MOTM

> Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> not for everyone.
>

a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is quite a bit 
less than 'retail'.

b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
about $30. That's an issue?

I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
*innovative*. Does anyone else
even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
counters behind a panel
to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.

I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can break even 
just sitting here looking out
the window.

It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And truthfully, 
right now I'm starting to wonder
what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0 stuff. There 
are over 15 modular
providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM designers 
have yet to be out-designed in
any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound and other 
factors is making me second-guess
all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of design time 
put into each module versus return
on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those 5 pc 
boards interconnect, the tightness of
the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can see 
where the time was spent. Before this
version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW could be 
tested over and over again as not to
have any issues down the road.

I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is done, and 
so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is *just* 
for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
that I need to sell about 25 to break even.

And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell 50-60 
'520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
MOTM-730s right away.

So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell something that 
has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).

If so, then what exactly IS of interest?

Paul S.
/excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....

I never would consider MOTM to be the cheapest.  I've always considered it to be quality.
 
I think the problem really is the economy.  With the exception of the ones I ordered during the MOTM sale, I haven't ordered a new pre-assembled module in almost a year.  
 
Ross Stapf
Cedar Hill TX

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Paul Schreiber <synth1@...> wrote:

From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
Subject: [motm] [RANT] MOTM value?
To: motm@yahoogroups.com, "Girts R" <boss@...>
Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 2:18 PM







> Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> not for everyone.
>

a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is quite a bit 
less than 'retail'.

b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
about $30. That's an issue?

I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
*innovative* . Does anyone else
even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
counters behind a panel
to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.

I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can break even 
just sitting here looking out
the window.

It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And truthfully, 
right now I'm starting to wonder
what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0 stuff. There 
are over 15 modular
providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM designers 
have yet to be out-designed in
any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound and other 
factors is making me second-guess
all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of design time 
put into each module versus return
on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those 5 pc 
boards interconnect, the tightness of
the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can see 
where the time was spent. Before this
version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW could be 
tested over and over again as not to
have any issues down the road.

I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is done, and 
so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is *just* 
for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
that I need to sell about 25 to break even.

And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell 50-60 
'520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
MOTM-730s right away.

So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell something that 
has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).

If so, then what exactly IS of interest?

Paul S.
/excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow.... sigh.....

I agree, The reason I got into MOTM was the Kits, this was the way I
could afford to get a modular.  I love my Motm,  With the economy the
way it is I will have to put new moduals on hold.  My biz is so far
down that I am having a problem seeing out.  In the last year I lost
both my Mom and Dad and have not even sat at the monster Motm in
months.  I wish I could figure out a way to get a 730, but not now.



Good luck to all of you!

John in hot Miami

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Ross Stapf <pristak@...> wrote:

From: Ross Stapf <pristak@...>
Subject: Re: [motm] [RANT] MOTM value?
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 5:12 PM











    
            I never would consider MOTM to be the cheapest.  I've always considered it to be quality.
 
I think the problem really is the economy.  With the exception of the ones I ordered during the MOTM sale, I haven't ordered a new pre-assembled module in almost a year.  
 
Ross Stapf
Cedar Hill TX

--- On Wed, 2/11/09, Paul Schreiber <synth1@airmail. net> wrote:

From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@airmail. net>
Subject: [motm] [RANT] MOTM value?
To: motm@yahoogroups. com, "Girts R" <boss@santa.lv>
Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 2:18 PM





> Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> not for everyone.
>

a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is quite a bit 
less than 'retail'.

b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
about $30. That's an issue?

I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
*innovative* . Does anyone else
even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
counters behind a panel
to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.

I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can break even 
just sitting here looking out
the window.

It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And truthfully, 
right now I'm starting to wonder
what to do looking
 forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0 stuff. There 
are over 15 modular
providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM designers 
have yet to be out-designed in
any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound and other 
factors is making me second-guess
all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of design time 
put into each module versus return
on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those 5 pc 
boards interconnect, the tightness of
the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can see 
where the time was spent. Before this
version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW could be 
tested over and over again as not to
have any issues down the road.

I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is done, and 
so are many of the part purchases (over
 $7,500, BTW).
But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is *just* 
for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
that I need to sell about 25 to break even.

And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell 50-60 
'520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
MOTM-730s right away.

So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell something that 
has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).

If so, then what exactly IS of interest?

Paul S.
/excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow.... sigh.....

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:

...And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
50-60 
> '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
> MOTM-730s right away.
> 
> So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
something that 
> has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).
> 
> If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
> 
> Paul S.
> /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....
>

Ok, I'll bite...

The recent announcement of Volta has made me question whether it makes
sense to devote much of the dwindling space in my cabinets to control
modules -- sequencers, utility CV/logic modules, and yes, the MOTM-730
-- or to leave that kind of work to the computer, and devote space
(and of course dollars) to voices/modulators/effects.  

Much as I'd love to have whole cabinet full of blinkenlight modules,
the idea of computer-controlled logic driving analog sound generation
has a lot of appeal. I already have the computer, Logic, Live, Max,
and a MOTM-650, so the additional investment would be one second-hand
MOTU converter.  

I probably have a 730 in my future, but this is where my thoughts are
this week, anyway.

JN

I half agree with this.  I think Volta is very cool and the computer is 
great at handling control tasks.  I think it would be wise to focus on 
generation/manipulation modules but don't think they have to be analog.

I'd really like to see a dual or more digital oscillator designed for FM 
with CV in for FM index.  This would fit into the Audio Engine realm 
nicely.  I'm sure the AE could do more than 2 operators but I'd be 
excited about even 2.  Maybe the AE should have a display so knob 
parameters can be accurately viewed.  This would be a big help with FM 
since FM is very sensitive to small changes.

I think the AE can make economic sense because the hardware could be 
used for multiple modules.

Dave

jneilnyc wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com <mailto:motm%40yahoogroups.com>, "Paul 
> Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:
> 
> ...And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
> 50-60
>  > '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for
>  > MOTM-730s right away.
>  >
>  > So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
> something that
>  > has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).
>  >
>  > If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
>  >
>  > Paul S.
>  > /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....
>  >
> 
> Ok, I'll bite...
> 
>

When I first researched my modular I went with MOTM simply because hands
downs there was no equal in quality! I'm really grateful for all the hard
work Paul has put into his "little hobby" to make it the best it could be!

 

In my case my reason for not purchases any modules lately has little do
with the economy.  As an early customer I've quite simply achieved my goal.
Actually my MOTM exceeds my original goal by about 20 modules (funny how
that works!)! The new modules for my uses are more "specialty" then my
current needs. That's not to say I haven't drooled over them! I'm now
focusing on other areas of my rig. Will I buy some of the new modules such
as the 730 or 600? Maybe but I just don't have a need for them right now. On
the other hand being a self confessed filter junkie  I DO have a use for the
450 Fixed Filter bank!!!

 

Al

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Schreiber
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:19 PM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com; Girts R
Subject: [motm] [RANT] MOTM value?

 


> Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> not for everyone.
>

a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is quite a bit

less than 'retail'.

b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
about $30. That's an issue?

I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
*innovative*. Does anyone else
even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
counters behind a panel
to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.

I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can break even 
just sitting here looking out
the window.

It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And truthfully, 
right now I'm starting to wonder
what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0 stuff. There 
are over 15 modular
providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM designers

have yet to be out-designed in
any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound and other 
factors is making me second-guess
all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of design time 
put into each module versus return
on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those 5 pc 
boards interconnect, the tightness of
the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can see 
where the time was spent. Before this
version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW could be

tested over and over again as not to
have any issues down the road.

I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is done, and 
so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is *just* 
for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
that I need to sell about 25 to break even.

And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell 50-60 
'520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
MOTM-730s right away.

So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell something that

has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).

If so, then what exactly IS of interest?

Paul S.
/excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....

See message #30853 New policy: invoicing all foreign shipments
``Every order sent will have an invoice for the amount you paid`` --
this means I will have to pay VAT for *that* amount (including postage
costs). Sorry if I misunderstood here something.
Anyway,I can not afford to buy (and then sell) crap and toys of fashion. 
MOTM was/is the most inexpensive quality modular synth I can get.
I think I am only one in my country with MOTM synth, and there is a
reason for that :(  


I am still interested in MOTM 520/521 and I will buy it 
(actually, I already placed an order when it was for sale years ago).
However, more useful would be MOTM (dual) digital sine osc (dedicated
for the FM) and
MOTM digital parametric EQ(just steep highpass and one band, all
voltage controllable), but
I understand, this could be out of mainstream interest.

Girts




--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> > modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> > not for everyone.
> >
> 
> a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is
quite a bit 
> less than 'retail'.
> 
> b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
> about $30. That's an issue?
> 
> I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
> *innovative*. Does anyone else
> even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
> counters behind a panel
> to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.
> 
> I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can
break even 
> just sitting here looking out
> the window.
> 
> It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And
truthfully, 
> right now I'm starting to wonder
> what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0
stuff. There 
> are over 15 modular
> providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM
designers 
> have yet to be out-designed in
> any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound
and other 
> factors is making me second-guess
> all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of
design time 
> put into each module versus return
> on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those
5 pc 
> boards interconnect, the tightness of
> the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can
see 
> where the time was spent. Before this
> version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW
could be 
> tested over and over again as not to
> have any issues down the road.
> 
> I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is
done, and 
> so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
> But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is
*just* 
> for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
> that I need to sell about 25 to break even.
> 
> And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
50-60 
> '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
> MOTM-730s right away.
> 
> So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
something that 

> has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).
> 
> If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
> 
> Paul S.
> /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....
>

Worth?  

OK - now my rant...

Assuming that music has value, then the instruments that help create
it have value.  And music is one of the fundamental expressions of
life.  Crickets, birds, wolves - the two leggeds, the four leggeds,
even the inktomi - we all sing.

I suspect that these modules mean different things to different
people, Paul.  But for me, it's simple - primarily, these things,
bundled together constitute the equivalent of a Stradivarius.

Not everyone can afford that.  Not everyone wants that.  But I want it
and so I choose to afford it.  Because I sing.

Secondarily - and this is big for Will and me - we can build the
gadgets ourselves.  It has made this synth OUR synth.

So, as my dad says "If you have to consider the menu's price, you
probably can't afford to eat there - better find a different
restaurant."  Dad, the Bell Labs Guy, studies your circuits and says
"nice - very nice"  like he says about a great meal.

We come to your table because we love the food and it has influenced
our lives for the better.

I think that's the leveler, man.  Like a great song.  Your crazy
gadgets have made the place better for us.

Not bad.  <shrug>  But we're from Jersey.  If the world ended today we
would adjust.  

We want the FDNR filter and Dad is amused by it.  We wish you'd design
it so we could build it - but do what you will - we'll find a way to
afford it eventually.

Bill (and Will)





--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> > modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> > not for everyone.
> >
> 
> a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is
quite a bit 
> less than 'retail'.
> 
> b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
> about $30. That's an issue?
> 
> I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
> *innovative*. Does anyone else
> even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
> counters behind a panel
> to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.
> 
> I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can
break even 
> just sitting here looking out
> the window.
> 
> It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And
truthfully, 
> right now I'm starting to wonder
> what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0
stuff. There 
> are over 15 modular
> providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM
designers 
> have yet to be out-designed in
> any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound
and other 
> factors is making me second-guess
> all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of
design time 
> put into each module versus return
> on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those
5 pc 
> boards interconnect, the tightness of
> the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can
see 
> where the time was spent. Before this
> version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW
could be 
> tested over and over again as not to
> have any issues down the road.
> 
> I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is
done, and 
> so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
> But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is
*just* 
> for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
> that I need to sell about 25 to break even.
> 
> And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
50-60 
> '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
> MOTM-730s right away.
> 
> So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
something that 

> has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).
> 
> If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
> 
> Paul S.
> /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow....sigh.....
>

Amen, Bill.  I would like to have the MOTM Fixed Filter Bank.  Will it be offered for sale?  Would like to know.......




________________________________
From: wjhall11 <wjhall@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:52:24 PM
Subject: [motm] Re: [RANT] MOTM value?


Worth? 

OK - now my rant...

Assuming that music has value, then the instruments that help create
it have value.  And music is one of the fundamental expressions of
life.  Crickets, birds, wolves - the two leggeds, the four leggeds,
even the inktomi - we all sing.

I suspect that these modules mean different things to different
people, Paul.  But for me, it's simple - primarily, these things,
bundled together constitute the equivalent of a Stradivarius.

Not everyone can afford that.  Not everyone wants that.  But I want it
and so I choose to afford it.  Because I sing.

Secondarily - and this is big for Will and me - we can build the
gadgets ourselves.  It has made this synth OUR synth.

So, as my dad says "If you have to consider the menu's price, you
probably can't afford to eat there - better find a different
restaurant."  Dad, the Bell Labs Guy, studies your circuits and says
"nice - very nice"  like he says about a great meal.

We come to your table because we love the food and it has influenced
our lives for the better.

I think that's the leveler, man.  Like a great song.  Your crazy
gadgets have made the place better for us.

Not bad.  <shrug>  But we're from Jersey.  If the world ended today we
would adjust. 

We want the FDNR filter and Dad is amused by it.  We wish you'd design
it so we could build it - but do what you will - we'll find a way to
afford it eventually.

Bill (and Will)

--- In motm@yahoogroups. com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> > modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> > not for everyone.
> >
> 
> a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is
quite a bit 
> less than 'retail'.
> 
> b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
> about $30. That's an issue?
> 
> I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
> *innovative* . Does anyone else
> even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
> counters behind a panel
> to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.
> 
> I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can
break even 
> just sitting here looking out
> the window.
> 
> It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And
truthfully, 
> right now I'm starting to wonder
> what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0
stuff. There 
> are over 15 modular
> providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM
designers 
> have yet to be out-designed in
> any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound
and other 
> factors is making me second-guess
> all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of
design time 
> put into each module versus return
> on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those
5 pc 
> boards interconnect, the tightness of
> the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can
see 
> where the time was spent. Before this
> version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW
could be 
> tested over and over again as not to
> have any issues down the road.
> 
> I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is
done, and 
> so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
> But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is
*just* 
> for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
> that I need to sell about 25 to break even.
> 
> And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
50-60 
> '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
> MOTM-730s right away.
> 
> So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
something that 

> has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).
> 
> If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
> 
> Paul S.
> /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow.... sigh.....
>

On Feb 11, 2009, at 4:58 PM, jneilnyc wrote:
> The recent announcement of Volta has made me question whether it makes
> sense to devote much of the dwindling space in my cabinets to control
> modules -- sequencers, utility CV/logic modules, and yes, the MOTM-730
> -- or to leave that kind of work to the computer, and devote space
> (and of course dollars) to voices/modulators/effects.

i understand your feelings here.

however, as someone who grew up with computers, and who was making  
music with their computer long before they owned any actual gear,  
i've gotta say that even though i love computer sequencing and such,  
even Volta will only have its place in the studio as the best way to  
get control from things inside the computer to the analogue  
synthesiser. there will ALWAYS be a place for analogue voltage and  
trigger sequencers, quantisers, logic, etc. for the musician who  
needs to _play_ their synthesiser. even if it is getting its pitches  
from Numerology and Volta.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

I would buy two of the MOTM Fixed Filter Bank! I'm less interested in  
the digital stuff, but that's just me.

I chose MOTM because Paul's products are the best in the world. I'm  
glad I did.

skw

On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:35 PM, David Abbey wrote:

> Amen, Bill.  I would like to have the MOTM Fixed Filter Bank.  Will  
> it be offered for sale?  Would like to know.......
>
> From: wjhall11 <wjhall@...>
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:52:24 PM
> Subject: [motm] Re: [RANT] MOTM value?
>
> Worth?
>
> OK - now my rant...
>
> Assuming that music has value, then the instruments that help create
> it have value. And music is one of the fundamental expressions of
> life. Crickets, birds, wolves - the two leggeds, the four leggeds,
> even the inktomi - we all sing.
>
> I suspect that these modules mean different things to different
> people, Paul. But for me, it's simple - primarily, these things,
> bundled together constitute the equivalent of a Stradivarius.
>
> Not everyone can afford that. Not everyone wants that. But I want it
> and so I choose to afford it. Because I sing.
>
> Secondarily - and this is big for Will and me - we can build the
> gadgets ourselves. It has made this synth OUR synth.
>
> So, as my dad says "If you have to consider the menu's price, you
> probably can't afford to eat there - better find a different
> restaurant." Dad, the Bell Labs Guy, studies your circuits and says
> "nice - very nice" like he says about a great meal.
>
> We come to your table because we love the food and it has influenced
> our lives for the better.
>
> I think that's the leveler, man. Like a great song. Your crazy
> gadgets have made the place better for us.
>
> Not bad. <shrug> But we're from Jersey. If the world ended today we
> would adjust.
>
> We want the FDNR filter and Dad is amused by it. We wish you'd design
> it so we could build it - but do what you will - we'll find a way to
> afford it eventually.
>
> Bill (and Will)
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups. com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was  
> cheapest
> > > modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping  
> overseas...
> > > not for everyone.
> > >
> >
> > a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is
> quite a bit
> > less than 'retail'.
> >
> > b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the  
> EU is
> > about $30. That's an issue?
> >
> > I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather,
> > *innovative* . Does anyone else
> > even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS
> > counters behind a panel
> > to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.
> >
> > I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can
> break even
> > just sitting here looking out
> > the window.
> >
> > It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And
> truthfully,
> > right now I'm starting to wonder
> > what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0
> stuff. There
> > are over 15 modular
> > providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM
> designers
> > have yet to be out-designed in
> > any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound
> and other
> > factors is making me second-guess
> > all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of
> design time
> > put into each module versus return
> > on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those
> 5 pc
> > boards interconnect, the tightness of
> > the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can
> see
> > where the time was spent. Before this
> > version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW
> could be
> > tested over and over again as not to
> > have any issues down the road.
> >
> > I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is
> done, and
> > so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
> > But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is
> *just*
> > for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
> > that I need to sell about 25 to break even.
> >
> > And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell
> 50-60
> > '520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40  
> orders for
> > MOTM-730s right away.
> >
> > So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell
> something that
> > has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest  
> before).
> >
> > If so, then what exactly IS of interest?
> >
> > Paul S.
> > /excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow.... sigh.....
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'd love to get a 730, but I have to throw it into the queue of stuff to save up for & hope it's available when I can gather funds. To be honest, I don't know if I ever would have gotten into modulars if it weren't for the dotcom entry system. I'm sure it's hard to keep track, but I wish more companies were down with partial payments and deposits. It's a lot easier to pay out $120 a month than try to save up $400. Something always comes up, like a car or home repair, an unexpected bill or whatever. Like a lot of people, I don't want to go further into debt. I'd rather get rid of the debt. But it's tough reaching the milestones. It's also tough to buy knowing how bad things are going to get at my work come June or August. Of course, I still plan to buy at least a half-dozen MOTM modules over the next year or two.  

I'm kind of coming full-cirlce from hardware to computer & software back to hardware again. I'm tired of the vicious upgrade cycle... that what I could do yesterday, I somehow can't do today because Windows updated itself or the new version requires a new machine. I love that my 440 & 485 will always work (provided no surges or frying), and if they break, they can be fixed. Sometimes more is just more. I'll be honest, I just don't feel creative at a screen after 10 hours of staring at a screen at work. I just want to twist knobs & plug in & drive neighbors crazy. I know modulars encourage experimentation and exploration. But modules can be fine instruments too (as pointed out by others here). Keep investing your energy in your great designs, Paul. I don't know if there are enough of us to recover your investment. Only you know that. But I along with a lot of others sure love what you do and that you do it. Thanks.

Erik




________________________________

From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
To: motm@yahoogroups.com; Girts R <boss@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:18:41 PM
Subject: [motm] [RANT] MOTM value?



> Sure, everyone needs a MOTM 730... but the days when MOTM was cheapest
> modular synth is over :) 21%VAT; 3,5% import tax; shipping overseas...
> not for everyone.
>

a) You will find that the VAT declared value for MOTM modules is quite a bit 
less than 'retail'.

b) I can't help the postage costs, but shipping 1 MOTM-730 to the EU is 
about $30. That's an issue?

I've never really considered MOTM 'inexpensive' at all. Rather, 
*innovative* . Does anyone else
even have anything close to this? Nope, everyone else has $3 of CMOS 
counters behind a panel
to count in powers of 2. Big deal, the MOTM-120 has that and more.

I am just now at the *break even* point for the '730. And I can break even 
just sitting here looking out
the window.

It is VERY expensive to tool up a new module, over $4,000. And truthfully, 
right now I'm starting to wonder
what to do looking forward. 95% of all new orders are MOTM 2.0 stuff. There 
are over 15 modular
providers at last count. I still feel that myself & my fellow MOTM designers 
have yet to be out-designed in
any facet. But the bad economic times, the drop in the Euro/Pound and other 
factors is making me second-guess
all the 100s of hours (and yes, it really is 100s of hours) of design time 
put into each module versus return
on investment. Those of you that have a '730, just look at how those 5 pc 
boards interconnect, the tightness of
the CPU card (4 layers, 3 ground planes, 3 power planes) and you can see 
where the time was spent. Before this
version, I spent time & $$$ on 2 other versions so that the HW & SW could be 
tested over and over again as not to
have any issues down the road.

I've got the MOTM-520/521 still to finish up. A lot of the R&D is done, and 
so are many of the part purchases (over $7,500, BTW).
But will it also be a 'break even' sort of deal? And that $7,500 is *just* 
for the '520, not for the '521. Quick math shows
that I need to sell about 25 to break even.

And to date, I have sold less than 25 MOTM-730s. Maybe I will sell 50-60 
'520s right away. But then I thought I would get at least 40 orders for 
MOTM-730s right away.

So, maybe the issue is even "deeper", that I'm trying to sell something that 
has little interest *now* (because it did have lots of interest before).

If so, then what exactly IS of interest?

Paul S.
/excuse rant, daughter's tuition due tomorrow.... sigh.....

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Suit & Tie Guy <erwill@...> wrote:
>
> On Feb 11, 2009, at 4:58 PM, jneilnyc wrote:
> > The recent announcement of Volta has made me question whether it makes
> > sense to devote much of the dwindling space in my cabinets to control
> > modules -- sequencers, utility CV/logic modules, and yes, the MOTM-730
> > -- or to leave that kind of work to the computer, and devote space
> > (and of course dollars) to voices/modulators/effects.
> 
> i understand your feelings here.
> 
> however, as someone who grew up with computers, and who was making  
> music with their computer long before they owned any actual gear,  
> i've gotta say that even though i love computer sequencing and such,  
> even Volta will only have its place in the studio as the best way to  
> get control from things inside the computer to the analogue  
> synthesiser. there will ALWAYS be a place for analogue voltage and  
> trigger sequencers, quantisers, logic, etc. for the musician who  
> needs to _play_ their synthesiser. even if it is getting its pitches  
> from Numerology and Volta.

I totally agree.  But Numerology makes one of those big/pricey
sequencer module/clock/quantizer racks a luxury option instead of the
only game in town for step-sequencing.  And Volta along with something
like Max4Live might do the same for any number of logic and CV utility
modules. 

I'll still want to do some of this stuff in hardware, but I'll
definitely be weighing the options and trade-offs for this type of
functionality, and I'll be more selective than I would be say 2 years ago.

> The recent announcement of Volta has made me question [...]

... and if you like the problems we're having with getting the 650
software fixed, you'll absolutely *LOVE* doing business with Mark of
the Unicorn!

-- 
#:jfm3

p.s. I still like my 650.  You should totally get one.