MOTM

Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
a real module.  They are really cool and I'd love to add one to my rig...

Mike

any collection of resonant bandpass filters in parallel can be a 
vowel filter. you just have to crank the resonance and get the centre 
frequencies right.

the motm-410 can do this all by itself, just turn off the LFO mod. i 
think there's a vocal sample up on the 410 page, even.

what filters do you have? minimum config for this trick is two 
resonant lowpass filters (and preferably some EQ).

>Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
>featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
>a real module.  They are really cool and I'd love to add one to my rig...
>
>Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <michael_marsh@...> wrote:
>
> Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
> featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
> a real module.  They are really cool and I'd love to add one to my
rig...
> 
> Mike
>

There's some interesting info over at Wikipedia about formants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formant_synthesis

You can get some vocalesque sounds using the 410. 

Anyboy have a recipe for a good MOTM-based vocal sound?

Thanks to all that replied!

I've used the 410 in this way and to some degree the 420.  The 410
does not have *quite* enough resonance but I can remedy that by
feeding it back into itself.  It's still kind of static, though.

The filters I've used in VA's have morph between a series of vowel
sounds (eeee-aaayyy-ohhhh-oooo) and at high resonance you can get some
woody timbres from low frequencies.

I was just wondering if it's even possible in the analog domain at a
reasonable price?

Mike


--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "elle_webb" <elle_webb@...> wrote:

>
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <michael_marsh@> wrote:
> >
> > Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
> > featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
> > a real module.  They are really cool and I'd love to add one to my
> rig...
> > 
> > Mike
> >
> 
> There's some interesting info over at Wikipedia about formants:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formant_synthesis
> 
> You can get some vocalesque sounds using the 410. 
> 
> Anyboy have a recipe for a good MOTM-based vocal sound?
>

You need a series of high-Q bandpass filters with variable gain. Like a filter 
section of a vocoder (cough).

www.synthtech.com/demo/jh_freeze_ahh_1.mp3

www.synthtech.com/demo/jh_freeze_ohh_1.mp3

Paul S.

well... if you need to VC the bandpass frequencies to get morphing, 
you could add the oakley 410 expander to your 410.

however it's tough to compete with something like a nord micromodular 
for stuff like this. does doepfer have a vc filter bank perchance?

>Thanks to all that replied!
>
>I've used the 410 in this way and to some degree the 420.  The 410
>does not have *quite* enough resonance but I can remedy that by
>feeding it back into itself.  It's still kind of static, though.
>
>The filters I've used in VA's have morph between a series of vowel
>sounds (eeee-aaayyy-ohhhh-oooo) and at high resonance you can get some
>woody timbres from low frequencies.
>
>I was just wondering if it's even possible in the analog domain at a
>reasonable price?
>
>Mike

Jim Patchell had a DIY project for vocal filtering:

http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vocalfilter.html

PCBs no longer available, though he provides gerber files if you want to
make your own.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Marsh
> 
> I've used the 410 in this way and to some degree the 420.  The 410
> does not have *quite* enough resonance but I can remedy that by
> feeding it back into itself.  It's still kind of static, though.
> 
> The filters I've used in VA's have morph between a series of vowel
> sounds (eeee-aaayyy-ohhhh-oooo) and at high resonance you can get some
> woody timbres from low frequencies.
> 
> I was just wondering if it's even possible in the analog domain at a
> reasonable price?
>

Electronotes #102, June 1979, is entirely devoted to Bernie Hutchins' 
Vocal Effects Waveform Animator (VEWA).    It is comprised of three 
state-variable VCF's with bandpass outputs, a fixed bandpass filter, and 
a VC notch filter.  These are driven by a bank of five VC LFO's.  It 
uses a boatload of CA3080 chips.  The article is worth a read, even if 
you don't want to build something like this yourself.

-Richard Brewster

http://www.pugix.com

Mike Marsh wrote:

>Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
>featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
>a real module.  They are really cool and I'd love to add one to my rig...
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink" <jloffink@...> wrote:
>
> Jim Patchell had a DIY project for vocal filtering:
> 
> http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vocalfilter.html
> 
> PCBs no longer available, though he provides gerber files if you want to
> make your own.
> 
> John Loffink
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com>>

Most awesome and funny sounds I've heard out a synth in a long time!

Man! I'd sure like to have something like this.... 
I wonder what the front panel looked like....

- Dana
http://www.danacountryman.com

Mike Marsh writes:
>>Is there such a thing as an analog vowel filter?  these are often
featured on VA's (Micro Modular, Vaz, etc.) but I haven't seen one as
a real module.<<

Any vocal filter I have in a VA synth sounds lousy.  The only advantage they
have is that you can morph between vowel sounds with a single control.
You're better off with 12 db/oct resonant lowpass filters or 24 db/oct next
choice.  For some reason even the AS-360 Vocal/Phase 3 band filter bank
doesn't do as good a job as using separate filters.

elle_webb writes:
>>Anyboy have a recipe for a good MOTM-based vocal sound?<<

I've posted the demo below a while back.  It's an motm female voice played
against a recording of an orchestra, plus a couple of Doepfer male voices
that you can really only hear for a couple of seconds right at the
beginning.  Filesize: 930KB.

http://home.att.net/~elhardt2/MOTM_Female_Voice.mp3

Filters used were a 440 for preprocessing of the waveform, one 410, two 420s
(one in LP and one in HP), a 31 band EQ, and a VT-1 to move all the formants
around in one bulk.  I also must point out, there is also more to getting
good vocal sounds than just the filtering.  It's also about what gets fed
into the filters, and as in the Ion demos below, what's done after the
filters too.

Jason Proctor writes:
>>does doepfer have a vc filter bank perchance?<<

Yes.  They have a triple bandpass filter bank that is similar to some degree
to Analog Systems AS-360.

>>minimum config for this trick is two resonant lowpass filters (and
preferably some EQ).<<

That's the method used for most of this also previously posted Ion demo I
did showing a number of subtly different mellotron style choir patches.
Filesize: 2.24MB

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Ion_Tomitas_Mellotron.mp3

And below at about the 0:06 point is the Ion patch kind of saying "Wah" by
controlling the two filters with envelopes.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Alesis_Ion_Western.mp3

-Elhardt

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Paul Schreiber" 

> ... Like a filter section of a vocoder (cough).

What kind of a tease is that?! ;-D
Did everyone else miss it, or am I reading too much into it?
--
john (after a night out that included Ethiopian food -- really!)

I assume he's referring to that vocoder that JH
designed and that would be more or less ready for MOTM
production. I forget (for a good reason) how many
frequency bands that thing has (18?)....

Best,

Dino

 

--- john mahoney <jmahoney@...> wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Schreiber" 
> 
> > ... Like a filter section of a vocoder (cough).
> 
> What kind of a tease is that?! ;-D
> Did everyone else miss it, or am I reading too much
> into it?
> --
> john (after a night out that included Ethiopian food
> -- really!)
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     motm-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


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He's referring to the Mother of All Vocoders. The filter section
prototype was built long ago, but I haven't heard any news since. It
was contemplated as rack mount, many bands, and many dollars.

Moe
http://www.stoogeindustries.com

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "john mahoney" <jmahoney@...> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Paul Schreiber" 
> 
> > ... Like a filter section of a vocoder (cough).
> 
> What kind of a tease is that?! ;-D
> Did everyone else miss it, or am I reading too much into it?
> --
> john (after a night out that included Ethiopian food -- really!)
>

It has 43 knobs according to the front panel schematic.  I believe that's
past the point where a pure analog implementation becomes more troublesome
than useful, and some programmability is required, for memorizing all those
settings.

John Loffink
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dana
> Countryman
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "John Loffink" <jloffink@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jim Patchell had a DIY project for vocal filtering:
> >
> > http://www.oldcrows.net/~patchell/synthmodules/vocalfilter.html
> >
> 
> Most awesome and funny sounds I've heard out a synth in a long time!
> 
> Man! I'd sure like to have something like this....
> I wonder what the front panel looked like....
>

Although not as controllable, envelope filters can be used to create 
vocal sounds.    A friend of mine often made his TB-303 "talk" by 
running its output through two Mutron III's in series :)

It appears that Analog-Labs is releasing a comparable vocoder product.
Pre-release price appears to be 1290 Euro.

 

http://www.analog-lab.com/x32-fr.htm

 

John Loffink

The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com

The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site

http://www.wavemakers-synth.com

-----Original Message-----
From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of eric f
 

Paul had posted early last year that the price on such a unit, a sort of
dream project, was $2.8k and I can only assume that that figure would be
higher today.  

 


mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...> wrote:

He's referring to the Mother of All Vocoders. The filter section
prototype was built long ago, but I haven't heard any news since. It
was contemplated as rack mount, many bands, and many dollars.

 

  _____

----- Original Message ----- 

From: eric f
>
> Paul had posted early last year that the price on such a unit, a sort of
dream project, was $2.8k and I can only assume that that figure would be
higher today.

Yes, I remember that discussion, now. Thanks! The concept was a 21-band
vocoder. Somebody suggested breaking it up into smaller units, so I
suggested a 7-band version (you could use 1, 2, 3, or more).
--
john

Gotta say - that sounds ridiculously good. Or as they might say: "Ça, 
c'est dingue!"

Matthew

On 19-Feb-06, at 12:39 PM, John Loffink wrote:

> It appears that Analog-Labs is releasing a comparable vocoder 
> product.  Pre-release price appears to be 1290 Euro.
>
>  
>
> http://www.analog-lab.com/x32-fr.htm
>
>  
>
> John Loffink
>
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
>
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
>
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> eric f
>  
>
> Paul had posted early last year that the price on such a unit, a sort 
> of dream project, was $2.8k and I can only assume that that figure 
> would be higher today. 
>
>   
>
>
> mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...> wrote:
>
> He's referring to the Mother of All Vocoders. The filter section
> prototype was built long ago, but I haven't heard any news since. It
> was contemplated as rack mount, many bands, and many dollars.
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
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__________________________________________________
www.bodega-audio.com
Bodega/Bootleg Sounds. Fat East Coast. Distillery Mastering.

Hi John,

> It appears that Analog-Labs is releasing a comparable vocoder 
> product.  Pre-release price appears to be 1290 Euro.
>
I think the info did not cross yet  the oceans very well  whatever some 
web sites say...

the X32 has been released 2 years ago (2004)  ... so it is not a "pre 
release" at all  but a full sales status ... It has been presented at 
the Francfurt Music messe last year too

1290 euros is the actual public price you can get at any music shop who 
distribute our products ( mostly in the EU area ...but i hope this will 
change soon)

I know well  the Analog Labs compagny as they are located just nearby 
where i live . I am working for them since few monthes ( design of new 
products and  after sales services/repairs/ customs mods...)

I also have a X32 at home so  if you need more infos about this unique 
beast , just ask me :)

Cheers,

Marc B.

> http://www.analog-lab.com/x32-fr.htm
>
>  
>
> John Loffink
>
> The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
>
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>
> The Wavemakers Synthesizer Web Site
>
> http://www.wavemakers-synth.com
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* motm@yahoogroups.com [mailto:motm@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf 
> Of *eric f
>  
>
> Paul had posted early last year that the price on such a unit, a sort 
> of dream project, was $2.8k and I can only assume that that figure 
> would be higher today. 
>
>  
>
>
> */mate_stubb <mate_stubb@...>/* wrote:
>
> He's referring to the Mother of All Vocoders. The filter section
> prototype was built long ago, but I haven't heard any news since. It
> was contemplated as rack mount, many bands, and many dollars.
>
>  
>
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