MOTM

Hi,

I just finished my first cabinet (a wooden 19" case, 16 HE 
high, 10 inch deep), and would like to install the PowerOne 
PSU's from my 900 and 950 kits directly in the cabinet.

Any suggestions/tips? For example, is heat a problem when 
mounting the PSU directly on the wood? Or should I use 
spacers? 

My plan is to mount a power strip in the cabinet, place both 
PSUs in the cabinet, and connect both of them with the 
power strip using standard power cables. I'll also power my 
little MCV from that strip.

Then one cable is leaving the cabinet (the one from the 
strip) and this will be connected with another strip which 
has a switch, so that I can switch on/off the whole modular 
in one go. A future second cabinet will end up in that same 
switched power strip.

Good? Bad?

- Robert

Use spacers off the wood. They do not need to be very tall, only 2mm or so is
needed.

Do NOT connect 1 power strip into another powerstrip, where *both* have 'surge
protection' (ie MOVs). This is a VERY BAD IDEA (my long discussion is in the
archives). If you can't find a power strip without surge protectors, they you
have to find a way so that both are individually connected to the AC mains.

Paul S>

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 14:19, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> Use spacers off the wood. They do not need to be very
> tall, only 2mm or so is needed.

OK.

>
> Do NOT connect 1 power strip into another powerstrip,
> where *both* have 'surge protection' (ie MOVs). This is a
> VERY BAD IDEA (my long discussion is in the archives). If
> you can't find a power strip without surge protectors,
> they you have to find a way so that both are individually
> connected to the AC mains.

Powerstrips with surge protection are rare here, so that 
problem won't happen. ;)  I hoped to find a strip with 
surge protection to replace the fuse in the 900 and 950 
front panel connector. Will that be okay, or is that even 
*needed*?

- Robert

> Powerstrips with surge protection are rare here, so that
> problem won't happen. ;)  I hoped to find a strip with
> surge protection to replace the fuse in the 900 and 950
> front panel connector. Will that be okay, or is that even
> *needed*?

Are you trying to give me a *heart attack* so early in the day?

NO NO NO!

The fuse had *absolutely nothing* to do with AC power surges (which are 95%
caused by lightning). The fuse is for a failed power supply (i.e. the Power One
itself failing) and causing the fuse to blow, which prevents your rack from
*catching on fire*.

Paul S.

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 14:59, Paul Schreiber wrote:
> > Powerstrips with surge protection are rare here, so
> > that problem won't happen. ;)  I hoped to find a strip
> > with surge protection to replace the fuse in the 900
> > and 950 front panel connector. Will that be okay, or is
> > that even *needed*?
>
> Are you trying to give me a *heart attack* so early in
> the day?

Well at least I saved you a couple of Dr. Peppers. 

>
> NO NO NO!
>
> The fuse had *absolutely nothing* to do with AC power
> surges (which are 95% caused by lightning). The fuse is
> for a failed power supply (i.e. the Power One itself
> failing) and causing the fuse to blow, which prevents
> your rack from *catching on fire*.

I see! Okay, the fuse stays in.  ;)
I should stick to programming, I know...
Thanks, and sorry for the shock.

- Rovert

>> Do NOT connect 1 power strip into another powerstrip,
>> where *both* have 'surge protection' (ie MOVs). This is a
>> VERY BAD IDEA (my long discussion is in the archives). If
>> you can't find a power strip without surge protectors,
>> they you have to find a way so that both are individually
>> connected to the AC mains.
>
> Powerstrips with surge protection are rare here, so that
> problem won't happen. ;)  I hoped to find a strip with
> surge protection to replace the fuse in the 900 and 950
> front panel connector. Will that be okay, or is that even
> *needed*?

Ack! Don't do this! Without a fuse if your power supply fails or a 
module shorts your rack starts drawing as much current as the house 
wiring can provide, which effectively turns your rack into a nice 
little space heater!

As I understand it a surge protector handles over voltage. A fuse 
handles over current draw.

--mikes

On Wednesday 14 January 2004 18:53, Mike Estee wrote:

> Ack! Don't do this! Without a fuse if your power supply
> fails or a module shorts your rack starts drawing as much
> current as the house wiring can provide, which
> effectively turns your rack into a nice little space
> heater!
>
> As I understand it a surge protector handles over
> voltage. A fuse handles over current draw.

Thanks for the warning. I threatened the existance of this 
whole community by attacking Paul's health with this 
question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm 
stupid. ;)

- Robert

On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:05 AM, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

> On Wednesday 14 January 2004 18:53, Mike Estee wrote:
>
>> Ack! Don't do this! Without a fuse if your power supply
>> fails or a module shorts your rack starts drawing as much
>> current as the house wiring can provide, which
>> effectively turns your rack into a nice little space
>> heater!
>>
>> As I understand it a surge protector handles over
>> voltage. A fuse handles over current draw.
>
> Thanks for the warning. I threatened the existance of this
> whole community by attacking Paul's health with this
> question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm
> stupid. ;)

I wouldn't go that far, how about just uninformed? ^_^ I'm still 
building a mental model about how this whole "electricity" thing works 
too. It's very strange to a software engineer...

--mikes

> > question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm
> > stupid. ;)
> I wouldn't go that far, how about just uninformed? ^_^ I'm still
> building a mental model about how this whole "electricity" thing works
> too. It's very strange to a software engineer...

My father taught me electronics at a very early age and the best analogy
at the time was this:

Voltage    = How fast the water is flowing
Current    = How much water is flowing
Resistance = Anything that restricts the flow

Personally I think that basic electricity fundamentals should be taught to
everyone. Not that they need to deal with signal integrity, but basic
mechanics of power is important in every day life. Most people don't
realize, for example, that water is a POOR conductor of electricity even
with impurities. One statement I've seen lately was a partner of mine shut
off a pinball machine that was plugged in to an extension cord because the
"extension cord was wet" instead of unplugging the extension cord. Simple,
basic knowledge of power could contribute to safety in everyone.

-->Neil

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Bradley             "Your mistletoe is no match for my T.O.W. missile!"
Synthcom Systems, Inc.   - Santabot - Futurama
ICQ #29402898

On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Neil Bradley wrote:

>>> question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm
>>> stupid. ;)
>> I wouldn't go that far, how about just uninformed? ^_^ I'm still
>> building a mental model about how this whole "electricity" thing works
>> too. It's very strange to a software engineer...
>
> My father taught me electronics at a very early age and the best 
> analogy
> at the time was this:
>
> Voltage    = How fast the water is flowing
> Current    = How much water is flowing
> Resistance = Anything that restricts the flow

yeah, I've heard that one. it breaks down rapidly as soon as you start 
to do anything complex though. i personally think that analogy is a 
barrier to understanding single flow, and should be the first thing one 
abandons when trying to learn this stuff "for real."

i'm finding there's no substitute for experimentation, and an 
oscilloscope ;) my understanding of all this grew ten fold after I 
could watch the circuits do their thing in a scope. (for fun stick a 
scope in the output of a 48Khz virtual analog synth and compare a 
square wave at 8khz to an 8khz square from the motm ;) ) i'm probably 
learning all this stuff in a rather unorthodox manner as well. being a 
software engineer I've started at the digital end of the spectrum, and 
as a problem arises in the analog domain (signal integrity, etc) I 
learn about how to fix the problem, what causes it, and of course, how 
to diagnose it ;)

Hey more experienced people, other than the Art of Electronics, what 
would you folks recommend for someone wanting to learn more about 
analog electronics? I know you're lurking out there ^_^

--mikes

For learning basic electronics, Radio Shack has (had?) a series of 
mini-books that were pretty cool.  Also, for stuff targeted at music 
electronics, there nothing like Electronotes, the early ones.  
Finally, Projects for Guitarists is really great and you can get the 
PCBs (and the book) from PAIA.

Mike

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Mike Estee <mikest@a...> wrote:
> 
> On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Neil Bradley wrote:
> 
> >>> question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm
> >>> stupid. ;)
> >> I wouldn't go that far, how about just uninformed? ^_^ I'm still
> >> building a mental model about how this whole "electricity" 
thing works
> >> too. It's very strange to a software engineer...
> >
> > My father taught me electronics at a very early age and the best 
> > analogy
> > at the time was this:
> >
> > Voltage    = How fast the water is flowing
> > Current    = How much water is flowing
> > Resistance = Anything that restricts the flow
> 
> yeah, I've heard that one. it breaks down rapidly as soon as you 
start 
> to do anything complex though. i personally think that analogy is 
a 
> barrier to understanding single flow, and should be the first 
thing one 
> abandons when trying to learn this stuff "for real."
> 
> i'm finding there's no substitute for experimentation, and an 
> oscilloscope ;) my understanding of all this grew ten fold after I 
> could watch the circuits do their thing in a scope. (for fun stick 
a 
> scope in the output of a 48Khz virtual analog synth and compare a 
> square wave at 8khz to an 8khz square from the motm ;) ) i'm 
probably 
> learning all this stuff in a rather unorthodox manner as well. 
being a 
> software engineer I've started at the digital end of the spectrum, 
and 
> as a problem arises in the analog domain (signal integrity, etc) I 
> learn about how to fix the problem, what causes it, and of course, 
how 
> to diagnose it ;)
> 
> Hey more experienced people, other than the Art of Electronics, 
what 

> would you folks recommend for someone wanting to learn more about 
> analog electronics? I know you're lurking out there ^_^
> 
> --mikes

BTW, that was posted by someone who doesn't know shite about 
electronics... :)

--- In motm@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Marsh" <mmarsh@w...> wrote:
> For learning basic electronics, Radio Shack has (had?) a series of 
> mini-books that were pretty cool.  Also, for stuff targeted at 
music 
> electronics, there nothing like Electronotes, the early ones.  
> Finally, Projects for Guitarists is really great and you can get 
the 
> PCBs (and the book) from PAIA.
> 
> Mike
> 
> --- In motm@yahoogroups.com, Mike Estee <mikest@a...> wrote:
> > 
> > On Jan 14, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Neil Bradley wrote:
> > 
> > >>> question. Good thing I'm smart enough to admit I'm
> > >>> stupid. ;)
> > >> I wouldn't go that far, how about just uninformed? ^_^ I'm 
still
> > >> building a mental model about how this whole "electricity" 
> thing works
> > >> too. It's very strange to a software engineer...
> > >
> > > My father taught me electronics at a very early age and the 
best 
> > > analogy
> > > at the time was this:
> > >
> > > Voltage    = How fast the water is flowing
> > > Current    = How much water is flowing
> > > Resistance = Anything that restricts the flow
> > 
> > yeah, I've heard that one. it breaks down rapidly as soon as you 
> start 
> > to do anything complex though. i personally think that analogy 
is 
> a 
> > barrier to understanding single flow, and should be the first 
> thing one 
> > abandons when trying to learn this stuff "for real."
> > 
> > i'm finding there's no substitute for experimentation, and an 
> > oscilloscope ;) my understanding of all this grew ten fold after 
I 
> > could watch the circuits do their thing in a scope. (for fun 
stick 
> a 
> > scope in the output of a 48Khz virtual analog synth and compare 
a 
> > square wave at 8khz to an 8khz square from the motm ;) ) i'm 
> probably 
> > learning all this stuff in a rather unorthodox manner as well. 
> being a 
> > software engineer I've started at the digital end of the 
spectrum, 
> and 
> > as a problem arises in the analog domain (signal integrity, etc) 
I 
> > learn about how to fix the problem, what causes it, and of 
course, 
> how 
> > to diagnose it ;)
> > 
> > Hey more experienced people, other than the Art of Electronics, 
> what 
> > would you folks recommend for someone wanting to learn more 
about 

> > analog electronics? I know you're lurking out there ^_^
> > 
> > --mikes

On Thursday 15 January 2004 00:56, J. Larry Hendry wrote:

> Depends on the voltage and how much conduction bothers
> you. At several hundred volts, the conduction is good
> enough to kill you.

Ah, I feel better already. :)

One more reason to study electronics. I want to know what's 
going on there behind those pretty panels. I'd like to be 
able to actually understand Paul's explanation of the 
modules I built. Wonder how long that will take. :(

- Robert

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Bradley <nb@...>
> Voltage    = How fast the water is flowing

I'd change that one to = What is the water pressure

> Most people don't realize, for example, that water is a POOR conductor of
electricity even with impurities.

Depends on the voltage and how much conduction bothers you. At several
hundred volts, the conduction is good enough to kill you.

LH

Ditto the Electronotes.  EN contains all levels of explanation of 
electronics, from basic Ohm's Law to calculus.  And it's in the context 
of modular synthesizers and the physics and perception of sound.  
Essential reference material for serious synth DIY folks.  And the 
entire collection fits neatly into just nine three-inch binders :).  I 
can sit and browse through my EN collection for hours.

-Richard Brewster

Mike Marsh wrote:

>For learning basic electronics, Radio Shack has (had?) a series of 
>mini-books that were pretty cool.  Also, for stuff targeted at music 
>electronics, there nothing like Electronotes, the early ones.  
>Finally, Projects for Guitarists is really great and you can get the 
>PCBs (and the book) from PAIA.
>
>Mike
>
>  
>

On Thursday 15 January 2004 01:33, Richard Brewster wrote:
> Ditto the Electronotes.  EN contains all levels of
> explanation of electronics, from basic Ohm's Law to
> calculus.  And it's in the context of modular
> synthesizers and the physics and perception of sound.
> Essential reference material for serious synth DIY folks.
>  And the entire collection fits neatly into just nine
> three-inch binders :).  I can sit and browse through my
> EN collection for hours.

Are these still for sale, the early ones?

I too highly recommend Electronotes.  I have only selected issues but 
what I have is impressive.  (I actually got them when they were first 
issued.  That makes me a real old guy!)  I've never posed the 
question, but why on earth hasn't Electronotes been turned into a PDF 
document and distributed on a $0.22 CD instead of killing a small 
tree for the whole lot?  I would love to have the entire set but I 
would have to scan them into PDFs and then recycle the paper.  Since 
that is such an obvious question I must have missed something along 
the way... feel free to flame me for not knowing about the obvious 
<insert whatever it is that I don't know that is obvious to everyone 
but me>

Cheers!
Tom Farrand

At 8:45 AM +0100 2004/01/15, Robert van der Kamp wrote:
>On Thursday 15 January 2004 01:33, Richard Brewster wrote:
>>  Ditto the Electronotes.  EN contains all levels of
>>  explanation of electronics, from basic Ohm's Law to
>>  calculus.  And it's in the context of modular
>>  synthesizers and the physics and perception of sound.
>>  Essential reference material for serious synth DIY folks.
>>   And the entire collection fits neatly into just nine
>>  three-inch binders :).  I can sit and browse through my
>>  EN collection for hours.
>
>Are these still for sale, the early ones?

You can still get Electronotes:

http://electronotes.netfirms.com/

On Thursday 15 January 2004 18:23, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> You can still get Electronotes:
>
> http://electronotes.netfirms.com/

Hey, nice! And he still has all of the older stuff, 
impressive.

So the would those first 9 volumes for $70 cover the basic 
info that I so much need?

- Robert

On Jan 14, 2004, at 11:45 PM, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

> On Thursday 15 January 2004 01:33, Richard Brewster wrote:
>> Ditto the Electronotes.  EN contains all levels of
>> explanation of electronics, from basic Ohm's Law to
>> calculus.  And it's in the context of modular
>> synthesizers and the physics and perception of sound.
>> Essential reference material for serious synth DIY folks.
>>  And the entire collection fits neatly into just nine
>> three-inch binders :).  I can sit and browse through my
>> EN collection for hours.
>
> Are these still for sale, the early ones?

Yes. I recently bought the whole set ($300) from there website. It's 
kinda of a pain as it comes unbound though. I keep meaning to find a 
binder and have them put into book form. The box is really heavy too, 
so shipping is slow and expensive.

--mikes