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Retooling

Retooling

2000-02-13 by Paul Schreiber

>
> Has there been any interest in a collective "gathering" of funds to
finance
> the re-tooling costs, it would be interesting to see if enough people
would
> be up for it.
>
> Apart from selling them to D* for loads, the interest in Analogue seems to
> be snowballing which could make the collective some profit maybe to fund
> more!. (sorry about the Collective bit, too much 7 of 9 (Borg))

Actually, not having these in wide distribution is a competive advantage for
me.

But, the main issue is that the chips are designed on a IC process no longer
available,
and EVERY chip must be retooled for modern IC design rules. That's $48K *per
chip*.

AND...I have 4,203 CEM3340 VCO chips. AND being Mr Nice Guy sold 175 to
Doepfer.

>
> On a MOTM note, I have just got one of the 320's finished.  That LED is
> great.  Could one be used in the VCEG to change colour with EG's progress?

Yes, but that's sort of a power hog.

Paul S.

Re: Retooling

2000-02-13 by Seth Redmore

I remember reading 3 years back (in EE times) about some generic FPGA-like
device, that instead was analog cells that could be on-the-fly reconfigured.
I'm not sure how the reconfiguration worked, or what the capacity of the device
was, but it certainly seemed like it could have very general synthesis
applicability.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about?  It might be most appropriate to go to
a device like this, and construct various models to run on it...

Re-issuing chips is a risky business.  Hell, even getting fab time at a foundry
is hard -- us Si valley dweebs are taking up all the production lines with our
damn digital stuff.

Now, if you *were* going to do a synth chip, it would probably make sense to
take advantage of modern packaging technology, spend more up front in design,
verification, and layout, and end up with some monster PQFP (plastic quad flat
pack) or BGA (ball grid array) chip that has several hundred lines running into
and out of it for 20 EG's, 4 VCO's, 4 VCF's, etc, etc.  Or, heck, do a VCF chip
that represents 10 of the most popular VCF's all on the same chip.

It would be particularly interesting to explore the power consumption
characteristics of modern chip technology, so as to produce a super-power-light
device that had massive modular-like functionality, and could be in a small
widget, and could run on batteries.  Like the nord modular, but with real
analog.

Venture captial could probably be found to do this... (Particularly if the
device was milspec, and had functionality that would be interesting in
telecommunications, or the battlefield, or somesuch  -- like using the filters
and VCO's in a battlefield radio to help intelligability or something..)

This could be the Intel of synthesizers. :)  (Then, of course, you'd have to ID
every chip with a unique number in it, so that Intel and the feds could track
your synthesizer use.  Remember the scandal with the PII's?)

Synthesis is not a crime!

--Seth

Paul Schreiber wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...>
>
> >
> > Has there been any interest in a collective "gathering" of funds to
> finance
> > the re-tooling costs, it would be interesting to see if enough people
> would
> > be up for it.
> >
> > Apart from selling them to D* for loads, the interest in Analogue seems to
> > be snowballing which could make the collective some profit maybe to fund
> > more!. (sorry about the Collective bit, too much 7 of 9 (Borg))
>
> Actually, not having these in wide distribution is a competive advantage for
> me.
>
> But, the main issue is that the chips are designed on a IC process no longer
> available,
> and EVERY chip must be retooled for modern IC design rules. That's $48K *per
> chip*.
>
> AND...I have 4,203 CEM3340 VCO chips. AND being Mr Nice Guy sold 175 to
> Doepfer.
>
> >
> > On a MOTM note, I have just got one of the 320's finished.  That LED is
> > great.  Could one be used in the VCEG to change colour with EG's progress?
>
> Yes, but that's sort of a power hog.
>
> Paul S.
>
> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Retooling

2000-02-13 by JWBarlow@aol.com

In a message dated 2/13/2000 9:53:08 AM, sredmore@... writes:

>Now, if you *were* going to do a synth chip, it would probably make sense
>to
>take advantage of modern packaging technology, spend more up front in design,
>verification, and layout, and end up with some monster PQFP (plastic quad
>flat
>pack) or BGA (ball grid array) chip that has several hundred lines running
>into
>and out of it for 20 EG's, 4 VCO's, 4 VCF's, etc, etc.  Or, heck, do a
>VCF chip
>that represents 10 of the most popular VCF's all on the same chip.


This is one of the first areas where this idea starts to falter -- the 
difference between those who want to make exact replacements for out of 
production ICs (mainly to keep older synths working), and those who want to 
make the best possible synth ICs


>This could be the Intel of synthesizers. :)  (Then, of course, you'd have
>to ID
>every chip with a unique number in it, so that Intel and the feds could
>track
>your synthesizer use.  Remember the scandal with the PII's?)
>
>Synthesis is not a crime!

Have you heard John Tesh?

John (cheap shot) Barlow

Re: Retooling

2000-02-13 by DAVEVOSH@aol.com

In a message dated 00-02-13 11:53:12 EST, you write:

<< 
 Now, if you *were* going to do a synth chip, it would probably make sense to
 take advantage of modern packaging technology, spend more up front in design,
 verification, and layout, and end up with some monster PQFP (plastic quad 
flat
 pack) or BGA (ball grid array) chip that has several hundred lines running 
into
 and out of it for 20 EG's, 4 VCO's, 4 VCF's, etc, etc.  Or, heck, do a VCF 
chip
 that represents 10 of the most popular VCF's all on the same chip.
  >>



seth,
something like this would be very interesting assuming there was someone 
skilled enough and with access to the right design tools -- 16 eg`s on a chip 
or some complex filter topologies -- but i can`t imagine it being inexpensive 
to design and do a run -- $100k - ? 
still, it might be the way to go for a company with the resources and the 
vision.
best,
dave

Re: Retooling

2000-02-13 by Paul Schreiber

It's been done. Alesis Andromedia

www.alesis.com

$3600!!

Paul S.

----- Original Message -----
From: <DAVEVOSH@...>
To: <motm@onelist.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [motm] Retooling


> From: DAVEVOSH@...
>
> In a message dated 00-02-13 11:53:12 EST, you write:
>
> <<
>  Now, if you *were* going to do a synth chip, it would probably make sense
to
>  take advantage of modern packaging technology, spend more up front in
design,
>  verification, and layout, and end up with some monster PQFP (plastic quad
> flat
>  pack) or BGA (ball grid array) chip that has several hundred lines
running
> into
>  and out of it for 20 EG's, 4 VCO's, 4 VCF's, etc, etc.  Or, heck, do a
VCF
> chip
>  that represents 10 of the most popular VCF's all on the same chip.
>   >>
>
>
>
> seth,
> something like this would be very interesting assuming there was someone
> skilled enough and with access to the right design tools -- 16 eg`s on a
chip
> or some complex filter topologies -- but i can`t imagine it being
inexpensive
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> to design and do a run -- $100k - ?
> still, it might be the way to go for a company with the resources and the
> vision.
> best,
> dave
>
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

Re: Retooling

2000-02-13 by Andy Hartley

Hi

>> On a MOTM note, I have just got one of the 320's finished.  That LED is
>> great.  Could one be used in the VCEG to change colour with EG's
progress?

>Yes, but that's sort of a power hog.
>
>Paul S.


Oh well, worth a try!!

Regards

Andy

Re: Retooling

2000-02-14 by Cary Roberts

> Now, if you *were* going to do a synth chip, it would probably make sense to
> take advantage of modern packaging technology, spend more up front in design,
> verification, and layout, and end up with some monster PQFP (plastic quad 
> flat pack) or BGA (ball grid array) chip that has several hundred lines running 
> into and out of it for 20 EG's, 4 VCO's, 4 VCF's, etc, etc.  Or, heck, do a VCF 
> chip that represents 10 of the most popular VCF's all on the same chip.
>
>something like this would be very interesting assuming there was someone 
>skilled enough and with access to the right design tools -- 16 eg`s on a chip 
>or some complex filter topologies -- but i can`t imagine it being inexpensive 
>to design and do a run -- $100k - ? 
>still, it might be the way to go for a company with the resources and the 
>vision.

Alesis essentially put an analog synth on a chip with the new
Andromeda.  The EGs are digitally controlled of course, but the
oscillators, filters, and VCAs are 100% analog and all on the
same chip.  I'd say the unit sounds similar to CEM synths ala
JP6, later Bit Ones, etc.  Not as fat as a P5rev2 or memorymoog,
but certainly analog.  I think it'd be fun to build a module around
one of those chips.....

-Cary

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