MOTM

I'm wondering if a compressor/limiter/gate would improve the 
straight-to-MP3 recordings I make with the Tascam SS-R1.  Or to improve 
the live sound.  I'm looking at the following units.

http://www.bbesound.com/products/maxcom/index.asp

http://www.dbxpro.com/166XL/166XL.php

I wish I could get hold of these units to play with to get a better idea 
of what they would do, before having to buy them.  But in lieu of that, 
I'd appreciate any advice.

TIA,

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com <http://pugix.com>

Hi Richard,

I can see where a limiter along with some light compression maybe could be
useful for a synth, especially when doing unpredictable stuff like noise
patches and patching a modular live. It would help by not letting the output
to your amplifier go beyond a set level (the limiter) so that you could
avoid overloads etc and the compressor is basically used to reduce dynamic
range so softer sounds effectively can be heard better (the compressor has a
volume threshold setting and when the input volume reaches the threshold
point, it starts reducing the output volume. So, it makes the louder
passages of the input sound softer and then by cranking up the output gain
to the amp, the softer sounds are more easily heard at the sacrifice of some
dynamics)

The Sonic Maximizer is an interesting device but it's not magic (like I
thought it was when I first got one! ;-) and it's hard to resist the
temptation to crank up the effect just a little too much (subtle amounts are
best) so running everything through it all the time tends to make people
finally unplug them and not use them anymore. That said, I found that they
are great for doing cassette tape to digital transfers (can brighten up dull
tapes without "sounding EQ's")  and I've read that they are often used for
live sound systems to bring a little extra clarity or 'cut'.  One of my
favorite uses was to 'spruce up' a synthesized Hammond organ patch. Like the
'best' rock organ sound in a Roland MKS-50 synth through the rock organ
effect on a Roland RPS-550 can sound pretty OK, but running that output into
a Sonic Maximizer makes it sound almost great! (gives it just a little bit
of bite that improves the sound 100%, at least to me)

What is it exactly that you aren't happy with or feel you are missing from
your synth/live sound?

Best of luck!

John L Rice

PS - I have succumbed to yours, and others, greater wisdom and have realized
that it will be much better (and actually necessary) to put a separate power
supply in each of my portable cabinets! "You can lead synthesists to
multiple power supplies but you can't get them amped up!" ;-)  

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Brewster
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:16 PM
To: MOTM List
Subject: [motm] OT: Compressor/Limiter/Gate

I'm wondering if a compressor/limiter/gate would improve the 
straight-to-MP3 recordings I make with the Tascam SS-R1.  Or to improve 
the live sound.  I'm looking at the following units.

http://www.bbesound.com/products/maxcom/index.asp

http://www.dbxpro.com/166XL/166XL.php

I wish I could get hold of these units to play with to get a better idea 
of what they would do, before having to buy them.  But in lieu of that, 
I'd appreciate any advice.

TIA,

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com <http://pugix.com>



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

you should look into the PRO VLA or the really nice compressor. those are suposed to be good. I know the tapeop guys are allways talking about the PRO VLA. tapeop is a recording magazine who has reviewed an MOTM filter but I cant remember which one. I think they said it was the best filter they had ever heard. go figure :)
 
http://www.fmraudio.com/
http://www.zzounds.com/item--ART212
 
wes
 

--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:

From: Richard Brewster <pugix@...>
Subject: [motm] OT: Compressor/Limiter/Gate
To: "MOTM List" <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 7:16 PM






I'm wondering if a compressor/limiter/ gate would improve the 
straight-to- MP3 recordings I make with the Tascam SS-R1. Or to improve 
the live sound. I'm looking at the following units.

http://www.bbesound .com/products/ maxcom/index. asp

http://www.dbxpro. com/166XL/ 166XL.php

I wish I could get hold of these units to play with to get a better idea 
of what they would do, before having to buy them. But in lieu of that, 
I'd appreciate any advice.

TIA,

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix. com <http://pugix. com>

A compressor is just a different sound, not better or worse. It would  
prevent clipping if that's a problem. The BBE distorts and phases high  
frequencies to add them to a dull signal, I don't think you need it. I  
mistrust a box that claims to make anything better just by running  
through it. Does the sound from the SS-R1 sound different than the  
straight modular? I would think they are pretty close.

Maybe you should add a mixer in front of the recorder. Then you would  
be able to control panning better, EQ and effect different parts better.

On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:16 PM, Richard Brewster wrote:

> I'm wondering if a compressor/limiter/gate would improve the
> straight-to-MP3 recordings I make with the Tascam SS-R1. Or to improve
> the live sound. I'm looking at the following units.
>
> http://www.bbesound.com/products/maxcom/index.asp
>
> http://www.dbxpro.com/166XL/166XL.php
>
> I wish I could get hold of these units to play with to get a better  
> idea
> of what they would do, before having to buy them. But in lieu of that,
> I'd appreciate any advice.
>
> TIA,
>
> Richard Brewster
> http://www.pugix.com <http://pugix.com>
>
>

My posts are getting blocked. I guess they have HTML in them, despite 
[grumble Eudora grumble]. I assume that Richard has gotten the CCs.

In short, I'd recommend the FMR RNC as an inexpensive, fairly 
transparent comp/limitier.

As for gating, I'd rather do that in my DAW.

John

I've read all the replies and thanks to everyone who responded.  I 
wasn't clear in my original post about what I want the 
compressor/limiter to do.  I think I was enticed by the idea of "sonic 
maximizer", but really I don't want another sound enhancer, so I've 
ruled out the BBE MaxCom.  What I really want is a limiter that will let 
me use all the headroom of the recorder without having to worry about 
clipping.  The sort of material I make includes unpredictable peaks.  I 
will look at the FMR RNC.  Nobody commented about the DBX 166XL.  I'm 
still considering that and maybe the 266XL.

I have been using the Tascam SS-R1 to record direct to MP3 at 192K BPS.  
I use a Mackie 802-VLZ3 mixer between the synthesizer and the recorder.

http://pugix.com/synth/overview/

The results sound pretty good to my ears.  All of the recent MP3s posted 
on my website have been recorded this way.  Most of these were 
spur-of-the-moment recordings.  In the future I may try recording in WAV 
format and use external software of some kind for editing and exporting 
to MP3.  A limiter would help in that scenario to get the maximum 
dynamic range without clipping in the original recording.

Again, thanks for all the replies.

Richard Brewster

John Mahoney wrote:

> My posts are getting blocked. I guess they have HTML in them, despite 
> [grumble Eudora grumble]. I assume that Richard has gotten the CCs.
>
> In short, I'd recommend the FMR RNC as an inexpensive, fairly 
> transparent comp/limitier.
>
> As for gating, I'd rather do that in my DAW.
>
> John
>
>

At 08:01 PM 12/2/2008, Richard Brewster wrote:
>I've read all the replies and thanks to everyone who responded.  I
>wasn't clear in my original post about what I want the
>compressor/limiter to do.  I think I was enticed by the idea of "sonic
>maximizer", but really I don't want another sound enhancer, so I've
>ruled out the BBE MaxCom.  What I really want is a limiter that will let
>me use all the headroom of the recorder without having to worry about
>clipping.  The sort of material I make includes unpredictable peaks.

Based on my admittedly limited experience, that is definitely what you want!


>  I
>will look at the FMR RNC.  Nobody commented about the DBX 166XL.  I'm
>still considering that and maybe the 266XL.

I've got a 266, too. Got it on sale and used it once or twice for 
recording bass to tape (to boost quiet parts above the tape noise). 
The RNC is cleaner, less colored, definitely better for recording a mix.

The 166 is popular. I may eventually get around to selling my 266; if 
so, I may get a 166. But I'd be using it for tracking (recording 
individual instruments), not for limiting a 2-track mix, not when 
I've got the RNC. :-)

No comment on the ART Pro VLA, as I've never seen or used one. ART 
does offer good price:performance, on the whole.

John

Thanks for the additional tips.  Everyone seems to have good things to 
say about the FMR RNC.  I think I'm going to get one of those.  It will 
patch right into the inserts on my Mackie 802-VLZ3 mixer.  I'll look 
into the Aphex Dominator too.  Another funny name for my wife to kid me 
about.  About the FMC, "Yeah, and it really has a button that says 
"Super Nice".  I think she's hoping I'll get that kind of button.

Richard

jneilnyc wrote:

> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:
>   
>> I've read all the replies and thanks to everyone who responded.  I 
>> wasn't clear in my original post about what I want the 
>> compressor/limiter to do.  I think I was enticed by the idea of "sonic 
>> maximizer", but really I don't want another sound enhancer, so I've 
>> ruled out the BBE MaxCom.  What I really want is a limiter that will
>>     
> let 
>   
>> me use all the headroom of the recorder without having to worry about 
>> clipping.  The sort of material I make includes unpredictable peaks.  I 
>> will look at the FMR RNC.  Nobody commented about the DBX 166XL.  I'm 
>> still considering that and maybe the 266XL.
>>     
>  
> I have the Pro VLA, and it's a nice cheap box that adds a little
> warmth but also seems to make the track a little softer and more
> textured.  Sometimes this is exactly what you want, other times not.
>
> The RNC on the other hand is very transparent, and if you set it up
> right it can serve to flatten out unwanted transients without
> significantly changing the perceived tone.
>
> Even if you do get a compressor like one of those, you might want to
> keep a lookout for a used Aphex Dominator.  It's a limiter that I used
> a lot in tracking for the reasons you suggest, to be able to keep
> levels up without having to worry about a spike getting through and
> ruining a track with digital distortion.  These weren't cheap, but
> there are a dozen of them on ebay right now, and they appear to be
> selling in the $250-$500 range.
>
> http://www.aphex.com/720_722.htm
>
>
>
>
>

Another one to consider is the stereo compressor from Chameleon Labs.  
It's modeled on the SSL Mix Buss compressor, which has been used to  
make records "punchy" for the last 25 years. It's affordable and has  
gotten great reviews from Tape Op and others.

http://www.chameleonlabs.com/product5.html

It's also hard to go wrong with the DBX, the 166 has been around  
forever.


On Dec 3, 2008, at 3:44 PM, Richard Brewster wrote:

> Thanks for the additional tips. Everyone seems to have good things to
> say about the FMR RNC. I think I'm going to get one of those. It will
> patch right into the inserts on my Mackie 802-VLZ3 mixer. I'll look
> into the Aphex Dominator too. Another funny name for my wife to kid me
> about. About the FMC, "Yeah, and it really has a button that says
> "Super Nice". I think she's hoping I'll get that kind of button.
>
> Richard
>
> jneilnyc wrote:
> > --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:
> >
> >> I've read all the replies and thanks to everyone who responded. I
> >> wasn't clear in my original post about what I want the
> >> compressor/limiter to do. I think I was enticed by the idea of  
> "sonic
> >> maximizer", but really I don't want another sound enhancer, so I've
> >> ruled out the BBE MaxCom. What I really want is a limiter that will
> >>
> > let
> >
> >> me use all the headroom of the recorder without having to worry  
> about
> >> clipping. The sort of material I make includes unpredictable  
> peaks. I
> >> will look at the FMR RNC. Nobody commented about the DBX 166XL. I'm
> >> still considering that and maybe the 266XL.
> >>
> >
> > I have the Pro VLA, and it's a nice cheap box that adds a little
> > warmth but also seems to make the track a little softer and more
> > textured. Sometimes this is exactly what you want, other times not.
> >
> > The RNC on the other hand is very transparent, and if you set it up
> > right it can serve to flatten out unwanted transients without
> > significantly changing the perceived tone.
> >
> > Even if you do get a compressor like one of those, you might want to
> > keep a lookout for a used Aphex Dominator. It's a limiter that I  
> used
> > a lot in tracking for the reasons you suggest, to be able to keep
> > levels up without having to worry about a spike getting through and
> > ruining a track with digital distortion. These weren't cheap, but
> > there are a dozen of them on ebay right now, and they appear to be
> > selling in the $250-$500 range.
> >
> > http://www.aphex.com/720_722.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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Thanks for the tip, John.  I have purchased from BSW before and they 
have excellent customer service.

I've been having fun researching compressors and decided to go all out 
and get two FMR RNC units and this rack panel to hold them:

http://www.funklogic.com/NCC-1701.htm

I found this deal:

http://www.humbuckermusic.com/dualrnccomwi1.html

$379 for everything and free shipping.  Yippee!

Comparing this dual RNC setup to the dbx 166XL or 266XL, I'm getting 
four channels of compression in the same rack space as I would get two 
channels with a standard dual compressor.  And I always get two of 
everything, right?  This will give me a lot of flexibility.  I've 
already planned how to patch these into my gear.  One RNC will patch 
into the inserts of the two input channels on my mixer, so I get 
compression coming in.  The other RNC will patch between my mixer 
outputs and the recorder inputs.  I'll be able to use either or both 
compressors.  I have an idea to try patching the side chain on the input 
compressor through various MOTM filters for special effects.

I hope you don't mind my copying this reply back to the MOTM list.  My 
search is over and it was all very educational.  I thank everyone who 
contributed to my education!

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

John L Rice wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>
> I know you are planning on the FMR RNC now (and I've always heard that those
> are a impressive units!) but I was this today and thought of you so I'm
> passing it along FWIW:
> DBX 266XL-BSTOCK $109.95
> http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=266XL-BSTOCK
>
> John L Rice
>

Uh oh... It's a little late to mention this, but it's important to 
note that the FMR RNC is a stereo unit. It's not a dual mono unit 
with a link function.

In that regard, it's unlike the DBX 166, 266, and most others.

Only one set of controls for both channels, that's why it's so small!

Sorry that I forgot to mention this earlier. For whatever reason, I 
thought you just wanted a comp/limiter on a stereo buss.

John

If I would have read your whole post, I'd have seen that stereo 
operation is what you need.

Over and out on this OT talk,
John