MOTM

Freq'in' sweet!!!

Just arrived today (five business days from ordering)and I still need
to figure out how to make full use of it.  Fun stuff!  Anyone have
wild patch ideas?

Thanks Tony!

Chub

>Anyone have
>wild patch ideas?
>

Yes, check the archives for JH's infinite phaser patch. Very sweet. 
Use pink or white noise as your sound source to set it up. You'll 
listen to it for hours and hours and ....

On 6/16/07, Charles Osthelder put forth:
>Freq'in' sweet!!!
>
>Just arrived today (five business days from ordering)and I still need
>to figure out how to make full use of it.  Fun stuff!  Anyone have
>wild patch ideas?

Well, it does wild very easily, as it can totally transform a sound
into something else at less than extreme settings.  So if you want to
make strange sounds, you probably don't need any serving suggestions
from us :)

While many have dismissed it as being only good for weird sounds, it
has a wealth of practical uses.  I often like to think about not what
it does, but rather what it doesn't do.  Unlike a filter or
filter-based effect it does not emphasize frequencies that are
already there, so it does not amplify certain harmonics over other
harmonics.  So unlike an EQ, it can be used to change the frequency
content of a sound without bringing out a note or making some notes
louder than others.  This is especially useful for percussion sounds
within a mix.

For the same reason, it is also good for adding inharmonics to
oscillator-based patches.  While I also find this useful for
percussion sounds, it can be used with piano and plucked instrument
sounds as well.

With subtle shift and feedback settings, it can create "phasing" and
"ambience".  I've found this works best with dry recordings of real
instruments.  It can also be used to create more noticeable stereo effects
with synthesizer sounds at less subtle settings.

It can be used to in the regeneration path of an effect to prevent
runaway feedback.  This isn't just useful for delays.  It can be used
with all sorts of BBD, DSP and mechanical effects where patching the
output back to the input would result in overload.  You might like to
try it with a flanger or reverb.  As the Encore Frequency Shifter
also has its own internal feedback path, you can come up with new
sounds very quickly.  In the same way, it is also useful for
convolution, as you can shift one sound to prevent common frequencies
from being reinforced excessively.

And, if you didn't have one already, you also have a quadrature
oscillator which can be used as a mod source for other modules...

I agree, Mark, wild is easy!  Last night I'd played with percussion
patches and the stereo movement was wonderful. Subtle phasing effects
are nice, but there's surely a lot more in this device.  Next is the
infinite phaser patch!

I'll be standing in front of the Engine of Chaos now...

Chub

> Well, it does wild very easily, as it can totally transform a sound
> into something else at less than extreme settings.  So if you want to
> make strange sounds, you probably don't need any serving suggestions
> from us :)
> 
> While many have dismissed it as being only good for weird sounds, it
> has a wealth of practical uses.  I often like to think about not what
> it does, but rather what it doesn't do.  Unlike a filter or
> filter-based effect it does not emphasize frequencies that are
> already there, so it does not amplify certain harmonics over other
> harmonics.  So unlike an EQ, it can be used to change the frequency
> content of a sound without bringing out a note or making some notes
> louder than others.  This is especially useful for percussion sounds
> within a mix.
> 
> For the same reason, it is also good for adding inharmonics to
> oscillator-based patches.  While I also find this useful for
> percussion sounds, it can be used with piano and plucked instrument
> sounds as well.
> 
> With subtle shift and feedback settings, it can create "phasing" and
> "ambience".  I've found this works best with dry recordings of real
> instruments.  It can also be used to create more noticeable stereo
effects

> with synthesizer sounds at less subtle settings.
> 
> It can be used to in the regeneration path of an effect to prevent
> runaway feedback.  This isn't just useful for delays.  It can be used
> with all sorts of BBD, DSP and mechanical effects where patching the
> output back to the input would result in overload.  You might like to
> try it with a flanger or reverb.  As the Encore Frequency Shifter
> also has its own internal feedback path, you can come up with new
> sounds very quickly.  In the same way, it is also useful for
> convolution, as you can shift one sound to prevent common frequencies
> from being reinforced excessively.
> 
> And, if you didn't have one already, you also have a quadrature
> oscillator which can be used as a mod source for other modules...
>

Another hour or so of play, more to report:

Achieved the barberpole/Shepard Generator effect.  It's not on par
with Juergen's example, but I honestly couldn't understand his patch
when trying to put it together on my system.  Still, it was fun to
here that effect!  That alone is worth the price of admission.

The Freq Shifter output/straight output in any fashion is very nice. 
In the same way the MOTM-410 gives you a stunning stereo (or greater)
space (one that I love so much I own two - one with an OMC-410!), the
FS gives you plenty of "headphone moments" with little effort.  The
range of those moments is quite wide, too, from a gentle swirl to
bouncy ricochets.  Add delay (the Blacet Time Machine begs to be added
to any FS patch!) and it's hard to contain the sound field. Not that
you should try...

I've yet to turn the feedback up beyond 2 o'clock without utterly
losing control of the input gain.  Clearly, external attenuation is in
order.  As many patches will require external mixers (you try to make
sense of the "infinite phaser" patch...), this is no fault of the FS.
 Also, deliberately allowing the input gain to wig out a bit was quite
entertaining!  Why yes, I do play electric guitar.  Why do you ask?

Lastly, do you like metallic robotic sound and strange harmonic
structures?  Oh, does Encore have the toy for you!  It will be
difficult to keep the Frequency Shifter out of patches for some time.

Chub - bang shifting as you read this




--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Osthelder" <chubtoast@...> wrote:

>
> I agree, Mark, wild is easy!  Last night I'd played with percussion
> patches and the stereo movement was wonderful. Subtle phasing effects
> are nice, but there's surely a lot more in this device.  Next is the
> infinite phaser patch!
> 
> I'll be standing in front of the Engine of Chaos now...
> 
> Chub
> 
> > Well, it does wild very easily, as it can totally transform a sound
> > into something else at less than extreme settings.  So if you want to
> > make strange sounds, you probably don't need any serving suggestions
> > from us :)
> > 
> > While many have dismissed it as being only good for weird sounds, it
> > has a wealth of practical uses.  I often like to think about not what
> > it does, but rather what it doesn't do.  Unlike a filter or
> > filter-based effect it does not emphasize frequencies that are
> > already there, so it does not amplify certain harmonics over other
> > harmonics.  So unlike an EQ, it can be used to change the frequency
> > content of a sound without bringing out a note or making some notes
> > louder than others.  This is especially useful for percussion sounds
> > within a mix.
> > 
> > For the same reason, it is also good for adding inharmonics to
> > oscillator-based patches.  While I also find this useful for
> > percussion sounds, it can be used with piano and plucked instrument
> > sounds as well.
> > 
> > With subtle shift and feedback settings, it can create "phasing" and
> > "ambience".  I've found this works best with dry recordings of real
> > instruments.  It can also be used to create more noticeable stereo
> effects
> > with synthesizer sounds at less subtle settings.
> > 
> > It can be used to in the regeneration path of an effect to prevent
> > runaway feedback.  This isn't just useful for delays.  It can be used
> > with all sorts of BBD, DSP and mechanical effects where patching the
> > output back to the input would result in overload.  You might like to
> > try it with a flanger or reverb.  As the Encore Frequency Shifter
> > also has its own internal feedback path, you can come up with new
> > sounds very quickly.  In the same way, it is also useful for
> > convolution, as you can shift one sound to prevent common frequencies
> > from being reinforced excessively.
> > 
> > And, if you didn't have one already, you also have a quadrature
> > oscillator which can be used as a mod source for other modules...
> >
>

As most of you have probably noticed, three of the outputs of the
MOTM-320 are 10Vpp, and the saw output is 5Vpp going from just above
ground to 5V.  While it does make the saw output more useful when
driving pedal inputs and other devices that don't like negative
voltages (as you can also change it to a more useful triangular
shape), it does make it is inconsistent with the other MOTM-320
outputs when used within the modular.  This makes its effect when
switching from another output not only a change the shape of the
modulation, but also half the range.

I'm not sure why it was designed that way, but is there an easy way
to change the saw output to a bipolar 10Vpp output?  It doesn't look
like there is, but I could be missing something.  So I thought I
would ask before I built a daughterboard.  Any ideas??

The saw output on my 320s are all 10 Vpp (when outputting a saw or 
ramp wave). When the SHAPE control is in the 12 o'clock position it 
outputs a triangle wave that is 0 to +5V.

>As most of you have probably noticed, three of the outputs of the
>MOTM-320 are 10Vpp, and the saw output is 5Vpp going from just above
>ground to 5V.  While it does make the saw output more useful when
>driving pedal inputs and other devices that don't like negative
>voltages (as you can also change it to a more useful triangular
>shape), it does make it is inconsistent with the other MOTM-320
>outputs when used within the modular.  This makes its effect when
>switching from another output not only a change the shape of the
>modulation, but also half the range.
>
>I'm not sure why it was designed that way, but is there an easy way
>to change the saw output to a bipolar 10Vpp output?  It doesn't look
>like there is, but I could be missing something.  So I thought I
>would ask before I built a daughterboard.  Any ideas??
>

It's a feature, not a bug.  To get a full sawtooth from the SAW output, 
the SHAPE pot has to be at 0 or 10.  Either of these positions results 
in a 10V p-p signal.  At 5 on the SHAPE dial you get a 0 to +5V triangle 
from the SAW out.  That is useful.  No other MOTM LFO produces a 0 to 
+5V triangle wave.  In between on the SHAPE pot gives you in-between shapes.

I have found that I use the SINE, TRI, and PULSE outputs of LFO's much 
more than the SAW outputs, anyway.

I suggest that if you want a constant 10V p-p SAW, you can use a 
MOTM-300 or 310 as an LFO.

Richard Brewster
http://www.pugix.com

Scott Juskiw wrote:

> The saw output on my 320s are all 10 Vpp (when outputting a saw or 
> ramp wave). When the SHAPE control is in the 12 o'clock position it 
> outputs a triangle wave that is 0 to +5V.
>
>   
>> As most of you have probably noticed, three of the outputs of the
>> MOTM-320 are 10Vpp, and the saw output is 5Vpp going from just above
>> ground to 5V.  While it does make the saw output more useful when
>> driving pedal inputs and other devices that don't like negative
>> voltages (as you can also change it to a more useful triangular
>> shape), it does make it is inconsistent with the other MOTM-320
>> outputs when used within the modular.  This makes its effect when
>> switching from another output not only a change the shape of the
>> modulation, but also half the range.
>>
>> I'm not sure why it was designed that way, but is there an easy way
>> to change the saw output to a bipolar 10Vpp output?  It doesn't look
>> like there is, but I could be missing something.  So I thought I
>> would ask before I built a daughterboard.  Any ideas??
>>
>>     
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On 2007-06-20 15:28 -0400, Mark wrote:

> As most of you have probably noticed, three of the outputs of the
> MOTM-320 are 10Vpp, and the saw output is 5Vpp going from just above
> ground to 5V.  While it does make the saw output more useful when
> driving pedal inputs and other devices that don't like negative
> voltages (as you can also change it to a more useful triangular
> shape), it does make it is inconsistent with the other MOTM-320
> outputs when used within the modular.  This makes its effect when
> switching from another output not only a change the shape of the
> modulation, but also half the range.
> 
> I'm not sure why it was designed that way, but is there an easy way
> to change the saw output to a bipolar 10Vpp output?  It doesn't look
> like there is, but I could be missing something.  So I thought I
> would ask before I built a daughterboard.  Any ideas??

Don't know but if you can't, the Oakley Little LFO has a single
sawtooth/triangle output that has, I believe, a constant output
amplitude regardless of the shape. It's not voltage-controlled,
though.

-- 
Andr\ufffd Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.

On 6/20/07, Scott Juskiw put forth:
>The saw output on my 320s are all 10 Vpp (when outputting a saw or
>ramp wave). When the SHAPE control is in the 12 o'clock position it
>outputs a triangle wave that is 0 to +5V.

My bad.  Upon further inspection, both of mine do the same thing.  So
I changed my LED indicator to saw to remind me of that fact.  I told
you I could be missing something :)

While I'm typing about the 320, how much of difference in frequency
range have you noticed between 320's??  For example, one of mine,
without any CV, has a top rate of 200 Hz, the other 30 Hz.  Is this
due to parts tolerances??  I can't measure their lowest rates with
the frequency counter I have, but if anyone is that curious I could
try using a stopwatch.

On 6/20/07, Richard Brewster put forth:
>It's a feature, not a bug.  To get a full sawtooth from the SAW output,
>the SHAPE pot has to be at 0 or 10.  Either of these positions results
>in a 10V p-p signal.  At 5 on the SHAPE dial you get a 0 to +5V triangle
>from the SAW out.  That is useful.  No other MOTM LFO produces a 0 to
>+5V triangle wave.  In between on the SHAPE pot gives you in-between shapes.

Apparently, it also gives you in-between amplitude and offset.

>I have found that I use the SINE, TRI, and PULSE outputs of LFO's much
>more than the SAW outputs, anyway.

I rarely ever use pulse, except as an occasional clock, and the fixed
triangle is pretty much the same as any other triangle, but the
variable sine shape is awesome!! I built a couple of 10Vpp to 0-5V
converters so I could use the 320 outputs with pedal inputs.

>I suggest that if you want a constant 10V p-p SAW, you can use a
>MOTM-300 or 310 as an LFO.

Well, unless I'm missing something again, the 320 does produce a
constant 10Vpp saw.

On 6/21/07, Andre Majorel put forth:
>
>Don't know but if you can't, the Oakley Little LFO has a single
>sawtooth/triangle output that has, I believe, a constant output
>amplitude regardless of the shape. It's not voltage-controlled,
>though.

I was surprised to hear that Oakley was back in business.  Imho, the
issue with third party PCB's is the difficulty in getting panels and
mounting brackets, and  the issue with Synthesis Technology diy is
the cost of the parts -- where the just pcb, panel, bracket and
billet parts, not including the knobs, jacks, and all the more common
parts, can cost more than the entire kit did.