MOTM

It's more modules, but you can easily use the MOTM Lag & Router modules
as a gate conditioner to achieve this effect.

(In fact, you can use the Lag module as an AR contour generator.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry T. [mailto:larry@...] 
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:15 AM
To: motm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [motm] More Questions about EG's

Good Day All

I'm curious about what is available in a DADSR Envelope Generator.  A
VC EG would be nice, (hey, how about a VC DADSR?!?!) but some of the
sounds I would like to generate require a delay for seconday
VCO/VCF/VCA controls in order to create additional morphing in the
sounds.

Are there any DADSR's anyone has used and liked (VC or otherwise)?

Are there any DADSR's from the DIY community that I should check out?
 (I can handle a soldering iron pretty well.  I'm not afraid to buy
parts and stuff boards.  Perf board and breadboarding is something I'm
getting to...)

For that matter, what about AR and/or DAR EG's.

I do want to stick to equipment that operates on +/-15v (+5v is okay
as well).

Larry T.




 
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"D"- and "H"-ADSR are marginally different, no? "D" delays the onset of
the rise portion of the gate while "H" holds the gate high longer.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tentochi [mailto:tentochi2003@...] 
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:22 AM
To: MOTM
Subject: Re: [motm] More Questions about EG's

Larry--

Paul will probably never release a DADSR EG (aka HADSR).  The basic
philosophy
of MOTM is to break functionality into smaller units for increased
versatility.

What is on the books is a gate/trigger delay unit.  Old Crow has
finished the
digital portion and he is just waiting for Paul to get to it.  What I
know
about it sounds pretty nice!  Maybe next year....?

The VC EG has been discussed many times here and at length, but not
recently. 
The bottom line is that the usefulness of VC certain stages has very
little
practical usage.  Several hybrid designs were proposed.

Cheers!
Shemp

--- "Larry T." <larry@...> wrote:
> I'm curious about what is available in a DADSR Envelope Generator.  A
> VC EG would be nice, (hey, how about a VC DADSR?!?!) but some of the
> sounds I would like to generate require a delay for seconday
> VCO/VCF/VCA controls in order to create additional morphing in the
sounds.
> 
> Are there any DADSR's anyone has used and liked (VC or otherwise)?
> 
> Are there any DADSR's from the DIY community that I should check out?
>  (I can handle a soldering iron pretty well.  I'm not afraid to buy
> parts and stuff boards.  Perf board and breadboarding is something I'm
> getting to...)
> 
> For that matter, what about AR and/or DAR EG's.
> 
> I do want to stick to equipment that operates on +/-15v (+5v is okay
> as well).



		
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-----Original Message-----
>>...I personally find VC control of EG parameters
>to be extremely useful.

>>>I agree. I'm currently using UEG's as voltage controlled envelope 
generators. They have one control input to vary all the times, not as 
flexible as I'd like, but still quite useful.


There's a group of folks (not necessarily *here*) that have always
insisted that the idea of VC envelopes *sounds* more useful than they
really are in practice, but I can only think that these people are using
envelope generators in a very limited, Mini-Moog style capacity. It's
arguable in that context that you can get a touch-sensitive effect with
a static envelope and VC of other parameters, such as LPF Cutoff
Frequency. Or the *amount* of envelope modulation to Cutoff Frequency.

But I personally have always thought of envelope generators as more
generic "contour generators" and use them for all sorts of things, not
just controlling amplitude envelopes on imitation piano sounds.

It just seems like very limited thinking, especially in a modular, to
dismiss voltage control of one of the systems most fundamental modules
out-of-hand.

Now, it may be true that EVERY EG doesn't need to be VC'd. But having
one or two is sure a nice thought. And then shore those up with five or
six 800's for good measure.

>Now, it may be true that EVERY EG doesn't need to be VC'd. But having
>one or two is sure a nice thought. And then shore those up with five or
>six 800's for good measure.

Yes, yes, that's it exactly. I still use 800s for bread and butter 
"on/off with a bit of contour" envelopes. But when I want longer 
envelopes for controlling the level of a sine wave into the FM input 
on another oscillator, that's where I want voltage control.

AFAIK, different companies have just used different names for the same thing.

> "D"- and "H"-ADSR are marginally different, no? "D" delays the onset of
> the rise portion of the gate while "H" holds the gate high longer.

D - Delay
H - Hold

I am not even sure how an EG would hold the gate high longer....?  What synths
do this?  Is it a fixed amount of time added or a percentage?  It seems like
they would call that a ADSHR or something like that then, since that is where
it would affect the envelope.

--Shemp


		
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AHDSR. The hold period happens before the decay. The Minimoog does this 
naturally which is one of the reasons that it is considered "punchy."

Check out the envelopes on an Alesis Andromeda. Delay and hold, two 
release segments, loopable segments, ability to modulate almost every 
segment, seven different shapes for each segment (exponential, reverse 
exponential, linear, s-curve, etc.), freerun modes, dynamics control, 
etc. Sorry to drift off-topic, but that unit has the best-implemented 
envelopes I've encountered. It doesn't quite sound like a MOTM though, 
unfortunately for me. :)

On Sep 2, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Tentochi wrote:

> AFAIK, different companies have just used different names for the same 
> thing.
>
>  > "D"- and "H"-ADSR are marginally different, no? "D" delays the 
> onset of
>  > the rise portion of the gate while "H" holds the gate high longer.
>
>  D - Delay
>  H - Hold
>
>  I am not even sure how an EG would hold the gate high longer....?  
> What synths
>  do this?  Is it a fixed amount of time added or a percentage?  It 
> seems like
>  they would call that a ADSHR or something like that then, since that 
> is where
>  it would affect the envelope.
>
>  --Shemp
>
>
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Yes, now that you mention it, the Korg MS EG's had a Hold circuit there.

 

I guess there are three areas where it's useful to delay the onset of
the next stage - before the attack, between the attack and decay, and
between the sustain and release sections.

 

DADDSHR...?

 

 

  _____  

From: Jeff Laity [mailto:synthetic@...] 



AHDSR. The hold period happens before the decay. The Minimoog does this
naturally which is one of the reasons that it is considered "punchy." 

Check out the envelopes on an Alesis Andromeda. Delay and hold, two
release segments, loopable segments, ability to modulate almost every
segment, seven different shapes for each segment (exponential, reverse
exponential, linear, s-curve, etc.), freerun modes, dynamics control,
etc. Sorry to drift off-topic, but that unit has the best-implemented
envelopes I've encountered. It doesn't quite sound like a MOTM though,
unfortunately for me. :)

Well, it's not that I don't *want* to do a VCEG. The "problem" is I have 2
MOTM designers *both* with a VCEG design :)

Crow's CS-80 design has more parts and is more esoteric than JH's. I'm
waiting for Crow to source some hard-to-find parts. If it turns out that
these parts are just too much of a pain, then I can use JH's. However,
with things as they are, I'm only focusing on the here-and-now.

Paul S.

I could build the biploar VCEG _now_ if no one minded a 3U wide panel.  
However, I want it to be 2U, and for that it needs dual-concentric pots.  
If Tocos (Tokyo Cosmo) would get off their ass and send me my order, I'd
have it done.  But here I am, stuck figuring out the designs of
resin-potted GX-1 modules instead. ;)

  Maybe I'll move on to using UEG-style small pots & knobs and cram 12 of
them onto a panel just so I can finish the VC-EG prototype.

Crow
/**/