MOTM

I shouldn't admit this, but I had a similar thought about two weeks ago...
wondering if the pulse-division methodology in the PAIA "Stringz & Thingz"
could be adapted to a "pulse in/lots of pulses out" string module.

After that, I started studying the string section schematic from the Korg
Trident, but I can't exactly figure out what's happening there. I bought the
manual in anticipation of buying a Trident aeons ago, but never got the
machine, which makes it tough to follow the service manual.

Along similar lines, I started building Craig Anderton's "Pulse Width
Multiplier" circuit from an old issue of Polyphony. I got it 75% done when I
started ordering & building MOTM stuff two months ago, so it's gathering
dust right now. That's a "triangle or saw in/lots of juicy modulated pulses
out" circuit.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	The Old Crow [mailto:oldcrow@...]
		I had
		this sudden thought about analog string synthesizers, and
all at once
		the complete concept for a MIDI (and probably CV in) to
string voice
		module popped into my head in the form of uC code, dividers,
etc.

		  Anybody like strings? :)

On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Tkacs, Ken wrote:

> I shouldn't admit this, but I had a similar thought about two weeks ago...
> wondering if the pulse-division methodology in the PAIA "Stringz & Thingz"
> could be adapted to a "pulse in/lots of pulses out" string module.

  I was going to flip through the old String'N'Thingz' manual to see what
elements could prove useful in a module.

 
> After that, I started studying the string section schematic from the Korg
> Trident, but I can't exactly figure out what's happening there. I bought the
> manual in anticipation of buying a Trident aeons ago, but never got the
> machine, which makes it tough to follow the service manual.

  Send me copies/scans of the string section!

 
> Along similar lines, I started building Craig Anderton's "Pulse Width
> Multiplier" circuit from an old issue of Polyphony. I got it 75% done when I
> started ordering & building MOTM stuff two months ago, so it's gathering
> dust right now. That's a "triangle or saw in/lots of juicy modulated pulses
> out" circuit.

  Hm, another one I'll want to see, for reference.

  I hope to do everything inside one or two uC chips...

  ...whereupon I should note, while the uC is a digital device, it will be
essentially generating string pulse waveforms the same way as the
divider/multiplier chains of years gone by did.  It is just that today it
can be done inside a 50 MIPS 18-pin part instead of 30 CMOS gates and
'flops.

  --Crow

/**/

I'll try to remember to bring the Trident Service Manual and the Anderton
article in tomorrow. It may not be easy pulling the string section alone out
of the manual, but I'll try to be intelligent about what I excerpt.

It's sad, but in my poor days as a high school youth, I couldn't afford a
lot of synths, so I bought the damned service manuals for several keyboards
thinking I could build them myself (HA!). The *really* sad thing is...
fifteen years later, I started thinking the same thing all over again! Now
I'm more realistic, just trying to pilfer a snippet of circuit here or
there. But it's not my forte.

As thin and pitiful as the Stringz & Thingz may have been, I wrote a few
things on that beast that never sounded right on any other synthesizer sinc!
I think the awful SAD-1024 delay lines were so "tuned" that they gave the
thing a formant quality that was necessary to the music I wrote on it. I
thought about sampling the thing... now I'm thinking, build the output
shaper into a module and then run the thing through the Triple-Res filter.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	The Old Crow [mailto:oldcrow@...]

		  I was going to flip through the old String'N'Thingz'
manual to see what
		elements could prove useful in a module.

		   Send me copies/scans of the string section!

		   Hm, another one I'll want to see, for reference.

On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Tkacs, Ken wrote:

> As thin and pitiful as the Stringz & Thingz may have been, I wrote a few
> things on that beast that never sounded right on any other synthesizer sinc!
> I think the awful SAD-1024 delay lines were so "tuned" that they gave the
> thing a formant quality that was necessary to the music I wrote on it. I
> thought about sampling the thing... now I'm thinking, build the output
> shaper into a module and then run the thing through the Triple-Res filter.

  I have this vision of duplicating the Korg Polysix's voltage-controlled
effects board as a MOTM.  It would be a fierce one for kit-builders,
though--something like building 5 '300s.  The Korg board has a *crapload*
of parts on it, and to make it authentic I would have to use a few parts
that would strike fear into Paul's heart... <mumble>LM324<mumble>

  And I don't even know if I can get Panasonic MN3004s these days.

  --Crow

/**/

BBDs...eeech!!!

Rather use a digital approach.

a) I can get 32K x 8 SRAMs for $1.20. That's 1 second of delay at 32Khz
sample rate.
b) I can get 512K x 8 SRAMS for $18. That's about 12 seconds of CD audio
delay!
c) I can get 16-bit CD DACs for about $6
d) I can get 16-bit CD ADCs for about $13

Basically, everyone violated the Eminent (sp?) organ patent (the Dutch organ
JM Jarre loves so much)
It is considered the best-sounding string phaser: has 3 seperate delays with
3 different clocks
in a "cross-interleaved" format. I heard that it was sort of a rip-off of
the (in)famous Marshall Time Modulator
which has 5 seperate delays all cross-coupled.

Crow is right: with $3 PICs running 5-8 *million* instructions a second, you
can do amazing things!

Paul S.

> BBDs...eeech!!!

Awww, does this mean no MOTM VC analog delay?  John hasn't said whether
the Blacet Time Machine will be offered in kit form at all ... :)

(no hurry, I have 20 more years to play with synths than most of the list
anyway ... *ducks*)

peace,
Chris Jeris

Okay, I've got questions.
First, I love string patches on my Dx 100, & I probably have more experience
programming
& tweaking string patches on that than anything else.  So my experience
probably doesn't
translate to analog modularity, but this is what I'm wondering:
1. I was looking at the specs for the 120(don't have one yet), & was
thinking that maybe
with careful cross mod one might come up with some good stringy stuff ala
the Dx series.
The draw backs I see are no indie outs for the suboctaves (meaning you can't
get four
different envelopes going), & no real detuning capabilities.  Am I thinking
about this
in the right or wrong  manner? Am I a mo-ron?

tomr
(trying to get a hold of all this string theory)

Correct, the '120 sums the sub-octaves together.

But *imagine* a "super-120" with

a) individual outs
b) VC phase for each suboctave
c) VCA for each output

Nice module....hmmm.... ;)

Paul S.

> From: Christopher Jeris <cjeris@...>
> (no hurry, I have 20 more years to play with synths than most of the list
> anyway ... *ducks*)

OK Chris, I sent you that wire today you asked for.  You will notice it is
tied in a noose after that comment...
<snicker>
LH

In a message dated 99-11-01 17:35:31 EST, you write:

<< Craig Anderton's "Pulse Width
 > Multiplier" circuit from an old issue of Polyphony. I got it 75% done when 
I
 > started ordering & building MOTM stuff two months ago, so it's gathering
 > dust right now. That's a "triangle or saw in/lots of juicy modulated pulses
 > out" circuit. >>




FWIW, i used to have one of these in my previous modular and liked it a lot. 
simple circuit, fairly low parts count, neat sound.
best,
dave

"Tkacs, Ken" wrote:
>
> Along similar lines, I started building Craig Anderton's "Pulse Width
> Multiplier" circuit from an old issue of Polyphony. I got it 75% done when I
> started ordering & building MOTM stuff two months ago, so it's gathering
> dust right now. That's a "triangle or saw in/lots of juicy modulated pulses
> out" circuit.
>
This has been on my list of wants for quite a while. I remember someone
posting to synth-diy about building it and staying up all night playing
with the device.

As I remember, it was four comparators with three having inputs for
comparator level, the fourth fixed. You feed in a triangle and three
LFOs (or whatever). The outputs were xor'd in pairs these outputs
xor'd again. You had multiple taps for various xor outputs.

When you finish it I want to hear some samples.

Thomas

Yes, that's the one. I just Emailed the schemos to the Old Crow.

		-----Original Message-----
		From:	thudson@... [mailto:thudson@...]

		This has been on my list of wants for quite a while. I
remember someone
		posting to synth-diy about building it and staying up all
night playing
		with the device.

		As I remember, it was four comparators with three having
inputs for
		comparator level, the fourth fixed. You feed in a triangle
and three
		LFOs (or whatever). The outputs were xor'd in pairs these
outputs
		xor'd again. You had multiple taps for various xor outputs.

>
>Correct, the '120 sums the sub-octaves together.
>
>But *imagine* a "super-120" with
>
>a) individual outs
>b) VC phase for each suboctave
>c) VCA for each output
>;
Actually, I was imagining all that except for the phase as I got ready for
work this morning.
I for one think it sounds pretty damn cool.

Something else I sometimes consider is how to fit more EG's into less space.
I think about
the old Moog EG's--two knobs & a switch, which suits me fine, but I just
don't see any
appreciable space savings. oh well

tomr

>Nice module....hmmm.... ;)
>
>Paul S.
>
>