MOTM

I got this idea yesterday while relaxing and not thinking of anything in 
particular.  Why not publish a synth running in real time by streaming 
it from a server?  Radio stations can be tuned from the web, right?  A 
speech or concert can have a live webcast, no?  So why not a synth.  The 
audio output would be digitized and then encoded in real time to be 
streamed.

And here is the appeal:

I am an individual, working at home in my studio, who likes to create 
self-running patches.  I sometimes record with ProTools and a Digi001.  
But I am not really into recording.  Neither can I realistically get 
into performing live.  But I would like to let other people hear my 
synth.  Wouldn't it be great if I could publish it to the Internet, real 
time.  People could just tune in and listen for a while.  I wouldn't 
care if they recorded it.

How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?

-Richard Brewster

At 08:19 PM 4/12/2004 -0400, Richard Brewster wrote:
>How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?

There was a Japanese site running with a Moog continuous random sound 
generation.  I was looking into doing it myself, but got busy on other 
things.  I was looking at this software to 
"broadcast"  http://www.pirateradio.com/


~dave~

http://www.hylander.com
http://www.hylander.us

> How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?

It would be easy to do with this software, I think:
http://www.rogueamoeba.com/nicecast/

--Adam

Pirate Radio looks like a possibility.  I download the player.  The 
broadcast software is cheap too.  I guess it works by streaming up to 
their server, where people can tune in.  Thanks!

-Richard

Dave Hylander wrote:

> At 08:19 PM 4/12/2004 -0400, Richard Brewster wrote:
>
>> How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?
>
>
> There was a Japanese site running with a Moog continuous random sound 
> generation.  I was looking into doing it myself, but got busy on other 
> things.  I was looking at this software to "broadcast"  
> http://www.pirateradio.com/
>
>
> ~dave~
>
> http://www.hylander.com
> http://www.hylander.us
>

Unfortunately, I have Windows.  But thanks.

-Richard

Adam Schabtach wrote:

>>How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?
>>    
>>
>
>It would be easy to do with this software, I think:
>http://www.rogueamoeba.com/nicecast/
>
>--Adam
>
>
>
>  
>

When I had my 8-track studio in PDX I had a small FM transmitter hooked  
up to the console that would broadcast whatever was going through the  
main outputs. I think my broadcast radius was about 3 blocks  
however....

For webcasting the trick isn't the encoding as much as it is the  
bandwidth. Most home DSL has decent downstream but upstream bandwidth  
can be wanting, 200-500 Kbps or so. 2 or 3 listeners and your bandwidth  
is gone....

Anybody have access to a mirror? I'd love to stream from the studio  
here.

ad



On Apr 13, 2004, at 2:26 Uhr, Dave Hylander wrote:

> At 08:19 PM 4/12/2004 -0400, Richard Brewster wrote:
>> How crazy is this?  Has anybody done it that you know of?
>
> There was a Japanese site running with a Moog continuous random sound
> generation.  I was looking into doing it myself, but got busy on other
> things.  I was looking at this software to
> "broadcast"  http://www.pirateradio.com/
>
>
> ~dave~
>
> http://www.hylander.com
> http://www.hylander.us
>
>
>
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Speaking of self running patches, can you share a basic concept for 
doing this?  I have a pretty basic setup.  2 x VCO, VCA, EG, LFO plus 
several filters.  I also have the 120 S&H/Noise module.

- chris

On Apr 12, 2004, at 5:19 PM, Richard Brewster wrote:

> I got this idea yesterday while relaxing and not thinking of anything 
> in
>  particular.  Why not publish a synth running in real time by streaming
>  it from a server?  Radio stations can be tuned from the web, right?  A
>  speech or concert can have a live webcast, no?  So why not a synth.  
> The
>  audio output would be digitized and then encoded in real time to be
>  streamed.

I work within the following self-chosen limitations:  no keyboard, no 
MIDI, no sequencers.  The challenge is to generate interesting rhythmic 
patterns, melodies, chord progressions, and timbre changes without any 
of these traditional devices.  The basic tool for this is the clocked 
sample and hold.  But it needs taming if it's not to be overly chaotic.

You have the basics for a simple self-running patch.  Use your LFO 
square wave as a clock to the S&H, and also to trigger the EG.  Patch 
the S&H output to control the VCO frequencies.  Mix the VCOs through a 
filter into the VCA, controlled by the EG.  It would be nice to have a 
second EG on the filter frequency, too.  You'll get a random sequence of 
notes.  Very basic, but the heart of a self-running patch.  If the LFO 
has voltage control, try controlling it with the S&H output also, to get 
a chaotic rhythm.  If you use a second LFO as input to the S&H instead 
of noise, you can produce repeating patterns.  To make this very musical 
requires more modules.   Instead of a regular or chaotic beat, you can 
rig up some syncopation.  John Loffink posted a patch a while back that 
uses the MOTM 700 for this.  I have that patched up right now in fact.  
If you want scale tones, you will need a quantizer.  The Blacet Miniwave 
does a nice job here.  For complex chords, you will need several sample 
and holds or a special purpose module such as Ken Stone's Infinite 
Melody, which I personally use a lot.  The IM has four stepped outputs.  
I will typically run two of these through two Miniwaves to get two 
quantized CVs, and then shift-sample them to produce 4 CVs to drive 4 
VCOs.  That can produce very nice complex chord progressions.  I often 
use the IM outputs directly, too, without quantizing.  The final touches 
involve timbre changes driven by LFOs, EGs, or more random sources.  
When I patch up somehing like this, it usually takes a while, fiddling 
with all the knobs and switches, to get it into a sweet spot.  But the 
result often amuses and amazes me.

-Richard Brewster

Chris Walcott wrote:

>Speaking of self running patches, can you share a basic concept for 
>doing this?  I have a pretty basic setup.  2 x VCO, VCA, EG, LFO plus 
>several filters.  I also have the 120 S&H/Noise module.
>
>- chris
>
>On Apr 12, 2004, at 5:19 PM, Richard Brewster wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I got this idea yesterday while relaxing and not thinking of anything 
>>in
>> particular.  Why not publish a synth running in real time by streaming
>> it from a server?  Radio stations can be tuned from the web, right?  A
>> speech or concert can have a live webcast, no?  So why not a synth.  
>>The
>> audio output would be digitized and then encoded in real time to be
>> streamed.
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

Richard has summed this up quite nicely. I've found that a S&H alone 
is not enough to get "controlled chaos" with interesting patterns. I 
typically use a bunch of CV processors to generate events in response 
to a specific range of control voltage. The best tools I've found, 
thus far, are:

1. A bunch of MOTM-320 LFOs all feeding back into each other. This 
provides random voltages that go from .01 Hz to 3KHz without any 
discernable pattern or fixed length of time at any frequency. The 
pulse outputs generate random triggers. Have a listen to my "two 
drunk robots" patch.

2. A miniwave or two (or four) to quantize some of the random 
voltages. Miniwave is also good for generating events within a 
specific voltage range (using MARF discriminator in Socket Rocket 
PROM).

3. A couple of MOTM-700s to dynamically reconfigure your random event 
generators while they're running. I can't live without those.

4. A few MOTM-830 or Oakley multimix for (statically) combining 
several sources, adding offsets, and scaling down the chaos.

5. Some DC-coupled VCAs to dynamically scale the random sources.

6. And of course some EGs, MOTM-800s or Encore UEGs, to shape those 
square waves into something a little more interesting.

Unfortunately, it does require quite a bit of hardware to get the 
really interesting patterns going. But it's a blast. Patch and 
fiddle, patch and fiddle, that's where the magic happens.

At 8:10 PM -0400 2004/04/13, Richard Brewster wrote:

>I work within the following self-chosen limitations:  no keyboard, no
>MIDI, no sequencers.  The challenge is to generate interesting rhythmic
>patterns, melodies, chord progressions, and timbre changes without any
>of these traditional devices.  The basic tool for this is the clocked
>sample and hold.  But it needs taming if it's not to be overly chaotic.
>
>You have the basics for a simple self-running patch.  Use your LFO
>square wave as a clock to the S&H, and also to trigger the EG.  Patch
>the S&H output to control the VCO frequencies.  Mix the VCOs through a
>filter into the VCA, controlled by the EG.  It would be nice to have a
>second EG on the filter frequency, too.  You'll get a random sequence of
>notes.  Very basic, but the heart of a self-running patch.  If the LFO
>has voltage control, try controlling it with the S&H output also, to get
>a chaotic rhythm.  If you use a second LFO as input to the S&H instead
>of noise, you can produce repeating patterns.  To make this very musical
>requires more modules.   Instead of a regular or chaotic beat, you can
>rig up some syncopation.  John Loffink posted a patch a while back that
>uses the MOTM 700 for this.  I have that patched up right now in fact. 
>If you want scale tones, you will need a quantizer.  The Blacet Miniwave
>does a nice job here.  For complex chords, you will need several sample
>and holds or a special purpose module such as Ken Stone's Infinite
>Melody, which I personally use a lot.  The IM has four stepped outputs. 
>I will typically run two of these through two Miniwaves to get two
>quantized CVs, and then shift-sample them to produce 4 CVs to drive 4
>VCOs.  That can produce very nice complex chord progressions.  I often
>use the IM outputs directly, too, without quantizing.  The final touches
>involve timbre changes driven by LFOs, EGs, or more random sources. 
>When I patch up somehing like this, it usually takes a while, fiddling
>with all the knobs and switches, to get it into a sweet spot.  But the
>result often amuses and amazes me.
>

> I work within the following self-chosen limitations:  no keyboard, no
> MIDI, no sequencers.

Do it with no synths, either, and I'll be impressed. ;-)

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley             "Your mistletoe is no match for my T.O.W. missile!"
Synthcom Systems, Inc.   - Santabot - Futurama
ICQ #29402898

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> Richard has summed this up quite nicely. I've found that a S&H alone
> is not enough to get "controlled chaos" with interesting patterns.

My experiences are consistent with Richard's and Scott's (BTW Scott has a
very nice cd with such ideas expressed on it).  Some other modules that I
think assist with this process are voltage controllable (vc) dividers,
vc-adsrs, vc mixers, analog shift registers, analog logic modules (e.g.,
AND, NAND, ...), and sequential switches.  Not mentioned, but that also
adds to dynamics in patterns, are different modules of the same type.  For
example, not all lfo's produce exactly the same waveforms.  Not all
oscillators produce the same waveforms (so variations on FM are
possible). All modules do  not process cv's the same way.  The more vc of
module parameters, the more dynamic a set of interacting patches can be.

>
> 1. A bunch of MOTM-320 LFOs all feeding back into each other. This
> provides random voltages

I'm not convinced that these would be "actually" random.  Unless there are
anamolies or instabilities in the circuits, these should be patterned,
though the time frame required for the pattern to repeat may be 'long'.

>
> 2. A miniwave or two (or four) to quantize some of the random
> voltages. Miniwave is also good for generating events within a
> specific voltage range (using MARF discriminator in Socket Rocket
> PROM).
I'm not familiar with this miniwave PROM.  Is this available somewhere?
Jeff

Thanks all for the tips.  The 700 was one of those modules that I've 
been pondering for awhile now and I think I'm going to have to get one 
soon.  I'm also working on getting all the parts together to build a 
miniwave.

I suppose another thing that you can do is feed an LFO with a beat 
clock that would set a tempo for the patch.  Lots of possibilities!

- chris

On Apr 13, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> Richard has summed this up quite nicely. I've found that a S&H alone
>  is not enough to get "controlled chaos" with interesting patterns. I
>  typically use a bunch of CV processors to generate events in response
>  to a specific range of control voltage. The best tools I've found,
>  thus far, are:

And if you want more inharmonic stuff, don't ignore patching the VCOs 
to each other.  In fact, you can create a self-running patch with 
just two VCOs cross-modulating.  Same idea applies to your filters: 
get them to self-oscillate then cross-modulate with another filter or 
VCO or both.  Add the 101 PINK out to FM2 of one of the filters for 
further fun.

Many many many possibilities with your setup!

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Jeffrey Pontius <jpont@k...> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, Scott Juskiw wrote:
> 
> > Richard has summed this up quite nicely. I've found that a S&H 
alone
> > is not enough to get "controlled chaos" with interesting patterns.
> 
> My experiences are consistent with Richard's and Scott's (BTW Scott 
has a
> very nice cd with such ideas expressed on it).  Some other modules 
that I
> think assist with this process are voltage controllable (vc) 
dividers,
> vc-adsrs, vc mixers, analog shift registers, analog logic modules 
(e.g.,
> AND, NAND, ...), and sequential switches.  Not mentioned, but that 
also
> adds to dynamics in patterns, are different modules of the same 
type.  For
> example, not all lfo's produce exactly the same waveforms.  Not all
> oscillators produce the same waveforms (so variations on FM are
> possible). All modules do  not process cv's the same way.  The more 
vc of
> module parameters, the more dynamic a set of interacting patches 
can be.
> 
> >
> > 1. A bunch of MOTM-320 LFOs all feeding back into each other. This
> > provides random voltages
> 
> I'm not convinced that these would be "actually" random.  Unless 
there are
> anamolies or instabilities in the circuits, these should be 
patterned,
> though the time frame required for the pattern to repeat may 
be 'long'.
> 
> >
> > 2. A miniwave or two (or four) to quantize some of the random
> > voltages. Miniwave is also good for generating events within a
> > specific voltage range (using MARF discriminator in Socket Rocket
> > PROM).
> I'm not familiar with this miniwave PROM.  Is this available 
somewhere?
> Jeff

Useful comment all around.  One that I didn't hear mentioned is using 
*syncable* LFOs, like the MOTM 320.

-Richard Brewster

Chris Walcott wrote:

>Thanks all for the tips.  The 700 was one of those modules that I've 
>been pondering for awhile now and I think I'm going to have to get one 
>soon.  I'm also working on getting all the parts together to build a 
>miniwave.
>
>I suppose another thing that you can do is feed an LFO with a beat 
>clock that would set a tempo for the patch.  Lots of possibilities!
>
>- chris
>
>On Apr 13, 2004, at 7:21 PM, Scott Juskiw wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Richard has summed this up quite nicely. I've found that a S&H alone
>> is not enough to get "controlled chaos" with interesting patterns. I
>> typically use a bunch of CV processors to generate events in response
>> to a specific range of control voltage. The best tools I've found,
>> thus far, are:
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>  
>

>  > 2. A miniwave or two (or four) to quantize some of the random
>>  voltages. Miniwave is also good for generating events within a
>>  specific voltage range (using MARF discriminator in Socket Rocket
>>  PROM).
>I'm not familiar with this miniwave PROM.  Is this available somewhere?

It's available from www.blacet.com, part number is #MWSR.