MOTM

I must chime in here and vote for a VC Phase Shifter. I have been using an old
Eventide Instant Paser that is on loan to me. It is just about the most
wonderfull phase shifter I have ever heard. Beside it's own LFO it has a
manual control, external VC and an envelope follower. I am dreaming of a
module with the same features - and of course the same sound, but without the
noise (and overheating problems).


...jp

At 08:52 PM 5/11/99 -0400, "fuzz" <fuzztone@...> wrote:

>
>I must chime in here and vote for a VC Phase Shifter.

I'll second that!

I'll also add my votes FOR a voltage-controlled analog delay/chorus/flanger
(I would assume that this could be done in one unit, sort of like the
Ibanez AD202), and AGAINST the percussion modules.

... and I'll have to try running instruments through the '120 and using the
square output as a synch source for the '300 (once I receive the kit and
build it!). Thanks for the suggestion.

-Doug
ceres@...

Just for the *sake* of argument:

MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter

Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.

Any interest???

Paul S.
(yes it's a little $$$ but has a s**tload of parts, MORE than the VCO! But
*cheaper* parts!)

I'd buy one.

(Still working on the bmps, went out and got drunk earlier!)

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 8:27 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Future module vote - VC Phase Shifter
>
>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
> MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
> Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
> Any interest???
>
> Paul S.
> (yes it's a little $$$ but has a s**tload of parts, MORE than the VCO! But
> *cheaper* parts!)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How many communities do you think join ONElist each day?
> http://www.onelist.com
> More than 1,000!
>

Oh yes please..... would that also include a CV IN for control via EG (or
DADSR) or better yet a midi sync LFO from the pro2000?

...jp


_______________________________________________________________________________

>From: motm@onelist.com on Tue, May 11, 1999 9:23 PM
>Subject: Re: [motm] Future module vote - VC Phase Shifter
>To: motm@onelist.com
>
>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
>MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
>Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
>Any interest???
>
>Paul S.
>(yes it's a little $$$ but has a s**tload of parts, MORE than the VCO! But
>*cheaper* parts!)

I am interested. I like the idea of a good flanger or phaser for MOTM. I
think some effetcs could be cool. But, stay away from the ones that are
easily done externally and/or digitally like reverb / delays.

And, NO spring reverb. These things have terrible frequency response and I
don't think one could be made to sound good (up to MOTM specs). If you
want a spring reverb, go build the PAiA. I did, and it sounds, well, like
a spring reverb. This is one area where multi-effect or dedicated reverb
effect boxes HAVE made an improvement in my opinion.

As far as the other modules other have suggested to interface to other
instruments, YEP, count me in. The good pre-amp for sure to bring those
signal levels up to MOTM levels. I know that Guitar outputs are high
impedance (I was thinking about 500K), but most mixer pres will work with
guitar direct or synth outputs. Couldn't MOTM-pre be the same way.

Larry Hendry

----------

> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
> MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
> Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
> Any interest???

In a message dated 5/11/99 5:20:59 PM, synth1@... writes:

>Just for the *sake* of argument:
>MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>Any interest???

This sounds great! I always like VCQ (or VC resonance) whenever possible.

About the preamp:
In a message dated 5/11/99 5:15:19 PM, synth1@... writes:

>There are several BIG differences that don't lend easily to "flip the
>switch". Actually,
>guitars, mics, and syths ALL are so different that very liitle is common.

Bummer! That's what I thought you'd say.

>I still want to do a good mic pre: I bought all these high $$$ Burr-Brown
>instrumentation amps
>and AD820 super whiz-bang FET op amps for the servos.

I agree that a good mic amp is a separate idea.

>The guitar pre has a VERY high input impedance (like 1M) and uses a VERY
>$$$
>Linear Tech
>current-mode op amp (like $12ea!) with a LT1010 current booster for pure
>Class A excitement.

I like the "sound" of this one. I guess it's too late (too expensive, and
undesired by the rest of the MOTM crew) to have two guitar preamps in the
module -- I'm still not sure why I'd need a "Synth Input."

JB

>I like the "sound" of this one. I guess it's too late (too expensive, and
>undesired by the rest of the MOTM crew) to have two guitar preamps in the
>module -- I'm still not sure why I'd need a "Synth Input."
>

Because most synths output 1V pk-pk at full volume and we want 10V pk-pk
"inside" MOTM.

Paul S.

Ahhh... YES! Like how about I'll take 2 for starters. I'm a Phase freak!
How about something like my favorite Bi-Phase?

So just to throw out another idea for a module... how about some formant
filters ala the Synton Syrinx? Those really rock!

Rob

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
>MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
>Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
>Any interest???
>
>Paul S.
>(yes it's a little $$$ but has a s**tload of parts, MORE than the VCO! But
>*cheaper* parts!)
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>How many communities do you think join ONElist each day?
>http://www.onelist.com
>More than 1,000!

Rob Johnson
Premiere QE Team
robjohns@...

In a message dated 5/11/99 6:35:21 PM, jlarryh@... writes:

>I am interested. I like the idea of a good flanger or phaser for MOTM.
> I
>think some effetcs could be cool. But, stay away from the ones that are
>easily done externally and/or digitally like reverb / delays.

I was thinking it would be useful to switch between different inputs and
different control sources of a VC Delay (preferably digital for infinite
repeat possibilities) with a MOTM 700 VC Router. You could then use, for a
simple example, a flanger for one signal and a slap echo for another with
the same module!!! But VC delay would seem to have many other advantages
beyond this. I do mostly agree that other digital reverb and delay units are
much better suited for what they do.

>And, NO spring reverb. These things have terrible frequency response and
>I
>don't think one could be made to sound good (up to MOTM specs). If you
>want a spring reverb, go build the PAiA. I did, and it sounds, well, like
>a spring reverb. This is one area where multi-effect or dedicated reverb
>effect boxes HAVE made an improvement in my opinion.

Here's a patch (which every 2600 user figures out rather quickly) which, if
you don't already use it, may make your springs seem a bit more useful.

1) VCO (or VCOs) to the reverb input (this may require the use of the soon to
be available MOTM Synth preamp).

2) Reverb to VCA.

3) ADSR to VCA VC in.

4) VCA out to mixer.

The reverb acts as LPF. Try varying the ADSR times for different effects.
Hope you like this.
JB

<droooool>
Sorry, got the email kinda wet. Yes, yes, yes! BTW, loved the info on the
new filter! I also would not be interested in dedicated percussion modules.
I'm looking forward to patching up my own percussive voices; for diy perc.
voice modules (for my education), I'll stick with the Midwest Analog
Products modules.

I had an idea for a bizarre effect last night, but it's more like something
that would be done in a big-ass software environment, as it's based on
reversing samples in realtime... Does anyone know of an audio manipulation
environment (as Max is for MIDI) on a PC, so I could see if this would even
sound interesting?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Schreiber [mailto:synth1@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 9:27 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Future module vote - VC Phase Shifter
>
>
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
> MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
> Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
> Any interest???
>
> Paul S.
> (yes it's a little $$$ but has a s**tload of parts, MORE than the VCO! But
> *cheaper* parts!)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> How many communities do you think join ONElist each day?
> http://www.onelist.com
> More than 1,000!
>

> From: "David Bivins" <david@...>
> I'm looking forward to patching up my own percussive voices; for diy perc.
> voice modules (for my education), I'll stick with the Midwest Analog
> Products modules.

Did you build these? SNARE? BASS? How were they?

> that would be done in a big-ass software environment, as it's based on
> reversing samples in realtime... Does anyone know of an audio manipulation
> environment (as Max is for MIDI) on a PC, so I could see if this
> would even sound interesting?

Do you want to reverse the whole sample or little snippets? Do you want the
MOTM to do this????

--Todd

> Did you build these? SNARE? BASS? How were they?

<hangs head in shame>Er, not yet. I'm going to soon, though! I'll let you
know--first is the ADV-Bass.

> > that would be done in a big-ass software environment, as it's based on
> > reversing samples in realtime... Does anyone know of an audio
> manipulation
> > environment (as Max is for MIDI) on a PC, so I could see if this
> > would even sound interesting?
>
> Do you want to reverse the whole sample or little snippets? Do
> you want the
> MOTM to do this????

It's hard to explain--I visualize it a little better. It's basically about
reversing the actual samples (that make up a whole "sample") in a linear
fashion so that the sample overall folds over itself. The user could dictate
the curve by which it reverses, etc. This wouldn't really be a MOTM kind of
thing (although I guess it could be) but more of a VST Plugin kind of thing
or standalone digital module.

This may be a better explanation. Let's say the samples comprising a tone
are represented by the letters of the alphabet so that the tone is:
ABCDEFGHIJ
Now we put it through the wringer thus: ABCDEFEDCDEFGHIJ
Now we control the "curve" of the reversal:
AAAABBBBCCCCDDDDEEEEFFFFEEEDDCDDEEEFFFFGGGGHHHHIIIIJJJJ

Make any sense? It's the drugs, I tell ya...

David.

Whoah--didn't mean to send this to the list. Ignore my babblings, MOTMers!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Bivins [mailto:david@...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 1999 1:21 PM
> To: motm@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [motm] Future module vote - VC Phase Shifter
>
>
> From: "David Bivins" <david@...>
>
> > Did you build these? SNARE? BASS? How were they?
>
> <hangs head in shame>Er, not yet. I'm going to soon, though! I'll let you
> know--first is the ADV-Bass.

> From: "David Bivins" <david@...>
> > Did you build these? SNARE? BASS? How were they?
> <hangs head in shame>Er, not yet. I'm going to soon, though! I'll let you
> know--first is the ADV-Bass.

I haven't got Thomas Henry to reply to my emails. How was your response
from him?

> > Do you want to reverse the whole sample or little snippets? Do
> > you want the
> > MOTM to do this????
> It's hard to explain--I visualize it a little better. It's basically about
> reversing the actual samples (that make up a whole "sample") in a linear
> fashion so that the sample overall folds over itself. The user
> could dictate
> the curve by which it reverses, etc. This wouldn't really be a MOTM kind

of

> thing (although I guess it could be) but more of a VST Plugin kind of

thing

> or standalone digital module.
> This may be a better explanation. Let's say the samples comprising a tone
> are represented by the letters of the alphabet so that the tone is:

ABCDEFGHIJ

> Now we put it through the wringer thus: ABCDEFEDCDEFGHIJ
> Now we control the "curve" of the reversal:
> AAAABBBBCCCCDDDDEEEEFFFFEEEDDCDDEEEFFFFGGGGHHHHIIIIJJJJ

What your are describing is extreme time-stretching. The classic use of the
this effect in jungle/breakbeat/drum&bass. It also is used in some other
genres of techno such as happy hardcore. This is a full on digital effect
and will only sound the way you want it to as a result of the digital
artifacts that are created. A snap to do on almost all samples and many
digital editing programs.

A friend created an effect on his Ensoniq EPS 16+ where he loops a small
sample (snippet) and controls the loop point with the mod wheel which gives
the same effect with more variations and controllability.

This only really sounds cool with vocals IMO.

This will never make it into an MOTM module methinks.

Ciao,
Todd

P.S. Sample can have 2 basic meanings in my own common terms. 1) a sample
can be a collection of "samples" in time. Examples are .wav and .au files.
2) an actual sampling of the level of sound at a given point in time. a
44.1 kHz sampling rate would mean that samples are taken once every
forty-four thousand one hundredth of a second. or a one second "sample"
would contain 44,100 samples. 3) and you thought there were only two. a
sample of a sample. a snippet of a sample. people usually understand by
context.

sorry if this is too off topic or too simple. please feel free to add to or
correct my definitions.

At 08:26 PM 5/11/99 -0500, you wrote:

>From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
>Just for the *sake* of argument:
>
>MOTM-500 14-stage VC Phase Shifter
>
>Based on ARP Quadra design. VC of rate and depth, 2U wide. $189 kit.
>
>Any interest???

Hi list.
i would buy this.
and i would like a spring reverb module.

thanx
Gur Milstein