MOTM

ok, ever since i got the rr patch sheet, i've been plugging everything i
can find into itself in very strange feedback loops. i'm getting some
really strange and uncontrollable results. my biggest fear is that i am
going to blow something up. will someone please assure me that this
isn't going to harm my system. what comes out sounds so cool (sometimes)
but i feel like i am abusing my modular. any thoughts? -nate

Won't harm MOTM, but, amps, tweeters, and stray cats are at risk.

Paul S.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Nathan Alan Hunsicker" <nate@...>
To: "MOTM Newsgroup" <motm@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 5:30 PM
Subject: [motm] chaos patching


> ok, ever since i got the rr patch sheet, i've been plugging everything i
> can find into itself in very strange feedback loops. i'm getting some
> really strange and uncontrollable results. my biggest fear is that i am
> going to blow something up. will someone please assure me that this
> isn't going to harm my system. what comes out sounds so cool (sometimes)
> but i feel like i am abusing my modular. any thoughts? -nate
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I've always heard that you should never plug a VCA output into either of its 
inputs -- this seems like very good advice and I (even me!) have always 
followed it due to the obvious end in a positive feedback loop. A VCA 
actually probably has some upper limit to prevent it from destroying itself 
(anybody want to clarify that for me). But why chance it when you can spend 
your time plugging everything else into itself.

Speaking of positive feedback, I was thinking of its destructive nature and 
realized that it probably was similarly destructive to guitars. For example, 
I have long used the technique of holding the guitar about a foot away form 
the speaker (with the volume and treble up to 10 naturally) which results in 
a squealing pitch (often referred to as Tele feedback when it happens in less 
deliberate circumstances). The pitch can be changed by changing the distance 
and orientation of the guitar as well as the tone controls and PU selector. 
However, it occurred to me that what is actually going on, with the PU going 
microphonic like this, is the PU vibrating itself to death. I try to do this 
less often with my older guitars nowadays.

JB

In a message dated 11/1/2000 4:34:54 PM, nate@... writes:

>ok, ever since i got the rr patch sheet, i've been plugging everything
>i
>can find into itself in very strange feedback loops. i'm getting some
>really strange and uncontrollable results. my biggest fear is that i am
>going to blow something up. will someone please assure me that this
>isn't going to harm my system. what comes out sounds so cool (sometimes)
>but i feel like i am abusing my modular. any thoughts? -nate
>

h3y jb,
 try leggin' the output of the vca into a mixer/attenuater(<-sp?) 
first and then back out to the input on your vca with a lower signal 
level.  it's easier to control the amount of feedback this way.  
 as far as the PU vibratin' itself to death, i've always been under 
the (¿)delusion(?)that it's the strings vibratin' themselves to 
death, not the  PU.
 have you tried feedback with an ebow?  i use a '63 gretsch 
tennessean into a reissue '65 twin with no outboard overdrive, reverb 
at max o' course.  by adjustin' the vibrato settin' carefully, while 
slowly bendin' the bigsby, one can achieve a most interestin' 
auditory journey.  much more beautiful than fully distorted 
feedback.  kinda synthy-like...(at least that's what the keyboard 
player i was jammin' with said when he found out he wasn't makin' 
that noise...)
peace,
doc

--- In motm@egroups.com, jwbarlow@a... wrote:
> I've always heard that you should never plug a VCA output into 
either of its 
> inputs -- this seems like very good advice and I (even me!) have 
always 
> followed it due to the obvious end in a positive feedback loop. A 
VCA 
> actually probably has some upper limit to prevent it from 
destroying itself 
> (anybody want to clarify that for me). But why chance it when you 
can spend 
> your time plugging everything else into itself.
> 
> Speaking of positive feedback, I was thinking of its destructive 
nature and 
> realized that it probably was similarly destructive to guitars. For 
example, 
> I have long used the technique of holding the guitar about a foot 
away form 
> the speaker (with the volume and treble up to 10 naturally) which 
results in 
> a squealing pitch (often referred to as Tele feedback when it 
happens in less 
> deliberate circumstances). The pitch can be changed by changing the 
distance 
> and orientation of the guitar as well as the tone controls and PU 
selector. 
> However, it occurred to me that what is actually going on, with the 
PU going 
> microphonic like this, is the PU vibrating itself to death. I try 
to do this 

> less often with my older guitars nowadays.
> 
> JB
>

In a message dated 11/1/2000 8:18:06 PM, doc@... writes:

> try leggin' the output of the vca into a mixer/attenuater(<-sp?) 
>first and then back out to the input on your vca with a lower signal 
>level.  it's easier to control the amount of feedback this way.  

Do you do this? I'm still not sure I want to risk either my ARP VCA, my MOTM 
(or other CEM 3330) VCA, or my Serge (go ahead and put it on an O'scope, it 
still sounds great to me!) UAP to try this.

> as far as the PU vibratin' itself to death, i've always been under 
>the (¿)delusion(?)that it's the strings vibratin' themselves to 
>death, not the  PU.

Two different kinds of feedback, but no good way to discuss the difference. 
String feedback, as you know, with moderately high volume and distances of a 
few to several feet between the guitar and speaker. 

If you turn the volume up even higher and stick the PUs right into the 
speaker (as close as you can, up against the grill cloth) the guitar will 
produce a shrill squealing -- like a microphone. If you are able to 
experiment with this, you will find the strings play no effect and even 
strumming them has little effect on the sound which is dominated by the PU 
going microphonic -- the PU (or parts of it) are behaving as an oscillator. 
Warning! This is most certainly damaging to the ears as well.

> have you tried feedback with an ebow?  i use a '63 gretsch 
>tennessean into a reissue '65 twin with no outboard overdrive, reverb 
>at max o' course.  by adjustin' the vibrato settin' carefully, while 
>slowly bendin' the bigsby, one can achieve a most interestin' 
>auditory journey.  much more beautiful than fully distorted 
>feedback. 

Great set up! I love Gretschs, and the Bigsby really adds something to them. 
The Gretsch is definitely on my wish list! Yes, I've been using an E-bow on 
and off for almost 20 years, and I agree that with delay and reverb, you can 
get some great sounds. I often use it to get those Ligeti tone clouds.

However, similar to what I was saying about the squealing PU feedback shaking 
the PUs apart, if you do that "Birdman" style of string feedback, you maybe 
damaging a hollow body guitar as well since the amplifier is causing the 
guitar to vibrate possibly at levels greater than 100% of its ability to 
vibrate -- do you follow this? 

Only two ours of sleep last night, having nothing to do with Halloween!
JB