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2012-10-26 by Argitoth
2012-10-26 by Steve
--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Argitoth <argitoth@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, I never knew there was a book on how to patch a modular synth.
> Where can I find out more? I really want to learn some of Elhardt's
> secrets to acoustic sounds.
>
> --
> www.elanhickler.com
>
2012-10-27 by Kenneth Elhardt
> From: Steve
> Subject: [motm] Re: motm patch book? wha?
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, October 26, 2012, 1:15 PM
> It's a pdf file and 2 accompanying
> mp3 files. There are 4 patches total in it, all drum
> patches. They all involve a 15 band EQ. It was supposed to
> be the first of a larger set, for which a few of us paid for
> and are still waiting. This was created back in 2006.
> Kenneth is a lazy man (in the Lebowski scheme of things) so
> my guess is that nothing else from him along these lines is
> ever going to happen. It's not available for purchase
> anywhere at the moment as far as I know, so I'll send it
> along to anyone who wants it unless specifically told not to
> (soon!) by the powers that be.
2012-10-27 by George Kisslak
On Oct 26, 2012, at 8:51 PM, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
> In this case the powers that be would be Paul... I don't know what lazy in the Lebowski scheme of things means, but I might as well cut and paste my offline response to somebody else from a few weeks ago about the patchbook thing:
>
> "The intention was to do more and I had talked to Paul about what other types of patches I might do. But doing the thing was more or a pain in the ass then anticipated, and some of the modules I had hoped MOTM would come out with that I'd want to trade for never materialized. Paul ended up charging twice as much for the patchbook edition than what he seemed to indicate to me he had planned and I wasn't sure (and am still not sure) how popular it was. Paul always seemed busy and now he's not even here anymore. It just kind of fizzled out."
>
> -Elhardt
>
>
>
>> From: Steve
>> Subject: [motm] Re: motm patch book? wha?
>> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Friday, October 26, 2012, 1:15 PM
>> It's a pdf file and 2 accompanying
>> mp3 files. There are 4 patches total in it, all drum
>> patches. They all involve a 15 band EQ. It was supposed to
>> be the first of a larger set, for which a few of us paid for
>> and are still waiting. This was created back in 2006.
>> Kenneth is a lazy man (in the Lebowski scheme of things) so
>> my guess is that nothing else from him along these lines is
>> ever going to happen. It's not available for purchase
>> anywhere at the moment as far as I know, so I'll send it
>> along to anyone who wants it unless specifically told not to
>> (soon!) by the powers that be.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
2012-10-27 by Kenneth Elhardt
> From: George Kisslak
> Hey Ken, didn't you put that great
> brass patch you had out there at one point?
2012-10-27 by Argitoth
2012-10-27 by John L Rice
Elan,
One book I would recommend you reading is The Acoustical Foundations of Music by John Backus:
http://www.amazon.com/Acoustical-Foundations-Music-Second-Edition/dp/0393090965
John L Rice
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Argitoth
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:33 PM
To: Kenneth Elhardt
Cc: George Kisslak; motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: motm patch book? wha?
Hey Elhardt, I think I understand your frustration now. This is my guess. Paul wanted you to create acoustic-sounding patch examples using MOTM modules so that Paul could advertise MOTM as being able to do such a thing, which would amaze people and increase MOTM sales. I'm guessing this idea had nothing to do with you. I think it's a bad idea. No one needs MOTM modules to do what you do, but I see Paul's logic. People are easily amazed by your work. People say:
"HOW DO YOU DO IT? Tell me exactly what modules you used, exactly how they were set, draw a patch diagram, give me a step-by-step instructions, spoon feed me!"
For those people who talk like that, all this synth stuff is a hobby and they'll never contribute to the betterment analog synths. By creating this MOTM patch book you are targeting the "spoon feed me!" audience. That's the wrong audience. For the few who actually care and could benefit, such as myself, I would never ask for a patch diagram nor ask what company's product you used. I wish you could create a book that speaks of theory and synthesis techniques, tips, tricks, and insight. It would answer questions such as:
How is sync useful for a violin emulation?
What frequencies must be removed or added to create the correct formants for an oboe?
What waveshapes are best for clarinet?
How do you analyze something you want to synthesize and start attempting to do it?
I'd buy it. If not a book, then whatever you feel inspired to create. I think what people don't understand Mr. Elhardt, is that you DO actually want to spread your knowledge, and you've proven that to me. I hope you find a way to spread your knowledge in a way that keeps you going (makes you $$$), keeps you inspired, and provides knowledge to those who can benefit.
Thanks for all the advice you've given me already! I hope didn't miss the mark with this e-mail...
-Elan Hickler
2012-10-27 by Kenneth Elhardt
>>Hey Elhardt, I think I understand your frustration now. This is my guess. Paul wanted you to create acoustic-sounding patch examples using MOTM modules so that Paul could advertise MOTM as being able to do such a thing, which would amaze people and increase MOTM sales. I'm guessing this idea had nothing to do with you. I think it's a bad idea. No one needs MOTM modules to do what you do, but I see Paul's logic.<<I'm not sure it was all about sales. It might also have been something to provide to people to learn more about programming their MOTM synths. But that was the other problem. On a fixed architecture synth like a Minimoog, you can provide a patch and everybody can dial it in. But with a modular synth where everybody has different modules, so it's not so easy. I tend to use other pieces of gear along with my MOTM too. Anybody who is serious about synthesis should have graphic and parametric EQ's, digital multi effects, phaseshifters, flangers, chorus units, filter banks, etc., but not everybody does. And when I'd try to light a fire under their asses to get some decent and sophisticated external gear, the conversation would degenerate into the usual obsession with some imaginary magical tonal quality of the gear rather than what it actually does.
>>For those people who talk like that, all this synth stuff is a hobby and they'll never contribute to the betterment analog synths. By creating this MOTM patch book you are targeting the "spoon feed me!" audience. That's the wrong audience. For the few who actually care and could benefit, such as myself, I would never ask for a patch diagram nor ask what company's product you used. I wish you could create a book that speaks of theory and synthesis techniques, tips, tricks, and insight.<<Doing a book like that for such a small audience in a field that's dead just doesn't seem like a good use of time. With all these synth forums though, you'd think they'd be a place to disgust such things, but there is very little interest. I've put out some audio files and also mentioned some new and powerful techniques and tricks in the past, but they're soon forgotten and none of it ever leads to anybody using those techniques to do something worth listening to. It's the same thing for hardware too. There are so many synth companies pumping out modules of all kinds and none of it has had any effect.
>>How is sync useful for a violin emulation?What frequencies must be removed or added to create the correct formants for an oboe?
>>I hope you find a way to spread your knowledge in a way that keeps you going (makes you $$$), keeps you inspired, and provides knowledge to those who can benefit.<<Well what will make me some money is completing some pieces of gear that nobody else can do. That's what I'm working on now. Also in theory the synth world needs a decent filter bank, and not the lame Moog-style fixed filter banks every company keeps beating to death. I say in theory, because even if I can get one put out on the market, it too will not improve the depressing synth situation and will not create the next Tomita. But at least I'll have one to use and some people will buy one to put in their rack to be ignored and collect dust.
2012-10-27 by Miguel Mendoza
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Argitoth
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 9:33 PM
To: Kenneth Elhardt
Cc: George Kisslak; motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [motm] Re: motm patch book? wha?
Hey Elhardt, I think I understand your frustration now. This is my guess. Paul wanted you to create acoustic-sounding patch examples using MOTM modules so that Paul could advertise MOTM as being able to do such a thing, which would amaze people and increase MOTM sales. I'm guessing this idea had nothing to do with you. I think it's a bad idea. No one needs MOTM modules to do what you do, but I see Paul's logic. People are easily amazed by your work. People say:
"HOW DO YOU DO IT? Tell me exactly what modules you used, exactly how they were set, draw a patch diagram, give me a step-by-step instructions, spoon feed me!"
For those people who talk like that, all this synth stuff is a hobby and they'll never contribute to the betterment analog synths. By creating this MOTM patch book you are targeting the "spoon feed me!" audience. That's the wrong audience. For the few who actually care and could benefit, such as myself, I would never ask for a patch diagram nor ask what company's product you used. I wish you could create a book that speaks of theory and synthesis techniques, tips, tricks, and insight. It would answer questions such as:
How is sync useful for a violin emulation?
What frequencies must be removed or added to create the correct formants for an oboe?
What waveshapes are best for clarinet?
How do you analyze something you want to synthesize and start attempting to do it?
I'd buy it. If not a book, then whatever you feel inspired to create. I think what people don't understand Mr. Elhardt, is that you DO actually want to spread your knowledge, and you've proven that to me. I hope you find a way to spread your knowledge in a way that keeps you going (makes you $$$), keeps you inspired, and provides knowledge to those who can benefit.
Thanks for all the advice you've given me already! I hope didn't miss the mark with this e-mail...
-Elan Hickler
2012-10-27 by George Kisslak
On Oct 27, 2012, at 6:10 AM, Kenneth Elhardt wrote:
> In response to Argitoth,
>
>>> Hey Elhardt, I think I understand your frustration now. This is my guess. Paul wanted you to create acoustic-sounding patch examples using MOTM modules so that Paul could advertise MOTM as being able to do such a thing, which would amaze people and increase MOTM sales. I'm guessing this idea had nothing to do with you. I think it's a bad idea. No one needs MOTM modules to do what you do, but I see Paul's logic.<<
>
> I'm not sure it was all about sales. It might also have been something to provide to people to learn more about programming their MOTM synths. But that was the other problem. On a fixed architecture synth like a Minimoog, you can provide a patch and everybody can dial it in. But with a modular synth where everybody has different modules, so it's not so easy. I tend to use other pieces of gear along with my MOTM too. Anybody who is serious about synthesis should have graphic and parametric EQ's, digital multi effects, phaseshifters, flangers, chorus units, filter banks, etc., but not everybody does. And when I'd try to light a fire under their asses to get some decent and sophisticated external gear, the conversation would degenerate into the usual obsession with some imaginary magical tonal quality of the gear rather than what it actually does.
>
>>> For those people who talk like that, all this synth stuff is a hobby and they'll never contribute to the betterment analog synths. By creating this MOTM patch book you are targeting the "spoon feed me!" audience. That's the wrong audience. For the few who actually care and could benefit, such as myself, I would never ask for a patch diagram nor ask what company's product you used. I wish you could create a book that speaks of theory and synthesis techniques, tips, tricks, and insight.<<
>
> Doing a book like that for such a small audience in a field that's dead just doesn't seem like a good use of time. With all these synth forums though, you'd think they'd be a place to disgust such things, but there is very little interest. I've put out some audio files and also mentioned some new and powerful techniques and tricks in the past, but they're soon forgotten and none of it ever leads to anybody using those techniques to do something worth listening to. It's the same thing for hardware too. There are so many synth companies pumping out modules of all kinds and none of it has had any effect.
>
>>> How is sync useful for a violin emulation?
> What frequencies must be removed or added to create the correct formants for an oboe?
> What waveshapes are best for clarinet?
> How do you analyze something you want to synthesize and start attempting to do it?<<
>
> (1) I sync one osc to another and then hit one of the oscs with enveloped noise to cause the sync'd osc to sync to a randomly changing osc which gives a scraping bow sound.
> (2) Oboe has two predominant formants, which I can't remember right now, but can be looked up on the web. Use two filters in parallel with quite a bit of resonance.
> (3) Clarinet can be a squarewave with a bit of highpass filtered sawtooth an octave higher to fill in some even harmonics, and then look up clarinet formant(s) on the web and boost that freq up.
> (4) Most synthesis is done by ear, but for some things you can run an FFT to see it's harmonic content and formants.
>
>>> I hope you find a way to spread your knowledge in a way that keeps you going (makes you $$$), keeps you inspired, and provides knowledge to those who can benefit.<<
>
> Well what will make me some money is completing some pieces of gear that nobody else can do. That's what I'm working on now. Also in theory the synth world needs a decent filter bank, and not the lame Moog-style fixed filter banks every company keeps beating to death. I say in theory, because even if I can get one put out on the market, it too will not improve the depressing synth situation and will not create the next Tomita. But at least I'll have one to use and some people will buy one to put in their rack to be ignored and collect dust.
>
> -Elhardt
>
2012-10-27 by Argitoth
2012-10-27 by Argitoth
2012-10-28 by Kenneth Elhardt
>>Please, let me recommend also Electronic Music: Systems, Techniques, and Controls by Allen Strange. It's a very difficult to get book, I bought mine on Ebay for 100$ many years ago but I have seen a pdf scan to download sometimes around the net.<<I found a copy of that on the net, but like all synth books, it covers the basics. You're not going to be able to patch up a realistic cymbal, violin, human chorus, piano, diesel train passing by, or symphony orchestra on an analog synth from any book that's out there.
>>I think there was a rough patch diagram for one of Robert Rich's signature glorp sounds shared long ago that helped me a lot as well.<<I remember there was some random talking patch of his that was interesting that I thought was on the Synthtech site, but it later disappeared.
>>You're still working on that hardware project??<<I'm working on the software for several software and hardware projects. And there's the possibility one of them may end up being used by Google in the viewing of youtube videos.
>>I asked some hypothetical example question of what a book might answer, and Ken didn't hesitate to answer them, and I didn't know a +oct sawtooth would help fill out clarinet harmonics.<<A real clarinet has predominant odd harmonics in the lower frequencies, but the higher you go, the more the even harmonics come up in amplitude. So if you want to be accurate, that's a way to do it.
>>I strongly believe I have you beat in the synth rain department, and when I have my modular synth complete I will have to recreate it and share my method, although it was originally created on VSTs.<<Sounds very good (If I were on my PC I wouldn't be able to hear it because SoundCloud doesn't work on that computer. More of that incompetent website programming I mentioned before). I'm not sure what of mine you're comparing to because I don't think I have mine online anywhere except Youtube where they bumped my hi-fi stereo audio to lo-fi mono now sounding crappy (Yet more of that idiotic website programming by incompetent morons that I mentioned earlier). Mine probably sounds more flat like rain on concrete, but it could be post filtered to sound different. It was a simple patch on a Supernova synth with its modulation and filter limits.
>>also wanted share my synthesized warfare with you (all digital synth)<<Some of that sounds kind of like a warfare pinball machine in places. Fun to listen to though. I have some synthesized warfare sounds in the game Beachhead 2000 I did, including bullets hitting a metal shield that sound quite good (Roland JP-8080), and also an old warfare thing done in about 20 minutes on a Roland SH-7. One day I want to sit down and do a very realistic one on my MOTM so I can dispose of my SH-7 one. That could be a patchbook right there.
2012-10-28 by Argitoth
>>I found a copy of that on the net, but like all synth books, it covers the basics. You're not going to be able to patch up a realistic cymbal, violin, human chorus, piano, diesel train passing by, or symphony orchestra on an analog synth from any book that's out there.