MOTM

A 50 unit minimum looks to me like an awfully high bar to reach. Especially at $400 per. And the rest of the criteria isn’t clear to me. Are you saying you need 50 MOTM AND 50 MU (going by the $40,000 figure you throw out) before we’ve got a run? Regardless, I don’t see how this is going to happen. Echoing Thomas’ sentiment, my MOTM ‘investment’ has not been pretty.

Greg James

This is sort of a 2-part MOTM issue

MOTM as DIY-based

Certainly since the first module the kits out-sold the assembled like 25:1. In some modules probably 75:1. Things went OK until the RoHS directive killed both the Switchcraft jacks and the Spectrol pots at once. It took nearly 2 years to get those parts back and running, only to have Vishay (that made the RoHS version) drive the price from $1.80 to $7.50. This clogged the pipeline, blew up the backlog and it was not until BI came out with the P260 family that I could finally get going. This is just on the “business” side of things.

So, I decided to have Scott at BrideChamber take over and I think he has done a great job. The parts, kits, panels and pc boards are still there.

But what is missing? New offerings specifically for DIYers. (and some MOTM kits I need to ship out, more on that later).

I have not decided yet if the ROI (return on investment) is worth it for doing more DIY-specific MOTM modules. Right now I am thinking not.

MOTM as Assembled

The current MOTM modules were not engineered to be ‘quick’ to assemble, in fact (and you know who you are) some folks think the longer it takes/the more parts the better the overall fun factor. Which is exactly what DIYers want but not exactly great for one-at-a-time assembly. It’s not that the ROI isn’t good (it is) but the time required is a problem.

MOTM as a ‘Hobby’

It started as a hobby and I want it to remain a hobby. I do NOT want to do this 100% as my ‘living’. But since Jan. it has been (and hopefully next month will revert back to full hobby status). I have focused on Euro because that is how I have to support my family. I have NOT ignored MOTM entirely but yes Euro has “stolen” the bulk of time because it is necessary to do so. I do not like doing this, it is not fair to 5U customers but it is just what has to be done now.

I have interviewed twice recently and feel at least 1 of them will result in full time, with health insurance benefits, employment. This will allow me to then go back to 5U more and more. Note that I may have to physically move (again) so there will be 3-4 weeks where not much will go on. May people take holiday/vacation in August so it’s a good time to move anyway. I will not know for sure until next week. But I am optimistic.

Will there ever be new 5U stuff?

Yes, but as assembled. And I will start with going to Kickstarter (www.kickstarter.com) in order to judge the demand. In this way, no money exchanges hands until a goal is reached (in dollars, but that is just a minimum number of modules). SMT tooling is expensive, like $900. Each pc board run is $250 setup on the machines. The prices will be “high” (say in the $400 range) initially. But with SMT assembly, I can go from the boards in front of me to a finished, calibrated module in about 9 minutes. The years of waiting are over, I can build 50 modules a week in my spare time.

I think offering a 50 module minimum run is fair and the way Kickstarter is set up I can ship more than 50 but not LESS than 50. So if for example I offer a 5U and a MU Cloud Generator both at $400 with 50 of each and there is a dollar pledge over $40,000 then I would just make more and everyone that pledged gets a module. I think this is fair, I do not even have to buy parts until the goal is met, unlike the current way where I have to HOPE there is a demand. I could split it and say “as long as I get 80 modules of a mix of MU/5U we have a go”.

BUT….I will NOT do this until EVERY current MOTM user has their modules from me. I might tinker on the CAD system beforehand but nothing ‘official’ until then.

And when will this be?

The honest answer: I have no idea. Will it be in 2012? Yes it will but not going to say ‘by Oct 1’ or whatever. Because I never hit the dates anyway. So instead of a watch or calendar I’m looking at the leaves of tress J A LOT may happen in the next 6 weeks. I may not get a job offer and then the 5U time is what it is now.

If people think MOTM is ‘dead’ or in a ‘death spiral’ or they feel ‘abandoned’ they certainly have the data to point to that. And it’s 100% on me. But as Granny liked to say, “The proof is in the pudding”. So, after I get the MOTM backlog  shipped, and I post the modules to KickStarter (there will be 3 of them) then the user base will decide MOTM’s fate.

Paul S.

Any answer to my question below? If the module is compelling enough, I have no problem with $400. I just don’t believe there’s enough demand at $400 to reach 100 units. And then we’re back to not seeing anything at any price.

Also, what happened to the notion of a little production design, like designing the PCBs for *multiple* formats. Main module PCBs with a standardized connector for a format-specific daughterboard (yeah, a few bucks more, but they could be standardized and end up cheap)?

If that’s too ambitious then just add power connectors and whatever other pads are needed for MOTM to the opposite end of the monolithic PCB. Have the MOTM power connector soldered on along with the Euro hardware. Just make a run where you save $2.55 + the cost of pots and jacks by not having them do those operations. This is standard production stuff and doesn’t really cost to have them do.

Worst case when we retro-fit a Euro module to MOTM, we cut off the Euro pots, jacks, etc. and solder wires the old fashioned way to the proper pads. Bridechamber still gets to sell us MOTM panels and parts.

-Greg

A 50 unit minimum looks to me like an awfully high bar to reach. Especially at $400 per. And the rest of the criteria isn’t clear to me. Are you saying you need 50 MOTM AND 50 MU (going by the $40,000 figure you throw out) before we’ve got a run? Regardless, I don’t see how this is going to happen. Echoing Thomas’ sentiment, my MOTM ‘investment’ has not been pretty.

Greg James

This is sort of a 2-part MOTM issue

MOTM as DIY-based

Certainly since the first module the kits out-sold the assembled like 25:1. In some modules probably 75:1. Things went OK until the RoHS directive killed both the Switchcraft jacks and the Spectrol pots at once. It took nearly 2 years to get those parts back and running, only to have Vishay (that made the RoHS version) drive the price from $1.80 to $7.50. This clogged the pipeline, blew up the backlog and it was not until BI came out with the P260 family that I could finally get going. This is just on the “business” side of things.

So, I decided to have Scott at BrideChamber take over and I think he has done a great job. The parts, kits, panels and pc boards are still there.

But what is missing? New offerings specifically for DIYers. (and some MOTM kits I need to ship out, more on that later).

I have not decided yet if the ROI (return on investment) is worth it for doing more DIY-specific MOTM modules. Right now I am thinking not.

MOTM as Assembled

The current MOTM modules were not engineered to be ‘quick’ to assemble, in fact (and you know who you are) some folks think the longer it takes/the more parts the better the overall fun factor. Which is exactly what DIYers want but not exactly great for one-at-a-time assembly. It’s not that the ROI isn’t good (it is) but the time required is a problem.

MOTM as a ‘Hobby’

It started as a hobby and I want it to remain a hobby. I do NOT want to do this 100% as my ‘living’. But since Jan. it has been (and hopefully next month will revert back to full hobby status). I have focused on Euro because that is how I have to support my family. I have NOT ignored MOTM entirely but yes Euro has “stolen” the bulk of time because it is necessary to do so. I do not like doing this, it is not fair to 5U customers but it is just what has to be done now.

I have interviewed twice recently and feel at least 1 of them will result in full time, with health insurance benefits, employment. This will allow me to then go back to 5U more and more. Note that I may have to physically move (again) so there will be 3-4 weeks where not much will go on. May people take holiday/vacation in August so it’s a good time to move anyway. I will not know for sure until next week. But I am optimistic.

Will there ever be new 5U stuff?

Yes, but as assembled. And I will start with going to Kickstarter (www.kickstarter.com) in order to judge the demand. In this way, no money exchanges hands until a goal is reached (in dollars, but that is just a minimum number of modules). SMT tooling is expensive, like $900. Each pc board run is $250 setup on the machines. The prices will be “high” (say in the $400 range) initially. But with SMT assembly, I can go from the boards in front of me to a finished, calibrated module in about 9 minutes. The years of waiting are over, I can build 50 modules a week in my spare time.

I think offering a 50 module minimum run is fair and the way Kickstarter is set up I can ship more than 50 but not LESS than 50. So if for example I offer a 5U and a MU Cloud Generator both at $400 with 50 of each and there is a dollar pledge over $40,000 then I would just make more and everyone that pledged gets a module. I think this is fair, I do not even have to buy parts until the goal is met, unlike the current way where I have to HOPE there is a demand. I could split it and say “as long as I get 80 modules of a mix of MU/5U we have a go”.

BUT….I will NOT do this until EVERY current MOTM user has their modules from me. I might tinker on the CAD system beforehand but nothing ‘official’ until then.

And when will this be?

The honest answer: I have no idea. Will it be in 2012? Yes it will but not going to say ‘by Oct 1’ or whatever. Because I never hit the dates anyway. So instead of a watch or calendar I’m looking at the leaves of tress J A LOT may happen in the next 6 weeks. I may not get a job offer and then the 5U time is what it is now.

If people think MOTM is ‘dead’ or in a ‘death spiral’ or they feel ‘abandoned’ they certainly have the data to point to that. And it’s 100% on me. But as Granny liked to say, “The proof is in the pudding”. So, after I get the MOTM backlog  shipped, and I post the modules to KickStarter (there will be 3 of them) then the user base will decide MOTM’s fate.

Paul S.

Apologies to John – I didn’t see his response until just now. Yeah – what he said J

-Greg

Any answer to my question below? If the module is compelling enough, I have no problem with $400. I just don’t believe there’s enough demand at $400 to reach 100 units. And then we’re back to not seeing anything at any price.

Also, what happened to the notion of a little production design, like designing the PCBs for *multiple* formats. Main module PCBs with a standardized connector for a format-specific daughterboard (yeah, a few bucks more, but they could be standardized and end up cheap)?

If that’s too ambitious then just add power connectors and whatever other pads are needed for MOTM to the opposite end of the monolithic PCB. Have the MOTM power connector soldered on along with the Euro hardware. Just make a run where you save $2.55 + the cost of pots and jacks by not having them do those operations. This is standard production stuff and doesn’t really cost to have them do.

Worst case when we retro-fit a Euro module to MOTM, we cut off the Euro pots, jacks, etc. and solder wires the old fashioned way to the proper pads. Bridechamber still gets to sell us MOTM panels and parts.

-Greg

A 50 unit minimum looks to me like an awfully high bar to reach. Especially at $400 per. And the rest of the criteria isn’t clear to me. Are you saying you need 50 MOTM AND 50 MU (going by the $40,000 figure you throw out) before we’ve got a run? Regardless, I don’t see how this is going to happen. Echoing Thomas’ sentiment, my MOTM ‘investment’ has not been pretty.

Greg James

This is sort of a 2-part MOTM issue

MOTM as DIY-based

Certainly since the first module the kits out-sold the assembled like 25:1. In some modules probably 75:1. Things went OK until the RoHS directive killed both the Switchcraft jacks and the Spectrol pots at once. It took nearly 2 years to get those parts back and running, only to have Vishay (that made the RoHS version) drive the price from $1.80 to $7.50. This clogged the pipeline, blew up the backlog and it was not until BI came out with the P260 family that I could finally get going. This is just on the “business” side of things.

So, I decided to have Scott at BrideChamber take over and I think he has done a great job. The parts, kits, panels and pc boards are still there.

But what is missing? New offerings specifically for DIYers. (and some MOTM kits I need to ship out, more on that later).

I have not decided yet if the ROI (return on investment) is worth it for doing more DIY-specific MOTM modules. Right now I am thinking not.

MOTM as Assembled

The current MOTM modules were not engineered to be ‘quick’ to assemble, in fact (and you know who you are) some folks think the longer it takes/the more parts the better the overall fun factor. Which is exactly what DIYers want but not exactly great for one-at-a-time assembly. It’s not that the ROI isn’t good (it is) but the time required is a problem.

MOTM as a ‘Hobby’

It started as a hobby and I want it to remain a hobby. I do NOT want to do this 100% as my ‘living’. But since Jan. it has been (and hopefully next month will revert back to full hobby status). I have focused on Euro because that is how I have to support my family. I have NOT ignored MOTM entirely but yes Euro has “stolen” the bulk of time because it is necessary to do so. I do not like doing this, it is not fair to 5U customers but it is just what has to be done now.

I have interviewed twice recently and feel at least 1 of them will result in full time, with health insurance benefits, employment. This will allow me to then go back to 5U more and more. Note that I may have to physically move (again) so there will be 3-4 weeks where not much will go on. May people take holiday/vacation in August so it’s a good time to move anyway. I will not know for sure until next week. But I am optimistic.

Will there ever be new 5U stuff?

Yes, but as assembled. And I will start with going to Kickstarter (www.kickstarter.com) in order to judge the demand. In this way, no money exchanges hands until a goal is reached (in dollars, but that is just a minimum number of modules). SMT tooling is expensive, like $900. Each pc board run is $250 setup on the machines. The prices will be “high” (say in the $400 range) initially. But with SMT assembly, I can go from the boards in front of me to a finished, calibrated module in about 9 minutes. The years of waiting are over, I can build 50 modules a week in my spare time.

I think offering a 50 module minimum run is fair and the way Kickstarter is set up I can ship more than 50 but not LESS than 50. So if for example I offer a 5U and a MU Cloud Generator both at $400 with 50 of each and there is a dollar pledge over $40,000 then I would just make more and everyone that pledged gets a module. I think this is fair, I do not even have to buy parts until the goal is met, unlike the current way where I have to HOPE there is a demand. I could split it and say “as long as I get 80 modules of a mix of MU/5U we have a go”.

BUT….I will NOT do this until EVERY current MOTM user has their modules from me. I might tinker on the CAD system beforehand but nothing ‘official’ until then.

And when will this be?

The honest answer: I have no idea. Will it be in 2012? Yes it will but not going to say ‘by Oct 1’ or whatever. Because I never hit the dates anyway. So instead of a watch or calendar I’m looking at the leaves of tress J A LOT may happen in the next 6 weeks. I may not get a job offer and then the 5U time is what it is now.

If people think MOTM is ‘dead’ or in a ‘death spiral’ or they feel ‘abandoned’ they certainly have the data to point to that. And it’s 100% on me. But as Granny liked to say, “The proof is in the pudding”. So, after I get the MOTM backlog  shipped, and I post the modules to KickStarter (there will be 3 of them) then the user base will decide MOTM’s fate.

Paul S.