MOTM

>
> Are there plans for a vanilla micro VCA? I could really use some
> more VCAs,
> and I'd rather not build an equal number of ring modulators (and
> use up that
> valuable rack space).
>

Me too! Single space vanilla VCA would be nice - or even a single space dual
REALLY vanilla VCA!

> Also, who's been using their ring mod? I'm almost (but not quite)
> ashamed to
> say that I haven't yet found good settings for it with my current gear. I
> prefer the <ducks> ring mod in my Zoom 1201. I just wonder if I'm doing
> something wrong or if it works *really great* with those
> oscillators I don't
> have so I'm missing out. They require a pretty hot input, don't they?

A couple of tips: yes, you need a hot input, because the control rejection
noise ration is not too hot.

I find it sounds best with inputs with very few harmonics, like sine or
triangle waves, else the extra harmonics of the input waveforms clash
harshly with the generated harmonics. You might try a couple of resonating
filters for inputs.

Dave Bradley
Principal Software Engineer
Engineering Animation, Inc.
daveb@...

>From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
>
>Are there plans for a vanilla micro VCA? I could really use some more VCAs,
>and I'd rather not build an equal number of ring modulators (and use up that
>valuable rack space).

I seem to remember some talk here recently about a 1u hi-fi VCA. I too
could use a few more VCA's...
>
>Also, who's been using their ring mod? I'm almost (but not quite) ashamed to
>say that I haven't yet found good settings for it with my current gear. I
>prefer the <ducks> ring mod in my Zoom 1201. I just wonder if I'm doing
>something wrong or if it works *really great* with those oscillators I don't
>have so I'm missing out. They require a pretty hot input, don't they?
>
I think you really need the 300 VCO's, or at least other VCO's that have as
strong an output as the 300. If I'm trying to ring-mod other sources, I've
been running them on an aux send from my mackie, cranked way up. I recently
ran a mix of a sludgey metal tune through 2 ring mods, modulated by
slightly out-of-tune 300's, add a nice grind that, mixed in the background,
was just the thing. IMO, the MOTM ring-mod sounds really clean and hard,
good for harsh and clangorous sounds. I also have a Craig Anderton-designed
ring mod, from the Electronics Projects for Musicians kits from PAIA, that
sounds much warmer and "rounder", if that makes any sense. Both sound
great, and have their own personalities.

Anybody compared the Blacet ring mod to the MOTM? I've got space for one
more Blacet module in my frac-rac, and am considerring the ring-mod. I just
built the Blacet mixer-processor, and it's a handy little module: a 3-input
mixer for both audio and CV, + another channel that is a simple
gain-control and inverter. Very cool little piece.

I've been getting into doing a bit of dance-ish stuff using the MOTM, I've
been listenning to a lot of really minimal Porter Ricks/Richie Hawtin stuff
lately, and the modular seems like a good tool for those kind of slowly
evolving sounds. I'm sure that my tracks would clear a dance-floor in
seconds, though...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

Are there plans for a vanilla micro VCA? I could really use some more VCAs,
and I'd rather not build an equal number of ring modulators (and use up that
valuable rack space).

Also, who's been using their ring mod? I'm almost (but not quite) ashamed to
say that I haven't yet found good settings for it with my current gear. I
prefer the <ducks> ring mod in my Zoom 1201. I just wonder if I'm doing
something wrong or if it works *really great* with those oscillators I don't
have so I'm missing out. They require a pretty hot input, don't they?

David.

You won't be sorry you did.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	David Bivins [mailto:dbivins@...]
		Sent:	Tuesday, February 08, 2000 6:04 PM
		To:	motm@onelist.com
		Subject:	RE: [motm] micro VCA? ring mod users?

		...., maybe I'll think about getting a couple oscillators!

		David.

> Anybody compared the Blacet ring mod to the MOTM? I've got space for one
> more Blacet module in my frac-rac, and am considerring the ring-mod. I just
> built the Blacet mixer-processor, and it's a handy little module: a 3-input
> mixer for both audio and CV, + another channel that is a simple
> gain-control and inverter. Very cool little piece.

I have a Klang Werk.  I haven't played it that much, but I'm impressed
with it.  I think Blacet intended it to be used largely as a 1-in 1-out
processor, with the internal carrier.  It sounds, well, clangy.  As you
said, the 110 ring mod sounds very clean and hard - to get good sounds out
of it I think you have to really know what to put in.  Klang Werk seems
to be easier to elicit musical tones from, both in and out of tune.  I
haven't tried using it without the carrier, as an "abstract ring
modulator".  Also I haven't checked its CV nulling :)  The overdrive
knob is quite nice too.

Overall it's a good sounding, interesting module.  If I moved the modular
around a lot I would probably be a little worried about the durability of
Blacet modules - although that may only be because we have MOTM to compare
it to :)  But since it's a studio only rig, no problem.  (This isn't meant
as unfair criticism of Blacet modules - I doubt anything I built DIY
would be durable enough for gigging either, unless I filled the case with
Silly Putty as somebody on synth-diy suggested!)

peace,
Chris

Thanks Dave and Dave,

The frustrating thing about using my Mackie (1604vlz) aux sends to "heat up"
my signals is that the top gain is from aux 1 and 2, and they're the only
two with prefader settings. Grrr. I like to keep those for other effects,
but I often have to sacrifice one or both just because their top end is
higher (I think that's true, having looked at the specs again recently).

Anyway, I'm thinking of a couple other things to try with it. Firstly, I
still have that HP function generator that's plenty hot. I just have to
build a new cable to connect it. Secondly, I just purchased an old, big
"audio generator" with unknown output voltage--I'm hoping to use that as an
audio modulation source for real-time sweeps (well, same purpose as the
function generator).

Thanks for the input. I'll work on it :) And as soon as I figure out how I'm
casing more modules now that my other case is full, maybe I'll think about
getting a couple oscillators!

David.

> From: Christopher Jeris <cjeris@...>
>
> I have a Klang Werk.  <<snip>>
>
> Overall it's a good sounding, interesting module.  If I
> moved the modular around a lot I would probably be 
> a little worried about the durability of Blacet modules
> - although that may only be because we have MOTM
> to compare it to :) 

Certainly we have all been spoiled to the best by Paul's never ending
commitment to quality both in circuitry and mechanics.  To me the method of
mounting the circuit board by the pots (ala Blacet) is totally lame.  For
me, this method automatically calls for modification to more secure
mounting.

>  unless I filled the case with
> Silly Putty as somebody on synth-diy suggested!)

That DIY comment was meant to be a joke.  :)

Larry Hendry

>From: "David Bivins" <dbivins@...>
>
>Thanks Dave and Dave,
>
>The frustrating thing about using my Mackie (1604vlz) aux sends to "heat up"
>my signals is that the top gain is from aux 1 and 2, and they're the only
>two with prefader settings. Grrr. I like to keep those for other effects,
>but I often have to sacrifice one or both just because their top end is
>higher (I think that's true, having looked at the specs again recently).
>
I use a 1604vlz also, and while I never knew that sends 1&2 are hotter,
I've used sends 3-6 to get signal to the ring mod and the 410 filter, and
it's been fine. I too keep 1&2 dedicated to other uses, because of the
pre-fader thing.


>Thanks for the input. I'll work on it :) And as soon as I figure out how I'm
>casing more modules now that my other case is full, maybe I'll think about
>getting a couple oscillators!
>
the problem is, no one can eat just one....

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________

>From: Christopher Jeris <cjeris@...>
>I have a Klang Werk.  I haven't played it that much, but I'm impressed
>with it.  I think Blacet intended it to be used largely as a 1-in 1-out
>processor, with the internal carrier.  It sounds, well, clangy.  As you
>said, the 110 ring mod sounds very clean and hard - to get good sounds out
>of it I think you have to really know what to put in.  Klang Werk seems
>to be easier to elicit musical tones from, both in and out of tune.  I
>haven't tried using it without the carrier, as an "abstract ring
>modulator".  Also I haven't checked its CV nulling :)  The overdrive
>knob is quite nice too.
>
>Overall it's a good sounding, interesting module.  If I moved the modular
>around a lot I would probably be a little worried about the durability of
>Blacet modules - although that may only be because we have MOTM to compare
>it to :)  But since it's a studio only rig, no problem.  (This isn't meant
>as unfair criticism of Blacet modules - I doubt anything I built DIY
>would be durable enough for gigging either, unless I filled the case with
>Silly Putty as somebody on synth-diy suggested!)
>
I have a frac-rac with 2 Dark Stars, a Frequency Divider and a
Mixer-Processor mounted in the same rack as my MOTM stuff, and all running
on the MOTM power supply. I've taken the rack to gigs before, and it has
survived, though, to be honest, I think I'm going to leave it in the studio
from now on. The Blacet stuff is not as robust as as MOTM, definitely, but
it seems sturdier than my Doepfer rack. I've been slowly replacing the 1/8"
jacks in the Blacet with 1/4".

Speaking of MOTM for gigging, has anyone ever considered building a
MiniMOTM? I was thinking about a basic voice channel (2 or 3 VCO's, an LFO,
a noise source, a 420 filter, 2 EG's and a VCA) into a pop-up rack, and
maybe with normalled connections, though with the option of patching of
course. Seems like it'd make a killer mono-synth!

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@...  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________