MOTM

Hey Dave,
	I am not laughing (well I might be if you told me that your C-64 interface
was one of those sequential circuits things with the built in firmware).  I
still have a C-64 and MIDI interface that I find quite useful.  Actually
these days it is a C-128d so the CPU can be under the desk with a 1581
drive so I don't have to screw with 5 1/4 disks.  I have some very useful
software that I use with mine that I simply have no equivalent to on the
windoze platform.  MIDITERM is great and I have written some of my own
utilities to go with it (like how about a program that reaches into a sysex
file, snags out the patch names, formats it and sends it to a printer). 
That made organizing my DSS-1 stuff a snap.  And, ever try to sysex a
MKS-80?  The little poop only gives up 4 patches at a time until you
acknowledge (takes 16 of them).  MIDITERM for C-64 makes this a breeze.  I
have another little program that lines up sysex files (sequences in
particular) and spits them out by simply tapping the space bar.  I used
this on stage with a SX-64 and M1 since the poor M1 had no disk drive nor
decent sequencer memory.  THE SX would get the next song ready while you
were playing one in the M1 (or whatever).  At end of song,  just tap, and 1
second of sysex later, the next song is ready.

I no longer have either CZ-101 but still have a CZ-1000.  It is on that
list of things that I will never part with because the money it would bring
is not worth the enjoyment I get from it occasionally.  My first
introduction to anything serious MIDI was my CZ-101 and C-64.

Larry (still likes Commie stuff too) Hendry

> From: DAVEVOSH@...
> jb,
> far be it from me to laugh......... i still have a c-64 hooked up thru a
midi 
> interface to a casio cz-101!  ( even though my main midi computers are a 
> family of 3 amigas - 2 for midi control and one for sampling ) :^)   i`ve

> always found  "free" to be a very compelling argument. plus, my equipment

> "arsenal" ( now there`s a "don`t laugh" ) is modest at best. i sometimes
feel 

> a twinge of envy for the folks who have a ton of stuff. still, i have fun

> with what i have and i guess thats the main thing..........
> best,
> dave

In a message dated 99-12-15 21:31:09 EST, you write:

<< I have some very useful
 software that I use with mine  >>



larry,
the majority of my use is with a program called "s.a.c." ( stochastic 
algorithm composer ) written by a really brilliant guy i know named jack 
deckard. he later licensed it to dr.t for inclusion in a package they sold. i 
use a few other bits and pieces he wrote for the c-64 also and a sequencing 
program from systech. no where near "state of the art" but, like i said, i 
have fun........ :^)
the amiga`s are great machines for music, too. running a dr. t sequencing 
program, a freeware program called "algorythms" ( "composing" program ) and 
other assorted bric-a-brac for sampling ( love that 8 bit quality! ).
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-12-15 21:31:09 EST, you write:

<< MIDITERM >>


larry,
not familiar with that one.....
best,
dave

larry wrote:

blah blah MIDI blah MIDI blah...

<<<

whoa.  you guys are killing me.  i haven't turned on a MIDI device in the
past 2 weeks (the 909 is using din sync).  i have been just digging into my
cv machines and having a blast.  when you start talking about sysex, iget
thatill feeling in my stomach..oh wait, that's from the cookies...where was
i..

oh, you start talking about programming MIDI and sysex and things like that.
i see MIDI as little more than note value and velocity, and a clock pulse.
i can't stand to shove bits down that serial line.  as for using it to
sequence, i find the timing is terrible.  i prefer to use devices with built
in sequencers and arps.  the fun for me is connecting it all up in a
spaghetti of triggers and cv's.  that's fun.

staring a a monitor is not making music...unless i can clock my CPU from my
606, i don't want the computer in teh studio :)

-steve

In a message dated 99-12-16 00:14:28 EST, you write:

<< staring a a monitor is not making music...unless i can clock my CPU from my
 606, i don't want the computer in teh studio :)
  >>



steve,
you are right, staring at a monitor is not making music. it can be part of 
the process however. yes, i have midi sequencing prog`s but they are not my 
primary use. for me, it is the algorithmic composition stuff where i can set 
a bunch of initial parameters and let the thing run and mutate. very much an 
outgrowth of process automation ( to use an old `60's art term ) and "dream 
machines" ( to paraphrase from vol.2 of the alan strange book ). sysex, etc. 
is pretty much beyond me or at any rate what i use midid for primarily. heck, 
before the 64 and amiga`s, i used a paia keyboard with a micro built in ( the 
8700 ) and i never ran its seq type prog`s only the "algorithmic" stuff they 
supplied ( 2 progs ) and stuff friends and i cobbled together. this drove a 7 
panel s**** modular that i used to own. now, one amiga does the same sort of 
thing with my d****** modular. i`m an old modular guy from way back. there 
are things about computer control / midi that i like but a lot of it doesn`t 
do what i`m interested in or at least not easily enough to be worth it to me. 
hence, my rudimentary arsenal of midi kybds, a cz-101 and a miracle kybd. a 
friend once told me that midi was the great homogenizer. i`m not sure that 
he`s right but i do wonder......
best,
dave

In a message dated 99-12-16 00:53:33 EST, you write:

<< Generic MIDI sysex storage program >>



larry,
oh...okay. interesting but not what i usually use midi for.
thanks for the info.
best,
dave

Stooge Larry wrote:

 I cannot imagine a studio not
equipped for MIDI sysex of instrument memories.  Not mine, anyhow.


<<<

i guess i would need more than my 3 midi analogue synths to realize this.
send your jp6 my way.  :P

i guess i have been "blessed" with machines that have more patch storage
than sounds they can make, ie juno 106.

i have spen the entire evening listening to the same loop but only changing
one parameter only slightly to see if i notice the change over a great span
of time.  i recorded it and then just spend the past 74 minutes listening to
it.

i don't know what i'd do if i had midi control over those slow knob turnings
:)

-steve

> From: "velure" <velure@...>
> whoa.  you guys are killing me.  i haven't turned on a MIDI device in the
> past 2 weeks (the 909 is using din sync).  i have been just digging into
my
> cv machines and having a blast.  when you start talking about sysex, iget
> thatill feeling in my stomach..oh wait, that's from the cookies...where
was
> i..


Well, when you have great analog machines like a OB-8 and JP-6, you REALLY
appreciate MIDI as a sysex storage tool for analog patch data.  You see,
the JP-6 has a cassette tape interface for patch storage that basically
sucks, and the OB-8 has MIDI for same.  I cannot imagine a studio not
equipped for MIDI sysex of instrument memories.  Not mine, anyhow.

Stooge Larry

> << MIDITERM >>
> 
> larry,
> not familiar with that one.....
> best,
> dave

Generic MIDI sysex storage program.  Before PC world, I used it to store
1000s of patches for my CZ-101 and other synths.  Very basic OPEN
architecture that lets you enter the hex codes to send to the synth.  It
was fun to open up the MIDI codes section in the back of the synth manual
and start hacking.

Larry

Jack is a cool guy.  He used to frequently attend and give presentations at
a club I help run (formerly Columbus MIDI Users' Group (CMUG), now Columbus
Electronic Musicians (CEM)).  Very cool software and not enough recognition.
Quite a few of the things he has written could be the basis for commercial
pieces of software.

Is he aware of the MOTM?  I showcased the MOTM at the last CEM meeting with
great success, but Jack wasn't there.  I am sure he would have been
interested.

--Todd

> << I have some very useful
>  software that I use with mine  >>
> larry,
> the majority of my use is with a program called "s.a.c." ( stochastic
> algorithm composer ) written by a really brilliant guy i know named jack
> deckard. he later licensed it to dr.t for inclusion in a package they
sold. i
> use a few other bits and pieces he wrote for the c-64 also and a
sequencing
> program from systech. no where near "state of the art" but, like
> i said, i have fun........ :^)
> the amiga`s are great machines for music, too. running a dr. t sequencing
> program, a freeware program called "algorythms" ( "composing" program )
and
> other assorted bric-a-brac for sampling ( love that 8 bit quality! ).
> dave

> From: velure <velure@...>
> 
> i guess i would need more than my 3 midi analogue synths to realize this.
> send your jp6 my way.  :P

If I could have only one (non-MOTM) synth from my collection it would be
the JP-6.  It will leave my possession via "last will and testament."
 
> i guess i have been "blessed" with machines that have more patch storage
> than sounds they can make, ie juno 106.

Yes, but when the battery dies, ALL of your precious patches are lost if
not backed up.  The Juno-106 is one of those beasts that supports both tape
dump and MIDI sysex.  Now lets see, which should you use....  No brainer
really.  I treat my patches like my computer hard drive, backed up to the
max (at least 2 copies, in two different formats).  OK, I am anal about it
I know.

Stooge Larry

In a message dated 99-12-16 07:10:11 EST, you write:

<< 
 Is he aware of the MOTM?  I showcased the MOTM at the last CEM meeting with
 great success, but Jack wasn't there.  I am sure he would have been
 interested.
  >>



todd,
yeah, jack is a great guy. he`s written some amazing software over the years.
as to motm, well, when i last talked to him ( a couple of months back) he 
seems to have stopped using modular stuff in favor of an all midi setup. felt 
he had greater repeatability and control. i`m not sure i agree with him but 
to each his own. 
way back in the dark ages he did some fantastic stuff in 6502 assembler for 
the paia microprocessor / keyboard combo that was mind boggling. at the time, 
he had it hooked up to a s*****. my setup at the time was like his, micro / 
kybd and s**** modular. in my case, health and life crisises forced me to 
sell my modular ( at least to another good friend and fantastic synthesist, 
john wiggins ). after feeling the terrible loss for too long and after a 
struggle to get back to some stability, i`m once again a modular person. 
hurray! sadly, at the moment, not motm but i`m hoping to add a couple of motm 
modules to my machine in the new year as there are some places where i see 
they could be a strong addition. i was pointed to this list by a collaborator 
of pauls who told me there was some interesting stuff going on here. he was 
right and if nothing else, i find myself stimulated by the modular oriented ( 
well, mostly..... ) discussions here. for me, it promotes thinking and thats 
always a good thing!
best,
dave

On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 DAVEVOSH@... wrote:

> way back in the dark ages he did some fantastic stuff in 6502 assembler for 
> the paia microprocessor / keyboard combo that was mind boggling. at the time, 

  What did he write?  I'd like to see it.

  I remember running the algorithmic composers on the 8700.  And, running
that Algorhythms program on the Amiga, among other things.  (Until the
death of CBM I used Amigas almost exclusively.  I still use one for video
subtitling, MIDI sequencer, and the AD516 8-track HD recorder).

  I would sort of like to create a module that generates the same sort of
algorithmic CVs and gates.  Would be interesting...

  --Crow

/**/

In a message dated 99-12-17 21:34:39 EST, you write:

<<  What did he write?  I'd like to see it. >>



he may still have the sources to the programs, sadly i don`t any longer. but 
he had written a 4 channel delay oriented sequencer called "relayer" and a 
new operating enviroment ( can you call it that when it runs on a micro with 
1 k of ram ?  :^)  ) called polykybd that tied together a bunch a stuff and 
made it mode switchable from the keypad. there was more but a) hopefully you 
get the idea and b) i`ve forgotten a bunch of stuff about it over the years. 
still, it was all neat stuff.
re: amiga`s - well, cbm might have died but the very active amiga community 
keeps the flame alive. i wouldn`t part with mine even though they are 
"obsolete".
re: algomodule -- something that did cv`s and gate`s in an algorithmic 
fashion would be cool. at the moment, i use random voltage generators ( 3 in 
my current modular ) for the creation of  "dream machines" for uncorrelated 
cv changes but a good source of regular to random gates would be very useful 
to me. diddling around with lfo`s, sequencers, s/h and switching modules to 
create a source of these can be a bit tedious ( although sometimes neat 
things fall out through serendipity ( a force never to be overlooked ! ) ) 
and something more "focused" would be useful. whether it would be useful to 
many others though is an open question. given my esthetic, i`m frequently 
more interested in the process than the tune.
my midi to cv converter produces one "pitch" cv and one "velocity 
(secondary)" cv and i have used this being driven by the algorythms program 
on the amiga also.
best,
dave