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2000-06-12 by Thomas Hudson
Paul Schreiber wrote: > > JH Top Secret Project demos uploaded: > > www.synthtech.com/demo > > Hint: they all start with jh. > "And I heard what he had done, and it was good..." "On the sixth day, they created a MOTM-quality vocoder..." Wow... Tomy
2000-06-12 by Brousseau, Paul E (Paul)
Is that a vocoder? I was thinking of was a formant filter or oscilator... or something like that. Whatever it is, I'm damn impressed! --PBr
> -----Original Message----- > From: David Bivins [SMTP:dbivins@...] > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:17 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > X = vocoder price > Y = weeks until vocoder is ready to ship > Z = amount I have to save each paycheck > > (Y/2)*Z = X > > Help us with the first two variables :) > > David. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] > > Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 6:08 PM > > To: MOTM listserv > > Subject: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > JH Top Secret Project demos uploaded: > > > > www.synthtech.com/demo > > > > Hint: they all start with jh. > > > > Paul S. > > cleaning out the closets >
2000-06-12 by jhaible
> Is that a vocoder? I was thinking of was a formant filter or oscilator... > or something like that. Whatever it is, I'm damn impressed! I wouldn't call it a vocoder yet. "Vocoder core" comes closer, as it's only the filterbanks, VCAs and envelope followers that make the core of a vocoder. The naked veroboard which was shown on the picture some weeks ago. Nothing like voiced/unvoiced detection, or silence bridging yet - this will be added of course. What - you're telling us that you get that degree of speech intelligibility *without* voiced/unvoiced decoder ?? Yes, and without mixing in part of the speech signal or any other tricks that were used by some of the classic vocoders. As for the samples, see them as a snapshot of the current state of development, nothing more. A good friend of mine (who designed the MAM vocoder) came to visit, and we played and tweaked around all evening, and I had a DAT running and extracted a few mp3 sniplets. The number of bands is rather limited at the moment, too. (Though the one who counted seven some weeks ago was way wrong.) The MOTM version is intended to have considerably more channels. The idea is that I'm playing around and optimizing a rather small vocoder, so the big one will be designed without much unpleasant surprises. And yes, I have just told you that you only heard the small one so far (;->). JH.
2000-06-12 by The Old Crow
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Brousseau, Paul E (Paul) wrote: > Is that a vocoder? I was thinking of was a formant filter or oscilator... > or something like that. Whatever it is, I'm damn impressed! I think this is the "mystery circuit board" JH pointed out on his website a while back. It sounds like a filterbank. The interesting part to me is that he is modulating the (traditionally adjusted by panel pots) filter corners (the "talking synthesizer" mp3) using an envelope follower for a 'quasi-vocoder' sound. A voltage-controlled filterbank? Crow /**/
2000-06-12 by The Old Crow
On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, jhaible wrote: > I wouldn't call it a vocoder yet. "Vocoder core" comes closer, > as it's only the filterbanks, VCAs and envelope followers > that make the core of a vocoder. The naked veroboard which was > shown on the picture some weeks ago. Nothing like voiced/unvoiced > detection, or silence bridging yet - this will be added of course. Once again, I predict the past by a mere 5 seconds ^^; Crow /**/
2000-06-13 by Thomas Hudson
I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, attenuating these bands to make room in the overall mix for something like vocals. Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even something that would be useful? Tomy
2000-06-13 by John E Blacet
Knowing something about the complexity of vocoder design, I would really doubt being able to put an analog vocoder in a module of the MOTM form factor. Unless you use SMD or custom chips....or stack boards. One would also have to accept less in the way of user interface than seems to be desired. No gauntlet tossing intended.... ;> Regards. ------------------------- John Blacet Blacet Research Music Electronics http://www.blacet.com ------------------------- blacet@... ------------------------- Are you on our mailing list? http://www.blacet.com/mailform2.html
2000-06-13 by Dave Bradley
You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs are brought out to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run them through inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard vocoding effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end machine if I was to purchase one. Dave Bradley Principal Software Engineer Engineering Animation, Inc. daveb@...
> -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > mix for something like vocals. > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > something that would be useful? > > Tomy
2000-06-13 by Paul Schreiber
I depends if there is room, and then not having nice Switchcraft jacks since you would want these pcb mounted. I figure having this adds $500 to the retail price. Paul S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> To: <motm@egroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs are brought out > to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run them through > inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard vocoding
> effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end machine if I was > to purchase one. > > Dave Bradley > Principal Software Engineer > Engineering Animation, Inc. > daveb@... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > > To: motm@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > > mix for something like vocals. > > > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > > something that would be useful? > > > > Tomy > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-06-13 by Dave Bradley
How about the possibility of adding headers with jumpers, so you could customize your vocoder with external patch points by replacing the jumpered headers with ones to external normalled jacks? Best of both worlds. Moe
> -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:59 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > I depends if there is room, and then not having nice Switchcraft > jacks since > you would > want these pcb mounted. I figure having this adds $500 to the > retail price. > > Paul S. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> > To: <motm@egroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:42 AM > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs are brought > out > > to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run > them through > > inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard > vocoding > > effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end > machine if I was > > to purchase one. > > > > Dave Bradley > > Principal Software Engineer > > Engineering Animation, Inc. > > daveb@... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > > > To: motm@egroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > > > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > > > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > > > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > > > mix for something like vocals. > > > > > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > > > something that would be useful? > > > > > > Tomy > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make PayPal your friend. > Sign up today and get a $5 bonus. > http://click.egroups.com/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-06-13 by Nathan Hunsicker
I'd be willing to put a deposit towards r&d on this project, however what is the final price goal? Last I heard was around $1200? (my memory is not very good) Add $500 worth of patch points and we're nearing $2000. I believe in MOTM and that Paul can build the king of all vocoders, I just want to make sure that we don't decide to build a huge, feature rich module (or modules) that would'nt be realistic for most of us to own. I'm trying to consider it from Paul's perspective. The only analog vocoder I know of in production today is the SKY Vocoder, it's a 12 band analog vocoder with a built in patchable triangle wave osc., it retails for $750 and from what I understand, it's a big seller. I'd love to see MOTM's vocoder packed with features, but lets try to keep the price in a somewhat reasonable level so we can attract new customers to the MOTM "family" Just a thought... -Nate PS: even if this does become the $2000 MOTM vocoder, I'll probably find the $$$ to buy one anyway. Food and shelter aren't that important :)
>Let's just make sure we make it worth your while and make it the best damn > >vocoder out there. Even if you have to take deposits at some point... I'd > >hate to look at it a couple years from now, trying to figure out how to > >modify it to do more... > > > >I'm starting to set the $$ aside now. > > > >David. > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:07 AM > >> To: motm@egroups.com > >> Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > >> > >> > >> How about the possibility of adding headers with jumpers, so you could > >> customize your vocoder with external patch points by replacing > >> the jumpered > >> headers with ones to external normalled jacks? Best of both worlds. > >> > >> Moe > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:59 AM > >> > To: motm@egroups.com > >> > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > >> > > >> > > >> > I depends if there is room, and then not having nice Switchcraft > >> > jacks since > >> > you would > >> > want these pcb mounted. I figure having this adds $500 to the > >> > retail price. > >> > > >> > Paul S. > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> > >> > To: <motm@egroups.com> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:42 AM > >> > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > >> > > >> > > >> > > You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs > >> are brought > >> > out > >> > > to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run > >> > them through > >> > > inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard > >> > vocoding > >> > > effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end > >> > machine if I was > >> > > to purchase one. > >> > > > >> > > Dave Bradley > >> > > Principal Software Engineer > >> > > Engineering Animation, Inc. > >> > > daveb@... > >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > >> > > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > >> > > > To: motm@egroups.com > >> > > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > >> > > > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > >> > > > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > >> > > > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > >> > > > mix for something like vocals. > >> > > > > >> > > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > >> > > > something that would be useful? > >> > > > > >> > > > Tomy > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > >> > > >><http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/>http://click.egroups.co >>m/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/ > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > Make PayPal your friend. > >> > Sign up today and get a $5 bonus. > >> > >><http://click.egroups.com/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/>http://click.egroups.co >>m/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > >> >><http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/5/_/529958/_/960908956/>http://click.egroups.co >>m/1/4633/5/_/529958/_/960908956/ > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> > > > > > >
2000-06-13 by David Bivins
Let's just make sure we make it worth your while and make it the best damn vocoder out there. Even if you have to take deposits at some point... I'd hate to look at it a couple years from now, trying to figure out how to modify it to do more... I'm starting to set the $$ aside now. David.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:07 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > How about the possibility of adding headers with jumpers, so you could > customize your vocoder with external patch points by replacing > the jumpered > headers with ones to external normalled jacks? Best of both worlds. > > Moe > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:59 AM > > To: motm@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > I depends if there is room, and then not having nice Switchcraft > > jacks since > > you would > > want these pcb mounted. I figure having this adds $500 to the > > retail price. > > > > Paul S. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> > > To: <motm@egroups.com> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:42 AM > > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > > You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs > are brought > > out > > > to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run > > them through > > > inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard > > vocoding > > > effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end > > machine if I was > > > to purchase one. > > > > > > Dave Bradley > > > Principal Software Engineer > > > Engineering Animation, Inc. > > > daveb@... > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > > > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > > > > To: motm@egroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > > > > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > > > > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > > > > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > > > > mix for something like vocals. > > > > > > > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > > > > something that would be useful? > > > > > > > > Tomy > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Make PayPal your friend. > > Sign up today and get a $5 bonus. > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/5/_/529958/_/960908956/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >
2000-06-13 by Doug Pearson
At 12:36 PM 06/13/2000 -0600, "David Bivins" <dbivins@...> wrote: >One can always buy a MAM vocoder to use with the MOTM system... Hell, right >now I'm using a Zoom 1201! And I hear that the Boss SE-50 & SE-70 are other good alternatives (if you don't mind cheest multieffect units like these and Zooms) for a cheap vocoder while you're waiting for a serious one ... -Doug ceres@...
2000-06-13 by Thomas Hudson
Doug Pearson wrote: > And I hear that the Boss SE-50 & SE-70 are other good alternatives (if you > don't mind cheest multieffect units like these and Zooms) for a cheap > vocoder while you're waiting for a serious one ... > I have an SE-50 and the vocoder is pretty disappointing. The one in the SE-70 is much improved, with more bands and more control. Tomy
2000-06-13 by David Bivins
I disagree with the "reasonable" part--let this be a flagship module. The design doesn't preclude using this as a stand-alone unit, so there are other markets (outside modular folks) who will be interested. Understand that this will occupy a price point between the cheaper vocoders (Sky and MAM e.g.) and the massively expensive (EMS and including the "vintage" market). As far as attracting new users, just having this module available, even in limited quantities (enough so that Paul has a chance of recouping his investments) will attract folks to the MOTM stable, even if they can't afford it (yet). Anyone checking it out will certainly see the other, highly attractive modules available. Not that it's analogous, but I have an easier time selling someone a $200,000 web site by showing them a $2 million dollar one, even when I explain thoroughly that they're not going to get nearly as much stuff. They see that it's about value (price to features) Once again, I don't want to sacrifice flexibility to meet an inexpensive price point. This is a highly specialized unit that's unlike any of the other modules. Any given system won't suffer without it (it's not as if it were a $2000 VCO and the only one available for the system), but it will please those who want a Bentley over a Bonneville (not knocking Bonnevilles--I love Bonnevilles). One can always buy a MAM vocoder to use with the MOTM system... Hell, right now I'm using a Zoom 1201! David. > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathan Hunsicker [mailto:nate@...] > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:52 AM > To: motm@egroups.com > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > I'd be willing to put a deposit towards r&d on this project, however what > is the final price goal? Last I heard was around $1200? (my memory is not > very good) Add $500 worth of patch points and we're nearing $2000. I > believe in MOTM and that Paul can build the king of all vocoders, I just > want to make sure that we don't decide to build a huge, feature > rich module > (or modules) that would'nt be realistic for most of us to own. I'm trying > to consider it from Paul's perspective. The only analog vocoder I know of > in production today is the SKY Vocoder, it's a 12 band analog vocoder with > a built in patchable triangle wave osc., it retails for $750 and from what > I understand, it's a big seller. I'd love to see MOTM's vocoder > packed with > features, but lets try to keep the price in a somewhat > reasonable level so > we can attract new customers to the MOTM "family" Just a thought... -Nate > > > PS: even if this does become the $2000 MOTM vocoder, I'll probably find > the $$$ to buy one anyway. Food and shelter aren't that important :) > > > > > > >Let's just make sure we make it worth your while and make it the > best damn > > > >vocoder out there. Even if you have to take deposits at some point... I'd > > > >hate to look at it a couple years from now, trying to figure out how to > > > >modify it to do more... > > > > > > > >I'm starting to set the $$ aside now. > > > > > > > >David. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Dave Bradley [mailto:daveb@...] > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:07 AM > > > >> To: motm@egroups.com > > > >> Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> How about the possibility of adding headers with jumpers, so you could > > > >> customize your vocoder with external patch points by replacing > > > >> the jumpered > > > >> headers with ones to external normalled jacks? Best of both worlds. > > > >> > > > >> Moe > > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...] > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:59 AM > > > >> > To: motm@egroups.com > > > >> > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I depends if there is room, and then not having nice Switchcraft > > > >> > jacks since > > > >> > you would > > > >> > want these pcb mounted. I figure having this adds $500 to the > > > >> > retail price. > > > >> > > > > >> > Paul S. > > > >> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: "Dave Bradley" <daveb@...> > > > >> > To: <motm@egroups.com> > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 9:42 AM > > > >> > Subject: RE: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > You can do tricks like this if the detector section outputs > > > >> are brought > > > >> > out > > > >> > > to patch points, so you can swap control of bands around, run > > > >> > them through > > > >> > > inverters, etc. Yes, it's very useful for going beyond the standard > > > >> > vocoding > > > >> > > effects. It's a feature I'd definitely want in a high end > > > >> > machine if I was > > > >> > > to purchase one. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Dave Bradley > > > >> > > Principal Software Engineer > > > >> > > Engineering Animation, Inc. > > > >> > > daveb@... > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > > > >> > > > From: Thomas Hudson [mailto:thudson@...] > > > >> > > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:36 PM > > > >> > > > To: motm@egroups.com > > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [motm] Prepare to be amazed > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I have a question concerning vocoders. It would seem to > > > >> > > > be useful to have the opposite effect of a vocoder. Instead > > > >> > > > of boosting the bands where the carrier is strongest, > > > >> > > > attenuating these bands to make room in the overall > > > >> > > > mix for something like vocals. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Do highend vocoders have this feature, or is it even > > > >> > > > something that would be useful? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Tomy > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > > > >> > > > >><http://click.egroups.com/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/>http:// > click.egroups.co > >>m/1/4634/5/_/529958/_/960907423/ > > > >> > > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >> > Make PayPal your friend. > > > >> > Sign up today and get a $5 bonus. > > > >> > > >><http://click.egroups.com/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/>http:// click.egroups.co >>m/1/5024/5/_/529958/_/960908118/ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. > >> >><http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/5/_/529958/_/960908956/>http://click.egro ups.co >>m/1/4633/5/_/529958/_/960908956/ > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Click here for a chance to win airfare to Vegas for you and 20 friends, $15,000 and a suite at Bellagio for New Year's from Expedia.com. Or win 2 roundtrip tickets anywhere in the U.S. given away daily. http://click.egroups.com/1/5296/5/_/529958/_/960911649/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000-06-13 by mr sikorsky