MOTM

A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud Generator is a 
nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.

The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select the scale 
for each channel. LCD displays the scale name. For a relatively small price, 
I can add a USB port to allow downloading of your own scales (as long as I 
have people willing to write the host app).

I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1 semitone steps).

And, there could be a "cascaded S&H mode" where there is a clock (int or 
ext) to sample input #1, next pulse #1 is copied to #2, etc ("analog shift 
register"). Maybe that UI is a 3-position toggle with:

QUANTIZE
SH NORM
SH SHIFT

Normal is 4 independent S&H channels (sharing the common clock).

I suppose one could go "nuts" and make a super-PSIM whiz-bang but maybe that 
is later down the road. I want something with less than 1 man-year of SW 
development :)

So, show me you panel mockups/feature list. The LCD is 80mm lond and 35mm 
wide. There are 2 encoders on the top and 2 on the bottom.

Paul S.

Ok, I'm slow in the morning and read my emails backwards=not the best combo.

My experience with quantization is limited to the blacet/wiard miniwave.  As in
the miniwave, CV selection of the scale is a great feature.  It would be nice
to have a clock input for each quantizer.  Just a thought.





--- Paul Schreiber <synth1@...> wrote:

> A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud Generator is a 
> nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.
> 
> The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select the scale 
> for each channel. LCD displays the scale name. For a relatively small price, 
> I can add a USB port to allow downloading of your own scales (as long as I 
> have people willing to write the host app).
> 
> I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1 semitone steps).
> 
> And, there could be a "cascaded S&H mode" where there is a clock (int or 
> ext) to sample input #1, next pulse #1 is copied to #2, etc ("analog shift 
> register"). Maybe that UI is a 3-position toggle with:
> 
> QUANTIZE
> SH NORM
> SH SHIFT
> 
> Normal is 4 independent S&H channels (sharing the common clock).
> 
> I suppose one could go "nuts" and make a super-PSIM whiz-bang but maybe that 
> is later down the road. I want something with less than 1 man-year of SW 
> development :)
> 
> So, show me you panel mockups/feature list. The LCD is 80mm lond and 35mm 
> wide. There are 2 encoders on the top and 2 on the bottom.
> 
> Paul S.
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 


screw the RIAA.  artists, take control.
share and remix music, legally, on your own terms.   
http://ccmixter.org


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/

Suggestion: use MIDI rather than a USB port for downloading user scales.
MIDI already has a defined protocol for transferring tuning tables within
sysex files; see http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml If standard
sysex files are used to transfer the information, then no host apps need to
be written; existing programs such as Scala can be used to generate the
sysex files. Users can share sysex files regardless of their OS of choice
(Windows, OS X, Linux, etc.). 
 
--Adam


  _____  

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Schreiber
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:22 AM
To: MOTM List
Subject: [motm] Quad Quantizer: need your inputs



A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud Generator is a 
nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.

The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select the scale

for each channel. LCD displays the scale name. For a relatively small price,

I can add a USB port to allow downloading of your own scales (as long as I 
have people willing to write the host app).

I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1 semitone steps).

And, there could be a "cascaded S&H mode" where there is a clock (int or 
ext) to sample input #1, next pulse #1 is copied to #2, etc ("analog shift 
register"). Maybe that UI is a 3-position toggle with:

QUANTIZE
SH NORM
SH SHIFT

Normal is 4 independent S&H channels (sharing the common clock).

I suppose one could go "nuts" and make a super-PSIM whiz-bang but maybe that

is later down the road. I want something with less than 1 man-year of SW 
development :)

So, show me you panel mockups/feature list. The LCD is 80mm lond and 35mm 
wide. There are 2 encoders on the top and 2 on the bottom.

Paul S.

Just so I follow:

There are 4 inputs and 4 outputs, plus 1 clock input.
In quantize mode the clock is ignored and the outputs just quantize the 
inputs.
In SH modes the outputs change on the rising edge of the clock.
How many scales are available?

I have a Modcan dual quantzer:

http://www.pugix.com/top-cabinet.htm#quantizer

Very useful is the pulse output which gives a short trigger pulse every 
time the output changes.  So I suggest adding 4 Pulse Out jacks.

Fitting voltage control features for a quad module into a 2U panel will 
be a challenge.  I'll have some fun thinking about this.

Richard Brewster

Paul Schreiber wrote:

> A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud Generator is a 
> nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.
>
> The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select the scale 
> for each channel. LCD displays the scale name. For a relatively small price, 
> I can add a USB port to allow downloading of your own scales (as long as I 
> have people willing to write the host app).
>
> I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1 semitone steps).
>
> And, there could be a "cascaded S&H mode" where there is a clock (int or 
> ext) to sample input #1, next pulse #1 is copied to #2, etc ("analog shift 
> register"). Maybe that UI is a 3-position toggle with:
>
> QUANTIZE
> SH NORM
> SH SHIFT
>
> Normal is 4 independent S&H channels (sharing the common clock).
>
> I suppose one could go "nuts" and make a super-PSIM whiz-bang but maybe that 
> is later down the road. I want something with less than 1 man-year of SW 
> development :)
>
> So, show me you panel mockups/feature list. The LCD is 80mm lond and 35mm 
> wide. There are 2 encoders on the top and 2 on the bottom.
>
> Paul S.
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Back in Dec. 2005 there was discussion about a new MOTM-102 noise 
generator. We discussed adding ASR and quantizing to that module. The 
general consensus was that the 102 should not have quantizing, just 
noise and ASR to make it fit into 1U. I'd still like to see that 
MOTM-102.

In that light, the new quantizer should not have ASR. But it must 
have voltage control to select the scale. I currently use miniwaves 
for quantizing and I use the bank/wave control inputs to change the 
scale  a lot. I like your idea of putting four quantizers into one 
module, that will free up the miniwaves for other uses, but without a 
means to change the scale under voltage control, it's of no use to me.

Minimum requirements:
1. four rotary encoders for setting the initial scale
2. four input jacks (quanitize input)
3. four output jacks (quantize output)
4. four for selecting scale under voltage control
5. four jacks that generate a pulse whenever the outputs change 
(Richard Brewster's suggestion)

I don't think you'll be able to fit any more into 2U.

On 2007-08-26 10:21 -0500, Paul Schreiber wrote:

> A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud
> Generator is a nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.

If there's a MIDI input, a combination of MIDI tuning standard
and note on/note off messages could be used to specify a scale.

Note on/off :
  By default, the module forces everything to the nearest equal
  temperament note, i.e. 0 V through 10.58 V in 83 mV increments.
  If note-on messages are received, they restrict the output
  values to the notes currently on. When the last key is released,
  the quantiser returns to its default (quantise to the nearest
  MIDI note).

MIDI tuning standard :
  To alter the note#-to-voltage table.

Sustain :
  If controller 64 (sustain pedal) or 80 (general purpose button
  1) is on, note-off messages are registered but take no effect
  until controller 64 and 80 are both off.

Panic :
  Controllers 120 and 123 (all sound off, all notes off) have
  the effect of returning to the quantiser to its default
  behaviour, regardless of controllers 64 and 80.

Pitch bend :
  The pitch-wheel messages shift the whole scale up or down.
  Honour RPN 65 00 (pitch bend range) ?

Octaves :
  A mechanism for easily defining an output scale that extends
  to all octaves is desirable. On note-on, if controller 81
  (general purpose button 2) is on, enable all items in the
  table whose index modulo 12 is equal to the note #. On
  note-off, same thing but based on the state of CC 81 *at
  note-on time*.

-- 
Andr\ufffd Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.

Addendum to my previous email on this topic...

I suppose you could add a 1U expander to the quantizer. The expander 
could have four extra jacks for each quantizer: scale select input, 
transpose input, pulse output jack, and something else?

Then you could still do a basic quad quantizer in 2U.

the module could advertise itself as a USB MIDI interface - best of 
both worlds.

also if the module guarantees that it will place scales in the order 
they were received via MIDI (ie the last received is the last in the 
list), then you could just erase them all and script a transfer to 
upload in your preferred VC order.

>Suggestion: use MIDI rather than a USB port for downloading user 
>scales. MIDI already has a defined protocol for transferring tuning 
>tables within sysex files; see 
><http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml>http://www.midi.org/about-midi/tuning.shtml If 
>standard sysex files are used to transfer the information, then no 
>host apps need to be written; existing programs such as Scala can be 
>used to generate the sysex files. Users can share sysex files 
>regardless of their OS of choice (Windows, OS X, Linux, etc.).
>
>--Adam

I don't have much to offer on the layout, except to say that I'd
prefer it to be as simple as possible in this case.

If you were to be able to squeeze this module behind a frac panel,
you'd be making me a very happy person indeed.

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

I disagree entirely with a manual scale entry approach.  SCALA already has
all the scales I need captured in a standard format.  Would I want to
re-enter them all again on a limited user interface, 128 entries for each
scale?  No way!  That's one of the reasons programs like SCALA were created,
to relieve the tedium of scale entry across different platforms.  Other than
panel space, having the USB/MIDI interface doesn't take away any real time
modular features that you could have.

 

John Loffink

The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com

The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site

http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Maietta
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:23 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Re: Quad Quantizer: need your inputs

 

First of all, its great to have a new module feature thread again, it's been
so long!!    

 

  

  Regrading scale programming on a quantizer module, my thought is if the
module came with 20 or so scale presets from the "factory" then I'd bet that
95% of users would just stick with those anyway, especially if they had to
load some app to transfer scales via USB, or coax their sequencer to send a
MIDI scale dump or whatever..  so for most users its probably not even too
important.    But wait. . . unless programming scales became part of
patching the module..using ya know, patchcords, cv's and gates...hmmm  now I
bet most people would end up playing with new scales!  Even if a user didn't
really care what exact note was programmed, the modular
experimentation-ability of the module would of course, keep the users mind
going and results fresh.  Think less in terms of strict scales, but more of
a user defined voltage memory bank.

  

    So I propose this idea for those who are mad patchers, or those would
want to experiment with different tunings, a mode of operation where you
enter the "scale", note by note and then name it(maybe) and save it all from
the module panel.  It would be nice if no computer was necessary to program
it, and no cumbersome MIDI scale program messages would have to be
attempted.    Might need an encoder for this or a button or two, maybe
not... but its an idea.  And gives the freedom for real modular
experimentation, and intertwinedness in a patch.  Afterall, wouldn't you
rather see it be a usable experimantal feature waiting to be (ab)used..
rather then just loading a scale, 1.2.3 done.  (yawn..it came with 20 scales
anyway right?)  

 

   So yes keep it in the patchcord realm... no midi/usb jack necessary, you
patch up a voltage, tune it to just the right pitch,(listen to an osc or use
a MIDI/CV -if you're after a perfect pitch, you might not be, its a modular
afterall) press the button (or send a trig pulse) and it saves this voltage
level as step 1 of user scale 01, and then go to the next one.  Program in
an octaves worth and it automatically spans it to the 88 key range or
whatever.  You might need an additional ADC channel for this..  But the best
part is thinking of patches where the module is reprogramming itself as part
of the patch.. wow the patching possibilites..  would it tend towards chaos
or towards a single note??  :)  and then yes you have 2 (or 4) of these in a
single module.. wow..

 

    Power to the people!  Lets think "outside the box" and keep it "inside
the box" - no computer necessary!

 

 

~Steve

I agree with John. Having to enter scales manually would cause my interest
in this module to fall to zero.
 
--Adam


  _____  

From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Loffink
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 6:26 PM
To: 'Steve Maietta'; motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [motm] Re: Quad Quantizer: need your inputs






I disagree entirely with a manual scale entry approach.  SCALA already has
all the scales I need captured in a standard format.  Would I want to
re-enter them all again on a limited user interface, 128 entries for each
scale?  No way!  That's one of the reasons programs like SCALA were created,
to relieve the tedium of scale entry across different platforms.  Other than
panel space, having the USB/MIDI interface doesn't take away any real time
modular features that you could have.

 

John Loffink

The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com

The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site

http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Maietta
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:23 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] Re: Quad Quantizer: need your inputs

 

First of all, its great to have a new module feature thread again, it's been
so long!!    

 

  

  Regrading scale programming on a quantizer module, my thought is if the
module came with 20 or so scale presets from the "factory" then I'd bet that
95% of users would just stick with those anyway, especially if they had to
load some app to transfer scales via USB, or coax their sequencer to send a
MIDI scale dump or whatever..  so for most users its probably not even too
important.    But wait. . . unless programming scales became part of
patching the module..using ya know, patchcords, cv's and gates...hmmm  now I
bet most people would end up playing with new scales!  Even if a user didn't
really care what exact note was programmed, the modular
experimentation-ability of the module would of course, keep the users mind
going and results fresh.  Think less in terms of strict scales, but more of
a user defined voltage memory bank.

  

    So I propose this idea for those who are mad patchers, or those would
want to experiment with different tunings, a mode of operation where you
enter the "scale", note by note and then name it(maybe) and save it all from
the module panel.  It would be nice if no computer was necessary to program
it, and no cumbersome MIDI scale program messages would have to be
attempted.    Might need an encoder for this or a button or two, maybe
not... but its an idea.  And gives the freedom for real modular
experimentation, and intertwinedness in a patch.  Afterall, wouldn't you
rather see it be a usable experimantal feature waiting to be (ab)used..
rather then just loading a scale, 1.2.3 done.  (yawn..it came with 20 scales
anyway right?)  

 

   So yes keep it in the patchcord realm... no midi/usb jack necessary, you
patch up a voltage, tune it to just the right pitch,(listen to an osc or use
a MIDI/CV -if you're after a perfect pitch, you might not be, its a modular
afterall) press the button (or send a trig pulse) and it saves this voltage
level as step 1 of user scale 01, and then go to the next one.  Program in
an octaves worth and it automatically spans it to the 88 key range or
whatever.  You might need an additional ADC channel for this..  But the best
part is thinking of patches where the module is reprogramming itself as part
of the patch.. wow the patching possibilites..  would it tend towards chaos
or towards a single note??  :)  and then yes you have 2 (or 4) of these in a
single module.. wow..

 

    Power to the people!  Lets think "outside the box" and keep it "inside
the box" - no computer necessary!

 

 

~Steve

Hello ,

The MIDI wavetable editor software, i am going to release for the 
Quantix8 module , automaticaly compute almost any kind of quantised 
scales and transmit them to MIDI ... Scales are also tweakable with many 
math/synth functions ... If Paul share MIDI codes to feed the Quad 
Quantizer , i can write a dedicaced software or add more features to the 
existing one, it is not really a problem :)

Cheers,

Marc B.

PS : for more information about the Quantix8 project & software please 
check here
http://m.bareille.free.fr/modular1/quantix8/quantix8.htm





Adam Schabtach a \ufffdcrit :

> I agree with John. Having to enter scales manually would cause my 
> interest in this module to fall to zero.
> --Adam
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] *On
>     Behalf Of *John Loffink
>     *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 6:26 PM
>     *To:* 'Steve Maietta'; motm@yahoogroups.com
>     *Subject:* RE: [motm] Re: Quad Quantizer: need your inputs
>
>     I disagree *_entirely_* with a manual scale entry approach. SCALA
>     already has all the scales I need captured in a standard format.
>     Would I want to re-enter them all again on a limited user
>     interface, 128 entries for each scale? No way! That\ufffds one of the
>     reasons programs like SCALA were created, to relieve the tedium of
>     scale entry across different platforms. Other than panel space,
>     having the USB/MIDI interface doesn\ufffdt take away any real time
>     modular features that you could have.
>
>     John Loffink
>
>     The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
>
>     http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>
>     The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
>
>     http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] *On
>     Behalf Of *Steve Maietta
>     *Sent:* Monday, August 27, 2007 10:23 AM
>     *To:* motm@yahoogroups.com
>     *Subject:* [motm] Re: Quad Quantizer: need your inputs
>
>     First of all, its great to have a new module feature thread again,
>     it's been so long!!
>
>     Regrading scale programming on a quantizer module, my thought is
>     if the module came with 20 or so scale presets from the "factory"
>     then I'd bet that 95% of users would just stick with those anyway,
>     especially if they had to load some app to transfer scales via
>     USB, or coax their sequencer to send a MIDI scale dump or
>     whatever.. so for most users its probably not even too important.
>     But wait. . . unless programming scales became part of patching
>     the module..using ya know, patchcords, cv's and gates...hmmm now I
>     bet most people would end up playing with new scales! Even if a
>     user didn't really care what exact note was programmed, the
>     modular experimentation-ability of the module would of course,
>     keep the users mind going and results fresh. Think less in terms
>     of strict scales, but more of a user defined voltage memory bank.
>
>     So I propose this idea for those who are mad patchers, or those
>     would want to experiment with different tunings, a mode of
>     operation where you enter the "scale", note by note and then name
>     it(maybe) and save it _all from the module panel_. It would be
>     nice if no computer was necessary to program it, and no cumbersome
>     MIDI scale program messages would have to be attempted. Might need
>     an encoder for this or a button or two, maybe not... but its an
>     idea. And gives the freedom for real modular experimentation, and
>     intertwinedness in a patch. Afterall, wouldn't you rather see it
>     be a usable experimantal feature waiting to be (ab)used.. rather
>     then just loading a scale, 1.2.3 done. (yawn..it came with 20
>     scales anyway right?)
>
>     So yes keep it in the patchcord realm... no midi/usb jack
>     necessary, you patch up a voltage, tune it to just the right
>     pitch,(listen to an osc or use a MIDI/CV -if you're after a
>     perfect pitch, you might not be, its a modular afterall) press the
>     button (or send a trig pulse) and it saves this voltage level as
>     step 1 of user scale 01, and then go to the next one. Program in
>     an octaves worth and it automatically spans it to the 88 key range
>     or whatever. You might need an additional ADC channel for this..
>     But the best part is thinking of patches where the module is
>     reprogramming itself as part of the patch.. wow the patching
>     possibilites.. would it tend towards chaos or towards a single
>     note?? :) and then yes you have 2 (or 4) of these in a single
>     module.. wow..
>
>     Power to the people! Lets think "outside the box" and keep it
>     "inside the box" - no computer necessary!
>
>     ~Steve
>
>

On Aug 26, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select  
> the scale
> for each channel. LCD displays the scale name.

why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more  
sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose  
control?

i mean i suppose being able to process multiple scales on multiple  
channels is a "feature," but doesn't it just make producing  
polyphonic tonal music harder?

> I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1  
> semitone steps).

before or after quantisation?

and if there's a transpose input will it be before or after  
quantisation?
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

> why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more
> sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose
> control?
>

You could have a "ganged" mode qite easily. Maybe a toggle switch on the 
panel.

?
>
> and if there's a transpose input will it be before or after
> quantisation?

Well, it's the *same thing* really.

Paul S.

>why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more 
>sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose
>control?

I use four miniwaves as quantizers and use different settings on each 
of them most of the time.

I tend to choose the same scale when I'm using multiple quantizers.  But 
I like to transpose them independently.  A "ganged" mode for scale 
selection, as Paul mentioned, would be handy if you plan to change 
scales under VC.  Maybe CV input jack normalizing would work for this 
instead of a panel switch.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Scott Juskiw wrote:

>> why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more 
>> sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose
>> control?
>>     
>
> I use four miniwaves as quantizers and use different settings on each 
> of them most of the time.
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

At 06:31 PM 8/28/2007, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> >why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more
> >sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose
> >control?
>
>I use four miniwaves as quantizers and use different settings on each
>of them most of the time.

I'm guessing that you don't make music that could be described as 
"conventional."  :-)  ;-)
No disrespect intended.
--
john


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/976 - Release Date: 8/27/2007 6:20 PM

Even conventional music could use multiple scales at the same time -  
here's an example off the top of my head:

A jazz/blues patch:
A sequencer using a chromatic scale for a walking baseline;
Another sequencer using a major scale to comp with arpeggiated chords;
A S&H using a pentatonic scale to "solo" on top

-Chris

On Aug 28, 2007, at 7:30 PM, John Mahoney wrote:

> At 06:31 PM 8/28/2007, Scott Juskiw wrote:
>
> > >why do you need different scales per channel? wouldn't it make more
> > >sense to have multiple channels under common scale _and_ transpose
> > >control?
> >
> >I use four miniwaves as quantizers and use different settings on each
> >of them most of the time.
>
> I'm guessing that you don't make music that could be described as
> "conventional." :-) ;-)
> No disrespect intended.
> --
> john
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/976 - Release Date:  
> 8/27/2007 6:20 PM
>
>
>

+1 Insightful
--
john

At 08:04 PM 8/28/2007, xamboldt wrote:

>Even conventional music could use multiple scales at the same time -
>here's an example off the top of my head:
>
>A jazz/blues patch:
>A sequencer using a chromatic scale for a walking baseline;
>Another sequencer using a major scale to comp with arpeggiated chords;
>A S&H using a pentatonic scale to "solo" on top
>
>-Chris


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10/976 - Release Date: 8/27/2007 6:20 PM

>Even conventional music could use multiple scales at the same time - 
>here's an example off the top of my head:
>
>A jazz/blues patch:
>A sequencer using a chromatic scale for a walking baseline;
>Another sequencer using a major scale to comp with arpeggiated chords;
>A S&H using a pentatonic scale to "solo" on top
>
>-Chris

Yes, that's exactly what I do. They're all in compatible key, but 
they don't all quantize to the same subset of notes from the 
12-notes-per-octave.

Hello all, 

For a relative newcomer like myself to the modular world of synths, could some one 
describe to me in "simple mans language", what exactly is a quantizer in this sense?
Tried wikipedia, but all I get are descriptions on audio and video quantizing, which is not 
quite what the quantizer described here is, or is it?
 I can't somehow figure out what is ment with the below concept, and what does it mean 
musically?

Thank you :-)

Koos


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@...> wrote:

>
> A "fallout" of designing the expansion module for the Cloud Generator is a 
> nice 4ch (quad) quantizer in a 2U wide panel.
> 
> The UI is a 16ch x 2 line LCD with 4 rotary encoders. These select the scale 
> for each channel. LCD displays the scale name. For a relatively small price, 
> I can add a USB port to allow downloading of your own scales (as long as I 
> have people willing to write the host app).
> 
> I could aso have 4 pots for transposing the scale (say in 1 semitone steps).
> 
> And, there could be a "cascaded S&H mode" where there is a clock (int or 
> ext) to sample input #1, next pulse #1 is copied to #2, etc ("analog shift 
> register"). Maybe that UI is a 3-position toggle with:
> 
> QUANTIZE
> SH NORM
> SH SHIFT
> 
> Normal is 4 independent S&H channels (sharing the common clock).
> 
> I suppose one could go "nuts" and make a super-PSIM whiz-bang but maybe that 
> is later down the road. I want something with less than 1 man-year of SW 
> development :)
> 
> So, show me you panel mockups/feature list. The LCD is 80mm lond and 35mm 
> wide. There are 2 encoders on the top and 2 on the bottom.
> 
> Paul S.
>

On Aug 29, 2007, at 4:07 AM, Koos Fockens wrote:
> could some one describe to me in "simple mans language", what  
> exactly is a quantizer?

within the context of voltage control music synthesis, a "voltage  
quantiser" will shift incoming voltages, in regard to a 1v/octave  
scale, to voltages which correspond to a particular musically  
relevant scale.

these scales do not have to correspond to a 12-tone series but can  
also be subsets (ie: major, pentatonic, root+fifth+seventh,  
octatonic) of the 12-tone lifestyle or even relate to scales and  
subsets of scales in the world of microtonality (which ranges from  
Just Intonation and Werckmeister all the way to Pelog and the Wacky  
Partch Scale all the way to truly bizarre tunings such as 23-tone  
Equal Temperment {used primarily in the score of the stage production  
of Robert Anton Wilson's infamous Illuminatus! musical.})

this is useful in forcing the outputs of things such as sample holds  
fed from noise and analogue sequencers (such as the 960 or Milton)  
into a musically-useful voltage environment, which is quite useful in  
dealing with things such as sample holds fed from noise and  
sequentially-activated knobs which swing over a 4 volt (approximate)  
range, because they're really fiddly.


as an aside, i thought i'd point out that "stretch" should be a  
parameter in any tuning system. is this something which is part of  
the MIDI Tuning Thingamabobbie or is it a completely fictitious thing  
that STG for some demented reason wants in a digital Hammond organ to  
be able to play with acoustic pianists? it seems to me this is  
something useful to have under voltage control.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

On 2007-08-29 05:19 -0500, Suit & Tie Guy wrote:

> as an aside, i thought i'd point out that "stretch" should be a
> parameter in any tuning system.

"Stretch" as in piano tuning ?

> is this something which is part of  the MIDI Tuning
> Thingamabobbie

AFAIK, MTS lets you assign any frequency to any note number. It's
up to you to include the desired amount of stretch or shrink.

> it seems to me this is  something useful to have under voltage
> control.

V/oct CV into VCA with gain greater than unity ?

-- 
Andr\ufffd Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.

What is stretch?

Richard Brewster

Suit & Tie Guy wrote:

> as an aside, i thought i'd point out that "stretch" should be a  
> parameter in any tuning system. is this something which is part of  
> the MIDI Tuning Thingamabobbie or is it a completely fictitious thing  
> that STG for some demented reason wants in a digital Hammond organ to  
> be able to play with acoustic pianists? it seems to me this is  
> something useful to have under voltage control.
> ---
> Suit & Tie Guy
> suitandtieguy.com
> stgsoundlabs.com
>

On Aug 29, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Andre Majorel wrote:
>> it seems to me this is  something useful to have under voltage
>> control.
>
> V/oct CV into VCA with gain greater than unity ?

okay yes i feel a bit dumb for not thinking about that.

most of my interest in stretchyness is more for the Hammond organ,  
because i think that would be pretty psychedelic, i wasn't thinking  
properly about that part.
---
Suit & Tie Guy
suitandtieguy.com
stgsoundlabs.com

Stretch - Gasp! - Yes - OK - 

The description at 
http://www.fenderrhodes.org/rhodes/manual/ch5.html is a basic
description and is probably adequate.  Yeah - OK -

But to be really, really, really accurate (or, actually, somewhat more
perfectly inaccurate) "stretch" (or the ammount of imperfect tuning
that makes up for human hearing's predilections) is also dependent on
the peculiar "inharmonisity" of an instrument. 

Yeah - and in the case of a piano, this has to do with its strings. 
So the "stretch" I use for my Steinway "A" is somewhat  different from
my "D" and very different from my very cool old Yamaha String Electric
Grand (which is what I actually use for almost all of my recording,
believe it or not - but that's another story).

Yeah - so by finding the inhamonisity of the strings on each
instrument, I can tune them using unique "stretch" formulas - and let
me tell you - they do "sparkle" as a result.  And - go figure - they
sound just right even when played together.  Like - even though their
strings are tuned differently!

So in the case of my Hammond(s) and Allen Church-type-organ - well - I
never tested their "stretch". It's a fascinating idea, though.

The Hammond's tuning, of course, is determined by the RPM spin of its
tone generator - and as that's determined by the stability of the AC
power source.

I've tuned all my stringed instruments to an average "A" between my
Hammonds and my glockenspiels, the vibes, and xylophone (Approximately
A=440.52Hz).  From that "A," I've applied the unique "stretch"
formulas to the stringed instruments.

I've wondered what this all would mean regarding the tuning of VCOs
etc.  I intend to explore that eventually - and much to his chagrin,
I'll enlist Will's (my 16 YO son's) assistance in all this <LOL>.

Yeah - OK - for what it's worth... I think "stretch" has a place in
all this.  Question is, maybe, how should we control stretch?  Would
this be controllable by MIDI?  Now I'm way out of my depth.  You guys
tell me.  If "stretch is to be accommodated - well - how?

Thanks so much.

Bill (and Will)





--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Dave Manley <david_l_manley@...> wrote:
>
> There's a basic explanation and diagram showing how many
> cents to tune plus/minus across a keyboard here:
> 
> http://www.fenderrhodes.org/rhodes/manual/ch5.html
> 
> Scroll about halfway down or search for Stretch.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> Richard Brewster <pugix@...> wrote:                              
What is stretch?
>  
>  Richard Brewster
>  
>  Suit & Tie Guy wrote:
>  > as an aside, i thought i'd point out that "stretch" should be a  
>  > parameter in any tuning system. is this something which is part of  
>  > the MIDI Tuning Thingamabobbie or is it a completely fictitious
thing  
>  > that STG for some demented reason wants in a digital Hammond
organ to  
>  > be able to play with acoustic pianists? it seems to me this is  
>  > something useful to have under voltage control.
>  > ---
>  > Suit & Tie Guy
>  > suitandtieguy.com
>  > stgsoundlabs.com
>  >   
>  
>  
>      
>                                
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
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