guessing to some extent. There is still enough of a market to support two Mellotron manufacturers although the price is

high and I would venture to guess the number sold is low. In low numbers the price is necessarily high….Imagine if someone

tried to manufacture B3s today….I am sure some could be sold but the price would be staggering. …..my 2 cents….fire away!

J

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of lsf5275@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:37 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

That's hardly the point. I'm not saying that samplers (ROMplers) have no place, I'm saying that they lack the character that a real Mellotron has. The real thing is far more organic. I like my records, tapes and CDs. I have perhaps a thousand or more recorded live performances. I enjoy them too. but once recorded, they sound the same every time I play them. Playing a CD has nothing to do with making music. Playing an instrument does, whether it is a M4000d or a M4000 or an M400. I prefer the latter.

In a message dated 7/20/2011 12:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, feline1@feline1.co.uk writes:

Yeah,
and I bet you never buy records or CDs,
cos they sound the same every time you play them -
it's kinda lacking in soul compared to going to a gig.

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, lsf5275@... wrote:
>
> You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> to them.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tron400@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
>
> The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
>
> I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> >
> > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> idea of how it should sound.
> > I just don't get it, I guess.
> >
> >
> > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> fundamentally sound.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> he would have used tapes?
> > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> lineage and deserves the name.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- On Wed, 7/20/11, Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org> wrote:

From: Tom Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 20, 2011, 12:34 PM

Frank- that makes sense- I've never been able to screw the thumbscrews all the way in !! Again thanks! TD

On Jul 20, 2011, at 12:22 PM, <lsf5275@aol.com> <lsf5275@aol.com> wrote:

Tom,

Sometimes Markus will send the frame out with 5mm thumb screws instead off BA screws. You will need to retap the thumb screw holes with a 5mm tap. Not to worry, though, they will still work just fine with the BA thumb screws on your other frames. Just be sure to check the tap against the thumb screw to make sure the thread call out is the same. 5mm taps/dies usually offer two or more thread count options. just press the threads of the tap against those on the thumb screw to make sure they line up to be sure.

Frank

In a message dated 7/20/2011 9:02:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tomdcour@amnh.org writes:

Bruce- that could very possibly be at least part of the problem--I have difficulty lining up the frame and screwing it in completely, I'll look at that-Thanks! Glad to hear that others have had no problems-would hate to have to scrap the frame! TD

On Jul 20, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Bruce Daily wrote:

Thomas-

Here's a thought. Maybe the frame isn't centered with the tape guides at the front of the headblock. On the Streetly frames one can loosen two assembly bolts near each end of the top, and jog the assembly left & right a bit to make the tapes line up with the guides. I trust Markus' frames are similar. A non-square frame will cause friction difficulties, too.

-Bruce Daily

--- On Tue, 7/19/11, Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org> wrote:

From: Thomas C. Doncourt <tomdcour@amnh.org>
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: MVI tape frames?
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, July 19, 2011, 7:24 PM

Thanks Frank, that makes me hopefull-maybe with a little more futzing I'll
get the frame to run right. There are some sounds on it that I would like
to be using more.

> I've had two of Markus's frames over the last few years. I've used them in
> many different Trons and have passed them along to others in this group
> (as
> I recall) I never had problems. I do prefer the Streetly frames
> personally, because I live the turnbuckles. The lower the friction the
> better the
> machine plays. Period.
>
>
> In a message dated 7/19/2011 2:36:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tomdcour@amnh.org writes:
>
> Thanks Gentlemen- actually I put the tapes in myself and did take out
> slack-still sticking. I also installed another set of his tapes from the
> same
> stock in a Streetly frame ---they do not stick. Pretty sure it has
> something
> to do with the MVI frame....Maybe replace the springs?
>
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Gary Brumm <gabru@...> wrote:
>
> No tonewheels this time….sample/modeling just like the XK models…….
> I think it would cost a lot more to tool up for tonewheels….heck its already like 20k for the “new B3”…….
> …Although through a 122 Leslie it sounds pretty damn good!
>
> g
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Wright
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Hammond Suzuki is making the B3 again.
>
> http://www.hammondorganco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=119
>
> But, it doesn’t sound like the original!
>
> 8-)
>
> John
> #911
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of Gary Brumm
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:07 PM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> I think it can possibly be compared to the old exotic sports car. You can buy a new car today that performs not only better but
> is reliable as well…..however the driving experience is not duplicated…the smell of burning oil, the sound of the engine, etc.
> I really enjoyed driving the old Ferraris but if I was looking for the ultimate performance as well as something I could drive
> everyday it would not be my choice. I think Tony would understand this as he is both a Mellotron and Exotic car guy. What
> makes one “better” than the other is subjective but in a mix after processing in the recording process I thing 99.9% of listeners
> would be unable to tell the difference. Some of those that might be able to tell are on this list but even they would probably
> be guessing to some extent. There is still enough of a market to support two Mellotron manufacturers although the price is
> high and I would venture to guess the number sold is low. In low numbers the price is necessarily high….Imagine if someone
> tried to manufacture B3s today….I am sure some could be sold but the price would be staggering. …..my 2 cents….fire away!
>
> ☺
>
> Gary
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of lsf5275@...<mailto:lsf5275@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:37 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> That's hardly the point. I'm not saying that samplers (ROMplers) have no place, I'm saying that they lack the character that a real Mellotron has. The real thing is far more organic. I like my records, tapes and CDs. I have perhaps a thousand or more recorded live performances. I enjoy them too. but once recorded, they sound the same every time I play them. Playing a CD has nothing to do with making music. Playing an instrument does, whether it is a M4000d or a M4000 or an M400. I prefer the latter.
>
> In a message dated 7/20/2011 12:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, feline1@...<mailto:feline1@...> writes:
>
>
> Yeah,
> and I bet you never buy records or CDs,
> cos they sound the same every time you play them -
> it's kinda lacking in soul compared to going to a gig.
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, lsf5275@ wrote:
> >
> > You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> > ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> > character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> > frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> > Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> > but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> > replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> > except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> > concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> > to them.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > tron400@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
> >
> > The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> > Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> > was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
> >
> > I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> > practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> > good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> > accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > >
> > > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> > fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> > with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> > idea of how it should sound.
> > > I just don't get it, I guess.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> > it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> > fundamentally sound.
> > > >
> > > > Bernie
> > > >
> > > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> > sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> > years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> > system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> > he would have used tapes?
> > > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> > hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> > lineage and deserves the name.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Gary Brumm wrote:

Hi Bernie,

The older Hammond cloned used long samples…I think the XK series uses “VASE” tonewheel generator modeling….I could be wrong.

The real difference is the XK series doesn’t have the 9 bar contacts in the keyboard…the “New B3” does. The XK series is a much better deal $ wise.

I had the XK-3 and now have an XK-3c. I have had several of the Motion Sound products and they never sounded right. Try one through

a Ventilator and you will get rid of the MS stuff. I built an interface cable for the 11 pin Leslie output so I have control through the keyboard.

The Ventilator will make your XK-3 sound great and give you an overdrive sound much better than the internal tube preamp. For $500 US it

is a 122 Leslie in a stomp box package. It will give a B3/122 a run for the money. My only real complaint about the XK is the Vibrato/Chorus

is not quite right…it is improved in the “c” model but still not quite there. I’ve owned and traveled with several C3/B3 122 combos but those

days are over. I still have an M3 in my living room though…. J.

Cheers,

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tron400
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:49 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

Hammond uses modeling? I thought they just used long samples. I do like the sound of my XK3 (not C) through my Motion Sound Pro-145. Still, not quite the same as my old B3/122.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Gary Brumm <gabru@...> wrote:
>
> No tonewheels this time….sample/modeling just like the XK models…….
> I think it would cost a lot more to tool up for tonewheels….heck its already like 20k for the “new B3”…….
> …Although through a 122 Leslie it sounds pretty damn good!
>
> g
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Wright
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Hammond Suzuki is making the B3 again.
>
> http://www.hammondorganco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=119
>
> But, it doesn’t sound like the original!
>
> 8-)
>
> John
> #911
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of Gary Brumm
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:07 PM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> I think it can possibly be compared to the old exotic sports car. You can buy a new car today that performs not only better but
> is reliable as well…..however the driving experience is not duplicated…the smell of burning oil, the sound of the engine, etc.
> I really enjoyed driving the old Ferraris but if I was looking for the ultimate performance as well as something I could drive
> everyday it would not be my choice. I think Tony would understand this as he is both a Mellotron and Exotic car guy. What
> makes one “better” than the other is subjective but in a mix after processing in the recording process I thing 99.9% of listeners
> would be unable to tell the difference. Some of those that might be able to tell are on this list but even they would probably
> be guessing to some extent. There is still enough of a market to support two Mellotron manufacturers although the price is
> high and I would venture to guess the number sold is low. In low numbers the price is necessarily high….Imagine if someone
> tried to manufacture B3s today….I am sure some could be sold but the price would be staggering. …..my 2 cents….fire away!
>
> ☺
>
> Gary
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of lsf5275@...<mailto:lsf5275@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:37 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> That's hardly the point. I'm not saying that samplers (ROMplers) have no place, I'm saying that they lack the character that a real Mellotron has. The real thing is far more organic. I like my records, tapes and CDs. I have perhaps a thousand or more recorded live performances. I enjoy them too. but once recorded, they sound the same every time I play them. Playing a CD has nothing to do with making music. Playing an instrument does, whether it is a M4000d or a M4000 or an M400. I prefer the latter.
>
> In a message dated 7/20/2011 12:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, feline1@...<mailto:feline1@...> writes:
>
>
> Yeah,
> and I bet you never buy records or CDs,
> cos they sound the same every time you play them -
> it's kinda lacking in soul compared to going to a gig.
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, lsf5275@ wrote:
> >
> > You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> > ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> > character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> > frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> > Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> > but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> > replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> > except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> > concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> > to them.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > tron400@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
> >
> > The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> > Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> > was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
> >
> > I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> > practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> > good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> > accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > >
> > > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> > fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> > with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> > idea of how it should sound.
> > > I just don't get it, I guess.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> > it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> > fundamentally sound.
> > > >
> > > > Bernie
> > > >
> > > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> > sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> > years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> > system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> > he would have used tapes?
> > > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> > hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> > lineage and deserves the name.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Gary Brumm <gabru@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bernie,
>
> The older Hammond cloned used long samples…I think the XK series uses “VASE” tonewheel generator modeling….I could be wrong.
> The real difference is the XK series doesn’t have the 9 bar contacts in the keyboard…the “New B3” does. The XK series is a much better deal $ wise.
> I had the XK-3 and now have an XK-3c. I have had several of the Motion Sound products and they never sounded right. Try one through
> a Ventilator and you will get rid of the MS stuff. I built an interface cable for the 11 pin Leslie output so I have control through the keyboard.
> The Ventilator will make your XK-3 sound great and give you an overdrive sound much better than the internal tube preamp. For $500 US it
> is a 122 Leslie in a stomp box package. It will give a B3/122 a run for the money. My only real complaint about the XK is the Vibrato/Chorus
> is not quite right…it is improved in the “c” model but still not quite there. I’ve owned and traveled with several C3/B3 122 combos but those
> days are over. I still have an M3 in my living room though…. ☺.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gary
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tron400
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:49 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
>
> Hammond uses modeling? I thought they just used long samples. I do like the sound of my XK3 (not C) through my Motion Sound Pro-145. Still, not quite the same as my old B3/122.
>
> Bernie
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, Gary Brumm <gabru@<mailto:gabru@>> wrote:
> >
> > No tonewheels this time….sample/modeling just like the XK models…….
> > I think it would cost a lot more to tool up for tonewheels….heck its already like 20k for the â€Å"new B3”…….
> > …Although through a 122 Leslie it sounds pretty damn good!
> >
> > g
> >
> >
> > From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of John Wright
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:51 AM
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
> >
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> > Hammond Suzuki is making the B3 again.
> >
> > http://www.hammondorganco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=119
> >
> > But, it doesn’t sound like the original!
> >
> > 8-)
> >
> > John
> > #911
> >
> > From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>]> On Behalf Of Gary Brumm
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:07 PM
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
> >
> >
> > I think it can possibly be compared to the old exotic sports car. You can buy a new car today that performs not only better but
> > is reliable as well…..however the driving experience is not duplicated…the smell of burning oil, the sound of the engine, etc.
> > I really enjoyed driving the old Ferraris but if I was looking for the ultimate performance as well as something I could drive
> > everyday it would not be my choice. I think Tony would understand this as he is both a Mellotron and Exotic car guy. What
> > makes one â€Å"better” than the other is subjective but in a mix after processing in the recording process I thing 99.9% of listeners
> > would be unable to tell the difference. Some of those that might be able to tell are on this list but even they would probably
> > be guessing to some extent. There is still enough of a market to support two Mellotron manufacturers although the price is
> > high and I would venture to guess the number sold is low. In low numbers the price is necessarily high….Imagine if someone
> > tried to manufacture B3s today….I am sure some could be sold but the price would be staggering. …..my 2 cents….fire away!
> >
> > ☺
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>]> On Behalf Of lsf5275@<mailto:lsf5275@<mailto:lsf5275@%3cmailto:lsf5275@>...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:37 AM
> > To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
> >
> >
> > That's hardly the point. I'm not saying that samplers (ROMplers) have no place, I'm saying that they lack the character that a real Mellotron has. The real thing is far more organic. I like my records, tapes and CDs. I have perhaps a thousand or more recorded live performances. I enjoy them too. but once recorded, they sound the same every time I play them. Playing a CD has nothing to do with making music. Playing an instrument does, whether it is a M4000d or a M4000 or an M400. I prefer the latter.
> >
> > In a message dated 7/20/2011 12:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, feline1@<mailto:feline1@<mailto:feline1@%3cmailto:feline1@>...> writes:
> >
> >
> > Yeah,
> > and I bet you never buy records or CDs,
> > cos they sound the same every time you play them -
> > it's kinda lacking in soul compared to going to a gig.
> >
> > --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, lsf5275@ wrote:
> > >
> > > You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> > > ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> > > character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> > > frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> > > Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> > > but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> > > replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> > > except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> > > concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> > > to them.
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > tron400@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
> > >
> > > The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> > > Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> > > was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
> > >
> > > I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> > > practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> > > good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> > > accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> > > fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> > > with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > > > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> > > idea of how it should sound.
> > > > I just don't get it, I guess.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> > > it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> > > fundamentally sound.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bernie
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> > > sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> > > years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> > > system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> > > he would have used tapes?
> > > > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> > > hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> > > lineage and deserves the name.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Gary Brumm wrote:

Hi Tom,

Yeah but those short keyboards bother me…..although as a Mellotron owner you probably don’t notice J

Cheers!

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Doncourt
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:00 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

Hail the M3!! My 55 sounds as good to me as anything

On Jul 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, Gary Brumm wrote:

Hi Bernie,

The older Hammond cloned used long samples…I think the XK series uses “VASE” tonewheel generator modeling….I could be wrong.

The real difference is the XK series doesn’t have the 9 bar contacts in the keyboard…the “New B3” does. The XK series is a much better deal $ wise.

I had the XK-3 and now have an XK-3c. I have had several of the Motion Sound products and they never sounded right. Try one through

a Ventilator and you will get rid of the MS stuff. I built an interface cable for the 11 pin Leslie output so I have control through the keyboard.

The Ventilator will make your XK-3 sound great and give you an overdrive sound much better than the internal tube preamp. For $500 US it

is a 122 Leslie in a stomp box package. It will give a B3/122 a run for the money. My only real complaint about the XK is the Vibrato/Chorus

is not quite right…it is improved in the “c” model but still not quite there. I’ve owned and traveled with several C3/B3 122 combos but those

days are over. I still have an M3 in my living room though…. J.

Cheers,

Gary

From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tron400
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:49 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos

Hammond uses modeling? I thought they just used long samples. I do like the sound of my XK3 (not C) through my Motion Sound Pro-145. Still, not quite the same as my old B3/122.

Bernie

--- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com, Gary Brumm <gabru@...> wrote:
>
> No tonewheels this time….sample/modeling just like the XK models…….
> I think it would cost a lot more to tool up for tonewheels….heck its already like 20k for the “new B3”…….
> …Although through a 122 Leslie it sounds pretty damn good!
>
> g
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Wright
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:51 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> Hammond Suzuki is making the B3 again.
>
> http://www.hammondorganco.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=119
>
> But, it doesn’t sound like the original!
>
> 8-)
>
> John
> #911
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of Gary Brumm
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:07 PM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> I think it can possibly be compared to the old exotic sports car. You can buy a new car today that performs not only better but
> is reliable as well…..however the driving experience is not duplicated…the smell of burning oil, the sound of the engine, etc.
> I really enjoyed driving the old Ferraris but if I was looking for the ultimate performance as well as something I could drive
> everyday it would not be my choice. I think Tony would understand this as he is both a Mellotron and Exotic car guy. What
> makes one “better” than the other is subjective but in a mix after processing in the recording process I thing 99.9% of listeners
> would be unable to tell the difference. Some of those that might be able to tell are on this list but even they would probably
> be guessing to some extent. There is still enough of a market to support two Mellotron manufacturers although the price is
> high and I would venture to guess the number sold is low. In low numbers the price is necessarily high….Imagine if someone
> tried to manufacture B3s today….I am sure some could be sold but the price would be staggering. …..my 2 cents….fire away!
>
> ☺
>
> Gary
>
>
> From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]<mailto:[mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com]> On Behalf Of lsf5275@...<mailto:lsf5275@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:37 AM
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: M4000D nice review with photos
>
>
> That's hardly the point. I'm not saying that samplers (ROMplers) have no place, I'm saying that they lack the character that a real Mellotron has. The real thing is far more organic. I like my records, tapes and CDs. I have perhaps a thousand or more recorded live performances. I enjoy them too. but once recorded, they sound the same every time I play them. Playing a CD has nothing to do with making music. Playing an instrument does, whether it is a M4000d or a M4000 or an M400. I prefer the latter.
>
> In a message dated 7/20/2011 12:30:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, feline1@...<mailto:feline1@...> writes:
>
>
> Yeah,
> and I bet you never buy records or CDs,
> cos they sound the same every time you play them -
> it's kinda lacking in soul compared to going to a gig.
>
> --- In newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>, lsf5275@ wrote:
> >
> > You can take the M4000D and manipulate it to be idiosyncratic in certain
> > ways. But those idiosyncrasies will be the same to every sound. The
> > character of a Mellotron is derived from how it plays its tapes, variances from
> > frame to frame, tape age, keyboard adjustment, etc. It makes each one unique.
> > Every M4000D will be exactly like every other one. Not a bad thing really,
> > but a little soulless. When I think of a Mellotron, I think of a tape
> > replay machine. The Mellotron sounds that come out of an iPad are no different
> > except the way they are accessed. The sampling rate may be different but the
> > concept is the same.The iPad delivers the sounds but imparts no character
> > to them.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/19/2011 8:37:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > tron400@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Looks like my last reply didn't make it.
> >
> > The last frame I bought has tuned Cello/M400 Violins/Flute. Sure, the
> > Violins are MkII Violins EQ'd for the M400, but the EQ, as well as the tuning,
> > was done by Streetly, so there's a degree of authenticity there (like 100%).
> >
> > I'd love to play around with an M4000D for a few days. It seems to be a
> > practical machine for those who don't want to own a tape replay machine and a
> > good supplement to an M400. But I don't think electronics can ever
> > accurately imitate the electromechanical idiosyncracies of a Mellotron.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > >
> > > so if you bought a new tape rack and played an E Major chord and the
> > fifth was recorded out of tune, you'd prefer that over buying a digital unit
> > with all the notes properly tuned and de-noised?
> > > Even your Mellotron library was recorded and EQ'd with someone else's
> > idea of how it should sound.
> > > I just don't get it, I guess.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "tron400" <tron400@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's one thing to alter the sound of your Mellotron or samples, but
> > it's another thing to have someone else decide for you how it should
> > fundamentally sound.
> > > >
> > > > Bernie
> > > >
> > > > --- In _newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:_newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>_
> > (mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com<mailto:newmellotrongroup%40yahoogroups.com>) , "Charles" <charel196@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > do you think Mike Pinder never did any "tampering" to make his units
> > sound "better"? Geeezus....to me the M4000D is the outgrowth of all the
> > years of addressing the complaints about exactly what was wrong with the tape
> > system by all the major artists (tuning, noise, etc.)
> > > > > Do you think if Harry Chamberlin had this technology at his disposal
> > he would have used tapes?
> > > > > It may not be a "real Mellotron/Chamberlin" in the eyes of the
> > hardcore obsessives but for me it's a completely normal development in the
> > lineage and deserves the name.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>