Bruce, One of my best friends here in town is David Navone. He is a Physicist by education but he and another guy,
Richard Clark from the east coast have a company called AutoSound 2000. If you are into car audio much they have
had articles in the trade mags and their own publication called AutoSound Tech Briefs. They are kind of gurus in that
business and have done a lot to educate people in the industry. They hold several patents and have pissed off their
client’s more than once including Monster Cable so bringing the facts to light has been a double edged sword at times….
Well I’m off for a night of debauchery and wine…not necessarily in that order….Take Care…
Cheers,
Gary
From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Daily
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 5:19 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
Hi Gary-
Yeah, I get a kick out of the "skin effect" argument, too. I guess the point I am making is that the cheap cables are no better than the expensive ones, just as long as they have consistent dimmensions, good shielding, and are properly assembled. Monster Cable tends to have poor, inconsistent cable manufacturing for the money. The construction of their power protection strips is horrible, and rely on the push-in jacks on the backs of the AC jack assemblies, rather that a firm screw connection.
Yes, those hard gripping plugs are excessive. One just needs a good, firm connection. AND, one needs to re-connect them once in a while, to circumvent any oxidization which may occur. This happened on my car stereo (a harsh environment). Re-plugging the connections improved the sound immensely.
One can make better cables by hand. I like to seek out good cables at 2nd-hand shops and pawn shops, and then rework them. I de-grip the plugs, too.
I liked the late 90's in the history of car stereo. The manufacturers tried to sell line-level cables in twisted-pair configuration, calling them "balanced" and low-noise. Bullshit! Balanced configuration requires a positive-going signal line, a negative-going signal line, and a ground (shielded from only one end), and the electronics on each end to support them. I could not convince the retailers that their new "balanced" cables were still unbalanced & now unshielded, subject to more noise than before!
-Bruce D.
--- On Fri, 9/2/11, Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net> wrote:
From: Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net>
Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, September 2, 2011, 10:21 AM
Hi Bruce,
We did extensive testing of various cables for a Magazine and you’re really better off with a good old Beldon cable.
We did everything from frequency response, impulse, capacitance, etc. to double blind listening tests. It’s interesting
that when people saw the shiny gold connectors on a high priced cable next to a boring set of regular cables they could
hear the difference but when they didn’t know what cable they were listening to they could not. Those spiral clawed
RCA cables from Monster used to break the jacks when inserted or removed. These days they sell digital cables that
they claim sound better and it’s just as ridiculous. Noel Lee laughs all the way to the bank! One of my favorites was
a telephone cable that made your dial up Internet speed faster. It was 6 feet long. I asked the engineer about the
house wiring which was intermingled with the mains and he didn’t know how to respond. At the end of the day a good
cable is one with good noise rejection and one that is quiet when shaken (instrument/mic cables), and coils nicely.
Any decent production cable will work fine. I remember a friend of mine paying over $300 in the 70’s for a 3 foot
phono cable. The pamphlet that came with it claimed that there were 3 gauges of wire inside and that the highs
traveled better down the small wires , the mids, the mid size wire, and the bass the larger wire. It then went on to
talk about “skin effect”, that as every real engineer knows, is a phenomena that only occurs at RF frequencies.
There is a lot of twisted science out there and a lot of powerful marketing to support it. There are a lot of great
cables out there at a reasonable price….quiet and durable. The Monster cable is quite popular in the car stereo
industry but in contests appearance is a big thing in their competitions.
Cheers,
Gary
From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Daily
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 12:42 AM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
Hey Gary-
Monster Cable stuff is ok, but stay with their cheapest cables that have serviceable plugs. I have found that they aren't assembled (soldered) very well, and need rework. I did notice that the sound was better, more solid. Heavier speaker wire helps, but again, stay with the basics.
I get the MusicDirect catalog, and some of the audio tweaks they sell are outrageous, and too expensive. Given some thought though, the ideas the tweaks employ can direct you to try cheaper home-brewed solutions.
MusicDirect also offers the Avid Acutus Reference SP Turntable for $20K (no tonearm). Hmm... They also have some new Luxman stuff.
-Bruce D.
(a poor audiophile with a 'tron)
--- On Thu, 9/1/11, Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net> wrote:
From: Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net>
Subject: RE: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
To: "newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 1, 2011, 10:19 PM
Actually the B&O stuff looked like it belonged in a dentist office…..I worked on a lot of B&O product
and it was a form over function company. Like the overpriced esoteric wires and other “magic” stuff
it falls into the category of audio jewelry. I was fortunate to know dealers of a lot of high end audio stuff
and there is a lot of well-designed stuff out there but when you get in to the “audiophile” super high end
there is a lot of smoke and mirrors (and ridiculous price tags). Monster Cable is an interesting company,
they make wild unsubstantiated claims about their products and because they make it look cool people
fall for it. Their “engineers” are more like marketing people than technical people. I got a lot of their
products for free as a result of working on projects for them. I have a big box of bad cables that it all Monster.
They are pretty but very prone to failure. But Noel is a very wealthy guy and Tony would flip over is
exotic car collection. Sorry to ramble on but this hi fi discussion brings back a lot of memories. Now
I just want a amp with remote control and I am happy….boy I must be older than I thought…………
g
From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john barrick
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:19 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
Hate to say it, but I was a teen and that one just didn't look cool to me at all - then again, at that point I didn't appreciate the scandanavian design.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net> wrote:
From: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com [mailto:newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of john barrick
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:38 PM
To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Marantz 2230 restoration
I remember a turntable with a wooden tone arm, didn't know the name. My favorites just for looking cool were the flying saucer looking Dennons in the mid/late '70s and the Micro Seiki that had mounts for three different tone arms. I was on a budget and stuck with Technics DD tables.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM, Gary Brumm <gabru@comsec.net> wrote:
Does anyone remember the Weathers turntable? I had one and it came with a wooden tonearm carved for a specific cartridge.
It was 33 only and had two synchronous motors and a mercury switch. It would come up to stable speed in about a quarter turn.
--
john barrick
*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*
--
john barrick
*Leo got it right the first time*
*then he added a second pickup and got it righter*