MOTM

All - we want to develop a page on our site to present philosophies of
synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the subject
(and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when you
put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together and
why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you point
us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank you
all. Bill and Will

Great topic - I'll be watching eagerly (my synth is too small for any useful input at this stage)

synthesizers.com has a page for designing your own custom modular, that
includes ideas regarding module placement.

The left-to-right, bottom-to-up signal flow works for me, although;
there will always be a spiders web of patchcables as soon as you do
something out of the ordinary (which I tend to do all the time).

Other things that works for me:
VCOs to the left, VCFs to the right
EG and LFOs on top of that
Rare modules in the corners (of my cabinet)
Utilities modules (multiples, mixers etc.) in between all over the place
Analog sequecers on top of it all

> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present philosophies of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the subject
> (and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank you
> all. Bill and Will

Terje Winther

WintherStormer
email: wintherstormer@...
URL: http://www.wintherstormer.no/

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...> wrote:

>
> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present philosophies of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the subject
> (and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank you
> all. Bill and Will
>

Great idea, hope to see it soon.

I set up my modular in a left to right fashion (basically as you read a book), in the order
you would find most hard ware synths, taking VCO, VCF, VCA as the basic idea behind it.

I've put the ADSR modules between the VCF and VCA stages, as these are the two most
common uses for an ADSR (filter and amplifier), and therefore have short patch cords.
I've put the LFO's between the VCO and VCF modules, as also here the most common use
for an LFO is either to control pitch (vibrato for instance) or Filter, again logical and short
patch leads.

This of course is a very conventional approach, and works well for a smaller design, larger
modulars may have a completely different layout, or more wacky concepts.
I'd love to read about those.

Koos

Cool idea guys!

Having a fairly non-traditional setup, I'd be happy to add my layout.
If nothing else, it'll bug the purists. I've got a large, angled
main cabinet with two straight side cabinets stacked on the left. My
modules sort of fan out from the eight main MOTM VCOs which are
roughly in the center. There are VCAs, VCLFOs, VCFs, clocks, EGs and
other controllers, and then finally the mixers and odd stuff -
Wogglebug, alternate VCOs, Freq Shifter, etc.

Sometimes it's extremely efficient, but not always! Sometimes it
invites "rat's nest" patching! Still, it seems to allow me to flow
from the VCOs or, alternatively, from the "normal" VCF bank ('440s,
'420, '410s) when they become the audio source.

I can't wait to get other's ideas about this subject, because there
certainly isn't a single right way. Besides, I'm open to change!

Chub

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...> wrote:
>
> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present philosophies of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the subject
> (and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank you
> all. Bill and Will
>

Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.

My layout reminds me of the Smithsonian. I had a great organization
and then I outgrew my structure and have expanded into two overflow
buildings.

I started with oscillators grouped together on the left in the
middle cabinet and filters on the right in the middle cabinet. The
lower cabinet was for my control and modulation sources so keyboard,
envelope generators, lfos, etc. The top right cabinet I reserved
for +5 modules (since that's where the triple supply is) and my more
complex modules so ribbon, MIDI-CV, Miniwave, TimeMachine, etc. I
also put my VCAs so they'd be close to my filters.

Then the order ended. I had my analog interfaces on the left to be
close to the reel-reel which is now on the right. My overflow
cabinet has filters, lfos, controllers, preamps, and mixers. I did
put both of my programmable controllers in one case on a dedicated
power supply.

I found with my cabinets that the physical aspect of the module had
a lot to do with placement. My spring reverb needed to be on a side
so the reverb tank was as far away from the power supply as
possible. My deeper modules needed to be in specific locations to
avoid the power supply and power distribution boards. The short
modules needed to be in front of the power supply. +5 modules need
to be in the cabinet with the triple power supply.

In retrospect, the only thing that made patching easier was to group
the modules that tend to have dedicated interconnects. The envelope
generators all need triggers and gates. The filters and vcos all
need 1v/oct CVs so I put multiples in the centers of these module
groupings.

I tended to move modules around to try and keep a logical order but
eventually decided this was too much work for too little gain. I
did replace all the screws with 5/16" and plastic washers to not
mark up the panel faces.

I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep the filters and
vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds).

Dave

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" <wjhall@...> wrote:
>
> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present
philosophies
of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the
subject
> (and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when
you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together
and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you
point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank
you
> all. Bill and Will
>

My layout reminds me of the Smithsonian. I had a great organization
and then I outgrew my structure and have expanded into two overflow
buildings.

I started with oscillators grouped together on the left in the
middle cabinet and filters on the right in the middle cabinet. The
lower cabinet was for my control and modulation sources so keyboard,
envelope generators, lfos, etc. The top right cabinet I reserved
for +5 modules (since that's where the triple supply is) and my more
complex modules so ribbon, MIDI-CV, Miniwave, TimeMachine, etc. I
also put my VCAs so they'd be close to my filters.

Then the order ended. I had my analog interfaces on the left to be
close to the reel-reel which is now on the right. My overflow
cabinet has filters, lfos, controllers, preamps, and mixers. I did
put both of my programmable controllers in one case on a dedicated
power supply.

I found with my cabinets that the physical aspect of the module had
a lot to do with placement. My spring reverb needed to be on a side
so the reverb tank was as far away from the power supply as
possible. My deeper modules needed to be in specific locations to
avoid the power supply and power distribution boards. The short
modules needed to be in front of the power supply. +5 modules need
to be in the cabinet with the triple power supply.

In retrospect, the only thing that made patching easier was to group
the modules that tend to have dedicated interconnects. The envelope
generators all need triggers and gates. The filters and vcos all
need 1v/oct CVs so I put multiples in the centers of these module
groupings.

I tended to move modules around to try and keep a logical order but
eventually decided this was too much work for too little gain. I
did replace all the screws with 5/16" and plastic washers to not
mark up the panel faces.

I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep the filters and
vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds).

Dave


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" wrote:
>
> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present
philosophies
of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the
subject
> (and thus also benefit from them ). So - for instance - when
you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together
and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you
point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank
you
> all. Bill and Will
>





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My layout reminds me of the Smithsonian. I had a great organization
and then I outgrew my structure and have expanded into two overflow
buildings.

I started with oscillators grouped together on the left in the
middle cabinet and filters on the right in the middle cabinet. The
lower cabinet was for my control and modulation sources so keyboard,
envelope generators, lfos, etc. The top right cabinet I reserved
for +5 modules (since that's where the triple supply is) and my more
complex modules so ribbon, MIDI-CV, Miniwave, TimeMachine, etc. I
also put my VCAs so they'd be close to my filters.

Then the order ended. I had my analog interfaces on the left to be
close to the reel-reel which is now on the right. My overflow
cabinet has filters, lfos, controllers, preamps, and mixers. I did
put both of my programmable controllers in one case on a dedicated
power supply.

I found with my cabinets that the physical aspect of the module had
a lot to do with placement. My spring reverb needed to be on a side
so the reverb tank was as far away from the power supply as
possible. My deeper modules needed to be in specific locations to
avoid the power supply and power distribution boards. The short
modules needed to be in front of the power supply. +5 modules need
to be in the cabinet with the triple power supply.

In retrospect, the only thing that made patching easier was to group
the modules that tend to have dedicated interconnects. The envelope
generators all need triggers and gates. The filters and vcos all
need 1v/oct CVs so I put multiples in the centers of these module
groupings.

I tended to move modules around to try and keep a logical order but
eventually decided this was too much work for too little gain. I
did replace all the screws with 5/16" and plastic washers to not
mark up the panel faces.

I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep the filters and
vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds).

Dave


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" wrote:
>
> All - we want to develop a page on our site to present
philosophies
of
> synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the
subject
> (and thus also benefit from them ). So - for instance - when
you
> put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together
and
> why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you
point
> us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank
you
> all. Bill and Will
>





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My experience has been much like Dave's. As you add cabinets, your
module placement options expand. You have to consider things like
vertical proximity, depth restriction in some places because of a power
supply, angle of cabinet face (modules with Stooge 4-pot long brackets
don't fit on the bottom row of a dot com slant cabinet), and so forth.

I also take into consideration the aesthetic of the whole look, which is
very subjective. And I change my mind. Each added module causes some
shuffle. But what the heck -- it's a modular! They are meant to be
moved. Especially if you have good steel flat bars with machined screw
holes. My wife always kids me when I announce that I'm "moving my
modules" again (they all look the same to her -- except for the Modcan
B). So, it's not the sort of thing you have to decide once and for
all. Try different arrangements. Eventually it will settle down.
Until you add a cabinet, and then it starts over again.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

djbrow54 wrote:

> My layout reminds me of the Smithsonian. I had a great organization
> and then I outgrew my structure and have expanded into two overflow
> buildings.
>
> I started with oscillators grouped together on the left in the
> middle cabinet and filters on the right in the middle cabinet. The
> lower cabinet was for my control and modulation sources so keyboard,
> envelope generators, lfos, etc. The top right cabinet I reserved
> for +5 modules (since that's where the triple supply is) and my more
> complex modules so ribbon, MIDI-CV, Miniwave, TimeMachine, etc. I
> also put my VCAs so they'd be close to my filters.
>
> Then the order ended. I had my analog interfaces on the left to be
> close to the reel-reel which is now on the right. My overflow
> cabinet has filters, lfos, controllers, preamps, and mixers. I did
> put both of my programmable controllers in one case on a dedicated
> power supply.
>
> I found with my cabinets that the physical aspect of the module had
> a lot to do with placement. My spring reverb needed to be on a side
> so the reverb tank was as far away from the power supply as
> possible. My deeper modules needed to be in specific locations to
> avoid the power supply and power distribution boards. The short
> modules needed to be in front of the power supply. +5 modules need
> to be in the cabinet with the triple power supply.
>
> In retrospect, the only thing that made patching easier was to group
> the modules that tend to have dedicated interconnects. The envelope
> generators all need triggers and gates. The filters and vcos all
> need 1v/oct CVs so I put multiples in the centers of these module
> groupings.
>
> I tended to move modules around to try and keep a logical order but
> eventually decided this was too much work for too little gain. I
> did replace all the screws with 5/16" and plastic washers to not
> mark up the panel faces.
>
> I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep the filters and
> vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
> generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds).
>
> Dave
>
>

> My experience has been much like Dave's. As you add cabinets, your
> module placement options expand. You have to consider things like
> vertical proximity, depth restriction in some places because of a power
> supply, angle of cabinet face (modules with Stooge 4-pot long brackets
> don't fit on the bottom row of a dot com slant cabinet), and so forth.

If you guys think that's bad, try setting up a large drum kit. ;-)

-->Neil

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
C. Neil Bradley - KE7IXP - The one eyed man in the land of the blind is not
king. He's a prisoner.

The noisiest module in my setup is the lamination buzz of one of my
power supply transformers. Drives me nuts so I just have to turn my
synth up louder. I run my supplies lightly loaded, with one power
supply per cabinet. My cabinets are 24U. Each cabinet has one power
supply in the center and a MOTM-960 distribution board on each side so
I can use the shorter power cables. Each power supply is loaded
somewhere between 40% and 60% of maximum rated current. I did have
turn-on issues with a couple of the power supplies where they would
crowbar with the capacitive loading and so I sequence each of the
MOTM-960 distribution boards so I am only powering on half the modules
at a time.

Filters and amps are all quiet. I detect no noise related to my UEG
and that power supply is at 40% load. I do have just a bit of hum in
my spring reverb since I can't get quite enough distance between the
transformer and my reverb tank - makes it sound authentic!

Everything in my synth setup runs off of one AC outlet. I do have a
ground isolation box that I use when routing audio to my studio gear.
It is needed with some gear, and other gear is OK without it.

I'd suggest (if easy) pulling a number of power cables, and connecting
them back in small groups to see when your noise returns. I know I
had to do this with my studio gear. Turns out the noise generator was
one of my AC protection power strips. I also found that if I run the
backlight of my computer LCD screen at less than 100% it puts a
horrible buzz in my audio. That took a long time to find.

Dave


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, michael stein <michael_david_stein@...>
wrote:

>
> Dave wrote: "I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep

the filters and

> vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
> generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds)."
>
> I would like a little more info on this. I have noisey amps and

filters. Another problem I have that someone may know how to
troubleshoot is that my Encore UEG's create little tick noises as they
advance from stage to stage. I have 2 and they both do it. This could
be from the noisey amps but I think I remember it happening without
the amps in the signal flow, any ideas?

> Thanks,
> -michael-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> djbrow54 <davebr@...> wrote:
> My layout reminds me of the Smithsonian. I had a great

organization

> and then I outgrew my structure and have expanded into two overflow
> buildings.
>
> I started with oscillators grouped together on the left in the
> middle cabinet and filters on the right in the middle cabinet. The
> lower cabinet was for my control and modulation sources so keyboard,
> envelope generators, lfos, etc. The top right cabinet I reserved
> for +5 modules (since that's where the triple supply is) and my more
> complex modules so ribbon, MIDI-CV, Miniwave, TimeMachine, etc. I
> also put my VCAs so they'd be close to my filters.
>
> Then the order ended. I had my analog interfaces on the left to be
> close to the reel-reel which is now on the right. My overflow
> cabinet has filters, lfos, controllers, preamps, and mixers. I did
> put both of my programmable controllers in one case on a dedicated
> power supply.
>
> I found with my cabinets that the physical aspect of the module had
> a lot to do with placement. My spring reverb needed to be on a side
> so the reverb tank was as far away from the power supply as
> possible. My deeper modules needed to be in specific locations to
> avoid the power supply and power distribution boards. The short
> modules needed to be in front of the power supply. +5 modules need
> to be in the cabinet with the triple power supply.
>
> In retrospect, the only thing that made patching easier was to group
> the modules that tend to have dedicated interconnects. The envelope
> generators all need triggers and gates. The filters and vcos all
> need 1v/oct CVs so I put multiples in the centers of these module
> groupings.
>
> I tended to move modules around to try and keep a logical order but
> eventually decided this was too much work for too little gain. I
> did replace all the screws with 5/16" and plastic washers to not
> mark up the panel faces.
>
> I'm running five power supplies so I did try to keep the filters and
> vcos on a single supply without any other modules that could
> generate noise or current variations (as in blinking leds).
>
> Dave
>
>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "wjhall11" wrote:
> >
> > All - we want to develop a page on our site to present
> philosophies
> of
> > synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the
> subject
> > (and thus also benefit from them ). So - for instance - when
> you
> > put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together
> and
> > why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
> > What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you
> point
> > us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank
> you
> > all. Bill and Will
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos

new Car Finder tool.

>

All - we want to develop a page on our site to present philosophies of
synth layout. We want to present your expert thoughts on the subject
(and thus also benefit from them <G>). So - for instance - when you
put your modules into your synth cases, what do you group together and
why? Do you put your Oscillators at the top, filters below? Why?
What have you found to be most intuitive / ergonomic? Can you point
us to publications on the subject that have influenced you? Thank you
all. Bill and Will

> I like Chub's idea of concentric module arrangements, but at this

point, I've consigned myself to the pasta. I don't think any
arrangement will defeat the syndrome.

>
> cheers,
> eric f

My layout only prevents cable tangling for the first few minutes of
patching. After that, it's a mess just like everyone else's!

Larry Hendry's Magic Bus idea would probably improve the situation for
those with large systems. Alas, Larry's ideas improved many things
for many people...

Chub

i've kind of got an ergonomic approach too

my layout is kinda simple and boring, but then my modular is kinda
smallish and audio-heavy.

signal flow is top-to-bottom and somewhat left-to-right.

the top 2 rows of the synth are mainly concerned with control stuff.
there's a MIDI to CV converter, MIDI sync/divider, noise source, VC
switches, CGS infinite melody / diatonic converter / gated
comparators / analogue shift / lag / etc. just south of this there is
a Hendry 2U PSU/mult which is generally used for CV, gate, and clock
bussing. i do a fair amount of clock mangling.

once the synth has decided on some CVs and gates etc, control passes
to the next row which is VCOs and envelopes. then once we have audio
signals, the flow goes to a bunch of filters, mixers, VCAs, and all
that. the final output VCA pair is bottom right.

the spag is limited to the 2nd row where all the crazy CGS stuff is.
then once something somehow makes it out of there, it thins out a bit
in the lower layers. it's all in a 38U 19" telco rack which is a
little restricting horizontally, but it's a lot of fun to work with
and in the dark i can pretend i'm chris franke circa 1980.

up and coming stuff include CGS 4-way filter bank, some kind of CGS
sequential switch action, probably another LFO or two, MFOS WSG,
Yamaha 156 filter module, etc.... and maybe another rack!

I/ve written here before that I don't have an integrated case setup for
my modular. Rather, I've divided it into "function blocks". Each
block is
about 10U worth of MOTM wide (less if I mix in wider modules like Dotcom
or Cynthia), and each has its own power supply and AC line cord.
The blocks can be combined or split up and moved around the room as
needed (hence the "Discombobulator"). I try to have at least one signal
source, one control source, and one signal modifier in each block, and
in general there is a left-to-right flow across the block if
"conventional"
patching is used. As an example, I've got one block with a space
reserved
for a Miniwave of some sort, a MOTM-320 VCO, a MOTM-101 S/H,
a space reserved for a VCA, an MOTM-890 mixer, and a Cynthia
StereoSpace. Another block has a Dotcom Q130 clipper, a MOTM-510
WaveWarper, three different filters, and an MOTM-890 mixer. Currently
I have three blocks built, and I'm about to assemble a fourth as soon
as I get the power supplies ordered. I'm also in the process of putting
tops on them so I can stack them (right now they're open from all
directions
except the front and bottom).

Chub writes:

>>I can't wait to get other's ideas about this subject, because there

certainly isn't a single right way. Besides, I'm open to change!<<

There's a general right way. That's to have audio flow from left to right
with modulation coming up from the bottom. That's the way almost all
pre-wired synths are laid out and how block diagrams are drawn out. That's
the way a modular should at least be attempted to be setup. Though case
size and apsect ratio, number of certain types of modules, power supply
requirements, and other stuff may detract from the above ideal.

-Elhardt